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31-05-2018, 13:58   #31
GGTrek
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Are you able to expense IPOA membership? If all LL were a member of a decent organization at least we would have some clout behind us. At the moment, the only way i see this happening is when a REIT get strong enough they will do the heavy hitting for us and the ironic thing is that is what tenants want.
Yes you are able to expense IPOA membership, unfortunately having membership does not mean you will be involved in the decision making process.
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31-05-2018, 14:20   #32
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The IPOA is dominated by old style pre-63 landlords. They are too mean to take cases against legislation.
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31-05-2018, 14:34   #33
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The IPOA is dominated by old style pre-63 landlords. They are too mean to take cases against legislation.
To be fair, I think there are legal difficulties in taking such a case. There is a concept in Irish law called "Maintenance and Champerty". Excuse my uneducated explanation of this but it basically stops someone taking a case in which they do not have a direct interest. So the IPOA cannot take a test case for one of their members, or fund one of their members to take a test case.
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31-05-2018, 14:42   #34
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To be fair, I think there are legal difficulties in taking such a case. There is a concept in Irish law called "Maintenance and Champerty". Excuse my uneducated explanation of this but it basically stops someone taking a case in which they do not have a direct interest. So the IPOA cannot take a test case for one of their members, or fund one of their members to take a test case.
It is accepted that members of an association can fund one of their members in a case. likewise a family member can fund the case of another. maintenance and champerty is not the reason for not taking a case. it is pure meanness.
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31-05-2018, 23:24   #35
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So the govvie will propose his first bill in June and a second one in the Autumn, again the rules of the game are being changed twice in the same year and they are all against landlords.
Is there any indication that the situation re landlords in receipt of below market rents due to RPZ restrictions might be addressed in either of the pending government bills?
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31-05-2018, 23:26   #36
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So the govvie will propose his first bill in June and a second one in the Autumn, again the rules of the game are being changed twice in the same year and they are all against landlords.
Is there any indication that the situation re landlords in receipt of below market rents due to RPZ restrictions might be addressed in either of the pending government bills?
None
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31-05-2018, 23:29   #37
GGTrek
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To be fair, I think there are legal difficulties in taking such a case.  There is a concept in Irish law called "Maintenance and Champerty".  Excuse my uneducated explanation of this but it basically stops someone taking a case in which they do not have a direct interest.  So the IPOA cannot take a test case for one of their members, or fund one of their members to take a test case.
It is accepted that members of an association can fund one of their members in a case. likewise a family member can fund the case of another. maintenance and champerty is not the reason for not taking a case. it is pure meanness.
Could not agree more, the IPOA is doing a massive disservice to landlords in Ireland. If they just said we are looking for help for a member to mount a legal challenge to the RTA 2016 I would have gladly helped financially. As I said before, it is run like a senior citizens club.
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31-05-2018, 23:48   #38
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None
Obviously it’s not a headline issue like others being discussed here, but it was at least acknowledged in the outcome of the public consultation re the review of the rent predictability measure. Maybe some hope for those ll’s caught in below market rent situations who will be forced to sell up if it’s not addressed.
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01-06-2018, 13:04   #39
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None
Obviously it’s not a headline issue like others being discussed here, but it was at least acknowledged in the outcome of the public consultation re the review of the rent predictability measure. Maybe some hope for those ll’s caught in below market rent situations who will be forced to sell up if it’s not addressed.
Please read the full debate and you will see that there is no mention at all about it. Just some words thrown out about high taxation of landlords but with no legislative action about it. Some TD actually said he wants rents halved by law now!
Do you realize that the majority of TDs want small landlords out? It was actually well explained by the minister.
Do not expect anything positive for landlords to come out from the Dail. The only solution for landlords is a very expensive legal challenge that will finally stop any further action from these populist TDs. The communists in Ireland actually want to change the constitution to restrict (read almost abolish) private property rights, problem is that in a referendum they will probably loose since 80% of the Irish people own at least a property.
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07-07-2018, 19:25   #40
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Does anyone know how long this bill would take to enact if there are no objections or issues. I know it has different stages and multiple things can slow it down. But if no issues roughly how long does it take
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07-07-2018, 22:52   #41
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Does anyone know how long this bill would take to enact if there are no objections or issues. I know it has different stages and multiple things can slow it down. But if no issues roughly how long does it take
The govvie is taking forward this bill at the moment:
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/press-centre/press-releases/20180611-rights-of-tenants-homeless-on-housing-committee-agenda/
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2018/5/
https://whitneymoore.ie/2018/06/21/residential-tenancies-amendment-bill-2018-the-implications-for-landlords/

And another round of BS about standards where the Threshold has been called but no landlords association:
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/press-centre/press-releases/20180703-housing-committee-to-discuss-standards-in-rental-sector/

In my opinion the govvie will not be able to pass any legislation before the summer break. After that it is anybody's guess, really depends on political will.
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08-07-2018, 17:14   #42
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The Joint Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government has conducted per-legislative scrutiny on the heads of government's new bill. The debates are available here:

Session with the RTB:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates.../2018-06-12/2/

Session with Threshold, IPOA and USI:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates.../2018-06-14/3/


This is the government bill. None of the other bills have any hope of becoming law, although they can influence government thinking. Some of the measures in the government bill were lifted from the Soc Dems bill earlier in the year. The Minister has spoken of his desire to have two residential tenancies bills this year, although the time-frame is very tight. The second may focus on a reworked deposit protection scheme.

Last edited by subrosa; 08-07-2018 at 17:20.
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08-07-2018, 21:10   #43
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The Joint Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government has conducted per-legislative scrutiny on the heads of government's new bill. The debates are available here:

Session with the RTB:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates.../2018-06-12/2/

Session with Threshold, IPOA and USI:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates.../2018-06-14/3/


This is the government bill. None of the other bills have any hope of becoming law, although they can influence government thinking. Some of the measures in the government bill were lifted from the Soc Dems bill earlier in the year. The Minister has spoken of his desire to have two residential tenancies bills this year, although the time-frame is very tight. The second may focus on a reworked deposit protection scheme.
Thank you verymuch. Have you got any link to the proposed legislation they discussed in the debates? They were referring to head number X, head number Y, ... It was very confusing to read the debate without seeing theactual proposals.

Some parts I managed to understand are really scary: like anonymous complaints at the RTB against landlords (but not against tenants). This reminds me of the good old fascist/communist tradition. Some of the people in the committee are from the hard left and not much use listening to them, but when the words come from the head of the RTB, things become serious. It looks like another massive anti-landlord legislation that will further reduce supply as the IPOA respresentative pointed out and was almost completely ignored by the committee who ignored the fact that you cannot force people to be landlords and landlords do not have a duty of social care of their tenants.
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09-07-2018, 00:43   #44
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They brought up some interesting points in the article.

For one I would love it if there was a dispute with rent arrears, the tenant would mandatorily have to provide the rent to the RTB if they wanted to appeal a case and bring the paid rent up to the pro rata amount. At least that way the tenant has some skin the the game so that if they loose their appeal, it is given to the ll.

Another interesting point is that they are looking for tenants to support RTB since they are the people receiving the protection.i wish the tenant had to pay full or at least half of the cost of a registration since they do not provide any type of real protection to ll.

Is it true that for every 3 rental properties, one is bought as a btl again?

I do believe accidental ll should be pushed out of the market(if they can, or at least give it to an agency that can manage the house properly).

How can reits get away with not paying any tax while the vast majority of ll pay 53pc. I wish all profit incl reits were taxes evenly. Maybe at amount of 40 or whatever the equivalent is when you account for reits

I also found it interesting that. They would like the IPOA to receiving funding from RTB or state funding to “professionalize” ll. It’s an interesting viewpoint on the matter.

Likewise, they are also talking about being in criminal sanctions against ll. They brought up a very valid point that why don’t criminal sanctions also come in against non rent paying tenants. At least that way it is fair to both sides. Don’t get me wrong, I would prefer they don’t bring this in but at least it’s fair to both sides.

Lastly, although it makes complete sense for one body to be unified to deal with issues, I would be seriously worried if everything was left to the RTB on its current state. It is already understaffed to Cope with existing demand for their services.
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09-07-2018, 02:42   #45
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REITs are required to pay out 90% of their income to shareholders, which are taxed at the top marginal tax rate for most.

The government get more out of every euro they make than they would a normal limited company.
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