Would you buy a diesel car now?

Top_Guy · 23-02-2020 1:57am #1

With it looking like the Greens will come into power, I've heard lots of people say that the tax on diesels will become prohibitively expensive in the next few years.

I'm in the market for a new car at the moment and theres a lot of diesels knocking around - however I'm not sure if I should take the plunge or not. Would you buy a diesel still? Interested in hearing peoples opinions on this.

Steve · 23-02-2020 4:19am

Hold out till we see what shower of eejits actually get in.

Personally, I'll not be giving up my TDi any time soon.

€280 vs €1200 equivalent road tax for 170 BHP is a no brainer and half the fuel cost.

con747 · 23-02-2020 4:30am

Due a new car soon and with the mileage done every week diesel is the only option, so yes I will be buying a diesel.

SmartinMartin · 23-02-2020 4:45am

Yes, of course I would. I'll change when it makes financial sense.

NIMAN · 23-02-2020 5:22am

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Yes, of course I would. I'll change when it makes financial sense.

... or when you are unable to buy one.
(but that'll be a while yet).

tuxy · 23-02-2020 5:24am

Steve wrote: »

Hold out till we see what shower of eejits actually get in.

Personally, I'll not be giving up my TDi any time soon.

€280 vs €1200 equivalent road tax for 170 BHP is a no brainer and half the fuel cost.

Yes, dispitte what any of the parties say they will continue to encourage people to buy diesel using financial encentives in motor and fuel tax.

NIMAN · 23-02-2020 5:42am

There are too many diesel cars out there now for them to ramp up the tax on them.

It would be political suicide.

The cars might be dirty and not suitable for most people driving them, but the Greens need to remember it was THEM who incentivised us all to buy them.

pudzey101 · 23-02-2020 10:02am

Yes sure , only the other day I purchased a 04 corolla 1.4 diesel as its mpg is great and I needed a small van

FFVII · 23-02-2020 11:42am

NIMAN wrote: »

There are too many diesel cars out there now for them to ramp up the tax on them.

It would be political suicide.

The cars might be dirty and not suitable for most people driving them, but the Greens need to remember it was THEM who incentivised us all to buy them.

They're in for 5 years, you'll forget in a couple days.

23-02-2020 11:46am

Great value to be had in second hand diesels. I bought one that will do me for 5 years, then we'll see what happens.

Lewis_Benson · 23-02-2020 11:47am

Yep, I travel 130-150 km per day.
And at the weekends two boats, trailers etc.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 23-02-2020 11:50am

I bought a diesel when it's was touted as the better option and it suited my driving needs.

I tried to sell it when I moved jobs closer to home and I couldn't get rid of it.

Great car and well looked after but my only option now would be to get a trade in on a new car through a dealer (which I can't afford right now).

So for now I continue to drive the diesel which is not suitable for my current short commute, I wouldn't buy one again as I'm stuck with it now.

BrianD3 · 23-02-2020 12:13pm

I would buy a diesel but not an "expensive" one. If you are looking to save money, buying a used diesel car for say, 5 grand, then diesel makes a lot of sense. Loads available, most on the post 08 tax, good reliability if you choose wisely, no hassle with range.

A coalition with (or even without) the Green Party will likely try to further discourage diesel through taxation but they won't be able to raise taxes massively. Even in the event that motor tax on a low CO2 diesel doubles from ~200 to ~400, some people who do average mileage and who were not otherwise going to change their car will panic and spend 35 grand on a new EV to save 200 a year in tax and a few hundred in fuel. Once that mentality becomes common place in the market then values of used diesel car will plummet. Not bad if you've spent 15 grand on a new Dacia Sandero diesel to get from A to B. Bad if you've spent 45 grand on a new A4 diesel and are one of those people who talks about having "equity" in their car.

People are very reactive, prone to panic and believe marketing bullsh*t. I wonder how many people have changed their diesels for Toyota "self charging hybrids" and found that their fuel costs are now higher.

PaulRyan97 · 23-02-2020 12:56pm

The problem is our tax system is still based on the NEDC CO2 figures which were wildly underestimated. We were supposed to switch over to the WLTP figures in 2019 but the government held it off for another year. I assume it will be changed in the upcoming budget.

Most cars will probably go up at least one tax band, I don't know whether this can be retroactively applied or not, they can derive NEDC figures from the new WLTP figures so I assume they can do vice-versa.

PaulRyan97 · 23-02-2020 1:11pm

Steve wrote: »

Hold out till we see what shower of eejits actually get in.

Personally, I'll not be giving up my TDi any time soon.

€280 vs €1200 equivalent road tax for 170 BHP is a no brainer and half the fuel cost.

What 170BHP engine currently has €1200 road tax?

sk8board · 23-02-2020 1:57pm

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Yes, of course I would. I'll change when it makes financial sense.

This is the only point that matters - the people who go electric or hybrid purely for environmental reasons is minuscule.
The overwhelming majority make purchasing decisions based on financial ability and mileage costs.

the current trend away from diesels only works if hybrids mpg improves to a comparable level.
My current Diesel car is simply the cheapest car I’ve ever taxed, run and maintained, with the highest mpg.

forget about electric as an economic option for a few years yet, it’s still under 2-4% of new car registrations, meaning it’s probably 1-2% of the national fleet, and 2nd hand cars are the vast majority of transactions

sk8board · 23-02-2020 2:04pm

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Yes, of course I would. I'll change when it makes financial sense.

This is the only point that matters - the people who go electric or hybrid purely for environmental reasons is minuscule.
The overwhelming majority make purchasing decisions based on financial ability and mileage costs.

the current trend away from diesels only works if hybrids mpg improves to a comparable level.
My current Diesel car is simply the cheapest car I’ve ever taxed, run and maintained, with the highest mpg.

forget about electric as an economic option for a few years yet, it’s still under 2-4% of new car registrations, meaning it’s probably 1-2% of the national fleet, which is where 2nd hand cars are bought and sold (and 2nd hand cars are the vast majority of transactions).

Mad_maxx · 23-02-2020 2:26pm

Simply too many diesels out there to hammer owners on tax

Planning to buy a diesel suv soon

1st dalkey dalkey · 23-02-2020 2:58pm

I think it depends of how much you are paying for it and how long you hope to keep it.

A second hand for less the 10K which you hope to change in a couple of years is probably safe enough.

But a big SUV costing 50K which you hope to keep for 10 years might not be a good idea.

London, Paris, Madrid and many others already have dates to ban them from city centres, Dublin will eventually follow suit, even if it is only an excuse to ease congestion. That is already damaging resale values and it will only get worse with time.

Mad_maxx · 23-02-2020 3:21pm

1st dalkey dalkey wrote: »

I think it depends of how much you are paying for it and how long you hope to keep it.

A second hand for less the 10K which you hope to change in a couple of years is probably safe enough.

But a big SUV costing 50K which you hope to keep for 10 years might not be a good idea.

London, Paris, Madrid and many others already have dates to ban them from city centres, Dublin will eventually follow suit, even if it is only an excuse to ease congestion. That is already damaging resale values and it will only get worse with time.

A ten year old SUV has very little value even today

Lantus · 23-02-2020 3:28pm

Diesel is a great option and I would have no issue buying a car type almost two thirds of the country use. Pity the poor politician that is going to anger such a large part of their voting base. Greens would be decimated.

_Brian · 23-02-2020 3:30pm

With such a high % of the working population commuting long distances, plus rural and farming folk diesel is an essential in Ireland for the foreseeable future. Europe have already indicated that ban on sales may not be allowed, plus it’s ten years away which politically is a few lifetimes.

I’d think banning them in 20 years may be more realistic as battery technology may have caught up with real world needs.

It’s really annoying listening to people in the suburbs of Dublin tank about how diesels need to banned, this is typical, people wanting to ban something they have no need for. Eamon Ryan would be an example yet he’s plonking about in a massive 9 seater old diesel, he’s just a two faced cnut.

corks finest · 23-02-2020 3:31pm

No,as a hybrid owner no need

PaulRyan97 · 23-02-2020 5:15pm

_Brian wrote: »

With such a high % of the working population commuting long distances

To be honest, this really isn't even close to being true. The vast majority of people do not commute long distance to work. Of the ~1.9 million people who commute to work every day in Ireland, just 12% live more than 25km from their place of work, a mere 4% live more than 50km away. The average commuting distance is something like 14km.

Now when you look at the statistics and see that as recently as 2016, 70% of new car sales were diesel and you start to see how nonsensical the whole love affair is. I mean if you really are commuting 50km+ a day up and down motorways at a decent speed, by all means buy a new diesel. Otherwise, you will be substantially better off with the likes of a hybrid or electric car.

I for one will not miss the smell of diesel fumes in Cork City at rush hour.

maddness · 23-02-2020 7:03pm

I drive between 50,000 and 60,000 kilometres a year so the only sensible option is diesel.
I’d love an Tesla but the cost and lack of superchargers here means it’s just not possible. As for the majority of other EV’s most have too little range and really just aren’t very desirable.
A hybrid would also be pointless for my needs so diesel it is.
If our government (however they may be) were serious about getting rid of diesels they would offer real incentives to encourage drivers to switch.

PaulRyan97 · 23-02-2020 7:11pm

They definitely need to get the older, more inefficient petrol and diesel cars off the roads, the amount of cars from the early to mid-2000s still hanging around is quite substantial.

A scrappage scheme for cars older than 10 years like we had in 09/10 would be a big hel;p. Maybe base the amount of money you get on a sliding scale of your desired cars combined CO2 and NOx emissions. So someone trading in an 06 Avensis would get more money if they bought a hyrbid Corolla than a diesel Focus etc.

tuxy · 23-02-2020 7:17pm

PaulRyan97 wrote: »

They definitely need to get the older, more inefficient petrol and diesel cars off the roads, the amount of cars from the early to mid-2000s still hanging around is quite substantial.

My car is from 1997, I get over 40 MPG but is it destroying the enviroment more than a new car?
I probably drive about 5,000 km a year at most. Is it worth having an new car built for me?

PaulRyan97 · 23-02-2020 7:39pm

tuxy wrote: »

My car is from 1997, I get over 40 MPG but is it destroying the enviroment more than a new car?
I probably drive about 5,000 km a year at most. Is it worth having an new car built for me?

Yes, some cars from the 80s and 90s could readily achieve good fuel economy, however that was due to the fact that they are so light in comparison to modern cars. For example the kerb weight of the Golf MK3 from the 90s was about 990kg, a modern Golf weighs between 1300kg and 1500kg. You must remember it's not all about CO2, older cars that don't meet more modern emissions standards could be putting out a lot more harmful particulate emissions than their modern counterparts.

Cars don't last forever and at some point people will want to change them, generally speaking older cars are going to be more polluting so it's best that if they are making a change that they be encouraged to take the cleanest vehicle they can.

elperello · 23-02-2020 7:46pm

I wouldn't buy a diesel because I don't need one.

What might help would be the next Government making a 5-10 year plan outlining future intentions for Motor Tax, Fuel Tax, VRT etc.

This would allow motorists to plan ahead.

tuxy · 23-02-2020 7:53pm

PaulRyan97 wrote: »

Yes, some cars from the 80s and 90s could readily achieve good fuel economy, however that was due to the fact that they are so light in comparison to modern cars. For example the kerb weight of the Golf MK3 from the 90s was about 990kg, a modern Golf weighs between 1300kg and 1500kg. You must remember it's not all about CO2, older cars that don't meet more modern emissions standards could be putting out a lot more harmful particulate emissions than their modern counterparts.

Cars don't last forever and at some point people will want to change them, generally speaking older cars are going to be more polluting so it's best that if they are making a change that they be encouraged to take the cleanest vehicle they can.

All those cars sound heavy! mine is 830kg

How much would I have to reduce distance traveled per year to make it better for the enviroment than building a new car?

Some of my trips are unnessacary, I could possibly reduce it to 3,000km a year.

PaulRyan97 · 23-02-2020 7:59pm

tuxy wrote: »

All those cars sound heavy! mine is 830kg

How much would I have to reduce distance traveled per year to make it better for the enviroment than building a new car?

Some of my trips are unnessacary, I could possibly reduce it to 3,000km a year.

If your car is in good condition and you're not interesting in upgrading, just keep driving it. If the opportunity every arises, leave the car at home and take a bus or carpool. Small changes can help too.

_Kaiser_ · 23-02-2020 8:54pm

I will probably be looking to change within the next 18 months. Although my annual mileage has reduced somewhat through increased working from home, it's still around 40K km a year.

I currently drive a 3.0 TDI A6 (2010) and I can't afford a brand new version of it. Most of the current EV/hybrid alternatives are frankly shyte by comparison (in my opinion), and not suited to my mileage, budget, or requirements anyway.
I also rent and have no driveway, so don't have the luxury of installing charging infrastructure. There's also nothing at my place of work 80km away.

Come back to me when I can buy the equivalent to what I have now, for the same used car money I paid for it, and will do the same range with the same "refil" time. Alternatively, let me know when I can rent a place closer to work without paying
almost double what I pay now.

As such, yes I'll be buying another diesel.

PaulRyan97 · 23-02-2020 10:08pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I will probably be looking to change within the next 18 months. Although my annual mileage has reduced somewhat through increased working from home, it's still around 40K km a year.

I currently drive a 3.0 TDI A6 (2010) and I can't afford a brand new version of it. Most of the current EV/hybrid alternatives are frankly shyte by comparison (in my opinion), and not suited to my mileage, budget, or requirements anyway.
I also rent and have no driveway, so don't have the luxury of installing charging infrastructure. There's also nothing at my place of work 80km away.

Come back to me when I can buy the equivalent to what I have now, for the same used car money I paid for it, and will do the same range with the same "refil" time. Alternatively, let me know when I can rent a place closer to work without paying
almost double what I pay now.

As such, yes I'll be buying another diesel.

You're definitely a legitimate use case for a diesel vehicle, sorry if this thread is coming off as an attack against people like you, my main gripe is people buying diesels who have no use for them (i.e for the school run or driving from the suburbs to town etc).

May I ask how much the 2010 A6 cost you?

uck51js9zml2yt · 23-02-2020 10:16pm

Bought 2 in the last 18 months

Ubbquittious · 23-02-2020 10:40pm

I wouldnt mind another VRS.

NIMAN · 23-02-2020 10:46pm

FFVII wrote: »

They're in for 5 years, you'll forget in a couple days.

Not true.

People are still talking about how the Greens told us diesel cars were the ones to buy in 2008.

I heard Eamon Ryan asked about it leading up to the election on more than one occasion.

wotzgoingon · 23-02-2020 10:50pm

PaulRyan97 wrote: »

What 170BHP engine currently has €1200 road tax?

Total guess but some petrol one.

_Kaiser_ · 23-02-2020 10:55pm

PaulRyan97 wrote: »

You're definitely a legitimate use case for a diesel vehicle, sorry if this thread is coming off as an attack against people like you, my main gripe is people buying diesels who have no use for them (i.e for the school run or driving from the suburbs to town etc).

May I ask how much the 2010 A6 cost you?

Few years ago now, but cost about 19k with trade-in from a dealer with 6 month full warranty.

Was a high mileage UK import but I've since put just under another 200k km on it and it's still going strong

I agree with your central point though.. diesels are meant to be driven, and will lead to expensive issues if not (aside from anything else). If you're an urban dweller who only does a few thusand km a year, diesel isn't for you.

Unfortunately Government tax policy from 2008 onwards encouraged a massive shift towards them and with the reality of cars being a lot more reliable nowadays (helped by the NCT requirement in part), so petrols became alnost extinct in most segments, and it's going to take a long time to change that.
Additionally there is the problem of woefully inadequate (or non-existant) public transport alternatives outside of the main towns and cities, necessitating car ownership and generally diesels (20 minutes at 100 km/h in say Cavan is very different to 20 minutes in Dublin City Centre).

Plus, most new cars out there are on finance deals like PCP, and that in itself is a big problem if and indeed when the next financial crash happens as there'll be a glut of "unsellable" diesel cars out there.

They're going nowhere for at least another 20 years I reckon.

tuxy · 23-02-2020 10:59pm

PaulRyan97 wrote: »

What 170BHP engine currently has €1200 road tax?

An Opel Omea V6 2.5 would be €1,294 and 178 BHP!

RandomViewer · 23-02-2020 11:03pm

2million cars registered on the road , About 4 k of them electric, new car sales between 60 -100 k a year ,even if electric car sales increased ten fold it will take 20 to 30 years before they are the majority
, if ever

JustAThought · 23-02-2020 11:12pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

2million cars registered on the road , About 4 k of them electric, new car sales between 60 -100 k a year ,even if electric car sales increased ten fold it will take 20 to 30 years before they are the majority
, if ever

No charging infrastructure for electric, especially In Dublin, charging now to be charged for and no more free charging points outside houses - yet they want us to migrate to electric and talk about banning diesel? Nobody in charge talking about how impossible it is to get around Dublin if youre not in the city centre and dont want to spend hours waiting on non existant busses or busses that only come every 45 minutes - if they bother showing up. I wouldnt buy a diesel car now but despite the environment and savings would be extremely reluctant to buy an electric at the moment - all I see is ques at charging stations and people in cars or taxis being dropped off to pick up their cars. Dosn’t look good. Ill he hanging onto my petrol for as long as it can last - dont want an investment risk on a diesel and cant afford the lifestyle and taxi fares for owning a current battery life electric. lose lose all round.

TrailerBob · 23-02-2020 11:44pm

Absolutely would. In the market shortly for something to replace our 11 year old Kuga which is starting to become less reliable, and with a 4 week old we need something newer. Can't afford a newer hybrid in most models, and with mileage being quite high, and living in a very rural spot, diesel is our only real choice. Green driving is still a luxury I'm afraid. And Eamon Ryan reckons rural areas should only need one car for every 3 homes... Jesus wept

tuxy · 23-02-2020 11:49pm

TrailerBob wrote: »

Absolutely would. In the market shortly for something to replace our 11 year old Kuga which is starting to become less reliable

Yikes, is that common for that model?

TrailerBob · 23-02-2020 11:51pm

tuxy wrote: »

Yikes, is that common for that model?

Not hugely, but it has 250,000km on it, and has the bones shaken out of it every day on the lanes where we live.. time to upgrade

tuxy · 23-02-2020 11:57pm

TrailerBob wrote: »

Not hugely, but it has 250,000km on it, and has the bones shaken out of it every day on the lanes where we live.. time to upgrade

I've never had a petrol car deteriorate much over that kind of distance.
I though diesels were stroinger.
Shocks are consumable items IMO.

adrian92 · 23-02-2020 11:58pm

I wonder if this same conversation took place over one hundred years ago regardihg the demise of the steam engine?

Wesser · 24-02-2020 12:01am

I asked the same question recently.... if you flick back through the posts youll find it....n

bennyineire · 24-02-2020 12:04am

Steve wrote: »

Hold out till we see what shower of eejits actually get in.

Personally, I'll not be giving up my TDi any time soon.

€280 vs €1200 equivalent road tax for 170 BHP is a no brainer and half the fuel cost.

I'm driving a Lexus IS300H, tax is €190 for the year and 210 BHP

shadydestroyer · 24-02-2020 12:05am

Even though my commute is only 20KM in total I still use Diesel, always have and always will until they stop selling them.

Nearly all my friends have Diesel as well doing similar distance in and out of work every day. Population where I live is about 1500 and nearly everyone drives a diesel.

Boards seems to be really weird with people talking about Diesel cars and people doing short distances for some reason.

Never had any problem driving short distances in them along with my friends.

It might get a good spin up to Dublin once every two months or so.

tuxy · 24-02-2020 12:12am

shadydestroyer wrote: »

Even though my commute is only 20KM in total I still use Diesel, always have and always will until they stop selling them.
.

I don't think petrol or diesel is needed to cover that distance.

adrian92 · 24-02-2020 12:14am

Wesser wrote: »

I asked the same question recently.... if you flick back through the posts youll find it....n

Sorry wesser, did not realise that you had already made my point
Great minds, etc

Would you buy a diesel car now?

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