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22-03-2020, 19:26   #1
pinkypinky
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Latin translation help

What's the note on the birth of Maria Catherina Byrne say please? It's right in the centre of the page.
https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000633822_058

Her father is not named here but he is on the birth cert, so I'm expecting it's something to do with illegitimacy.
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22-03-2020, 20:13   #2
ath262
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I think the last word is father, in some declension (my Latin useless), a word in the 1st line that looks like Puella?, the first word on the second line some form of the word illegitimate. There's a word in there that looks like hominum or similar...

alternate version of the link (allows zoom etc)
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22-03-2020, 23:05   #3
pinkypinky
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Puella means girl, afaik.
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22-03-2020, 23:54   #4
coolshannagh28
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The legible words are girl , man and father in English
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23-03-2020, 11:23   #5
Earnest
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??? by/from a/the girl (but ??? ???) of men by name? ??? father. I suspect it is saying something about what people are saying about the parentage or alleged parentage. As you note, the father's name is lacking.

Last edited by Earnest; 23-03-2020 at 11:24. Reason: second thoughts
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23-03-2020, 11:41   #6
Wyldwood
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My best guess
?? by the girl (but denied by the husband/man) the man's name is not the father.
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23-03-2020, 12:05   #7
pinkypinky
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Wow!
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23-03-2020, 12:37   #8
pinkypinky
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An offline friend suggests that puella could be referencing the mother or the baby girl - this slightly changes it.
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23-03-2020, 13:09   #9
Wyldwood
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Thinking about it again, and depending on the word under the splodge on the bottom line, maybe she is saying he is the father and he's denying it?

a puella could be from the mother or child but more likely the mother since I don't think the baby would be giving much inormation .

the bit in brackets is 'but denied by the husband/man'

esse patrem is 'to be the father'

hominem nominem is basically 'the man named'

My latin is very rusty so someone else might come on board with a better translation
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23-03-2020, 14:13   #10
pinkypinky
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Thanks, I appreciate all possibilities. And it's a pain that there's a splotch on the page. Presumably that is there in the original too.
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23-03-2020, 16:56   #11
Hermy
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Looking at the Ancestry copy of that image it's just possible that what's behind the splodge may be legible on the original register.
Attached Images
File Type: png ancestry.png (499.5 KB, 25 views)
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23-03-2020, 17:39   #12
pinkypinky
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Hmm, the Ancestry copy should be identical to the National Library's...

I'll give the church a call though. It's worth checking.
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23-03-2020, 18:15   #13
spurious
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It can't have been the only instance of it and it's probably a standard phrase they use to record it. I would scan through a few years records and see does any other baptism have a similar note.
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23-03-2020, 18:15   #14
Hermy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkypinky View Post
Hmm, the Ancestry copy should be identical to the National Library's...
Indeed! Same image, same info - just slightly different in appearance.

With entries that are hard to read I check both (or the Irish Genealogy copies) just in case one reveals a tad more than the other.
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23-03-2020, 19:18   #15
pinkypinky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurious View Post
It can't have been the only instance of it and it's probably a standard phrase they use to record it. I would scan through a few years records and see does any other baptism have a similar note.
I'm trying this...

Unfortunately whoever transcribed this on Rootsireland didn't bother with the comments section.
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