La Liga 2014/15 Discussion Thread

Moneymaker · 20-04-2014 9:08pm

And the white handkerchiefs are out. Woeful from Bartra.

Andersonisgod · 20-04-2014 9:09pm

The handkerchiefs are out, this can't continue, a disgrace to the legacy of a legendary team and a great club.

Turtwig · 20-04-2014 9:10pm

Have to feel for Tata. He deserves a shot at another big club.

Moneymaker · 20-04-2014 9:11pm

He's being scapegoated big time. There's bigger problems at the club.

JPA · 20-04-2014 9:11pm

Turtwig wrote: »

Have to feel for Tata. He deserves a shot at another big club.

Why?

Turtwig · 20-04-2014 9:12pm

I'd love David Luiz to be another CB at Barca. :cool: Partnership of Him and Masch. Neutrals Manna from Heaven!:D

Ulysses Gaze · 20-04-2014 9:13pm

Good finish by Aduriz.

Deserved a goal after his bicycle kick in the first half.

Barcelona are a shambles at the back.

Moneymaker · 20-04-2014 9:13pm

JPA wrote: »

Why?

Because he was doing a fine job until people above him started getting involved.

A lot of Barca fans place the blame for the problems at the board, and I agree with them.

JPA · 20-04-2014 9:13pm

Moneymaker wrote: »

He's being scapegoated big time. There's bigger problems at the club.

There is but his appointment made zero sense on any level.

Turtwig · 20-04-2014 9:15pm

JPA wrote: »

Why?

At the start of the season he imposed his pragmatic style on the club. They looked more solid and organised than in some time. Some of the supporters and players didn't like this. Tata had to publicly compromise with the players. Barca reverted to usual shyte. Barca's form declined as anyone could predict. Tata becomes a scapegoat. Even though it's ideologues who are more to blame.

Moneymaker · 20-04-2014 9:16pm

JPA wrote: »

There is but his appointment made zero sense on any level.

Why? The changes he made were working. They were more solid defensively then they were in many years and scoring plenty of goals. They had more variety to their attack too so they weren't the predictable force they had become(and are now).

Look at the start and first half of the season they had.

Ulysses Gaze · 20-04-2014 9:17pm

Turtwig wrote: »

At the start of the season he imposed his pragmatic style on the club. They looked more solid and organised than in some time. Some of the supporters and players didn't like this. Tata had to publicly compromise with the players. Barca reverted to usual shyte. Barca's form declined as anyone could predict. Tata becomes a scapegoat. Even though it's ideologues who are more to blame.

No wonder Klopp has ruled himself out of the job.

Too much interference from the board.

Johner · 20-04-2014 9:17pm

Sitter from Messi.

CSF · 20-04-2014 9:18pm

2 very poor misses there.

MisterAnarchy · 20-04-2014 9:20pm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Yeah... he's looking more and more like a square peg in a round hole.

It was a desperation buy by Rosell ,who has been a shambolic president.
The primary reason for signing Neymar was to deprive Real of his services and make a statement of intent.

100m euro and counting on Neymar ,another poor transfer to go along with the huge amount of other poor transfer decisions over the last few years .

Bring back Laporta as president.

Look at the start and first half of the season they had.

They had a very poor second half of the season last year too after a great start.

Ulysses Gaze · 20-04-2014 9:21pm

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

It was a desperation buy by Rosell ,who has been a shambolic president.
The primary reason for signing Neymar was to deprive Real of his services and make a statement of intent.

100m euro and counting on Neymar ,another poor transfer to go along with the huge amount of other poor transfer decisions over the last few years .

Bring back Laporta as president.

Absolutely. Laporta would not have allowed it to descend into the farce that it has become.

JPA · 20-04-2014 9:22pm

Turtwig wrote: »

At the start of the season he imposed his pragmatic style on the club. They looked more solid and organised than in some time. Some of the supporters and players didn't like this. Tata had to publicly compromise with the players. Barca reverted to usual shyte. Barca's form declined as anyone could predict. Tata becomes a scapegoat. Even though it's ideologues who are more to blame.

Ideologies matter, they'll keep trying coaches until one of them gets it to work if need be.

Turtwig · 20-04-2014 9:26pm

JPA wrote: »

Ideologies matter, they'll keep trying coaches until one of them gets it to work if need be.

Then why get Tata in the first place? It's bizarre. They knew what they were going to get. Just watch the Spain and Paraguay game in the WC. (Or just that Paraguay team in general.)

I'm not dissing Barca's philosophy it's grand to have one but they have to be pragmatic. They way they've approached the last half of the season all teams know how to manage and play against. It has to change and innovate some how. Pep knew this. In his last season he experimented with loads of different formations trying to find one.

Moneymaker · 20-04-2014 9:27pm

I've never really believed in ideologies.

Winning football is the only ideology. And Barcelona's style has been redundant for some time, for three main reasons.

-Aging players, Barca can't press as relentlessly as they did at their peak. Also the players they've signed in recent seasons haven't been good enough to play that style.
-Opposition players and coaches working out ways to counter it.
-Their utter refusal to sign at least one top quality defender and to defend set pieces properly.

To stay successful in football, you need to learn to adapt. Barca haven't. And we are seeing that before our eyes now.

Moneymaker · 20-04-2014 9:30pm

Maybe not...

Great goal.

RasTa · 20-04-2014 9:30pm

Bilbao do look knackered.

Turtwig · 20-04-2014 9:31pm

Bilbao have the problem all Spanish teams with thin squads have at this stage of the season : fatigue.

Biggest concern for Atletico too.

Andersonisgod · 20-04-2014 9:31pm

Pedro Rodriguez, a class act, comes up with the equalizer. He's been harshly treated by Martino, he's the saviour at the moment.

Moneymaker · 20-04-2014 9:32pm

Eye of a needle. What a hit. Game turned on its head.

Ulysses Gaze · 20-04-2014 9:32pm

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Pedro Rodriguez, a class act, comes up with the equalizer. He's been harshly treated by Martino, he's the saviour at the moment.

...and what a finish by Messi!

Andersonisgod · 20-04-2014 9:33pm

Goal! From the dead, Barcelona have risen. Messi cannot be questioned.

Turtwig · 20-04-2014 9:33pm

Moyes is supposed to be trying Pedro to United. :pac:

(Think Pedro would really fit in at Arsenal. Himself and Theo would give Arsenal some pace)

Great goal by Leo.

ollie1 · 20-04-2014 9:33pm

Great free kick my Messi

JPA · 20-04-2014 9:35pm

Moneymaker wrote: »

I've never really believed in ideologies.

Winning football is the only ideology. And Barcelona's style has been redundant for some time, for three main reasons.

-Aging players, Barca can't press as relentlessly as they did at their peak. Also the players they've signed in recent seasons haven't been good enough to play that style.
-Opposition players and coaches working out ways to counter it.
-Their utter refusal to sign at least one top quality defender and to defend set pieces properly.

To stay successful in football, you need to learn to adapt. Barca haven't. And we are seeing that before our eyes now.

All valid points but football is entertainment.
Look at capello at Madrid. Style matters.

Andersonisgod · 20-04-2014 9:38pm

The idea that ideologies don't matter is ridiculous, without an ideology you have nothing.

COYVB · 20-04-2014 9:39pm

All ideologies in football are based around winning. it just happens that you win more by playing better football

Moneymaker · 20-04-2014 9:41pm

Andersonisgod wrote: »

The idea that ideologies don't matter is ridiculous, without an ideology you have nothing.

Maybe I phrased it poorly, but what I mean is a winning philosophy is all that matters.

Do you think any Atleti fans will care about their abrasive, counter attacking style of football if they come home with the league and/or CL?

Your philosophy should fit the players you have available to you.

Turtwig · 20-04-2014 9:43pm

Andersonisgod wrote: »

The idea that ideologies don't matter is ridiculous, without an ideology you have nothing.

What we mean is that it's not an all or nothing. You have to be realistic. Barca can tika taka but it has to be effective. Sure look at United against Everton today. Martinez's side is reknowned for passing but today they recognised that United were so hapless in possesion and vulnerable on the counter that that they just sat back and hit United clinically. Each time they had the ball their attacks look dangerous. Naismith squandered two excellent opportunity.

Tata's barca at the start of the season mixed it up every game. They had periods of pressing, periods of defending and waiting for counters. They kept teams guessing.

Moneymaker · 20-04-2014 9:45pm

The main point is you need to be adaptable. Tika-taka won't do you any good if the opposition is set up to counter it.

Arsenal's relative lack of success in the past 10 years or so is often blamed on Wengers refusal to be adaptable, to have a plan B.

kfallon · 21-04-2014 11:51am

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Pedro Rodriguez, a class act, comes up with the equalizer. He's been harshly treated by Martino, he's the saviour at the moment.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Goal! From the dead, Barcelona have risen. Messi cannot be questioned.

Pass the sick bucket :pac:

It's like one of those FIFA World Cup films with the terrible scripts

cson · 21-04-2014 12:06pm

Turtwig wrote: »

Moyes is supposed to be trying Pedro to United. :pac:

(Think Pedro would really fit in at Arsenal. Himself and Theo would give Arsenal some pace)

Great goal by Leo.

I'd love to Pedro at Arsenal. Himself and Walcott on the flanks would be electric; you'd instantly make Giroud move effective as a type of pivot between Ozil and the two wide men.

Moneymaker wrote: »

Maybe I phrased it poorly, but what I mean is a winning philosophy is all that matters.

Do you think any Atleti fans will care about their abrasive, counter attacking style of football if they come home with the league and/or CL?

Your philosophy should fit the players you have available to you.

Or buy the players to fit the philosophy?

Moneymaker · 21-04-2014 1:03pm

cson wrote: »

Or buy the players to fit the philosophy?

They've tried that, the players they have brought in haven't been good enough.

Andersonisgod · 21-04-2014 1:38pm

kfallon wrote: »

Pass the sick bucket :pac:

It's like one of those FIFA World Cup films with the terrible scripts

Clearly you're a hard man to please, also my (not so subtle) Easter reference felt suitable given the day and the situation but I suppose everyone is a critic.

Andersonisgod · 21-04-2014 2:48pm

Moneymaker wrote: »

Maybe I phrased it poorly, but what I mean is a winning philosophy is all that matters.

Do you think any Atleti fans will care about their abrasive, counter attacking style of football if they come home with the league and/or CL?

Your philosophy should fit the players you have available to you.

Of course you must win but at Barcelona you must win in a certain way. This idea that the philosophy, rather than how that philosophy is being applied, is broken is ridiculous. The Barcelona philosophy has helped make the club what it is today, a model which all others aspire to, something which Barcelona fans around the world can be proud of and is the bedrock upon which the greatest club side ever was built. The philosophy is everything, it is Barcelona.

That's the thing, the players Barcelona have are built for that one singular philosophy. Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Puyol, Pique, Alba, Valdes, Busquets, Pedro, Fabregas, Bartra, they have been schooled in the Barcelona way. Yes there has been mistakes with transfers but, for the most part, the players the club brings in are to suit the philosophy and Martino has, wrongly, tried to move away from the philosophy.

Moneymaker · 21-04-2014 4:16pm

Andersonisgod wrote: »

This idea that the philosophy, rather than how that philosophy is being applied, is broken is ridiculous.

Results of the last 3 years would suggest otherwise. Opposition teams are getting better and better at countering their style. Look at Atleti. 5 games, Barca have failed to win any of them. Look at the Copa del Rey final where Ancelotti basically copied Atleti's style, and only for poor finishing Real would have won comfortably. Bayern exposed them, Inter exposed them, Chelsea exposed them.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

The Barcelona philosophy has helped make the club what it is today, a model which all others aspire to, something which Barcelona fans around the world can be proud of and is the bedrock upon which the greatest club side ever was built. The philosophy is everything, it is Barcelona.

And it's something they are rightly proud of. The 5-0 defeat of Real Madrid is the greatest 90 minutes of football I have ever seen. It was lightning in a bottle, a level that is near impossible to reach again. Puyol, Pique, Alves, Xavi, Iniesta, Villa and Messi were all in their prime. And there's the problem. They are past their prime and replacements aren't up to scratch. It's time to adapt and change with the times.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

That's the thing, the players Barcelona have are built for that one singular philosophy. Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Puyol, Pique, Alba, Valdes, Busquets, Pedro, Fabregas, Bartra, they have been schooled in the Barcelona way. Yes there has been mistakes with transfers but, for the most part, the players the club brings in are to suit the philosophy and Martino has, wrongly, tried to move away from the philosophy.

So why hire him?

And they started the season strongly and the changes were working imo. They were still scoring plenty of goals and were still playing decent football.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 24-04-2014 1:35pm

My pre-existing hope that Atletico can win La Liga has been given further fuel. Me and a Real supporting friend have placed a wager that if Atletico win the title, I can kick him up the arse on camera. He can do the same if Real win it. If Barca win it's going to be a massive anti-climax.

Turtwig · 24-04-2014 1:48pm

Get the photo developed too like the one below on the left:

Corholio · 24-04-2014 3:29pm

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

My pre-existing hope that Atletico can win La Liga has been given further fuel. Me and a Real supporting friend have placed a wager that if Atletico win the title, I can kick him up the arse on camera. He can do the same if Real win it. If Barca win it's going to be a massive anti-climax.

I quickly read it and I saw the '..ck' at the end of 'kick' and I feared the worst :pac: