Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

BonnieSituation · 05-03-2021 12:55am

easy peasy wrote: »

While I don't agree with POM getting a central contract, I think the decision may have been made as a more big picture move.

Munster have four centrally contracted players, Earls, Murray, Stander and O'Mahony. Earls is up in the summer, as is Stander. Realistically Earls won't renew and that will go to Jordan Larmour or Hugo Keenan or won't be given to anyone. Stander will hopefully sign on but if he doesn't, that one is going to Doris.

This would leave Munster with two and Leinster with 9-10? This obviously doesn't work and would mean Munster would seriously struggle to balance the books while Leinster would be able to afford a massive squad.

Maybe POM was just the wrong man in the right place.

That's a great post.

bilston · 05-03-2021 1:17am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Jesus.

I could have done without seeing that today. :mad:

Ha...I realised after I typed it that I'll have hit the half century by then!

BonnieSituation · 05-03-2021 1:25am

bilston wrote: »

Ha...I realised after I typed it that I'll have hit the half century by then!

Only a couple behind ya. Can't wait to see Buer's speech at your party tbh.

The collective "Shut Up Buer" will be something to behold.

Excuse me while I go an puke into my own scorn at your reminder of my own mortality.

molloyjh · 05-03-2021 10:27am

Bilston you really were on a roll yesterday weren't you? Reminding us all of a lack of pints & social life before reminding us all that we're getting old.....

Paul Smeenus · 05-03-2021 10:42am

BANHAMMER

.ak · 05-03-2021 10:54am

Nah lads, we’ll all be in our 30s...

The 2030s ....

Paul Smeenus · 05-03-2021 10:57am

No pictures of Ainsley, please and thanks.

phog · 05-03-2021 10:57am

easy peasy wrote: »

While I don't agree with POM getting a central contract, I think the decision may have been made as a more big picture move.

Munster have four centrally contracted players, Earls, Murray, Stander and O'Mahony. Earls is up in the summer, as is Stander. Realistically Earls won't renew and that will go to Jordan Larmour or Hugo Keenan or won't be given to anyone. Stander will hopefully sign on but if he doesn't, that one is going to Doris.

This would leave Munster with two and Leinster with 9-10? This obviously doesn't work and would mean Munster would seriously struggle to balance the books while Leinster would be able to afford a massive squad.

Maybe POM was just the wrong man in the right place.

Doesn't the IRFU pay all IQ players playing for the 4 provinces? In fact, bar a few exceptions I think they pay all the players playing for the 4 provinces.

The Inbetween is mine · 05-03-2021 10:59am

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

No pictures of Ainsley, please and thanks.

Can't be dealing with a raging horn this hour of the morn?

Squidgy Black · 05-03-2021 11:05am

phog wrote: »

Doesn't the IRFU pay all IQ players playing for the 4 provinces? In fact, bar a few exceptions I think they pay all the players playing for the 4 provinces.

They do, in the way of assigning budgets to each province and provincial contracts are paid from that. Central contracts are outside of that budget.

Former Former Former · 05-03-2021 11:09am

POM got his central contract on merit lads.

The idea that he got one because Leinster have loads and Munster need to keep theirs doesn't really square with Ulster only having two and Connacht one.

Paul Smeenus · 05-03-2021 11:12am

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Can't be dealing with a raging horn this hour of the morn?

MMMMMMOOOOOOOOODS!!!!!!!

salmocab · 05-03-2021 11:18am

Former Former Former wrote: »

POM got his central contract on merit lads.

The idea that he got one because Leinster have loads and Munster need to keep theirs doesn't really square with Ulster only having two and Connacht one.

I agree although the amount of central contracts also reflects the amount of internationals in a set up anyway. Leinster regularly have 13/14 on international duty so need more quality depth than others. There is a sort of innate fairness in the system too.

jacothelad · 05-03-2021 11:21am

molloyjh wrote: »

Bilston you really were on a roll yesterday weren't you? Reminding us all of a lack of pints & social life before reminding us all that we're getting old.....

Getting??????????????? Some of us are already there.:D:D:D

Sabre0001 · 05-03-2021 11:41am

Healy signs once year contract extension.

05-03-2021 11:48am

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Healy signs once year contract extension.

Good hes getting on but is still our starting lh. It will be very interesting to see how the opinions on this mesh with the opinions on pom

theVersatile · 05-03-2021 11:52am

Killer, Byrne and EOS haven't really had the chance to establish themselves as better than Healy so you can't really complain. Some man to hit rucks Cian in fairness - even if he has Popsicles for fingers at this stage

aloooof · 05-03-2021 11:58am

theVersatile wrote: »

Killer, Byrne and EOS haven't really had the chance to establish themselves as better than Healy so you can't really complain. Some man to hit rucks Cian in fairness - even if he has Popsicles for fingers at this stage

If Killer gets a good, injury-free run, I could see him getting the starting spot ahead of Healy. Our scrum platform has been very good this 6 Nations tho, and he's a big part of that.

roverjoyce · 05-03-2021 12:01pm

theVersatile wrote: »

Killer, Byrne and EOS haven't really had the chance to establish themselves as better than Healy so you can't really complain. Some man to hit rucks Cian in fairness - even if he has Popsicles for fingers at this stage

They don't get the chance as the unwritten rule of having to pick centrally contracted players continues to happen

Why not let him go under contract at Leinster and is he is good enough he plays, he is at that age where he wouldn't be looking abroad

aloooof · 05-03-2021 12:03pm

roverjoyce wrote: »

They don't get the chance as the unwritten rule of having to pick centrally contracted players continues to happen

It doesn't. Toner, Jack McGrath, Aki and POM have all suffered various degrees of being left out of the 15 to being dropped from the squad while centrally contracted.

arsebiscuits1 · 05-03-2021 12:06pm

aloooof wrote: »

It doesn't. Toner, Jack McGrath, Aki and POM have all suffered various degrees of being left out of the 15 to being dropped from the squad while centrally contracted.

Come on alooof.

You're letting facts get in the way of a good narrative here

sydthebeat · 05-03-2021 12:11pm

roverjoyce wrote: »

They don't get the chance as the unwritten rule of having to pick centrally contracted players continues to happen

obviously thats false.....

unless youre trying to argue some metaphysical Schrodinger's cat of something that can both exist and not exist at the same time

Yeah_Right · 05-03-2021 1:15pm

Madison Clumsy Crater wrote: »

Good hes getting on but is still our starting lh. It will be very interesting to see how the opinions on this mesh with the opinions on pom

The difference between Healy and POM is there is no obvious replacement for Healy. Kilcoyne is the next best but he is a year younger? And not obviously better. In POM's case there are a lot contenders who are younger and look better.

TRC10 · 05-03-2021 1:17pm

roverjoyce wrote: »

They don't get the chance as the unwritten rule of having to pick centrally contracted players continues to happen

Why not let him go under contract at Leinster and is he is good enough he plays, he is at that age where he wouldn't be looking abroad

Jack McGrath
Devin Toner
Peter O'Mahony
Conor Murray
Bundee Aki
Robbie Henshaw
Keith Earls
Rob Kearney

All have been either dropped or not selected while centrally contracted.

kilns · 05-03-2021 2:29pm

Madison Clumsy Crater wrote: »

Good hes getting on but is still our starting lh. It will be very interesting to see how the opinions on this mesh with the opinions on pom

Unfortunately Healy is still our top loose head and with his back up only a year younger and not an obvious upgrade on him. In an ideal world Porter would be out next loose head and Healy then wouldn't get a central contract. Loose head and hoooker is a real area of weakness for Ireland at the moment. Apples and oranges scenario with healy and Pom

thomond2006 · 05-03-2021 2:29pm

There's going to quite a bloodbath for extensions for 2022/23.

Fredinho · 05-03-2021 2:32pm

thomond2006 wrote:

There's going to quite a bloodbath for extensions for 2022/23.

I'd imagine IRFU are going to have friends back, but more money in the coffers to ease the burden.

Not sure of who's contacts are up but behind 2023 I think we'll be saying good bye to a lot of the current squad.

Healy, Herring, POM, Stander, Murray, Sexton, Earls will all be gone for definite sure.

theVersatile · 05-03-2021 3:16pm

Fredinho wrote: »

I'd imagine IRFU are going to have friends back, but more money in the coffers to ease the burden.

Not sure of who's contacts are up but behind 2023 I think we'll be saying good bye to a lot of the current squad.

Healy, Herring, POM, Stander, Murray, Sexton, Earls will all be gone for definite sure.

Is Herring on a central deal?

Must love hardship · 05-03-2021 3:21pm

What do people think about farrell courting the lions assistant coach position?

Obviously no guarantee a lions tour will go ahead and also no guarantee of an Irish tour this summer either v the Pacific island teams over there or in oz.

I think if he prioritises a potential back up role on the lions v south africa over his head coach position with ireland he should close the door behind himself on his way out.

Some could argue the point that a lot of irelands main players would be on the lions and playing against South africa who we will meet at the world cup.

But for me this summer 2 years out from a world cup working with a lot of younger fringe players potentially winning their first caps and being in camp for 5 or 6 weeks is more important than his personal gratification of being involved in the lions.

arsebiscuits1 · 05-03-2021 3:24pm

Must love hardship wrote: »

What do people think about farrell courting the lions assistant coach position?

Obviously no guarantee a lions tour will go ahead and also no guarantee of an Irish tour this summer either v the Pacific island teams over there or in oz.

I think if he prioritises a potential back up role on the lions v south africa over his head coach position with ireland he should close the door behind himself on his way out.

Some could argue the point that a lot of irelands main players would be on the lions and playing against South africa who we will meet at the world cup.

But for me this summer 2 years out from a world cup working with a lot of younger fringe players potentially winning their first caps and being in camp for 5 or 6 weeks is more important than his personal gratification of being involved in the lions.

Could learn an awful lot from coaching the Lions and be better for it.

kilns · 05-03-2021 3:25pm

Must love hardship wrote: »

What do people think about farrell courting the lions assistant coach position?

Obviously no guarantee a lions tour will go ahead and also no guarantee of an Irish tour this summer either v the Pacific island teams over there or in oz.

I think if he prioritises a potential back up role on the lions v south africa over his head coach position with ireland he should close the door behind himself on his way out.

Some could argue the point that a lot of irelands main players would be on the lions and playing against South africa who we will meet at the world cup.

But for me this summer 2 years out from a world cup working with a lot of younger fringe players potentially winning their first caps and being in camp for 5 or 6 weeks is more important than his personal gratification of being involved in the lions.

If he is available to Gatland, Gatland will take him as he is a World Class assistant coach but perhaps not a world class head (based on evidence so far)

Must love hardship · 05-03-2021 3:44pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Could learn an awful lot from coaching the Lions and be better for it.

He could... but he could learn an awful lot about some of the younger irish players by coaching them and gaining head coach experience on a tour which he needs prior to world cup.

sydthebeat · 05-03-2021 4:09pm

Must love hardship wrote: »

He could... but he could learn an awful lot about some of the younger irish players by coaching them and gaining head coach experience on a tour which he needs prior to world cup.

what tour?

theVersatile · 05-03-2021 4:19pm

Did Wales fans care when Gatland left to do the Lions?

Dubinusa · 05-03-2021 5:00pm

Loose head certainly is problematic. Healy looks slow and underpowered in the loose. Kilcoyne only a year younger. I can understand why Healy got the contract and fair play to him. But, one loose head surely must raise his head over the parapet over the next year!
I think Killer will pass Healy over the next year. He's so much better as a carrying threat. But behind him?
Ed Byrne to me doesn't cut the mustard. He's a good player and is mobile, but he's not international class, imo. E.O.S is probably the next in line. He needs to up him game a bit, obviously. I reckon he can do a job for us and I 'd be surprised if he's not in the 23 next year.

We're low on quality at loose head and moving Porter back would be nuts, imo. Who becomes the back up tight head? O'Toole is favorite and I think is not ready yet.

The top young loose heads would be
Wycherly, a long way off atm
Milne, a long way off
Duggan, I haven't seen much of him
Liam O'Connor, needs to get past Cronin.

James Cronin is an option. But he is 30 years old and hasn't made a camp in years. Dennis Buckley is 30 and has not made a camp. Peter Dooley is a good provincial player. Jack McGrath hasn't got back to form and is 31.

I suppose the coaching team will stick with Healy and Kilcoyne until there's a viable alternative.

Must love hardship · 05-03-2021 5:05pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

what tour?

A potential tour in Australia taking on Pacific Island teams..

Must love hardship · 05-03-2021 5:11pm

theVersatile wrote: »

Did Wales fans care when Gatland left to do the Lions?

Good point. However he took a 6 months plus sabbatical to be lions head coach. He had head coach experience with Wales and a world cup under his belt.

We are talking about a head coach with less than 2 years head coach experience leaving his team mid world cup cycle to be an assistant coach. Id like to know where his priorities lie.

Obviously if we have no irish tour you'd imagine
there will be some summer camp arranged for players not playing lions rugby this summer.

tgdaly · 05-03-2021 5:39pm

Must love hardship wrote: »

A potential tour in Australia taking on Pacific Island teams..

Yeah this is rumored alright, nothing will be confirmed until the end of the month they've said

sebdavis · 05-03-2021 6:04pm

Must love hardship wrote: »

What do people think about farrell courting the lions assistant coach position?

Obviously no guarantee a lions tour will go ahead and also no guarantee of an Irish tour this summer either v the Pacific island teams over there or in oz.

I think if he prioritises a potential back up role on the lions v south africa over his head coach position with ireland he should close the door behind himself on his way out.

Some could argue the point that a lot of irelands main players would be on the lions and playing against South africa who we will meet at the world cup.

But for me this summer 2 years out from a world cup working with a lot of younger fringe players potentially winning their first caps and being in camp for 5 or 6 weeks is more important than his personal gratification of being involved in the lions.

Has Farrell said he is going on the Lions tour or even thinking about it?

Dubinusa · 05-03-2021 6:21pm

How many matches on the tour? I would like to see us play Japan. Or Fiji!!

sebdavis · 05-03-2021 6:54pm

Dubinusa wrote: »

How many matches on the tour? I would like to see us play Japan. Or Fiji!!

Australia need money and they lost out on the 2 game tour last season. I expect they will want the 2 games plus maybe a pacific island team in Aus

sydthebeat · 05-03-2021 7:08pm

Must love hardship wrote: »

A potential tour in Australia taking on Pacific Island teams..

pipe dream at this stage

if the lions games are confirmed ahead of any irish tour being confirmed, then of course he should go with the lions.

Must love hardship · 05-03-2021 8:49pm

sebdavis wrote: »

Australia need money and they lost out on the 2 game tour last season. I expect they will want the 2 games plus maybe a pacific island team in Aus

I think Australia are playing France in a 3 game tour this summer

Must love hardship · 05-03-2021 8:55pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

pipe dream at this stage

if the lions games are confirmed ahead of any irish tour being confirmed, then of course he should go with the lions.

I doubt the irfu want to give players the months of May( if dont get to h Cup finals) June and July off..

If no tours you'd imagine they will be playing Wales or Scotland or similar over 3 games

dublin49 · 05-03-2021 10:07pm

Carty playing well and kicking well,should be closer to another cap than he is.

thomond2006 · 05-03-2021 10:13pm

dublin49 wrote: »

Carty playing well and kicking well,should be closer to another cap than he is.

You're ignoring half of his performance presumably.

Former Former Former · 05-03-2021 10:18pm

dublin49 wrote: »

Carty playing well and kicking well,should be closer to another cap than he is.

Tbh I think he's shown exactly why he can't get into the Ireland squad

theVersatile · 05-03-2021 10:52pm

Mixed the good with the bad. Haley did more for his Irish chances than Carty IMO.

Can see Thornbury picking up a cap this Summer if some of Beirne, Ryan, Henderson go Lions touring.

Buer · 05-03-2021 11:01pm

Too late for Haley to get into the Irish squad this time but if we're going on a summer tour, he's firmly in the conversation.

Carty was Carty yet again. Sublime moments punctured by incredibly basic errors. I don't think there's another 10 that would have executed that grubber and break in the shoulder. The awareness and pass for the opening try was great.

Then he also managed to get blocked down, kick it dead, miss touch and lose 40m with a long, off target pass which turned if over on halfway. He makes it very easy to ignore him as a potential test option.

The best performer from those released was Aki (who isn't going to feature at this stage barring injury regardless). Casey was grand. Great delivery but blocked down twice I think. Murray on form is still a better option overall as unpalatable as that may be to some.

JOD was good again but not going to be in the conversation due to the options in the back row. Blade was good but similar situation.

Conway clearly isn't right. He doesn't have any business at Carton House currently.

aloooof · 05-03-2021 11:38pm

Buer wrote: »

Too late for Haley to get into the Irish squad this time but if we're going on a summer tour, he's firmly in the conversation.

Carty was Carty yet again. Sublime moments punctured by incredibly basic errors. I don't think there's another 10 that would have executed that grubber and break in the shoulder. The awareness and pass for the opening try was great.

Then he also managed to get blocked down, kick it dead, miss touch and lose 40m with a long, off target pass which turned if over on halfway. He makes it very easy to ignore him as a potential test option.

The best performer from those released was Aki (who isn't going to feature at this stage barring injury regardless). Casey was grand. Great delivery but blocked down twice I think. Murray on form is still a better option overall as unpalatable as that may be to some.

JOD was good again but not going to be in the conversation due to the options in the back row. Blade was good but similar situation.

Conway clearly isn't right. He doesn't have any business at Carton House currently.

In terms of Ireland camp, I don’t think Shane Daly was bad 2nite, bit it felt like had one of his poorer games this season. Tho he was on the periphery at points as well, thru no fault of his own. He was always unlikely to get much game time, but I don’t think he’s advanced his case 2nite.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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