Anyone in Ireland that can speak Irish only?

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 15-08-2020 2:09pm

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Why give up on a thousand years of awesome poetry, song, story, dance, sport, jokes, music, satire, history, heritage, craic and conversation because of a rare bad experience with a snob?

Actually I do believe it, I've witnessed the arrogance of fluent Irish speakers first hand... they think they're more Irish than other people just because they speak the dead/dying language of our ancestors... which is horsesh!t really.

You don't have to speak Irish to be connected to your culture or history. If that were actually true, then Italians would have no culture because they don't speak latin anymore or any other language that went out of fashion...

Irish speakers just hang onto this "cultural significance" mantra, because they can't think of any other legitimate criteria when trying to convince people to keep the language alive... they know they can't appeal to people to use the language for practical day-to-day use... so they try to pull on people's heart strings about "identity" "culture" "Irishness" etc etc...

But it's a load of BS... Our culture and our "Irishness" is not dependent on the Irish language... Our culture and history exists, whether we keep the Irish language alive or not.

If you bring some tourists around and tell them about different aspects of Irish history and culture, sure you might throw a few Irish words in to impress them... but the most important language you need to actually converse with them, is english.... not Irish!

The few Irish words are just a nice little party trick. Like being able to juggle or walk on your hands... it might impress a few people, but basically it's not really essential at all.

I'm not suggesting we should throw Irish in the bin and forget about it... all I'm saying is that people should stop pushing it on people, or brow beating people into speaking it so they can be "more Irish"...

And stop throwing tax money down the drain by forcing kids to learn it... if people want to learn it of their own accord and develop a love for it themselves, I've no problem with that at all... good luck to those people.

(And don't even get me started on the GIANT waste of money needed to print every official document/road sign in both Irish and English - when most Irish speakers are also fluent in English :mad:)

We need to stop this charade of pretending that Irish is on a level footing with English in terms of its national importance to most of the people on this Island... because most people know that this is complete cobblers if they are being honest!

anplaya27 · 15-08-2020 2:09pm

For a different take on the question, I'm a native Irish Sign Language user, like most of the Deaf community.

Our language was recognised as an official language in legislation in 2017.

Spoken English and spoken Irish would be very much second languages for the majority of the community.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 2:11pm

anplaya27 wrote: »

For a different take on the question, I'm a native Irish Sign Language user, like most of the Deaf community.

Our language was recognised as an official language in legislation in 2017.

Spoken English and spoken Irish would be very much second languages for the majority of the community.

Im actually embarrassed i have no sign language. I think they should make Irish students learn it for one year.

Its not like you can learn to hear us is it?

Upforthematch · 15-08-2020 2:11pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

English is a global ocean. Irish is a glass of water. Its hard to immerse yourself in a glass. If there were more films etc. More books more tv.
Its interesting though and Irish has a lot of interesting features like declension etc.

When you learn major languages ..like french or russian or italian ...a world opens up. All the films you can now understand or songs you know books you can read.

I disagree - it is very easy to immerse yourself in an irish pint of plain.

In the last 10 years, those cultural aspects of Irish language (tv, music & books) have opened up more to learners than in the past.

There is *plenty* of interesting tv and books out there in Irish. Go to the tg4 archive or a website like litriocht.com if you don't believe me.

The one area seriously lacking is film. This is disappointing because there is no shortage of Irish language theatre talent out there, even it that was recorded it would be a start.

Insect Overlord · 15-08-2020 2:19pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Actually I do believe it, I've witnessed the arrogance of fluent Irish speakers first hand... they think they're more Irish than other people just because they speak the dead/dying language of our ancestors... which is horsesh!t really.

Okay then, that's unfortunately been your experience. But Cultural Nationalism is a complicated part of Irish history, in both Irish and English. And, of course, some people are just dicks. I just wish you didn't think that every single Gaeilgeoir in the country was the very same.

Some love the Aisling poems of the 16th and 17th centuries. Some love the Blasket autobiographies or the Fionn and the Fianna stuff, or the Ruairíocht stories further north, or the poetry of Nuala Ní Dhomhnall. Most of them are just regular people who watch the Premier League and Netflix and listen to Spotify, who don't get too bogged down about holding onto the past at all.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 2:27pm

Upforthematch wrote: »

In the last 10 years, those cultural aspects of Irish language (tv, music & books) have opened up more to learners than in the past.

There is *plenty* of interesting tv and books out there in Irish. Go to the tg4 archive or a website like litriocht.com if you don't believe me.

The one area seriously lacking is film. This is disappointing because there is no shortage of Irish language theatre talent out there, even it that was recorded it would be a start.

I don't believe you. Because i have searched.

I respect what you are saying. But I think you have to understand ..i can watch a video in spanish on anything I want. I can watch exercise classes. I can watch Rene Lavand do magic tricks! I can watch films. I can watch muas. I can watch comedies. I can watch videos on mathematics or philosophy! Politics comedy. Film etc.

This is flipping hilar!

I can listen to pop songs in spanish. I read any book i want to read ..in spanish.

There are now added topics that don't get discussed much in the Anglophone world.

I do think the state needs to start sponsoring youtubers to do irish channels. Because they don't get enough views to make it profitable to make vids in Irish really. But its a small world.

https://www.litriocht.com/?term=&s=terry+pratchet&post_type=product&taxonomy=product_cat

The above site doesn't have my fav author Terry Pratchet for example. But I am reading Witches Abroad /Brujas De Viaje right now in spanish.

I know i shouldn't expect a minority language to have the same resources as one spoken by 350 million speakers but its one of the best things about learning a language.

15-08-2020 2:29pm

I think nintendo or one of those sites has a totally irish version of the website as well. Couldn't get over it when i saw it

Bannasidhe · 15-08-2020 2:30pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He would be unusual.

Also I know switzerland ...he didn't need french or German ..and he wouldn't speak their german anyway. People from Germany can't understand swiss german.

I could say my brother is using his lc french in brussels right now. But it wouldn't be true ..they all speak English.

My godfathers brother lives in switzerland ..he is actually from the gaeltact and did lc german. He had to learn from scratch over there though ..it took a few years but he has fluent french and high german now. He has been there over 20 yrs though. But they all speak English at a very high level.

And although he has high German ..he still can't speak swiss german. So sometimes in some towns he would still be lost if they don't swtich for him. Swiss German is very diff.

Working for a multinational company in Basel High German was what he needed, he also learned Basel Deutsche while he was there. He was one of a group of Irish people working there so not that unusual.

He then transferred to Geneva where his knowledge of French was absolutely necessary.
Everyone in Switzerland does not speak English. I lived in a small town named Nyon for a year and survived only because thanks to my LC French I had the basics and learned as I went along. I still speak French with a Swiss accent.

As for this suggestion that if they speak English a person need not learn the language of the country they live and work in - how very English a world view that is - if the silly natives don't know enough English should one enunciate loudly at them?

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 2:31pm

bluewolf wrote: »

I think nintendo or one of those sites has a totally irish version of the website as well. Couldn't get over it when i saw it

That's a brilliant idea!

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 2:33pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Working for a multinational company in Basel High German was what he needed, he also learned Basel Deutsche while he was there. He was one of a group of Irish people working there so not that unusual.

He then transferred to Geneva where his knowledge of French was absolutely necessary.
Everyone in Switzerland does not speak English. I lived in a small town named Nyon for a year and survived only because thanks to my LC French I had the basics and learned as I went along. I still speak French with a Swiss accent.

As for this suggestion that if they speak English a person need not learn the language of the country they live and work in - how very English a world view that is - if the silly natives don't know enough English should one enunciate loudly at them?

Im sorry with all due respect. I don't believe his LC gave him the necessary level of any language.

Insect Overlord · 15-08-2020 2:37pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The above site doesn't have my fav author Terry Pratchet for example. But I am reading Witches Abroad /Brujas De Viaje right now in spanish.

I know i shouldn't expect a minority language to have the same resources as one spoken by 350 million speakers but its one of the best things about learning a language.

It seems you're suggesting that Irish has a problem, not due to a lack of books or authors, but because there aren't enough translations of books from English. An Gúm ran a translation project in the 1920s and 30s. It was a bit of a disaster. They were extremely conservative, and some of the best and brightest writers of the generation nearly went mad working there. While there's always an appetite for translations of best-sellers, I'd say it's less important than encouraging original works.

Upforthematch · 15-08-2020 2:38pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't believe you. Because i have searched.

I respect what you are saying. But I think you have to understand ..i can watch a video in spanish on anything I want. I can watch exercise classes. I can watch Rene Lavand do magic tricks! I can watch films. I can watch muas. I can watch comedies. I can watch videos on mathematics or philosophy! Politics comedy. Film etc.

I can listen to pop songs in spanish. I read any book i want to read ..in spanish.

There are now added topics that don't get discussed much in the Anglophone world.

I do think the state needs to start sponsoring youtubers to do irish channels. Because they don't get enough views to make it profitable to make vids in Irish really. But its a small world.

https://www.litriocht.com/?term=&s=terry+pratchet&post_type=product&taxonomy=product_cat

The above site doesn't have my fav author Terry Pratchet for example. But I am reading Witches Abroad /Brujas De Viaje right now in spanish.

I know i shouldn't expect a minority language to have the same resources as one spoken by 350 million speakers but its one of the best things about learning a language.

I hear what you are saying and the caveat about Irish being a minority language. I love your suggestion about paid Irish language youtubers. Now there's an idea.

No, Irish is not a 'global' language like Irish or Spanish, but just as an experiment I did a quick search and can't see any Terry Pratchet translated into Swedish, a language with 10m speakers!

https://www.bokus.com/cgi-bin/product_search.cgi?ac_used=yes&search_word=terry+pratchett

Lots of English to Irish translations have been done, but my focus is on genuine Irish language material instead of second hand content.

There is plenty out there to enjoy.

Fuascailteoir · 15-08-2020 2:42pm

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

Issues I have with Irish is its use of religious terminology in their greetings, and the genderized surnames.

My children go to a Gaelscoil and I told them to use “hello” instead of Dia Dhuit and to use whichever version of their surname they are more comfortable with instead of following the outdated Ó/Ní format for boys and girls respectively.

I also told them to just ignore whatever their teacher says about the “rules” and pronunciation and all that rubbish and just talk to each other. They’re never going to learn how to speak if they’re learning grammar!

Most gaelscoils use haigh

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 2:43pm

Upforthematch wrote: »

I hear what you are saying and the caveat about Irish being a minority language. I love your suggestion about paid Irish language youtubers. Now there's an idea.

No, Irish is not a 'global' language like Irish or Spanish, but just as an experiment and did a quick search and can't see any Terry Pratchet translated into Swedish, a language with 10m speakers!

https://www.bokus.com/cgi-bin/product_search.cgi?ac_used=yes&search_word=terry+pratchett

Lots of English to Irish translations have been done, but my focus is on genuine Irish language material instead of second hand content.

There is plenty out there to enjoy.

It's lucky i have spanish then :P

Poor swedes ..I guess its why they learn English!

Yeah ...I think the state should sponsor a channel or something ..but give the creator freedom to create what they wish to. Normal youtube things. Make up or challenges etc.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 2:58pm

If i were a rich person ..i would move around diff countries learning diff languages ..but at least i have books and youtube for now!

I do want to live in spain for a bit though. I lived there before ..its amazing to me how much language changes ...you hear things now like estoy 'super' cansada and 'xonis'

Bannasidhe · 15-08-2020 3:04pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Im sorry with all due respect. I don't believe his LC gave him the necessary level of any language.

With respect I don't give a fig what you believe.

No one claimed learning a language ends at the LC.

His honours level LC in German and French gave him enough working knowledge to start working in Switzerland aged 19 - he obviously increased his knowledge of both languages building on the foundation he already had.
5 other Irish people started at the same time as he did - they all have enough of a foundation in French and German due to their LC.

He is now also fluent in Italian, has excellent spoken Spanish and Portuguese but feels his literacy is not good enough to qualify as fluent.
He never returned to live in Ireland so tbh his English is heavily accented and a bit hesitant now.
His Irish, however, is still perfect - thanks to TG4.

There are people working across Europe, including in various high level E.U. roles, whose knowledge of French in particular earned while doing the LC gave them the required basics.

It is possible to leave school with a good working knowledge of French/German. Thousands have done it.

I would agree with posters here who feel the way Irish is taught needs a radical overhaul. Not enough emphasis is placed on conversation.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 3:09pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

With respect I don't give a fig what you believe.

No one claimed learning a language ends at the LC.

His honours level LC in German and French gave him enough working knowledge to start working in Switzerland aged 19 - he obviously increased his knowledge of both languages building on the foundation he already had.
5 other Irish people started at the same time as he did - they all have enough of a foundation in French and German due to their LC.

He is now also fluent in Italian, has excellent spoken Spanish and Portuguese but feels his literacy is not good enough to qualify as fluent.
He never returned to live in Ireland so tbh his English is heavily accented and a bit hesitant now.
His Irish, however, is still perfect - thanks to TG4.

There are people working across Europe, including in various high level E.U. roles, whose knowledge of French in particular earned while doing the LC gave them the required basics.

It is possible to leave school with a good working knowledge of French/German. Thousands have done it.

I would agree with posters here who feel the way Irish is taught needs a radical overhaul. Not enough emphasis is placed on conversation.

I am extremely skeptical.

According to you he speaks 7 languages.

As regards Irish...language learning is hard. It requires dedication and motivation. And at least a few years of immersion. No teacher is going to spoon feed it into you. But bad teachers can really waste your time.

Insect Overlord · 15-08-2020 3:15pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am extremely skeptical.

According to you he speaks 7 languages.

It's not as rare as some would expect.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_polyglots

paul71 · 15-08-2020 3:15pm

I have not read the entire thread, but I did once watch a youtube of an interview with a man who was claimed to be the last non English speaker. It was in the 50s or 60s and he was probably 60 at the time.

I suspect that today the only ones who cannot speak English are under 5 in Irish speaking households who have not yet started speaking English but will.

I also have a couple of ancedots, my mother was a nurse in Navan hospital in the 60s and 70s and did say that there were sometimes elderly patients from Rathcairn and Gibbstown who as a result of dementia had forgotten how to speak English, I came accross an elderly man lost on one occasion myself who had a similar issue.

In conclusion I would say the only monolingual Irish speakers are young children who have started to learn English yet or the old who have forgotten how to speak it.

paul71 · 15-08-2020 3:16pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am extremely skeptical.

According to you he speaks 7 languages.

As regards Irish...language learning is hard. It requires dedication and motivation. And at least a few years of immersion. No teacher is going to spoon feed it into you. But bad teachers can really waste your time.

No learning a language is not difficult.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 3:27pm

paul71 wrote: »

No learning a language is not difficult.

As someone who had to compete in a class in school with native speakers in their native language. Yes it is. It's enjoyable at times. But if you want to do it well. Its not always going to be easy.

Or maybe for YOU because you are a genius it is. But i am just a normal average dummie!

Its grammar drills. And more grammar drills. Its intensive vrs extensive listening. Its intensive vrs extensive reading. Its writing. Its tenses. Its vocab. Its expressive vrs receptive vocab. Its grammar. Its idioms. Its speaking.

Yes its singing songs and dancing and just talking and listening etc.

But yes it has its difficulties for most people.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 3:30pm

anplaya27 wrote: »

Its actually called Irish Sign Language as its native to Ireland. It's a language not only of the hands, but the body and face.

All native sign languages worldwide are different. They have regional variations and accents etc too. They are evolving languages, just like spoken ones.

Would take longer than a year to be fluent. For example, the interpreters you see on tv spend 4 years in trinity colleges school of linguistics learning and then have to shadow for a while before they can attempt to interpret by themselves. They are immersed in not only Irish sign language, but Deaf culture, identity, history, traditions etc.

Yes. I understand it would take a long time to be fluent. I wouldn't expect anyone to be fluent in a language in a year.

But as an introduction really.

Bannasidhe · 15-08-2020 3:42pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am extremely skeptical.

According to you he speaks 7 languages.

As regards Irish...language learning is hard. It requires dedication and motivation. And at least a few years of immersion. No teacher is going to spoon feed it into you. But bad teachers can really waste your time.

Yes. It's not uncommon on the Continent. Particularly when you grew up speaking two (English and Irish), moved from an area that speaks a specific dialect (Basel Deutsche) to live in an area that speaks a third official language (French), work in an area that speaks a fourth (Italian), have a mother-in-law who only speaks a fifth (High German), adopt a child who only spoke a sixth (Portuguese) and once you get into the habit of learning languages and in the course of your business deal with people across Europe it becomes a no brainer to continue to learn. He drew the line at Dutch however.

One of his daughters speaks 9, but she is Swiss educated.

Just because you appear to have difficulty conceiving of people being polyglots as you live on a fairly monoglot island you really shouldn't extrapolate that to mean people who live surrounded by different languages don't learn many languages.

Anyway, I don't care what you believe.

My brother is a ployglot who began his study of languages while in school in Ireland.
He credits doing his LC through Irish with helping him get to grips with studying various languages.

Whether or not some stranger on the internet is sceptical makes no difference. He is happily fluent in many languages and you are not.
I am not either but I can get by in French and Irish.

feargale · 15-08-2020 3:57pm

I met a few in Galway in the 1970s. As another poster has said, it is believed that the last monolingual died in 1998.
My wife shared accomodation with two sisters from a Munster Gaeltacht in the 1970s and one day they told her that their mother was doing very well with English since she got the television. That was what finished monlingualism, Mr. Ed and The Riordans.
The only possibility now, a very vague one, is that there is some mentally handicapped person out there who was born with Irish and didn't have the capacity to learn a second language. That was the case with the Slovene-language minority in Austria, but I would think that regarding Irish even that scenario is past its sell-by date.

P.S. I've now read the whole thread and I see what people have written about Alzheimers. Point taken. Interesting.

riclad · 15-08-2020 4:07pm

everyone speaks english in ireland,
How many people leave school who can speak irish fluently, maybe a few per cent.
i have never met anyone who speaks irish as part of their daily life, going to the shop,s , going to work etc
lets say you learn french or spanish in school, it might help you get a job
with a company like facebook or google.
You might actuually use the language as part of the job.
irish is like the horse and carriage in 2020,
people drive cars and use a bus or the luas.
Young people know irish has a very limited use in modern life.
its nice to be able to speak irish,
i think its like playing the fiddle or the bodhran.
For most people it has very limited value in real life.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 4:08pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Yes. It's not uncommon on the Continent. Particularly when you grew up speaking two (English and Irish), moved from an area that speaks a specific dialect (Basel Deutsche) to live in an area that speaks a third official language (French), work in an area that speaks a fourth (Italian), have a mother-in-law who only speaks a fifth (High German), adopt a child who only spoke a sixth (Portuguese) and once you get into the habit of learning languages and in the course of your business deal with people across Europe it becomes a no brainer to continue to learn. He drew the line at Dutch however.

One of his daughters speaks 9, but she is Swiss educated.

Just because you appear to have difficulty conceiving of people being polyglots as you live on a fairly monoglot island you really shouldn't extrapolate that to mean people who live surrounded by different languages don't learn many languages.

Anyway, I don't care what you believe.

My brother is a ployglot who began his study of languages while in school in Ireland.
He credits doing his LC through Irish with helping him get to grips with studying various languages.

Whether or not some stranger on the internet is sceptical makes no difference. He is happily fluent in many languages and you are not.
I am not either but I can get by in French and Irish.

He just seems a bit of a 'benny lewis' that's all.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 15-08-2020 4:09pm

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Okay then, that's unfortunately been your experience. But Cultural Nationalism is a complicated part of Irish history, in both Irish and English. And, of course, some people are just dicks. I just wish you didn't think that every single Gaeilgeoir in the country was the very same.

Some love the Aisling poems of the 16th and 17th centuries. Some love the Blasket autobiographies or the Fionn and the Fianna stuff, or the Ruairíocht stories further north, or the poetry of Nuala Ní Dhomhnall. Most of them are just regular people who watch the Premier League and Netflix and listen to Spotify, who don't get too bogged down about holding onto the past at all.

4% of our population speaks Irish on a daily basis.

There were more people speaking Polish at one point on this Island than Irish.

Yet every road sign, every official document has to be double printed in this ancient dead/dying language - just to keep these zealots happy. And it gets forced down kids throats in school...

If it's such a great and vital language, then why force it on people? Why not let it stand on its own merits and see what happens?

You guys are terrified to let the language stand on its own two feet... because you know damn well what would happen. Most people would move on and leave the language where it belongs, in the history books, in library books... just like other languages that fell out of use.

Life moves on - and so do languages. Irish is being kept on life support for far too long now.

Most people are thinking these things, but don't want to be the one's to say it... because they'll get accused of being unpatriotic.

I couldn't give a toss if central europeans can speak 20 languages. Speaking multiple languages does not prove you are smarter than anyone else - some people just have a knack for picking up languages.

It's far more important to master one language, rather than being average at 5 or 6... and ultimately the future of this world will require one world language to develop, otherwise we will never really achieve any kind of global unity as a species.

At the end of the day, language is mostly just a tool for communication. The cultural significance of language is massively exaggerated by many people.

Culture does not exist because of a specific language... it is actually the opposite way around, our languages develop out of our culture. But those languages evolve and change, as we evolve and change throughout history.

Irish has simply been left behind, and replaced by another language that is much more useful and pragmatic for our people in everyday life.

khalessi · 15-08-2020 4:12pm

riclad wrote: »

everyone speaks english in ireland,
How many people leave school who can speak irish fluently, maybe a few per cent.
i have never met anyone who speaks irish as part of their daily life, going to the shop,s , going to work etc
lets say you learn french or spanish in school, it might help you get a job
with a company like facebook or google.
You might actuually use the language as part of the job.
irish is like the horse and carriage in 2020,
people drive cars and use a bus or the luas.
Young people know irish has a very limited use in modern life.
its nice to be able to speak irish,
i think its like playing the fiddle or the bodhran.
For most people it has very limited value in real life.

There are more people than you know who speak Irish,

The total number of persons (aged 3 and over) who could speak Irish in April 2016 was 1,761,420, representing 39.8 per cent of the population. This is a decrease of 13,017 on the 2011 figure of 1,774,437. More females than males identified themselves as being able to speak Irish with 968,777 female speakers (55%) compared with 792,643 males (45%), a pattern repeated from previous censuses (excluding not stated).

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp10esil/p10esil/ilg/

All those people were happy to say they spoke Irish on a government document. I use Irish daily when shopping in Lidl and talking to my kids because I love the sound of the language.

Bannasidhe · 15-08-2020 4:13pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He just seems a bit of a 'benny lewis' that's all.

If by that you mean a wealthy and successful businessman then yes he is.
All due to hard work and being able to converse with clients in their native language - including in the Gaelteacht.
He's also a bit 'Swiss' which just proves all silver linings have a cloud. :P

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 4:18pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If by that you mean a wealthy and successful businessman then yes he is.
All due to hard work and being able to converse with clients in their native language - including in the Gaelteacht.
He's also a bit 'Swiss' which just proves all silver linings have a cloud. :P

Benny Lewis is a guy who swears he has fluent spanish but can't barely put a sentence together.

Insect Overlord · 15-08-2020 4:38pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

You guys are terrified to let the language stand on its own two feet... because you know damn well what would happen.

I get the impression you haven't read my replies to you, and are really just here to vent. Let me know if you're planning on responding to the points that I actually posted.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 15-08-2020 4:51pm

Insect Overlord wrote: »

I get the impression you haven't read my replies to you, and are really just here to vent. Let me know if you're planning on responding to the points that I actually posted.

I could say the very same to you...

But we both know, there is very little comeback to some of the points I've made... so I don't blame you for sidestepping them.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 4:53pm

khalessi wrote: »

All those people were happy to say they spoke Irish on a government document. .

Yes but ...we know they don't.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 4:54pm

Goddamit ....i've lost my routledge spanish grammar book now!

Insect Overlord · 15-08-2020 5:12pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

I could say the very same to you...

But we both know, there is very little comeback to some of the points I've made... so I don't blame you for sidestepping them.

I'm pretty sure there an anti-Irish bingo card meme online, and all you've done in your rants is rattle off the same clichés that get trotted out every time someone mentions Gaeilge on After Hours. At least try to offer something original if you're looking for an argument.

paul71 · 15-08-2020 5:16pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

As someone who had to compete in a class in school with native speakers in their native language. Yes it is. It's enjoyable at times. But if you want to do it well. Its not always going to be easy.

Or maybe for YOU because you are a genius it is. But i am just a normal average dummie!

Its grammar drills. And more grammar drills. Its intensive vrs extensive listening. Its intensive vrs extensive reading. Its writing. Its tenses. Its vocab. Its expressive vrs receptive vocab. Its grammar. Its idioms. Its speaking.

Yes its singing songs and dancing and just talking and listening etc.

But yes it has its difficulties for most people.

You dont need to be a genius, in fact I have met quite a few profoundly stupid, multilinguists. Fact 54% of people in Europe are Bilingual, 14% speak 3, 2% speak 3 or more. So the majority of people have no problem learning 2 languages. 2% or 1 in 50 speak 3 or more, that is too large a number to be difficult.

I am no genius and I learnt my 5th language at the age of 40.

feargale · 15-08-2020 5:39pm

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

It’s very simple. “Ní maith” means “don’t like.”

Ó Mannion - “From Mannion”

Ní Mannion - “Not (really) Mannion”

The official story is that “Ní” is just the female version in this case but I find it difficult to believe they simply took a negative word to use it as a positive prefix, referring to women, without thinking about it.

Ní is an abbreviation of iníon.

feargale · 15-08-2020 5:44pm

KevRossi wrote: »

The last monoglot Irish speaker in Co. Dublin was recorded in the 1831 census in Glenasmole (past Bohernabreena). Her family descendants still live there.

And the last person with native Dublin Irish, (not a monoglot) is said to have died in Kimmage in the 1930s, a native of the same area, one of the glens, probably Glenasmole itself.

paul71 · 15-08-2020 5:50pm

feargale wrote: »

And the last person with native Dublin Irish, (not a monoglot) is said to have died in Kimmage in the 1930s, a native of the same area, one of the glens, probably Glenasmole itself.

I remember a teacher in primary school stating that Irish had not been spoken in Leinster since the 12th century, I knew he was wrong but at the age of 8 I did not have the courage to call his bull****.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 5:51pm

paul71 wrote: »

You dont need to be a genius, in fact I have met quite a few profoundly stupid, multilinguists. Fact 54% of people in Europe are Bilingual, 14% speak 3, 2% speak 3 or more. So the majority of people have no problem learning 2 languages. 2% or 1 in 50 speak 3 or more, that is too large a number to be difficult.

I am no genius and I learnt my 5th language at the age of 40.

Si hablas espanol puedo practicar contigo?

Upforthematch · 15-08-2020 6:01pm

riclad wrote: »

irish is like the horse and carriage in 2020,
people drive cars and use a bus or the luas.
Young people know irish has a very limited use in modern life.
its nice to be able to speak irish,
i think its like playing the fiddle or the bodhran.

No, that is the argument of 1900.

It was not considered the language of "progress", of "young people" in 1900.

There are in fact many, many more opportunities for someone with Irish today than there was in 1900, believe it or not.

This development would have been unthinkable to both everyday Irish and English speakers in 1900, (as would 1916 etc... but sin scéal eile)

Now, a minority language is never going to be an employment panacea, however one can genuinely work with Irish in several fields (particularly education and media) and not only fields directly paid for by the state. (Although most are paid by the state).

So Irish is still there and thankfully will be for some time to come!

paul71 · 15-08-2020 6:03pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Si hablas espanol puedo practicar contigo?

Ne, ale mluvím česky jako opilý námořník.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 6:04pm

paul71 wrote: »

Ne, ale mluvím česky jako opilý námořník.

No, but I speak Czech like a drunk sailor.

Damn its proving hard to find native spanish speakers in dublin.:mad:

Nice czech tho.

CelticRambler · 15-08-2020 6:06pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Im sorry with all due respect. I don't believe his LC gave him the necessary level of any language.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am extremely skeptical.

According to you he speaks 7 languages.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its grammar drills. And more grammar drills. Its intensive vrs extensive listening. Its intensive vrs extensive reading. Its writing. Its tenses. Its vocab. Its expressive vrs receptive vocab. Its grammar. Its idioms. Its speaking.

Yes its singing songs and dancing and just talking and listening etc.

In fact, for the vast majority of humanity, "learning a language" is only the last bit - singing songs and dancing and just talking and listening etc. That's exactly how children learn, and they're usually pretty fluent in the basics of grammar by the age of about seven. After that, any "improvement" in language skills is essentially nothing more than increasing your vocabulary.

You might be sceptical about the abilities of friends of other posters, but I can tell you from first-hand experience, that I came to France fifteen years ago with nothing more than the French for which I'd got a B in the Leaving Cert more than ten years previously. I have never been to any top-up classes, and yet I can work, rest and play with the French without any problem.

I also spent one single year learning German at first-year secondary school level, way back in 1980. That's enough for me to be able to explain to Germans in German (or Swiss in German, for that matter) how to dance French traditional dances. And no, that's not a hypothetical situation - my work takes me to the Franco-Swiss-German triangle, where I like to spend my weekends trad-dancing with the natives, some of whom have never been to such an event before. It does not take much learning to be able to give instructions, nor to engage in small talk. Ditto for Italian.

And arising from an embarrassing incident, when I was given a microphone, asked to "speak Irish" and failed (more due to the pressure of an unexpected spotlight than a lack of vocab, but still ...) I've made a conscious effort to listen frequently to Radio na Gaeltachta, to keep my ear attuned to the rhythms and some useful words and phrases in an accessible part of my brain.

FWIW, I had two Bretons stay with me this week, and it became a running joke that they had to communicate between them in reviled French and English because they guy from North Brittany couldn't understand the guy from South Brittany when they spoke Breton - a language that suffered exactly the same fate as Irish at the hands of the colonial powers.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 6:07pm

I need a spanish speaking boyfriend for like a year or two! Just to get my fluency up!

FREE SEX FOR SPANISH LESSONS!

paul71 · 15-08-2020 6:11pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Damn its proving hard to find native spanish speakers in dublin.:mad:

Nice czech tho.

It was the only language I learnt without being taught. (other than Irish or English) while the the grammar, vocab is vastly different to my other languages the fact that I speak Irish was a huge advantage in terms of pronouncing certain things. This is an advantage we are casting aside by not embracing bilingualism in Ireland.

Learning a 3rd language is vastly easier then learning a second and we have the perfect vehicle to that in a language that is in a separate group to the Germanic languages.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 15-08-2020 6:12pm

Insect Overlord wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there an anti-Irish bingo card meme online, and all you've done in your rants is rattle off the same clichés that get trotted out every time someone mentions Gaeilge on After Hours. At least try to offer something original if you're looking for an argument.

So you want me to come up with some exciting new points, just because you're bored with the same old reliables? :rolleyes:

No... I think I'll stick to the same old reliable battle tested arguments. Because they're strong points. (Clearly very strong, as you've made no attempt at a rebuttal)

If you're bored that's your problem. I'm not your dancing monkey... go entertain yourself!

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 6:13pm

paul71 wrote: »

It was the only language I learnt without being taught. (other than Irish or English) while the the grammar, vocab is vastly different to my other languages the fact that I speak Irish was a huge advantage in terms of pronouncing certain things. This is an advantage we are casting aside by not embracing bilingualism in Ireland.

Learning a 3rd language is vastly easier then learning a second and we have the perfect vehicle to that in a language that is in a separate group to the Germanic languages.

True

Bannasidhe · 15-08-2020 7:03pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Benny Lewis is a guy who swears he has fluent spanish but can't barely put a sentence together.

Rather like people who claim to be fluent in English?

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 7:05pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Rather like people who claim to be fluent in English?

Yes it actually happens.

Anyone in Ireland that can speak Irish only?

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