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New Tesco coming to Swords R125

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    #62
    celticbest
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭celticbest


    Thought I give this thread a bump to see if there is has been any process made on planning permission.


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    #63
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    permission granted. but unwanted!


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    #64
    celticbest
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭celticbest


    peteb2 wrote: »
    permission granted. but unwanted!

    Excellent, it defo is wanted, this will more or less make Swords a stand alone town, great news!


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    #65
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    Where do you live CelticBEst? I live right beside it. alledgedly the people who need it according to the planning application because I dont want to have to go as far as the Pavilions.

    How does the arrival of Tesco signify Swords has made it? In a 5 mile radius of the main street there is:
    Lidl
    Dunnes
    Super Valu
    Superquinn
    JC's
    Tesco Express

    Don't think we really need another!


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    #66
    celticbest
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭celticbest


    peteb2 wrote: »
    How does the arrival of Tesco signify Swords has made it? In a 5 mile radius of the main street there is:
    Lidl
    Dunnes
    Super Valu
    Superquinn
    JC's
    Tesco Express

    Don't think we really need another!

    I'm up in Applewood and would have loved if Tesco had moved into the old Motorola building, it would have been Ideal.

    Lidl = small
    Dunnes = crap range
    Super Valu = small & crap range
    Superquinn = worst shop in Ireland
    JC's = only good for offers & meat
    Tesco Express = very badly stocked

    If the new Tesco is on a par with Clear Water or Clarehall in size it will be a welcome addition to Swords IMHO.

    People in Swords seem to love a good moan about a new store being opened in there area, look at the Lidl thread and the hype that was built up about not being able to move along the Rathbeale road after it opened, this lasted for a day or two & the hype died off quick enough......

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055871244&page=10


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    #67
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    No. People don't. They are concerned with traffic implications etc. That LIDL has nothing on what the Tesco's will be. But you will find a lot of people down my way are familiar with the half-arsed approach the developer in question tend to take. And the council's half-arsed approach in making sure all is ok. I'll draw your attention to the link road mentioned in this post as exhibit A.

    I think someone said that the Co Co got 500k towards the Metro North costs - Exhibit B.

    The fact that no co co wants to be the one seen to turn down jobs in this climate - Exhibit C.

    Also the developer in question has plenty of other sites that have plenty of vacant units on them. No reason it couldnt have gone there.


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    #68
    loveisdivine
    Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭loveisdivine


    This is bad news for me too. Frankly I think anyone that claims to "need" another grocery store in Swords is just lazy. Peteb2 has already mentioned the shops we currently have. If those shops are not to your liking then clarehall is only 10 minutes away.

    I mean 6 grocery stores and a seventh very large one only 10 minutes away! How could there possibly be a need for more?


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    #69
    celticbest
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭celticbest


    loveisdivine wrote: »
    This is bad news for me too. Frankly I think anyone that claims to "need" another grocery store in Swords is just lazy. Peteb2 has already mentioned the shops we currently have. If those shops are not to your liking then clarehall is only 10 minutes away.

    I mean 6 grocery stores and a seventh very large one only 10 minutes away! How could there possibly be a need for more?

    Swords is "unofficially" the largest Town in Ireland with a Population of 42,738, it you take in the Greater Swords area the Population increases to 60,583, compare this to the next Largest Town, Drogheda - Pop. 38,578 and you can see the difference in amenities available in Swords.

    In Drogheda you have,
    2 Lidl's,
    2 Aldi's
    Drogheda Town Centre
    Laurence Town Centre
    Scotch Hall
    Drogheda Retail Park
    M1 Retail Park
    Tesco's Extra.

    Swords,
    1 Lidl
    The Pavilions
    J.C's
    Airside

    So the answer to your question is the Pop. of Swords dictates it as a requirement.

    As a Town Swords is vastly under developed when it comes to Retail v Population.
    Swords (a self-contained town outside Dublin's city limits) has developed into the largest town in Ireland. The town's population boom began in the 1970s with the construction of the sprawling Rivervalley Estate, Ireland's largest private housing development, ahead of Kilnamanagh Estate in Tallaght North, and continued during the 1990s and 2000s, with many new residents moving to the area due to its proximity to their work at Dublin Airport. Swords is accessed by the R132 and the M1 motorway.

    At the 2011 census the total urban population was 42,738, which makes it the largest town in the Republic of Ireland, although not officially recognised. Unlike most large towns, Swords does not have a town council or any legal boundaries. Towns which do not have legal boundaries are classified as Census Towns for statistical reasons and are given borders by the Central Statistics Office. However, when they gave borders to the Swords census town they excluded the Drynam and Holywell housing estates, and considered them as a separate census town of "Kinsealy-Drinan". The "Swords" census town had a population of 36,924 (the third largest in Ireland), and the "Kinsealy-Drinan" census town had a population of 5,814. This contradicts their own guidelines which say that borders will be extended to include all occupied dwellings within 100 metres of an existing building.[13] According to the CSO's own SAPMAP viewer, there is definitely less than 100 meters between the two census towns, down to only 10 metres at one point.[14] The two census towns are part of the same urban area, and are both within the Swords development boundary, as defined by Fingal County Council.[15] When put together they have a total population of 42,738, well ahead of Irelands official largest town, Drogheda (38,578). The reason that two census towns were identified is probably because of an area of undeveloped land between them at Barryparks. This land has been left undeveloped because Fingal County Council has reserved it for commercial use to allow Swords develop its own city centre. This problem can't be resolved until at least the next census in 2016, although it could also be resolved by applying legal boundaries to Swords, covering the entire developed urban area.

    Fingal County Council have referred to Swords as an "Emerging City", and expect that the town's (or city's) population will reach 100,000 by 2035.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swords,_Dublin
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drogheda


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    #70
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    celticbest wrote: »
    Swords is "unofficially" the largest Town in Ireland with a Population of 42,738, it you take in the Greater Swords area the Population increases to 60,583, compare this to the next Largest Town, Drogheda - Pop. 38,578 and you can see the difference in amenities available in Swords.

    In Drogheda you have,
    2 Lidl's,
    2 Aldi's
    Drogheda Town Centre
    Laurence Town Centre
    Scotch Hall
    Drogheda Retail Park
    M1 Retail Park
    Tesco's Extra.

    Swords,
    1 Lidl
    The Pavilions
    J.C's
    Airside

    So the answer to your question is the Pop. of Swords dictates it as a requirement.

    As a Town Swords is vastly under developed when it comes to Retail v Population.

    C'mon now and get a grip. If you are including Drogheda Town Centre, then you may as well be including the shops in the Castle Shopping Centre and the Plaza.

    The M1 Retail Park?? So now I have to consider the Airside retail Park. Should I then consider the Airside South Quarter - with its TGI's and Starbucks and O'Brien's as its central.

    And again lack of retail is to do with a recession. No point in having a bunch of centres that can't sustain themselves. There's empty units in the Pavillions and the extension isnt proceeding. Theres empty units in the Airside Retail Park. And theres empty units on the main street!

    Why would Swords need further retail parks when Blanch is 15 mins down the road, Charlestown 10 mins down the road.


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    #71
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    I can't believe we could sustain another huge supermarket on top of what's already there. Main st of Swords is so depressing to walk down: all those empty units and bookies. I think our main issue is parking - it's a nightmare, especially Forster Way (aka pothole road).

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #72
    celticbest
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭celticbest


    peteb2 wrote: »
    C'mon now and get a grip. If you are including Drogheda Town Centre, then you may as well be including the shops in the Castle Shopping Centre and the Plaza.

    The M1 Retail Park?? So now I have to consider the Airside retail Park. Should I then consider the Airside South Quarter - with its TGI's and Starbucks and O'Brien's as its central.

    And again lack of retail is to do with a recession. No point in having a bunch of centres that can't sustain themselves. There's empty units in the Pavillions and the extension isnt proceeding. Theres empty units in the Airside Retail Park. And theres empty units on the main street!

    Why would Swords need further retail parks when Blanch is 15 mins down the road, Charlestown 10 mins down the road.

    ^:eek: Why would I want to leave Swords and go to Blanch or Finglas to shop?

    I only mentioned major retail outlets in both Drogheda and Swords, I could have gone into much greater detail on the small local shops but did not see the point of this.

    I would look at Drogheda Town centre as a Major retail outlet because it has a proper anchor store (Dunnes Stores), this is why I would compare it to the likes of JC's even though JC's only has about a 1/4 of the stores, you could not compare it in anyway with the Castle or Plaza.

    You just seem purely set against a Tesco opening near you & are trying to come up with any half arsed reason to justify it not be allowed/needed.


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    #73
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    Oh don't get me wrong - I'm wholly against it going up in this area. But that purely comes down to the developer and his lack of bothering his hole to finish anything he starts. So I can only see the whole process being a nightmare. And even when its done it probably won't be done to spec, the contract will be voided and there will be a big empty shopping centre. Just like the office at the front of the Airside Business Park.

    But as I said there is plenty of empty retails spaces in Swords and the old adage of "build it and they will come" just doesn't work in these recession days. No point in putting a load of shopping centres in Swords when the existing ones aren't fully occupied. Just to have some cheap pound shops open up that will close down in a year or do.

    there are plenty of supermarkets around. No need for one more just cos people are too lazy to go to Clarehall!


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    #74
    celticbest
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭celticbest


    peteb2 wrote: »
    Oh don't get me wrong - I'm wholly against it going up in this area. But that purely comes down to the developer and his lack of bothering his hole to finish anything he starts. So I can only see the whole process being a nightmare. And even when its done it probably won't be done to spec, the contract will be voided and there will be a big empty shopping centre. Just like the office at the front of the Airside Business Park.

    But as I said there is plenty of empty retails spaces in Swords and the old adage of "build it and they will come" just doesn't work in these recession days. No point in putting a load of shopping centres in Swords when the existing ones aren't fully occupied. Just to have some cheap pound shops open up that will close down in a year or do.

    there are plenty of supermarkets around. No need for one more just cos people are too lazy to go to Clarehall!

    Getting to Clarehall from Swords is no easy feast by public transport, the 43 comes up the North end of Swords twice a day as far as I'm aware.....

    As part of the planning process the roads into and out of the new centre would have to be up to standard, currently the Pavilions can be a nightmare to get in and out of so the option for an alternative is definitely required.

    I agree that if possible existing buildings should be used and have in the past suggested that the old Motorola building would be ready made for a major retailer.
    celticbest wrote: »
    I'm up in Applewood and would have loved if Tesco had moved into the old Motorola building, it would have been Ideal.

    The plus side is that the employment created both while building and then when the store is opened would be a major boost to the area.


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    #75
    Kumsheen
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭Kumsheen


    Swords has enough population for all the Supermarkets, there is no question about that.
    A lot of Swords people are currently driving to eg, Clare Hall and Blanch for shops that are not available them there. So why shouldn't those options be available to them in Swords if there is the demand here?

    Obviously a negative issue would be traffic and exact location and access can make a huge difference in that regard.

    But at least there are other positives for Swords like local Jobs in these Supermarkets.


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    #76
    SunnyDub1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,439 ✭✭✭SunnyDub1


    really don't see the need for it. Already mentioned we have plenty of grocery stores, Dunne's , lidl, jc's etc.

    All you tesco fans can easily take a 10 min drive out to Clare Hall :rolleyes:


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    #77
    celticbest
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭celticbest


    SunnyDub1 wrote: »
    really don't see the need for it. Already mentioned we have plenty of grocery stores, Dunne's , lidl, jc's etc.

    All you tesco fans can easily take a 10 min drive out to Clare Hall :rolleyes:

    :rolleyes: As I stated 2 posts ago not everyone drives.....


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    #78
    SunnyDub1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,439 ✭✭✭SunnyDub1


    celticbest wrote: »
    :rolleyes: As I stated 2 posts ago not everyone drives.....


    Then shop in in Dunne's, Jc's, super value.. Not like there is a shortage of foods shops around the swords area.:confused:

    And if it's Tesco you are so eager to do your shopping in, I'm sure you have a Friend/family member willing to drive up and back


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    #79
    celticbest
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭celticbest


    SunnyDub1 wrote: »
    Then shop in in Dunne's, Jc's, super value.. Not like there is a shortage of foods shops around the swords area.:confused:

    And if it's Tesco you are so eager to do your shopping in, I'm sure you have a Friend/family member willing to drive up and back

    I drive, plenty of other people don't.

    I shop thriftily and would love to have more local options to choose from when it come to getting my groceries without having to waste a load of petrol going from one part of Dublin to the next to do my shopping especially with the cost of a Litre of Petrol at the moment.


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    #80
    SunnyDub1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,439 ✭✭✭SunnyDub1


    celticbest wrote: »
    SunnyDub1 wrote: »
    Then shop in in Dunne's, Jc's, super value.. Not like there is a shortage of foods shops around the swords area.:confused:

    And if it's Tesco you are so eager to do your shopping in, I'm sure you have a Friend/family member willing to drive up and back

    I drive, plenty of other people don't.

    I shop thriftily and would love to have more local options to choose from when it come to getting my groceries without having to waste a load of petrol going from one part of Dublin to the next to do my shopping especially with the cost of a Litre of Petrol at the moment.

    Well then the people that don't should just shop locally ! IMO all the shops stock the same foods, all them have some sort of special offer each week and their own cheaper brand.

    All i'm saying is I really don't see the big need for it especially if the majority of the people in the area have objected to it.


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    #81
    celticbest
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭celticbest


    SunnyDub1 wrote: »
    Well then the people that don't should just shop locally ! IMO all the shops stock the same foods, all them have some sort of special offer each week and their own cheaper brand.

    All i'm saying is I really don't see the big need for it especially if the majority of the people in the area have objected to it.

    Why should people not have the choice local to them?

    FYI - All shops don't stock the same foods and even the foods that are common can vary greatly in price from one store to another,

    I'd much rather have an abundance of choice in my local area then a lack of choice.

    As I've stated before:
    celticbest wrote: »
    People in Swords seem to love a good moan about a new store being opened in there area, look at the Lidl thread and the hype that was built up about not being able to move along the Rathbeale road after it opened, this lasted for a day or two & the hype died off quick enough......

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055871244&page=10

    :confused: I just don't get it.......


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    #82
    loveisdivine
    Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭loveisdivine


    So basically people want as many shops as they can possibly get, all within about a 5 minute trip away.

    To the people that do drive - Clarehall is 10 minutes away. If you class that as too far then the word 'spoilt' springs to mind.

    People that dont drive - Unless you live in the holywell estate, the location of this Tesco is hardly going to be convenient for someone walking or taking the bus. So I dont see how it will be any more useful than pavillions.

    Why dont we put emphasis on filling the vacant lots with greengrocers or decent butchers or fishmongers?

    Edit - and lets not forget about shopping online! If you really cant make do with the multitude of shops already here.


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    #83
    celticbest
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭celticbest


    loveisdivine wrote: »
    So basically people want as many shops as they can possibly get, all within about a 5 minute trip away.

    To the people that do drive - Clarehall is 10 minutes away. If you class that as too far then the word 'spoilt' springs to mind.

    Spoilt :eek:, a town with the population of Swords is vastly lacking in the retail stakes compared to similar sized Towns in Ireland.
    loveisdivine wrote: »
    Why dont we put emphasis on filling the vacant lots with greengrocers or decent butchers or fishmongers?

    Get onto Fingal CoCo to lower rates and we might see the Main Street opening back up, as I always say 'the more choice the better', though if a major retailer wishes to open in the town or its surrounds then the chance should be grabbed with both hands.
    loveisdivine wrote: »
    Edit - and lets not forget about shopping online! If you really cant make do with the multitude of shops already here.

    I don't use credit or debit cards, I like to use cash as it give me more of a perspective on what I'm actually spending, also why would I want to pay a delivery change on my groceries? Which can currently cost up to €6.50 with Tesco's?


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    #84
    Larianne
    Registered Users Posts: 35,954 ✭✭✭✭Larianne


    celticbest wrote: »
    People in Swords seem to love a good moan about a new store being opened in there area, look at the Lidl thread and the hype that was built up about not being able to move along the Rathbeale road after it opened, this lasted for a day or two & the hype died off quick enough......

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055871244&page=10

    Traffic there is still an annoyance for residents. Christmas time will be a nightmare.
    celticbest wrote: »
    Getting to Clarehall from Swords is no easy feast by public transport, the 43 comes up the North end of Swords twice a day as far as I'm aware.....

    What do you mean north end? The service is very regular now coming from Swords Business Park.

    I don't see a need for Tesco in Swords with the rest of the supermarkets available in the area. Besides if you want to do a 'shop' in Tesco then you'll need a car. Non-drivers can use the delivery service, just like many others who use Superquinn's and JC's home delivery service.


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    #85
    celticbest
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭celticbest


    Just to clarify, is the Tesco proposed for the following spot? TescoHolywell_zps0f07abc6.jpg

    From the application this is where I read it to be.


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    #86
    loveisdivine
    Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭loveisdivine


    Yep thats it, only not all of that space. I think its just the half closest to the motorway,


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    #87
    loveisdivine
    Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭loveisdivine


    celticbest wrote: »
    Spoilt :eek:, a town with the population of Swords is vastly lacking in the retail stakes compared to similar sized Towns in Ireland.



    Get onto Fingal CoCo to lower rates and we might see the Main Street opening back up, as I always say 'the more choice the better', though if a major retailer wishes to open in the town or its surrounds then the chance should be grabbed with both hands.



    I don't use credit or debit cards, I like to use cash as it give me more of a perspective on what I'm actually spending, also why would I want to pay a delivery change on my groceries? Which can currently cost up to €6.50 with Tesco's?

    I think it comes down to personal opinion as to whether Swords has enough shops. Maybe compared to other places you consider it lacking, but I consider there to be more than enough shops for anyones needs. I honestly cant see how your needs cannot be met by the shops already in Swords.

    If you choose not to use your debit card to pay for things then that is your choice. But by doing that you are the one limiting yourself on how you can shop. Its nothing to do with not having enough choice of shops.
    You would pay a delivery charge because you dont drive. Another choice you have made.

    I choose to use debit cards and a car/my legs so I can make full use of facilities around me. I dont expect those facilities to come to me.

    Edit - Infact I dont WANT them to come to me! Supermarkets hardl make for pretty architecture!


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    #88
    celticbest
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭celticbest


    So the link road to Holywell could easily be upgrade to D2, which in turn would link to D2 on the R125 and people are complaining about access to Holywell :eek:

    Access cannot get much better then D2 leading to D2, the only bottle neck I can see on the route would be on the R125 from the R/A with the L2305 to the R132, again I'm sure it would not be difficult to make the R125 D2 heading towards Swords for this short stretch of about 200 to 300m.

    People objecting to this on the basis of access need there head examined.

    That's me signing off until the 15.01.2013 when a decision is due to be made by An Bord Pleanála. (Hopefully the right one is made and work can begin ASAP in the New Year)

    http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/241043.htm


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    #89
    celticbest
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭celticbest


    loveisdivine wrote: »
    I think it comes down to personal opinion as to whether Swords has enough shops. Maybe compared to other places you consider it lacking, but I consider there to be more than enough shops for anyones needs. I honestly cant see how your needs cannot be met by the shops already in Swords.

    100% agree, it's personal opinion and my opinion is there isn't the choice required for a Town of Swords size.
    loveisdivine wrote: »
    If you choose not to use your debit card to pay for things then that is your choice. But by doing that you are the one limiting yourself on how you can shop. Its nothing to do with not having enough choice of shops.
    You would pay a delivery charge because you dont drive. Another choice you have made.

    I choose to use debit cards and a car/my legs so I can make full use of facilities around me. I dont expect those facilities to come to me.

    Edit - Infact I dont WANT them to come to me! Supermarkets hardl make for pretty architecture!
    celticbest wrote: »
    I don't use credit or debit cards, I like to use cash as it give me more of a perspective on what I'm actually spending, also why would I want to pay a delivery change on my groceries? Which can currently cost up to €6.50 with Tesco's?

    Also as stated,
    celticbest wrote: »
    I drive, plenty of other people don't.

    I shop thriftily and would love to have more local options to choose from when it come to getting my groceries without having to waste a load of petrol going from one part of Dublin to the next to do my shopping especially with the cost of a Litre of Petrol at the moment.


    Sorry had to come back on previous post, now that's me signed off :D


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    #90
    loveisdivine
    Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭loveisdivine


    Ah come one you're making it sound like you have to drive to the Southside just to find a decent supermarket! Clarehall is 10 minutes!
    and if someone cant get there because they dont drive then that is their choice! There are still multiple supermarkets to choose from in Swords.

    No doubt this Tesco will go ahead. I have no concerns about access really aslong as the link road gets finished. I just genuinely dont see a need for it and i dont want it because I dont think we need to cover every inch of land in concrete and metal.


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    #91
    Meesared
    Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Meesared


    Not sure how you get to clare hall in 10 mins, takes me 15-20 depending on traffic


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