Problems correcting Census Online

Judgement Day · 16-06-2013 11:38am

Qualitymark wrote: »

Yes it does! The research I'm currently doing has been immeasurably helped by being able to check individuals' names in the 1911 census for free. I can only dream of how wonderful it will be when other records are available online.

Not everything is about grinding a profit out.

Which neatly brings the thread full circle. The 1901 and 1911 censuses FREE online are a wonderful resource - one that could be hugely improved for a pittance by making correcting easier. If extra staff are needed, let them be brought in from some other over-staffed area in the State sector. Anyway, if the website had been properly designed in the first place......

Qualitymark · 16-06-2013 1:09pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Which neatly brings the thread full circle. The 1901 and 1911 censuses FREE online are a wonderful resource - one that could be hugely improved for a pittance by making correcting easier. If extra staff are needed, let them be brought in from some other over-staffed area in the State sector. Anyway, if the website had been properly designed in the first place......

I actually like the site design a lot. Here's the Icelandic version, slicker, more *obviously* informative, but in a way less so:

http://www.manntal.is/?0.03317481721751392

(They're still expanding this, with many more records to come.)

Incidentally, here's the census return for PH Pearse and family - seems to have stymied the poor transcribers. Must put in corrections:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000133850/

Judgement Day · 20-10-2013 3:13pm

The National Archive Census website is still not fit for purpose and a trawl around my limited number of ancestors today threw up errors previously reported still in place, whilst others had been corrected as if by random. Still no means for reporting details of incorrect street names/townlands etc. Needless to say I have emailed Minister Jimmy Deenihan again - for all the use that will be. :mad:

Qualitymark · 20-10-2013 7:53pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

The National Archive Census website is still not fit for purpose and a trawl around my limited number of ancestors today threw up errors previously reported still in place, whilst others had been corrected as if by random. Still no means for reporting details of incorrect street names/townlands etc. Needless to say I have emailed Minister Jimmy Deenihan again - for all the use that will be. :mad:

Well, there's so many places to put every penny at the moment; I can completely understand how there isn't the money to make these corrections while the country is in deep crisis (psychological as well as financial; Ireland used to be a kind place).

Judgement Day · 20-10-2013 8:06pm

Qualitymark wrote: »

Well, there's so many places to put every penny at the moment; I can completely understand how there isn't the money to make these corrections while the country is in deep crisis (psychological as well as financial; Ireland used to be a kind place).

Can you though? We are supposed to be coming up with all sorts of ways of getting out of the economic mire and tourism is touted as one of the ways - genealogical tourism in particular. All it takes is a tiny redeployment of staff within government - where there's a will there's a way. A 'can do' mentality so lacking in Ireland is what's required.

Jellybaby1 · 20-10-2013 8:22pm

I would be happy to do the job of correcting but I doubt they'll be offering me a job, paid or unpaid any time soon.

Judgement Day · 25-11-2013 12:39pm

I'm afraid I'm like a dog with a bone with this one. Slightly quicker response this time at just over a month for a holding letter. Seems like the minister could do with some extra (or more efficient) staff himself!

Census+2.PNG

Ozymandiaz · 03-12-2013 3:58pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Since the 1901 and 1911 censuses went online I have submitted a number of corrections to the National Archive people and, while not receiving any reply, they were corrected. These were largely transcription errors. However, last year I submitted further corrections and these have not been corrected. Some of them were street/townland names etc. and the set-up online does not allow for those type of corrections. When you do finally find an email address to contact - not on the Census site - there is no response. I rang the National Archive today and felt that I was really talking to myself or it could have been the janitor. Anyway, in the heel of the hunt I have emailed the Organ Grinder aka Minister Jimmy Deenihan to see if he can get something sorted out. I should imagine that my experience is not unique and there must be a multitude of transcription errors that could be sorted out relatively easily if there was sufficient manpower. Given that Genealogical tourism could be the next big thing some joined-up thinking would be a good idea. Anybody else have any experience of reporting errors etc?

You are to be thanked for bothering to go to so much trouble. I too have submitted corrections on occasion. However, while we all deplore mistakes and hate being ignored by faceless bureaucrats it is possible that the manpower to deal with these things has been withdrawn or greatly reduced given the current economic climate. I think in the overall scheme of things we should exercise a little good judgement, continue to do the right thing ourselves and remain patient.

Hermy · 03-12-2013 8:45pm

I think people have been patient for long enough and it's more than past time that the powers that be got their house in order on matters genealogical.
And regarding the economy, looking after our genealogical heritage will generate funds and tourism, so it makes no sense to me that the funding and manpower is withheld.

Ozymandiaz · 03-12-2013 9:03pm

We need a little perspective here. I would love to see all relevant genealogical source material digitised and uploaded for free on the internet. Oh, joy! Access to the 1901 and 1911 Censuses is free. They might not be perfect, and they might be the occasion of a little frustration at times, but I would rather see backroom bureaucratic support staff cut than frontline health services, for example. If it is a choice between knowing who my g'g'grandmother married in 1850 or having an extra weekly visit by the district nurse, I know which I would pick.

Hermy · 03-12-2013 9:35pm

Firstly, there isn't a choice in this country - it's business first and society second.
And secondly, this isn't about digitising everything - it's about making corrections to the 1901 and 1911 Census returns which have been online now for quite some time.
That it still hasn't happened just isn't good enough.

Ozymandiaz · 03-12-2013 9:55pm

Hermy wrote: »

Firstly, there isn't a choice in this country - it's business first and society second.
And secondly, this isn't about digitising everything - it's about making corrections to the 1901 and 1911 Census returns which have been online now for quite some time.
That it still hasn't happened just isn't good enough.

The point is that the mistakes and errors are in the transcriptions of the 1901 and 1911 Censuses online, not the originals (although peoples' writing can be difficult to read and the information they supply can be plain wrong). The same is true of other online databases of transcribed material where you have to pay for the information. It costs money to rectify mistakes, that's all I'm saying. Sometimes there are higher priorities calling on that money and we ought not let our frustrations make us lose sight of that fact..

Hermy · 03-12-2013 10:05pm

It wouldn't cost an arm and a leg to get a system in place to correct the transcription errors.
And as I've said before I'm sure there are many like me who would be delighted to give their time for free to correct the errors.
Sadly the will isn't there to do this.

Jellybaby1 · 04-12-2013 12:26am

Hermy wrote: »

It wouldn't cost an arm and a leg to get a system in place to correct the transcription errors.
And as I've said before I'm sure there are many like me who would be delighted to give their time for free to correct the errors.
Sadly the will isn't there to do this.

Yep, me and all! Still waiting for the call. Free labour - you can't get any better offer than that.

Judgement Day · 04-12-2013 12:40am

It's all about a 'can-do' attitude and the Government, and State bodies have the opposite to that - can't, shan't and won't! :mad:

Judgement Day · 13-12-2013 4:29pm

And today, the expected hand washing email - no money, no staff blah, blah...and it's just one of the many reasons I will be encouraging my kids to leave this moribund rock as soon as they are old enough. Nothing ever changes in this country whether there's money or not. :mad:

Hermy · 13-12-2013 9:44pm

This is demanding work that requires attributes and knowledge, as well as digital skills and attention to detail.

Well how about that. And here's me thinking you just add water.
And then we get onto staffing levels and there's no money blah,blah, blah...
Have they never heard of Job Bridge?
Or even checked to see if any of us interested parties might be willing to give our time for free to get this moving. They could even throw in a few vouchers for the GRO to entice us.
The lack of imagination just beggars belief.

pinkypinky · 14-12-2013 1:01am

Hermy wrote: »

Have they never heard of Job Bridge?
Or even checked to see if any of us interested parties might be willing to give our time for free to get this moving. They could even throw in a few vouchers for the GRO to entice us.
The lack of imagination just beggars belief.

Actually, afaik, the one person they have working on corrections is a job bridge person.

Also, the GRO is an entirely different entity and there's no way they could mix.

(Not defending them, just trying to think like them).

Hermy · 14-12-2013 2:20am

pinkypinky wrote: »

...just trying to think like them...

Oh, please don't do that pinky!!!:eek::eek::eek:

mflood · 16-12-2013 6:27pm

The 1940 US Census which was supposed to take a year, was completed in just four months thanks to the successful partnership between a consortium of national genealogical organizations, FamilySearch.org and more than 163,000 volunteers. Why can't we do the same?

L1011 · 16-12-2013 7:17pm

Setting up open ended projects to handle image sets transcribed elsewhere would be unviable. However, letting a site like Ancestry have the images and capturing the alternate names it allows entry of would be possible.

FamilySearch or Ancestry WAK should be investigated for the '26 census and possibly church records though.

pinkypinky · 16-12-2013 7:20pm

Guys, we'll get nowhere with this until the CSO caves and that doesn't look promising. Roll on the new (2027) year.

pedroeibar1 · 16-12-2013 8:05pm

mflood wrote: »

The 1940 US Census which was supposed to take a year, was completed in just four months thanks to the successful partnership between a consortium of national genealogical organizations, FamilySearch.org and more than 163,000 volunteers. Why can't we do the same?

Because this is Ireland, the land of platitudes, of ‘shur it’ll be grand’ and of a confusion of self-congratulation and self-deception.. A place where mediocrity and lack of initiative is not only rewarded but positively encouraged (and inevitably re-elected with sickening regularity)!

MYOB wrote: »

Setting up open ended projects to handle image sets transcribed elsewhere would be unviable. However, letting a site like Ancestry have the images and capturing the alternate names it allows entry of would be possible.
FamilySearch or Ancestry WAK should be investigated for the '26 census and possibly church records though.

I’m a great believer in the way the Aussies have managed their ‘Trove’ website, with registered people granted access to correct data. Ancestry or any fee-based site should not be allowed sole ownership of such key data, it should be open-source.
Having spent many hours over the last couple of weeks (unsuccessfully) scrutinising a microfilmed parish register in the NLI for an elusive ancestor, I agree that it would be pointless to outsource the work to a foreign country.
I agree with Pinky, no point in wishing for advance release of the 1926 Census due to existing legislation. Not a hope in ever repealing that with what is stacked up in the pipeline. Given the rate of progress on other ideas it would be 2026 before the AG, committees, interparty codology, vested interests, Papers, Bills, etc ., were concluded.

Judgement Day · 01-10-2014 6:28pm

http://www.eveningecho.ie/2014/10/01/e15m-custom-house-emigration-museum/

Cork putting their case forward for a the location of the proposed 'National Diaspora Centre' but a few Euros can't be found to tweak the census website and take on some staff to update all the corrections. The National Diaspora Centre, if ever it happens, will yet another monumental waste of money if the basic tools for genealogical research are not put in place. Not only does the existing census need to be updated and the website expanded but the 1926 census needs to be put online - ASAP - whatever the legal problems are that may be in the way.

Jellybaby1 · 01-10-2014 8:32pm

Even if they had the money, do they have the vision?

Waitsian · 01-10-2014 9:36pm

National Diaspora Centre you say? Yeah, me too, first I heard of it.

It would include a national centre for genealogical and genetic research possibly managed by UCC and a web-based resource that will give virtual access through the web to the World Centre for Irish Heritage.

So I looked it up and this is what I found; quite a bit of reading but puts one in the picture:

http://www.failteireland.ie/FailteIreland/media/WebsiteStructure/Documents/4_Corporate_Documents/Strategy_Operations_Plans/National-Diaspora-Centre-Feasibility-Study-Final-April-2013.pdf?ext=.pdf

Judgement Day · 01-10-2014 9:54pm

mod9maple wrote: »

National Diaspora Centre you say? Yeah, me too, first I heard of it.

So I looked it up and this is what I found; quite a bit of reading but puts one in the picture:

http://www.failteireland.ie/FailteIreland/media/WebsiteStructure/Documents/4_Corporate_Documents/Strategy_Operations_Plans/National-Diaspora-Centre-Feasibility-Study-Final-April-2013.pdf?ext=.pdf

I bet that that fancy consultants report cost more than enough to employ some additional staff at the National Archives. Anything that comes from Failte Ireland is first rate bull**** - from my direct experience rather than opinion.

I wonder should I drop Enda Kenny an email and tell him that I like to be on the board of Failte Eireann - sure you only have to ask....

pedroeibar1 · 02-10-2014 7:36pm

That "NDC" has been on the agenda for a couple of years. Some of the vested interests are strongly pushing Limerick as a venue and I've heard that location has a good chance.

Qualitymark · 03-10-2014 7:45am

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

That "NDC" has been on the agenda for a couple of years. Some of the vested interests are strongly pushing Limerick as a venue and I've heard that location has a good chance.

Completely nuts. People looking for their heritage and ancestry will have to trek to Limerick? Absolutely disgusting, and the idea that "vested interests" should be involved… what a country this has become.

Waitsian · 03-10-2014 9:48am

Qualitymark wrote: »

Completely nuts. People looking for their heritage and ancestry will have to trek to Limerick? Absolutely disgusting, and the idea that "vested interests" should be involved… what a country this has become.

The only genuinely sensible spot for it is in Dublin quite frankly. Why not build it beside the airport? But then that takes common sense! :rolleyes:

Jellybaby1 · 03-10-2014 9:59am

Too close to the airport and they'd need sound proofing, too expensive. Anyway not in the middle of the city, somewhere they could expand in the future. Wouldn't want to make the mistake of the NAI again, running out of space. There must be land available on the outskirts of the capital they could use. I thought of the Phoenix Park/Farmleigh area but then again I wouldn't like to see any building in the park, its lovely as it is. Suggestions?

Judgement Day · 03-10-2014 10:03am

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Too close to the airport and they'd need sound proofing, too expensive. Anyway not in the middle of the city, somewhere they could expand in the future. Wouldn't want to make the mistake of the NAI again, running out of space. There must be land available on the outskirts of the capital they could use. I thought of the Phoenix Park/Farmleigh area but then again I wouldn't like to see any building in the park, its lovely as it is. Suggestions?

Suggestion: No need for such a centre. Spending a few million on sorting out the census problems and getting the 1926 one online would be much more likely to pay dividends - but it's just not sexy enough.

Jellybaby1 · 03-10-2014 10:08am

Well yes, of course, get the Census right, and better still, use local labour to do it. When I read about correcting errors here I had already reported some, but then I started keeping a record of what I reported, to date I haven't seen any corrections of those.

Judgement Day · 03-10-2014 10:14am

Corrections are very hit and miss - some that I've reported have been done and others repeatedly ignored. Plus, as I've already mentioned there's no way of reporting misspelt streets, townlands etc. I might try emailing the woeful Jimmy Deenihan again - he's 'Minister for the Diaspora' - or the equal woeful Heather Humphreys (Arts & Heritage) but she might be under a bus shortly/hopefully.

Problems correcting Census Online

Comments