BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Foxtrol · 12-08-2020 4:27am

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

I do not know what you mean by 'Causation'

This image might help you. What you're saying is icecream is causing the sunburn with no evidence aside from them happening at the same time.

You have provided no evidence that there is any link between the protests and increased murders, aside from them happening at the same time. What you have shown is correlation not causation.

https://twitter.com/GorissenWim/status/1063080493879623680?s=20

Tell me how · 12-08-2020 4:29am

2u2me wrote: »

Check the bios, they're generally the people that also list their pronouns.

Here's an example I'm sure you can find an endless stream of them.

Janice Gassam Asare Senior Contributor Forbes

Bio: I help create strategies for more diversity, equity, and inclusion.

Link

I presumed the point was being made in relation to the financial or resource definition of the word equity.

It has 2 meanings. From Google.

noun
1.
the quality of being fair and impartial.
"equity of treatment"

2.
the value of the shares issued by a company.
"he owns 62% of the group's equity"

Here is a site which provides a definition in the context of activism.

Equity: The guarantee of fair treatment, access, opportunity, and advancement for all while striving to identify and eliminate barriers that have prevented the full participation of some groups. The principle of equity acknowledges that there are historically under-served and under-represented populations and that fairness regarding these unbalanced conditions is needed to assist equality in the provision of effective opportunities to all groups.

Given this context, I don't see how it can be suggested that they are looking for equality of outcome.

2u2me · 12-08-2020 4:51am

Tell me how wrote: »

I presumed the point was being made in relation to the financial or resource definition of the word equity.

It has 2 meanings. From Google.

Here is a site which provides a definition in the context of activism.

Given this context, I don't see how it can be suggested that they are looking for equality of outcome.

The very definition that you supplied comes from a site that provides this example in the very next line. You have some large blinkers on to miss this.

One example I like to use when explaining equity is The Equal Pay for Women campaign which is based in part on equity, as women have historically been under paid and under represented in executive roles. Many employers are beginning reevaluating their compensation packages to increase the likelihood of comparable benefits and incentives for men and women. For example, Apple evaluates salaries, bonuses, and stock grants to mitigate financial disparities between men and women in their company. These efforts landed them on Glassdoor’s 2018 list, “16 Companies Committed to Equal Pay & Hiring Now.”

So they have identified that groups of men and women get paid differently, and instead of focusing on the opportunities of these two groups they'd rather the two groups had the same average pays, equality of outcome.

Perhaps you could research the difference between equality of outcome and equality of opportunity.

We cannot enforce equality of opportunity, although most Western societies try to at least provide a basic level of housing, education and health care for all, without infringing the freedom to be different and have different opportunities and backgrounds, abilities and skills.

Neither can we enforce equality of outcome without turning our societies into a communist nightmare. Even then, we cannot be equal, without damaging or holding back those with great skills and abilities to the lowest common denominator.

The only way forward is equality under the law, where all citizens have the equal rights, duties and obligations - and the same punishments should they break these laws.

Equity is about chopping legs off not propping people up. The sooner you realize this the better.

Biafranlivemat · 12-08-2020 4:53am

Carfacemandog wrote: »

He really wouldn't.

I posted this in a separate thread earlier, but here is exactly what Martin Luther King had to say about rioting and looting:

"Urban riots must now be recognized as durable social phenomena. They may be deplored, but they are there and should be understood. Urban riots are a special form of violence. They are not insurrections. The rioters are not seeking to seize territory or to attain control of institutions. They are mainly intended to shock the white community. They are a distorted form of social protest. The looting which is their principal feature serves many functions. It enables the most enraged and deprived Negro to take hold of consumer goods with the ease the white man does by using his purse. Often the Negro does not even want what he takes; he wants the experience of taking. But most of all, alienated from society and knowing that this society cherishes property above people, he is shocking it by abusing property rights. There are thus elements of emotional catharsis in the violent act. This may explain why most cities in which riots have occurred have not had a repetition, even though the causative conditions remain. It is also noteworthy that the amount of physical harm done to white people other than police is infinitesimal and in Detroit whites and Negroes looted in unity.

A profound judgment of today’s riots was expressed by Victor Hugo a century ago. He said, ‘If a soul is left in the darkness, sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but he who causes the darkness.’

The policymakers of the white society have caused the darkness; they create discrimination; they structured slums; and they perpetuate unemployment, ignorance and poverty. It is incontestable and deplorable that Negroes have committed crimes; but they are derivative crimes. They are born of the greater crimes of the white society. When we ask Negroes to abide by the law, let us also demand that the white man abide by law in the ghettos. Day-in and day-out he violates welfare laws to deprive the poor of their meager allotments; he flagrantly violates building codes and regulations; his police make a mockery of law; and he violates laws on equal employment and education and the provisions for civic services. The slums are the handiwork of a vicious system of the white society; Negroes live in them but do not make them any more than a prisoner makes a prison. Let us say boldly that if the violations of law by the white man in the slums over the years were calculated and compared with the law-breaking of a few days of riots, the hardened criminal would be the white man. These are often difficult things to say but I have come to see more and more that it is necessary to utter the truth in order to deal with the great problems that we face in our society."

That is interesting what the Rev king said 50 years ago.
But today it is 2020
He mentions Detroit.
The last republican Mayor was in 1962, it has all been Democratic Mayors since then.
So who is to be held responsible for the condition of the city today, in an 90% black and brown Detroit .

Tell me how · 12-08-2020 5:05am

2u2me wrote: »

Equity is about chopping legs off not propping people up. The sooner you realize this the better.

I of course made the mistake of thinking that the idea of same pay for the same job was not the same as requesting the same outcome with disparate contributions. Looks like there is still some bit to go before that is accepted as being reasonable.

In terms of your statement above, that doesn't make any sense, it's like a Fox News chyron. Care to explain what point you were trying to make and why the idea of treating people fairly is cutting their legs off?

Biafranlivemat · 12-08-2020 5:36am

Tell me how wrote: »

There's two points to this First, it's not really downplaying it, it is putting it in to some sort of proportion and factoring in both A, the motivation behind the protests (widespread anger over several years amongst a community) and B, the volume of protests which have been held across virtually every city and state.

Secondly, in terms of the covid risk. Yes. It is an issue, but, many protesting at BLM marches continued to wear masks and B, there can be some argument for the justification of protesting such a fundamental thing as everyone being treated fairly versus protesting just to voice your anger at measures being put in place to try to protect people.

These ‘protesters’ have been around for a while. They always wear masks.
Boston 2019, No Covid-19 back then.
StraightPridenc2.jpg?w=795

2u2me · 12-08-2020 6:38am

Tell me how wrote: »

I of course made the mistake of thinking that the idea of same pay for the same job was not the same as requesting the same outcome with disparate contributions. Looks like there is still some bit to go before that is accepted as being reasonable.

In terms of your statement above, that doesn't make any sense, it's like a Fox News chyron. Care to explain what point you were trying to make and why the idea of treating people fairly is cutting their legs off?

The difference between equality of outcome and equality of opportunity was what we were discussing.

The previous example showed how equity advocates prefer instead to solve the disparities at the level of outcome, By enacting equal pay legislation etc.. My point being that this is how they approach disparities.

Instead of addressing the real issues that cause disparities at the highest level between men and women; maternity leave, cultural differences, bell curve differences, differences in hours worked, etc.. the focus becomes about attempts to equalize.

When looking at 'executive roles' they're looking for the more successful, intelligent people I'm sure you'd agree.

If perhaps the top 10% consists of 90% male (like a lot of research shows) wouldn't it be ludicrous to equalize these positions by male/female and the pay that they receive?

Isn't it about attracting top talent when we're talking about the top positions? For decades the US and the Soviets wanted the best chess players, they were mostly men, just as they are today. The same research would show that the 'worst' positions are also held by men.

As I said; chopping legs off.

silverharp · 12-08-2020 2:22pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Wrong.
The Pandemic.

hence the "in part" bit

Cupatae · 12-08-2020 2:55pm

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

The first paragraph says.

Fifty years after the federal Fair Housing Act banned racial discrimination in lending, African Americans and Latinos continue to be routinely denied conventional mortgage loans at rates far higher than their white counterparts.

I will re-write it to be more accurate.

Fifty years after the federal Fair Housing Act banned racial discrimination in lending, African Americans and Latinos AND WHITES continue to be routinely denied conventional mortgage loans at rates far higher than their ASIAN counterparts.

Comparing blacks and Hispanics to only Whites is not accurate, you must also talk about Asians.
But that would be a horrible fact, and I know how facts are not what the movement is based on.

Asians are kept as far away from this discussion as possible, as they take away 90% of the excuses and arguments BLM are making for the black community, imagine trying to spin the "poor hard done by minority victims of the big bad system" and then someone brings up Asians, makes things pretty awkward when you ve a successful minority that arent throwing toys outta the pram and blaming everyone else.

Makes BLM uncomfortable really and we all know thats racist to do!

Chris_Heilong · 12-08-2020 10:22pm

Cupatae wrote: »

Asians are kept as far away from this discussion as possible, as they take away 90% of the excuses and arguments BLM are making for the black community, imagine trying to spin the "poor hard done by minority victims of the big bad system" and then someone brings up Asians, makes things pretty awkward when you ve a successful minority that arent throwing toys outta the pram and blaming everyone else.

Makes BLM uncomfortable really and we all know thats racist to do!

It is far too inconvenient and disproves their entire world view which we and any sane person knows is a false world view, What will happen is they will start calling Asians white as that is their only option to continue the lies. Asians start out poor but put in the effort and try hard, they generally do not have a victim mentality or a white boogie man to blame when life gets hard.

Richard Hillman · 12-08-2020 11:37pm

Asians prove that a good family structure and high expectations within that structure are all that matter.

Errashareesh · 12-08-2020 11:43pm

Tell me how wrote: »

There's two points to this First, it's not really downplaying it, it is putting it in to some sort of proportion and factoring in both A, the motivation behind the protests (widespread anger over several years amongst a community) and B, the volume of protests which have been held across virtually every city and state.

Secondly, in terms of the covid risk. Yes. It is an issue, but, many protesting at BLM marches continued to wear masks and B, there can be some argument for the justification of protesting such a fundamental thing as everyone being treated fairly versus protesting just to voice your anger at measures being put in place to try to protect people.

Big picture or not, smashing up people's businesses and jeopardising jobs - particularly with things being volatile as it is due to Covid - is despicable. And there absolutely are people downplaying/defending it on social media. It's got nothing to do with BLM or George Floyd. I saw a video of an African American man crying over his bar being destroyed; two African American women expressing bewilderment over the mantra of "black lives matter" when their shop got destroyed. My friend's brother's bar in Chicago is repeatedly getting windows broken, and they're barely staying afloat as it is, due to the pandemic. But hang on, it's being argued on Chicago media that white people deserve it as reparations. "Fair enough". How can that be ok?

You can think the above AND be horrified by what was done to George Floyd.

Tell me how · 13-08-2020 12:04am

Cupatae wrote: »

Asians are kept as far away from this discussion as possible, as they take away 90% of the excuses and arguments BLM are making for the black community, imagine trying to spin the "poor hard done by minority victims of the big bad system" and then someone brings up Asians, makes things pretty awkward when you ve a successful minority that arent throwing toys outta the pram and blaming everyone else.

Makes BLM uncomfortable really and we all know thats racist to do!

Please explain how this is the case?

Also, in case you don't realise it, Asians don't quite have the same history in the US as the Black community does. As shown in Hong Kong, Asians are more than capable of activism when they feel they are being oppressed, where is the evidence that they have in any way a comparable experience as a community?

Tell me how · 13-08-2020 12:18am

Errashareesh wrote: »

Big picture or not, smashing up people's businesses and jeopardising jobs - particularly with things being volatile as it is due to Covid - is despicable. And there absolutely are people downplaying/defending it on social media. It's got nothing to do with BLM or George Floyd. I saw a video of an African American man crying over his bar being destroyed; two African American women expressing bewilderment over the mantra of "black lives matter" when their shop got destroyed. My friend's brother's bar in Chicago is repeatedly getting windows broken, and they're barely staying afloat as it is, due to the pandemic. But hang on, it's being argued on Chicago media that white people deserve it as reparations. "Fair enough". How can that be ok?

I don't know what you expect me to say here. Yes, anyone losing their business or seeing it destroyed is not a good thing. But, activism, of any sort is only successful when it draws attention to a cause and that is why there are protests and when you mix protests, high emotions, and an opposition of sorts, tempers do rise and people strike out. And I again point out that the vast majority of protests and attendants are entirely trouble free.

Do you think the entire BLM movement is invalidated if a single window is broken on a protest march?

2u2me · 13-08-2020 12:20am

Tell me how wrote: »

Please explain how this is the case?

Also, in case you don't realise it, Asians don't quite have the same history in the US as the Black community does. As shown in Hong Kong, Asians are more than capable of activism when they feel they are being oppressed, where is the evidence that they have in any way a comparable experience as a community?

Actual oppression is when you can get disappeared and no one asks any questions, or sent to forced labour camps, or get harvested for your juicy organs. It's a shame you belittle the Hong Kong struggle so easily.

Errashareesh · 13-08-2020 12:23am

Tell me how wrote: »

I don't know what you expect me to say here. Yes, anyone losing their business or seeing it destroyed is not a good thing. But, activism, of any sort is only successful when it draws attention to a cause and that is why there are protests and when you mix protests, high emotions, and an opposition of sorts, tempers do rise and people strike out. And I again point out that the vast majority of protests and attendants are entirely trouble free.

Do you think the entire BLM movement is invalidated if a single window is broken on a protest march?

Loaded question. I never even implied that. Why would I? I actually said the opposite. My point is simply that criticism of destroying livelihoods is not a criticism of all protests/objections to the brutality inflicted on George Floyd, and that there's nothing wrong with finding such community destruction appalling, or that it's ok to dismiss/defend it.

Tell me how · 13-08-2020 12:24am

2u2me wrote: »

Actual oppression is when you can get disappeared and no one asks any questions, or sent to forced labour camps, or get harvested for your juicy organs. It's a shame you belittle the Hong Kong struggle so easily.

A, I didn't belittle anything and I think if you look in to it the HK protests are not because of those activities.
B, IT's laughable that you suggest someone is belittling a group (which I wasn't) when you are going to such efforts to invalidate the concerns of a community which still experiences different treatment than others because of the colour of their skin.

Tell me how · 13-08-2020 12:27am

Errashareesh wrote: »

Loaded question. I never even implied that. Why would I? I actually said the opposite. My point is simply that criticism of destroying livelihoods is not a criticism of all protests/objections to the brutality inflicted on George Floyd, and that there's nothing wrong with finding such community destruction appalling, or that it's ok to dismiss/defend it.

No one is arguing damage is a good thing. But it is worth asking where is the concern for the destroyed livelihoods of some who are feeling and experiencing oppression that there is for buildings/businesses who are being impacted much less severely, by and large.

Errashareesh · 13-08-2020 1:14am

Tell me how wrote: »

No one is arguing damage is a good thing. But it is worth asking where is the concern for the destroyed livelihoods of some who are feeling and experiencing oppression that there is for buildings/businesses who are being impacted much less severely, by and large.

I don't think what I said was that puzzling. My point is merely that criticism of the looting does not mean criticism of all peaceful protests. People might not be saying that here but they sure are on Twitter.

Biafranlivemat · 13-08-2020 4:46am

Tell me how wrote: »

Based on what evidence can you suggest the re-write as you have done here?

In the table below. Asians were approved for more money and a lower interest rate than Whites.

Screenshot-2019-12-18-23.35.40.png

FT_16.12.28_HomeownershipObstacles_2.png

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/10/blacks-and-hispanics-face-extra-challenges-in-getting-home-loans/

scroll down to Figure 7 in the PDF

https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/community-development-issue-briefs/2018/2016-mortgage-lending-trends-in-new-england.aspx

And speaking of Racism and Discrimination, Kamala Harris proposed a lovely idea about homeownership.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/06/us/politics/harris-essence-festival-2020-democrats.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

The best part is.
The money would help cover down payments and closing costs for up to four million families or individuals, providing home buyers with up to $25,000 each.

I had to work and save to get my down payment and closing costs money
#Black privilege

13-08-2020 4:50am

Tell me how wrote: »

A, I didn't belittle anything and I think if you look in to it the HK protests are not because of those activities.
B, IT's laughable that you suggest someone is belittling a group (which I wasn't) when you are going to such efforts to invalidate the concerns of a community which still experiences different treatment than others because of the colour of their skin.

What about George Floyd and his death suggests it was anything to do with his race?

Biafranlivemat · 13-08-2020 5:04am

Tell me how wrote: »

Where is it indicated that this is the case?

Dumbing down
Getting rid of tests
what you might call 'reverse discrimination'
look at my post about differences in loan applications, notice anything?

stinkypinky · 13-08-2020 5:12am

Tell me how wrote: »

Do you think the entire BLM movement is invalidated if a single window is broken on a protest march?

Oh definitely not. It's not like you have BLM leaders encouraging people to loot because they're owed it. Stealing HD TV's and Nike shoes is really honouring the memory of George Floyd. But sure it's grand - the businesses have insurance. There's no downtime for the businesses and the insurance companies won't be forced to up the ante, money grows on trees, everyone's a winner!

https://twitter.com/ForAmerica/status/1293247869793771521

Biafranlivemat · 13-08-2020 5:14am

Foxtrol wrote: »

This image might help you. What you're saying is icecream is causing the sunburn with no evidence aside from them happening at the same time.

You have provided no evidence that there is any link between the protests and increased murders, aside from them happening at the same time. What you have shown is correlation not causation.

https://twitter.com/GorissenWim/status/1063080493879623680?s=20

It must be one of those crazy coincidences, that happened soon after the death of Saint George.

Tell me how · 13-08-2020 5:16am

Deleted User wrote: »

What about George Floyd and his death suggests it was anything to do with his race?

The fact that it was another example in a long line of cases where disproportionate force by police officers resulted in the death of a Black Person.

13-08-2020 5:22am

Tell me how wrote: »

The fact that it was another example in a long line of cases where disproportionate force by police officers resulted in the death of a Black Person.

Why is race brought into it?

Is the death of a black person due to disproportionate force more disturbing than the death of any different race?

Tell me how · 13-08-2020 5:24am

stinkypinky wrote: »

Oh definitely not. It's not like you have BLM leaders encouraging people to loot because they're owed it. Stealing HD TV's and Nike shoes is really honouring the memory of George Floyd. But sure it's grand - the businesses have insurance. There's no downtime for the businesses and the insurance companies won't be forced to up the ante, money grows on trees, everyone's a winner!

https://twitter.com/ForAmerica/status/1293247869793771521

Thats a single person from a single group in a single city. As you know, the BLM movement is most noticeable for the moment for not having a defined leadership, I wouldn't take her words as being the groups manifesto. In fact, on the BLM website, it makes no mention of such a policy (unsurprisingly) but does go through their views on what they are doing and why.

On a similar note, this guy, who is said to be a White Supremacist was clearly instigating violence at one of the early protests, you probably wouldn't therefore accept that this is evidence that all violence was instigated by similar shadow operators.

Umbrella Man

08_1011341262_FLOYD072920.FIRE_59407569.JPG?auto=compress&crop=faces&dpr=1.25&w=525

08_1011341262_FLOYD072920.FIRE_59407569.JPG?auto=compress&crop=faces&dpr=1.25&w=525

A masked man who was seen in a viral video smashing the windows of a south Minneapolis auto parts store during the George Floyd protests, earning him the moniker "Umbrella Man," is suspected of ties with a white supremacist group and sought to incite racial tension, police said.

Biafranlivemat · 13-08-2020 5:24am

Tell me how wrote: »

I presumed the point was being made in relation to the financial or resource definition of the word equity.

It has 2 meanings. From Google.

Here is a site which provides a definition in the context of activism.

Given this context, I don't see how it can be suggested that they are looking for equality of outcome.

Thanks for the link.I love reading about.
Diversity, Inclusion and Equity.
Also known as DIE :eek:

Tell me how · 13-08-2020 5:25am

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is race brought into it?

Probably because, there is a long line of cases where disproportionate force by police officers resulted in the death of a Black Person.

stinkypinky · 13-08-2020 5:37am

Tell me how wrote: »

Thats a single person from a single group in a single city.

You can't defend it so you go down the route of blatant whataboutery.

She is a lead organizer for BLM in Chicago, Chicago being one of if not the biggest BLM stronghold of all the states, not some single person that you've disingenuously tried to play her off as. The entire press refers to her as a key organizer for BLM in Chicago.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/lack-body-cameras-fuels-suspicion-chicago-shooting-72311616

Are you calling ABC news and the associated press liars?

Biafranlivemat · 13-08-2020 5:38am

Cupatae wrote: »

Asians are kept as far away from this discussion as possible, as they take away 90% of the excuses and arguments BLM are making for the black community, imagine trying to spin the "poor hard done by minority victims of the big bad system" and then someone brings up Asians, makes things pretty awkward when you ve a successful minority that arent throwing toys outta the pram and blaming everyone else.

Makes BLM uncomfortable really and we all know thats racist to do!

Slightly Off Topic
A great way of Fcuking with people who complain discrimination and about white men, is to ask if they are talking about Gay or Straight.
Because Gay white men earn more than straight white men in the US.
You should see the expression of there faces.:)

13-08-2020 5:42am

stinkypinky wrote: »

You can't defend it so you bring go down the route of blatant whataboutery.

She is a lead organizer for BLM in Chicago, Chicago being one of if not the biggest BLM stronghold of all the states, not some single person that you've disingenuously tried to play her off as. The entire press refers to her as a key organizer for BLM in Chicago.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/lack-body-cameras-fuels-suspicion-chicago-shooting-72311616

Are you calling ABC news and the associated press liars?

People saying you can't judge BLM by the actions of a tiny few are looking to defund the police for the actions of a tiny few.

Tell me how · 13-08-2020 5:43am

stinkypinky wrote: »

You can't defend it so you bring go down the route of blatant whataboutery.

She is a lead organizer for BLM in Chicago, Chicago being one of if not the biggest BLM stronghold of all the states, not some single person that you've disingenuously tried to play her off as.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/lack-body-cameras-fuels-suspicion-chicago-shooting-72311616

Are you calling ABC news and the associated press liars?

Hang on, how is it whataboutery to give a comparable example of someone who was influencing riots in just as much way as this person? FFS, there's videos of them doing it and it was a police force that linked them to White Supremacist groups.

That's straight forward evidence.

Is telling that you want to focus on one but not the other. Also, did you actually intend to use as supporting evidence an article which again highlights suspicious police activity?

But on April, I have no doubt that she is an Organiser, that is not to say that she is part of a leadership group in the conventional sense where the words of one can be taken as the party message. Whenever such a person exists, for any body, they are widely referred to as a 'spokesperson' of not by an official party title such as chair/secretary/board member etc.

stinkypinky · 13-08-2020 5:48am

Tell me how wrote: »

Hang on, how is it whataboutery to give a comparable example of someone who was influencing riots in just as much way as this person? FFS, there's videos of them doing it and it was a police force that linked them to White Supremacist groups.

That's straight forward evidence.

Is telling that you want to focus on one but not the other. Also, did you actually intend to use as supporting evidence an article which again highlights suspicious police activity?

But on April, I have no doubt that she is an Organiser, that is not to say that she is part of a leadership group in the conventional sense where the words of one can be taken as the party message. Whenever such a person exists, for any body, they are widely referred to as a 'spokesperson' of not by an official party title such as chair/secretary/board member etc.

You're talking absolute nonsense. I'd have better luck with the flat earthers.

Here I'll entertain you - if she's "only a key organiser for BLM" and not a "leader" - where is BLM's statement condemning what she said considering it gained heavy national news coverage?

Biafranlivemat · 13-08-2020 5:49am

2u2me wrote: »

The difference between equality of outcome and equality of opportunity was what we were discussing.

The previous example showed how equity advocates prefer instead to solve the disparities at the level of outcome, By enacting equal pay legislation etc.. My point being that this is how they approach disparities.

Instead of addressing the real issues that cause disparities at the highest level between men and women; maternity leave, cultural differences, bell curve differences, differences in hours worked, etc.. the focus becomes about attempts to equalize.

When looking at 'executive roles' they're looking for the more successful, intelligent people I'm sure you'd agree.

If perhaps the top 10% consists of 90% male (like a lot of research shows) wouldn't it be ludicrous to equalize these positions by male/female and the pay that they receive?

Isn't it about attracting top talent when we're talking about the top positions? For decades the US and the Soviets wanted the best chess players, they were mostly men, just as they are today. The same research would show that the 'worst' positions are also held by men.

As I said; chopping legs off.

Example
Take a look at the Forbes US 100 list.
How many on the list are White and Male.
https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/

13-08-2020 5:50am

stinkypinky wrote: »

You're talking absolute nonsense. I'd have better luck with the flat earthers.

Here I'll entertain you - if she's "only a key organiser for BLM" and not a "leader" - where is BLM's statement condemning what she said considering it gained heavy national news coverage?

BLM is a movement and not an organisation.

(Despite having a manifesto, organised marches and organisers)

stinkypinky · 13-08-2020 5:51am

Deleted User wrote: »

BLM is a movement and not an organisation.

(Despite having a manifesto, organised marches and organisers)

Wonder where the money goes - it's certainly not going into black communities.

Tell me how · 13-08-2020 5:52am

Deleted User wrote: »

People saying you can't judge BLM by the actions of a tiny few are looking to defund the police for the actions of a tiny few.

Police Members investigated

At least 85,000 law enforcement officers across the USA have been investigated or disciplined for misconduct over the past decade, an investigation by USA TODAY Network found.

The current police force is approx 670,000 so lets say 850,000 people have been officers over the same period. That's 10%.
Does that sound like a 'tiny few'?

By comparison, the NY Times estimates approx 20,000,000 people have attended BLM marches in the 6 weeks after his death, (therefore likely much more by now). So it would have to be up to 2M people who engaged in violence for it to be of a comparable figure? Do you think that this is likely to have happened?

13-08-2020 5:52am

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

Example
Take a look at the Forbes US 100 list.
How many on the list are White and Male.
https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/

****.... Majority white America should probably not have majority white richest people.

13-08-2020 5:56am

Tell me how wrote: »

Police Members investigated

The current police force is approx 670,000 so lets say 850,000 people have been officers over the same period. That's 10%.
Does that sound like a 'tiny few'?

By comparison, the NY Times estimates approx 20,000,000 people have attended BLM marches in the 6 weeks after his death, (therefore likely much more by now). So it would have to be up to 2M people who engaged in violence for it to be of a comparable figure? Do you think that this is likely to have happened?

I'm not looking into those figures in depth at this hour (will do tomorrow) but investigated or disciplined is different than being found guilty. I'm assuming any accusation of misconduct would involve an investigation.

Also, your figures of people involved in protests is spurious as I'm sure it doesn't involve those who are classed as looters as they are separate (although the same)

So those figures mean nowt.

Tell me how · 13-08-2020 5:56am

stinkypinky wrote: »

You're talking absolute nonsense. I'd have better luck with the flat earthers.

Here I'll entertain you - if she's "only a key organiser for BLM" and not a "leader" - where is BLM's statement condemning what she said considering it gained heavy national news coverage?

Point me to the BLM national leadership team, similar to the GOP or the DNC?
As far as I am aware, such a group does not yet exist while what does exist is chapters in various locations which, I think operate largely autonomously.

I would also say, if this is a cogent plan amongst them, they really are doing very poorly at it aren't they given the 20M people who have marched and the comparative small amount of violence there has been on the vast majority of marches.

Tell me how · 13-08-2020 5:57am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not looking into those figures in depth at this hour (will do tomorrow) but investigated or disciplined is different than being found guilty. I'm assuming any accusation of misconduct would involve an investigation.

Also, your figures of people involved in protests is spurious as I'm sure it doesn't involve those who are classed as looters as they are separate (although the same)

So those figures mean nowt.

Lol.

But your evidence is to be taken as Gospel? Sure, ok then. If you say so.

Biafranlivemat · 13-08-2020 6:00am

Tell me how wrote: »

Please explain how this is the case?

Also, in case you don't realise it, Asians don't quite have the same history in the US as the Black community does. As shown in Hong Kong, Asians are more than capable of activism when they feel they are being oppressed, where is the evidence that they have in any way a comparable experience as a community?

Asians have an excellent Family structure (no different kids with different “partners”)
Work very hard
Have self control, compared to other groups
Have a somewhat higher IQ (I know, it is dangerous to say that)
And to top it off, they do face Discrimination from Progressives/Liberals.

stinkypinky · 13-08-2020 6:01am

Tell me how wrote: »

Point me to the BLM national leadership team, similar to the GOP or the DNC?
As far as I am aware, such a group does not yet exist while what does exist is chapters in various locations which, I think operate largely autonomously.

I would also say, if this is a cogent plan amongst them, they really are doing very poorly at it aren't they given the 20M people who have marched and the comparative small amount of violence there has been on the vast majority of marches.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/our-co-founders/

Biafranlivemat · 13-08-2020 6:04am

Tell me how wrote: »

I don't know what you expect me to say here. Yes, anyone losing their business or seeing it destroyed is not a good thing. But, activism, of any sort is only successful when it draws attention to a cause and that is why there are protests and when you mix protests, high emotions, and an opposition of sorts, tempers do rise and people strike out. And I again point out that the vast majority of protests and attendants are entirely trouble free.

Do you think the entire BLM movement is invalidated if a single window is broken on a protest march?

What is your home address, i need to prove a point to you about 1 broken window

stinkypinky · 13-08-2020 6:06am

Deleted User wrote: »

So those figures mean nowt.

Thought figures mean nothing because people marched for the slogan - not for their agenda which is a different beast altogether.

Tell me how · 13-08-2020 6:06am

stinkypinky wrote: »

https://blacklivesmatter.com/our-co-founders/

From Wikipedia

In 2013, Patrisse Cullors, Alicia Garza, and Opal Tometi formed the Black Lives Matter Network. Alicia Garza described the network as an online platform that existed to provide activists with a shared set of principles and goals. Local Black Lives Matter chapters are asked to commit to the organization's list of guiding principles but operate without a central structure or hierarchy. Alicia Garza has commented that the Network was not interested in "policing who is and who is not part of the movemen

13-08-2020 6:10am

Tell me how wrote: »

Lol.

But your evidence is to be taken as Gospel? Sure, ok then. If you say so.

What is my claim that you require evidence for? That the vast, vast majority of the police force in America are not racist or people who abuse their power?

Ok.... Do you dispute that?

Manic Moran · 13-08-2020 6:14am

Tell me how wrote: »

Police Members investigated

The current police force is approx 670,000 so lets say 850,000 people have been officers over the same period. That's 10%.
Does that sound like a 'tiny few'?

By comparison, the NY Times estimates approx 20,000,000 people have attended BLM marches in the 6 weeks after his death, (therefore likely much more by now). So it would have to be up to 2M people who engaged in violence for it to be of a comparable figure? Do you think that this is likely to have happened?

Well, if you're going to go with figures, it's worth noting that an investigation is not the same as a finding of any malfeasance, and the figure is for 30,000 decertifications over a period of time from the 1960s according to the article. If you don't put any criteria in the search function, you'll see that the first page of 1,200 of 25 names of officers decertified includes dates such as 1985, 1990 or 1992.

I have absolutely no idea what the total number of police has been in the US in the last half-century-plus, but I think there's a difference between making a comparison of a ratio over six decades and one over six weeks.

Tell me how · 13-08-2020 6:18am

Deleted User wrote: »

What is my claim that you require evidence for? That the vast, vast majority of the police force in America are not racist or people who abuse their power?

Ok.... Do you dispute that?

Do you want to stick a percentage on what you consider equates to the vast vast majority so I know whether to agree with you or not.

I suspect that most police officers are not racist, but I also suspect that it only would take a few in a station of 20, 30 40 officers for it to be a problem because the culture will be to back your colleague and so that can grow to be a problem. A junior person walking in to a new station (as happened with some of the guys on the George Floyd incident) can find themselves in a position where they have to decide whether to call out their colleague, or back them.

And this is the institutional racism which is consistently referred to. And I would also say that it probably does not exist in every single police force in the country, but, evidence would indicate that it exists in enough for it to be a problem.

BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

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