Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [ POSSIBLE SPOILERS ]

TheValeyard · 11-08-2018 5:53pm

AMKC wrote: »

Daniels did say the war was coming to an end. But if the war never happened, then season three or even Daniels never happened.

Tell that to the crew of the Enterprise NX-O1. It happened for them.

Or the people of Earth who were attacked by the mini death star

AtomicHorror · 12-08-2018 9:57pm

Inviere wrote: »

J was shown in Enterprise, as a ship from the future. The Galaxy refit was shown in TNG as a possible future, with a side order of Q on the side. The J is definitely canon.

Memory Alpha says no!

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(NCC-1701-J)

Deleted User wrote: »

It's still a Supernova with years notice.

The Star Empire would evacuate and be just fine.
So I'm ignoring JJ movie canon, personally.

Also the films and series are still officially different entities

The (apparently canon?) companion comics to the 2009 film stated the nova was of an unusual type (subspace something something probably), and that the shockwave moved faster than light, and also intensified each time it destroyed something. The Romulan Senate refused to evacuate, as they did not trust Spock when he warned them about it. Romulan scientists considered the nova not to be a threat.

It'll be interesting to see if any part of the prime timeline elements are referenced. If not, they're unlikely to outright contradict them.

ixoy · 13-08-2018 12:13am

Not too surprising really, but Michael Dorn confirmed today at Comic Con that neither he, nor any other cast he talked to, has been asked about any part in this new series and the first they'd heard of it was at the Las Vegas convention. No huge surprise when they've got nothing more concrete than "Picard's in it" as an outline.

AtomicHorror · 13-08-2018 9:48am

ixoy wrote: »

Not too surprising really, but Michael Dorn confirmed today at Comic Con that neither he, nor any other cast he talked to, has been asked about any part in this new series and the first they'd heard of it was at the Las Vegas convention. No huge surprise when they've got nothing more concrete than "Picard's in it" as an outline.

They should probably have given them all a courtesy update on it, at least so that it wasn't news to them at the convention. The rumors were already flying so it's hard to see what harm that would have done.

Inviere · 13-08-2018 9:59am

With no script, no story, no plot, no filming dates, no characters chosen/written, and basically nothing other than Patrick Stewart in talks about how to pull this off, what exactly is there to tell them? If they're going to have a cameo role at some stage, they'll be offered the work in due course.

pixelburp · 13-08-2018 10:01am

Yeah, it's way too early to presume any other affiliated actor would be spoken to: I daresay there's only a thumbnail sketch of what the story will be, certainly no sign of any writers room just yet. Heck the whole thing could yet fall apart if the scripts don't come together.

Goodshape · 13-08-2018 10:27am

AtomicHorror wrote: »

They should probably have given them all a courtesy update on it, at least so that it wasn't news to them at the convention. The rumors were already flying so it's hard to see what harm that would have done.

I'm sure Stewart was under instruction to keep quiet.

Also, Frakes at least was there on the day. Whether or not this was actually his first time hearing the news –

https://twitter.com/jonathansfrakes/status/1025996302167957504

AMKC · 13-08-2018 11:16am

Goodshape wrote: »

I'm sure Stewart was under instruction to keep quiet.

Also, Frakes at least was there on the day. Whether or not this was actually his first time hearing the news –

https://twitter.com/jonathansfrakes/status/1025996302167957504

I would say he had a fair idea. Why would he have been up on the stage otherwise? Maybe he will direct a few episodes or even be in it too. We will just have to wait and see.

13-08-2018 11:26am

Frakes is, behind the scenes, a huge deal. I would not be surprised if he is involved in pulling it together.

pixelburp · 13-08-2018 11:29am

I'd be more surprised if Frakes didn't direct an episode or two; he seems more than happy to involve himself with Trek (or indeed, off brand Trek such as the Orville).

In fact the more I think of this show, the more I suspect it will mutate into a fan-fic style series of cameos: maybe that's not going to be the intention once the writers room gets together, but I could see CBS caving to fans to get them onboard.

13-08-2018 11:35am

pixelburp wrote: »

I'd be more surprised if Frakes didn't direct an episode or two; he seems more than happy to involve himself with Trek (or indeed, off brand Trek such as the Orville).

In fact the more I think of this show, the more I suspect it will mutate into a fan-fic style series of cameos: maybe that's not going to be the intention once the writers room gets together, but I could see CBS caving to fans to get them onboard.

And that will be a fecking waste.

I do agree though. This is a reaction to Orville and its nostalgia trip.
Problem is that, while everyone fawns over Orville, they'll hammer a canonical show trying the same thing.

If Trek had launched a show like Orville we would have had so many "We've seen all of this before" comments, from the same people saying Orville is real Trek

pixelburp · 13-08-2018 11:45am

Oh absolutely: had Discovery been as fawningly slavish as The Orville, it would have been eviscerated by fans for being archaic.

I'd say it's 50-50 how any cameos might go: like any bit-part, the trick is in the execution, and if the script can fashion an organic reason for (say) Admiral Riker to be involved then it won't be so bad I guess. Just looking at how severe the retrofit seems to be for Discovery - and I don't think this a bad thing mind you - it's not a leap to imagine the Picard show going to some lengths in bringing back old favourites.

Inviere · 13-08-2018 12:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

while everyone fawns over Orville

Almost everyone

I can't stand the thing

Goodshape · 13-08-2018 1:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Frakes is, behind the scenes, a huge deal. I would not be surprised if he is involved in pulling it together.

http://scrolldowntoriker.com/

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-08-2018 9:22pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And that will be a fecking waste.

I do agree though. This is a reaction to Orville and its nostalgia trip.
Problem is that, while everyone fawns over Orville, they'll hammer a canonical show trying the same thing.

If Trek had launched a show like Orville we would have had so many "We've seen all of this before" comments, from the same people saying Orville is real Trek

Of course but why would the new Picard show be like the Orville? It’s probably going to be a show primarily about him. He might be in a starship at some stage but it won’t be monster of the week.

13-08-2018 9:52pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Of course but why would the new Picard show be like the Orville? It’s probably going to be a show primarily about him. He might be in a starship at some stage but it won’t be monster of the week.

If they cave to fan pressure it will be

And bringing back Picard is playing directly to the nostalgia being drummed up by Orville

Evade · 13-08-2018 9:56pm

Having Star Trek in the name is automatically trading on nostalgia.

TheValeyard · 13-08-2018 10:01pm

Ive a feeling it with will be a story arc season and not like the TNG approach of randomness.

My own personal ramblings....

I think he will be a professor at Starfleet academy (new set design as the Breen flattened it in DS9)

Some ancient threat will emerge (related to Discovery season2?) that he has a lot of knowledge about, iconians,etc,etc, so Starfleet gives him command of a Starship and crew to figure out a solution and save the Federation from destruction.

13-08-2018 10:15pm

Evade wrote: »

Having Star Trek in the name is automatically trading on nostalgia.

Not really, you have had a Star Trek (show or film) in every decade since the 1960's.
What you have is a TNG nostalgia being stoked by McFarlane

Evade · 13-08-2018 10:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Not really, you have had a Star Trek (show or film) in every decade since the 1960's.
What you have is a TNG nostalgia being stoked by McFarlane

Having Picard in it doesn't automatically mean a return to TNG beigeness. None of the TNG movies have that.

Deagol · 13-08-2018 10:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Frakes is, behind the scenes, a huge deal. I would not be surprised if he is involved in pulling it together.

Myself and a friend had a very quick chat with Jonathan Frakes at the Las Vegas convention - we asked him what he was up to and he said "directing some shows... and doing something for CBS".

At the time (the Friday evening) it didn't click but now since the Patrick Stewart announcement it has us wondering

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-08-2018 11:06pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If they cave to fan pressure it will be

And bringing back Picard is playing directly to the nostalgia being drummed up by Orville

No. It has nothing to do with the Orville. He’s going to be a retired octogenarian. He’s not piloting a ship as a captain like Kirk, or his younger self.

And what fan pressure? The fans weren’t pushing for him to return. This show can stand in its own two feet.

You’ve been assuming the conclusion all this thread. It ain’t be like the Orville or a TNG reboot.

13-08-2018 11:09pm

I'm so sorry for upsetting you by discussing things on a discussion forum

pixelburp · 13-08-2018 11:18pm

If reports are true and CBS have a half dozen Trek shows planned, it stands to reason they need to court the existing fanbase to make them successes. That's a leap of course - they could just nuke the canon and say to hell with fans - but it doesn't feel like a huge one either.

Discovery got off to a pretty ropey start in that regard, and irrespective of the shows actual quality it divided fans quite severely. You can see by the trailer and mutterings from the production crew that season 2 will involve course correction.

It follows that the next Trek might aim to start from a fan friendlier point of view, tone or approach and the very casting of Stewart speaks to that IMO. Dragging him back comes off like an olive branch, and acknowledgement of what fans might like to see.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-08-2018 11:46pm

pixelburp wrote: »

If reports are true and CBS have a half dozen Trek shows planned, it stands to reason they need to court the existing fanbase to make them successes. That's a leap of course - they could just nuke the canon and say to hell with fans - but it doesn't feel like a huge one either.

Discovery got off to a pretty ropey start in that regard, and irrespective of the shows actual quality it divided fans quite severely. You can see by the trailer and mutterings from the production crew that season 2 will involve course correction.

It follows that the next Trek might aim to start from a fan friendlier point of view, tone or approach and the very casting of Stewart speaks to that IMO. Dragging him back comes off like an olive branch, and acknowledgement of what fans might like to see.

Nobody wants to see Picard replicating his younger self. In fact there wasn’t any fan demand for his return. There’s no audience for an octogenarian piloting a starship.

It will be something else.

TheValeyard · 14-08-2018 1:53am

Space.com have some interesting suggestions or ideas on the new show.

https://www.space.com/41473-star-trek-picard-series-bold-new-ideas.html

Personally I love number two. Hilarious.

"Returning to Earth and retiring from Starfleet, Picard has finally accepted that job offer that his old boyhood friend Louis made to him to take over the Atlantis Project (TNG episode "Family"). CBS pounces on the opportunity for a franchise crossover and simultaneously reboots the underwater sci-fi series "Seaquest DSV" in association with Universal."

or Number 10

"Picard marries Lwaxana Troi, and they open a modest hotel in the popular seaside town of Torqee, on Rigel VII. Together, with their inept Ferengi waiter, Mahvel, they struggle to not only run the business but maintain their sanity as chaos frequently ensues. Just don't mention the war when the Klingons come to stay"

pixelburp · 14-08-2018 8:37am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Nobody wants to see Picard replicating his younger self. In fact there wasn’t any fan demand for his return. There’s no audience for an octogenarian piloting a starship.

It will be something else.

Don't think anyone has said he'll be replicating anything, nor believes this Picard will still be gallivanting across the galaxy - beyond perhaps a 'retirement' commission. More likely he'll start off in academia or a teaching role given the character's prior characterisation. Definitely the less budget intensive option.

There has been a generally positive reception to the news, if a little tinged with caution, so clearly there's enough goodwill to float the idea far enough into execution. Returning to an old character is hardly a bold, unforeseen move in any franchise - and against the other Trek decisions by CBS points to an attempt to back-peddle a little from the tonal choices of the first few episodes of Discovery

AMKC · 14-08-2018 11:38am

Deleted User wrote: »

And that will be a fecking waste.

I do agree though. This is a reaction to Orville and its nostalgia trip.
Problem is that, while everyone fawns over Orville, they'll hammer a canonical show trying the same thing.

I would of had no problem with it. Some of the stories in the Orviller are actually very good and very like some from TNG.

If Trek had launched a show like Orville we would have had so many "We've seen all of this before" comments, from the same people saying Orville is real Trek

I would of had no problem if a new Star Trek show had of been like the Orville but without the stupidness and the vulgar language. Star Trek can do humour. Plenty of episodes in Star Trek that have scenes that are funny.

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Space.com have some interesting suggestions or ideas on the new show.

https://www.space.com/41473-star-trek-picard-series-bold-new-ideas.html

Personally I love number two. Hilarious.

"Returning to Earth and retiring from Starfleet, Picard has finally accepted that job offer that his old boyhood friend Louis made to him to take over the Atlantis Project (TNG episode "Family"). CBS pounces on the opportunity for a franchise crossover and simultaneously reboots the underwater sci-fi series "Seaquest DSV" in association with Universal."

or Number 10

"Picard marries Lwaxana Troi, and they open a modest hotel in the popular seaside town of Torqee, on Rigel VII. Together, with their inept Ferengi waiter, Mahvel, they struggle to not only run the business but maintain their sanity as chaos frequently ensues. Just don't mention the war when the Klingons come to stay"

I like number 3

Picard is a senior politician/ambassador and returns after a long period away from Earth to discover the Federation has been sliding away from its utopian ideals. This would take the form of a politically driven drama, reflecting in science fiction many of the issues facing the world today, as "Star Trek" has done successfully time and time again.

and number 5 myself.

Picard has become the president of the United Federation of Planets, and in a tense "West Wing"-style drama, we follow him through political turmoil on a truly cosmic scale as he negotiates peace treaties with the Kazon, arranges trade deals with the Tamarians and saves Sector 001 from all out war with Species 8472.
Although I would chance the Kazon for another race maybe the Vidiians or the Hirogen.

briany · 14-08-2018 11:54am

IvySlayer wrote: »

♪ Captain! Jean-luc Pi-card! Of the U-S-S En-ter-prise! ♪

Evade · 14-08-2018 12:24pm

I wouldn't mind if Picard was fully retired pottering around after archaeological mysteries like Professor Galen in the Chase.

5rtytry56 · 14-08-2018 12:35pm

What I could personally see Jean Luc's best role is one incorporating an aspect of weeding out "unworthies" of the Starfleet uniform.
He gave Cadet Crusher a good and proper dressing down, and made clear that Crusher's carreer was on a knife edge. Crusher made it, but only just.
Picard has also asked Worf if he wanted to resign.
A precedent to this was Spock stripping Officer Valeris of her stripes in the "Undiscovered country"
Then there seems to have been a lot of jolting for supermacy in the Starfleet admirality: Kirk was an admiral, albeit very briefly.
My take.

Greyjoy · 14-08-2018 1:22pm

The more I think about it the more that I feel I'd prefer a show where Picard is fully retired from Starfleet. If he's still in uniform in some regard it will feel too much like retreading old ground. But if it's just his personal adventures then it will widen the scope for more interesting stories but still have the potential for Picard to 'check in' to see how his old shipmates are getting on.

Inviere · 14-08-2018 1:46pm

Greyjoy wrote: »

If he's still in uniform in some regard it will feel too much like retreading old ground

100%

Plus, it wouldn't play into the whole "this is a different Picard, 20 years will have passed" teaser that Stewart hinted at. I'd believe Stewart too, because if it's got as far as him making a personal announcement, they've almost certainly agreed to what he wants from this project, which, I fear, will ultimately be the passing of Picard

But him being an Admiral, Ambassador, or teaching at the Academy, are scenarios I find very unlikely.

enfant terrible · 20-08-2018 9:58pm

What do people think of this guys theory, that the Picard series will be used to wipe out the prime timeline completely.

14.25 into here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLl17YXrAZY

pixelburp · 20-08-2018 10:35pm

Midnights Edge. Even before I clicked on the link I thought "that has to be that guy".

All we know for sure is: it's a new show; it'll star Picard 20 years after Nemesis. Beyond that is rank speculation given its highly likely they haven't even convened a writers room to spitball the premise.

Besides, you can't completely wipe a timeline out, not unless they nuke the whole universe but yeeesh, that's a bit grim.

Evade · 20-08-2018 10:54pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Besides, you can't completely wipe a timeline out, not unless they nuke the whole universe but yeeesh, that's a bit grim.

They do already have a plot device for that in STD. I can see a case for a hard reboot and getting away from continuity to do something fresh but if they did a reboot I imagine all they'll do is recast existing characters a la the JJverse instead of doing it the right way and make some new ones.

FGR · 20-08-2018 11:51pm

Evade wrote: »

a la the JJverse instead of doing it the right way and make some new ones.

Why are they so stubborn that they won't listen to the huge fanbase that is there? Imo most fans would prefer the 'same old same old' post nemesis over anything prequel or not-startrek.

21-08-2018 7:38am

FGR wrote: »

Why are they so stubborn that they won't listen to the huge fanbase that is there? Imo most fans would prefer the 'same old same old' post nemesis over anything prequel or not-startrek.

Because the fans are not enough in number to make enough money to warrant investment.

The "fans" are also incessant cry-babies, slavishly devoted to all things canonical.

odyssey06 · 21-08-2018 8:12am

Deleted User wrote: »

Because the fans are not enough in number to make enough money to warrant investment.
The "fans" are also incessant cry-babies, slavishly devoted to all things canonical.

Ah, wasn't Discovery launched on a pay channel because CBS reckoned there would be enough fans?
Seems like they are our loyal fans when they are looking for money, and slavishly devoted cry babies when they exercise their critical faculties!

Evade · 21-08-2018 8:56am

They banked on fans liking it just because it has Star Trek in the title.

21-08-2018 1:25pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Ah, wasn't Discovery launched on a pay channel because CBS reckoned there would be enough fans?
Seems like they are our loyal fans when they are looking for money, and slavishly devoted cry babies when they exercise their critical faculties!

They tried something new with Discovery and what happened?
These ****wits still want beeping consoles and cheap sets.

Scream bloody murder because they change the Klingons (ignoring that there have been at least 3 versions previously)

Give out stink about unheard of tech being shown, even though it was proven to not work safely and scrapped (ignoring the scrapping of Transwarp drive from th films)

Discovery is not perfect, by far, but this idea that they can easily move on with the story and gather new fans (while still having to navigate the minefield of canon) is not going to happen.

odyssey06 · 21-08-2018 1:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

They tried something new with Discovery and what happened?
These ****wits still want beeping consoles and cheap sets.

What are you, one of the inept writers of Discovery?
It's not enough to try something new. You have to be good, and if you're setting a story in an existing 'universe', show some respect and awareness for what's gone before - and what worked.

If you want to go off the reservation, don't write a Star Trek series, write your own one. And even by that measure, forgetting anything that went before with Star Trek, Discovery was decidedly a mixed bag.

21-08-2018 2:59pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

What are you, one of the inept writers of Discovery?
It's not enough to try something new. You have to be good, and if you're setting a story in an existing 'universe', show some respect and awareness for what's gone before - and what worked.

If you want to go off the reservation, don't write a Star Trek series, write your own one. And even by that measure, forgetting anything that went before with Star Trek, Discovery was decidedly a mixed bag.

Right, because TNG had sooo much in common with TOS.
DS9 had completely different story telling, feel, and atmosphere to either.

Voyager tried to replicate TNG and got slated for it generally.

Trek fans will demand a post TNG era show then hammer it for being too beholden to canon (and/or not being beholden enough)

Evade · 21-08-2018 9:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

They tried something new with Discovery and what happened?
These ****wits still want beeping consoles and cheap sets.

They aped the Dominion War from DS9 with none of the build up, not exactly original and I doubt you can find anyone who wanted the sets to look exactly like they did in TOS.

odyssey06 · 21-08-2018 9:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Right, because TNG had sooo much in common with TOS.

It did really. You can see the continuity from TOS series to films to TNG, as much as humanly possible for a series filmed across four decades of changing circumstances in the real world.

I'm not sure what show you watched, or even if you watched it. You seem to have a lot of opinions about Trek shows yet mouth off about Trek fans. So either you didn't watch it yet have very strong opinions about it; or did watch hundreds of episodes yet somehow aren't a Trek fan yet come onto a Trek forum giving out about 'Trek' fans. I don't know what to make of those attitudes so will direct my conversation to sincere Trek fans from now on.

pixelburp · 21-08-2018 9:42pm

I don't agree TOS and TNG were tonally similar at all; the original 60s series was a swashbuckling tale of space adventure, mixed with goofy, of the time sciFi cliches. Next gen, and Roddenbury, pulled the brakes and openly favoured the more pacifist diplomatic routes over visceral action. Heck it was why the writing room was such a disaster in season 1, the writers unable to make stories work with no conflict. It was that 'boardroom' drama that made the movie adaptations of Next Gen all the more jarring. Kirk would have suffocated in this Federation.

odyssey06 · 21-08-2018 10:00pm

pixelburp wrote: »

I don't agree TOS and TNG were tonally similar at all; the original 60s series was a swashbuckling tale of space adventure, mixed with goofy, of the time sciFi cliches. Next gen, and Roddenbury, pulled the brakes and openly favoured the more pacifist diplomatic routes over visceral action. Heck it was why the writing room was such a disaster in season 1, the writers unable to make stories work with no conflict. It was that 'boardroom' drama that made the movie adaptations of Next Gen all the more jarring. Kirk would have suffocated in this Federation.

I wouldn't have expected the Federation to continue as it was across the eras exactly. It would mature. Just as say US foreign policy differed from Teddy Roosevelt to FDR. Teddy Roosevelt would have suffocated in Eisenhower America too.
But I could see how the TOS federation could become the TNG federation, technologically and culturally and how the alien species we saw in TOS could develop into their TNG representations - that's the continuity.
Discovery doesn't fit either with TOS or TNG on any of those measures for me.

Optimus Prime · 21-08-2018 10:40pm

Was just reading there that Brent Spinet who recently signed on to season four of supergirl has dropped out and been replaced with Bruce Boxleitner due to “scheduling reasons “. Probably not related to Picard show but can’t help but wonder. It was only announced last week or something he would be on supergirl.

AMKC · 22-08-2018 6:47pm

Optimus Prime wrote: »

Was just reading there that Brent Spinet who recently signed on to season four of supergirl has dropped out and been replaced with Bruce Boxleitner due to “scheduling reasons “. Probably not related to Picard show but can’t help but wonder. It was only announced last week or something he would be on supergirl.

Actually it was three weeks ago that it was announced he would be joining the Supergirl cast. .

02-09-2018 11:28pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

It did really. You can see the continuity from TOS series to films to TNG, as much as humanly possible for a series filmed across four decades of changing circumstances in the real world.

I'm not sure what show you watched, or even if you watched it. You seem to have a lot of opinions about Trek shows yet mouth off about Trek fans. So either you didn't watch it yet have very strong opinions about it; or did watch hundreds of episodes yet somehow aren't a Trek fan yet come onto a Trek forum giving out about 'Trek' fans. I don't know what to make of those attitudes so will direct my conversation to sincere Trek fans from now on.

I'm a Trek fan alright. Not a lot of time for the over entitled "fans" who think that their view of Trek is the one true way.

Two posts now where you've gone to attack me as opposed to the comments, nice.

Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [** POSSIBLE SPOILERS **]

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Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [ POSSIBLE SPOILERS ]