€10,000 for a new apartment/house

HouseHunting · 01-06-2010 11:27am #1

Does anyone think a developer would accept a €10,000 for a new apartment?? I'm sure they want to move them and ten grand is better than nothing.

bugler · 01-06-2010 11:40am

Probably not right now. If/when proper firesales start then it's a possibility, but I wouldn't expect it to be in a sought-after location! If you want to live in Leitrim you could be in luck.

As soon as we get to stage where business is actually being done and sellers (be they banks, liquidators etc) are making hardnosed decisions then anything is possible. For now though we are stagnant, a situation that has been fostered by political sentiment and continuing delusion.

D3PO · 01-06-2010 11:56am

HouseHunting wrote: »

Does anyone think a developer would accept a €10,000 for a new apartment?? I'm sure they want to move them and ten grand is better than nothing.

this is just silly talk now :rolleyes: A develooper is not going to do this. Hes going to rent out the apartments well before doing this.

ok we hit a bubble and are adjusting but lets not be rediculous on where things will actually fall to.

D3PO · 01-06-2010 11:58am

bugler wrote: »

Probably not right now. If/when proper firesales start then it's a possibility, but I wouldn't expect it to be in a sought-after location! If you want to live in Leitrim you could be in luck.

As soon as we get to stage where business is actually being done and sellers (be they banks, liquidators etc) are making hardnosed decisions then anything is possible. For now though we are stagnant, a situation that has been fostered by political sentiment and continuing delusion.

tehy might go low but even in the arse end of nowhere this isnt gonna happen.

EA fees, legal fees, cost of fixing snag list etc are gonna add up. It wouldnt make any sense to sell even in an estate that will never sell for that price.

HouseHunting · 01-06-2010 12:27pm

Ok maybe 10,000 was a little low as an estimate, but as a first time buyer I'm very wary of going near anywhere at the moment especially new apartments. I keep hearing a lot of talk that these apartment blocks are going to end up as affordable housing or knocked down or end up in some kind of inner city slum. This is why I would not pay anything near the asking price for some of these places. But the thing is, if a developer offered these places at realistic prices they would be snapped up. I find that people of my age group (mid 20's) are looking to buy but all the horror stories and ridiculous prices are holding us back.

D3PO · 01-06-2010 1:14pm

just bide your time. Your right to be cautious in terms of valuation a good measure of the real worth is working off a yield value.

get detail on the average rental value in an area for the type of accom you want then multiply by 14.2. That should give you a fair idea of what the real "value" of the house is.

bugler · 01-06-2010 1:22pm

D3PO wrote: »

tehy might go low but even in the arse end of nowhere this isnt gonna happen.

EA fees, legal fees, cost of fixing snag list etc are gonna add up. It wouldnt make any sense to sell even in an estate that will never sell for that price.

All I hear is "just because". There are properties around the country for sub €50k. Some of them are three bed houses in areas with "social issues". Some of them are cute little rural cottages that need some TLC. But they're there. And if there is little demand for a property, then its price must fall.

Consider the below: http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=533223

I don't believe we're anywhere near the end of this crash. If this doesn't sell for €50k what would be your outlook on the future prices of Leitrim/Roscommon shoebox apartments? Will they never get near 10k just because?

D3PO · 01-06-2010 1:30pm

bugler wrote: »

what would be your outlook on the future prices of Leitrim/Roscommon shoebox apartments? Will they never get near 10k just because?

simply put they will be knocked down. Developers wont sell for 10k or under for the reasons I outlined. By the time they snagged, payed legal fees, ea fees etc there would be SFA left.

Much more likely proposion is they default on their bank loans, NAMA ends up with the properties and either rents the property or flattens them.

Remember a 7% yield on 10k is less than 60 quid a month rent needed. The financials say 10k isnt a realistic propostion for any property.

D3PO · 01-06-2010 1:33pm

bugler wrote: »

Consider the below: http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=533223

apples with apples please.

1) 50k and 10k big difference.

2) in need of refurbishment and modernisation. Probably needs rewiring, insulation, central heating, replastering and god knows what else. How much will that run to ?

If the OP said will you be able to buy an empty shell for 10k thats a different story altogether, but thats not what was asked.

Zamboni · 01-06-2010 1:37pm

D3PO wrote: »

simply put they will be knocked down. Developers wont sell for 10k or under for the reasons I outlined. By the time they snagged, payed legal fees, ea fees etc there would be SFA left.

Much more likely proposion is they default on their bank loans, NAMA ends up with the properties and either rents the property or flattens them.

Could you see another option where Nama gets stuck with them and just does a firesale for whatever the market will take them at?

bugler · 01-06-2010 1:53pm

D3PO wrote: »

apples with apples please.

1) 50k and 10k big difference.

2) in need of refurbishment and modernisation. Probably needs rewiring, insulation, central heating, replastering and god knows what else. How much will that run to ?

If the OP said will you be able to buy an empty shell for 10k thats a different story altogether, but thats not what was asked.

1. Is it? In the context of the Irish housing market?

2. You don't know that, nor do I. I would accept some work needs to be done.

However, and on your apples with apples note, that wasn't the point. I did not say the OP was interested in a shell. I referred to the above link as an example of a house in rural Ireland in an area with masses of apartments and no market for them. The price of that house affects the prices of the apartments, whether you, or developers, like it or not. I don't know if you misinterpreted this wilfully or unintentionally, but there it is.

As an aside, I was wondering how much demolition and clean up of an apartment complex would cost. D3PO?

D3PO · 01-06-2010 2:24pm

bugler wrote: »

1. Is it? In the context of the Irish housing market?

2. You don't know that, nor do I. I would accept some work needs to be done.

However, and on your apples with apples note, that wasn't the point. I did not say the OP was interested in a shell. I referred to the above link as an example of a house in rural Ireland in an area with masses of apartments and no market for them. The price of that house affects the prices of the apartments, whether you, or developers, like it or not. I don't know if you misinterpreted this wilfully or unintentionally, but there it is.

As an aside, I was wondering how much demolition and clean up of an apartment complex would cost. D3PO?

1. yeah id say a 500% difference in pricing is big

2. Correct I dont know that, however we are agreed it will cost for the example you have provided. A fixer upper bungalow is likely in this day and age to have little impact to the price of the apartment. Infact with banks cutting ltv rates where as 5 years ago probably loaning the money needed for the renovations aswell its actually more likely to push buyers towards the apartments you mention rather than this property.

Nobody disputes property in Leitrim etc is overpriced. Im sure I read they had 300% the housing stock needed supply and demand we all know which is driving the hosue price changes there.

id say that bungalow is overpriced personally. But I still dont ever forsee these new apartments going for 10 grand.

Tell me this if they were avalaible to rent at 60 euro a month do you think they would be rented ? If so that tells me selling at 10k wouldnt be financially prudent.

ricman · 01-06-2010 4:56pm

Some builders already sold apartments for cost price,eg 70k in mullingar .They were sold in 3 days.You,ll never get an apartment for 10k, you can buy an old cottage for 40k in the middle of nowhere ,but then you,ll have a long commute to work.The whole point of nama is to take unsold developments from builders/ banks .
Nama might sell em,or give them to local authoritys and maybe reduce the rent allowance bill.No one seems to know what namas gonna do.
WHEN someone buys a home acess to shops, transport ,work is just as important as the price.

D3PO · 01-06-2010 5:09pm

ricman wrote: »

Some builders already sold apartments for cost price,eg 70k in mullingar .

So what how has that any relevence. "Cost price" doesnt equal a floor on prices. :rolleyes:

ricman wrote: »

you can buy an old cottage for 40k in the middle of nowhere ,but then you,ll have a long commute to work.

Another Ricman random comment :rolleyes: people work from home, people could be farming the land in the next field etc etc. This is another ill thought baseless comment.

ricman wrote: »

The whole point of nama is to take unsold developments from builders/ banks .

Did you really say that. The point of NAMA is not to take unsold developments sweet mother of god. Id actually explain the concept of NAMA but it would go over your head.

ricman wrote: »

Nama might give them to local authoritys and maybe reduce the rent allowance bill.No one seems to know what namas gonna do.

People have a better grasp of NAMA than you do. NAMA is not a government entity. Why would NAMA "give" housing to local authorities. Please dont comment about things you dont know about.

ricman wrote: »

WHEN someone buys a home acess to shops, transport ,work is just as important as the price.

Based on what. Do you really think public transport which your implying abouve has any relevence to house buying in rural areas :rolleyes: or access to shops for that matter.

God god that post was wrong in so many ways

pawnacide · 01-06-2010 5:28pm

Are you really naive enough to believe that NAMA is solely to save the banking system ?

??????????????? Not a government agency ????????

Public transport issues win and lose elections for local politicians in rural areas. I'd say more than half of the potential buyers viewing houses in rural areas dont buy because of lack of local services.

danbohan · 01-06-2010 5:36pm

D3PO wrote: »

this is just silly talk now :rolleyes: A develooper is not going to do this. Hes going to rent out the apartments well before doing this.

ok we hit a bubble and are adjusting but lets not be rediculous on where things will actually fall to.

and hes going to rent to whom ? martians , maybe in the main urban centres he has option of renting out but not in many of ghost estate town .

the fire-sale has not happened because the government banks {nama} developers are keeping a ceiling under prices ,

10000 not anytime soon , but 30000+ for 1 bedroom apts seems reasonable outside main urban centres

D3PO · 01-06-2010 5:36pm

pawnacide wrote: »

Are you really naive enough to believe that NAMA is solely to save the banking system ?

??????????????? Not a government agency ????????

Public transport issues win and lose elections for local politicians in rural areas. I'd say more than half of the potential buyers viewing houses in rural areas dont buy because of lack of local services.

Where did I say that NAMA would "only save the banking system" ?

Fact its not a government agency. It was setup as a SPV to try and fudge oour debt to GDP ratios. Couldnt be done if it was a government agency. So the statement that NAMA is not a government agency is FACT

The statement that NAMA wont give (implying free) property to councils is also true.

I never said potential buyers buy because of a lack of loca services but there not buying specifically for them. If you live in a rural area you do not reply on public transport, any orther argument is folly.

danbohan · 01-06-2010 5:40pm

bugler wrote: »

All I hear is "just because". There are properties around the country for sub €50k. Some of them are three bed houses in areas with "social issues". Some of them are cute little rural cottages that need some TLC. But they're there. And if there is little demand for a property, then its price must fall.

Consider the below: http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=533223

I don't believe we're anywhere near the end of this crash. If this doesn't sell for €50k what would be your outlook on the future prices of Leitrim/Roscommon shoebox apartments? Will they never get near 10k just because?

you might find that tlc for some those cottages would be very costly especially if not serviced , now if you can get a restored one for 50k then...

most the vacant housing in leitrim roscommon is housing not apts

D3PO · 01-06-2010 5:41pm

danbohan wrote: »

and hes going to rent to whom ? martians , maybe in the main urban centres he has option of renting out but not in many of ghost estate town .

the fire-sale has not happened because the government banks {nama} developers are keeping a ceiling under prices ,

10000 not anytime soon , but 30000+ for 1 bedroom apts seems reasonable outside main urban centres

if your going to quote me look at my other posts before doing so

"they might go low but even in the arse end of nowhere this isnt gonna happen.

EA fees, legal fees, cost of fixing snag list etc are gonna add up. It wouldnt make any sense to sell even in an estate that will never sell for that price. "

and you need to learn the difference between a floor and a ceiling before posting

danbohan · 01-06-2010 5:45pm

D3PO wrote: »

if your going to quote me look at my other posts before doing so

"they might go low but even in the arse end of nowhere this isnt gonna happen.

EA fees, legal fees, cost of fixing snag list etc are gonna add up. It wouldnt make any sense to sell even in an estate that will never sell for that price. "

and you need to learn the difference between a floor and a ceiling before posting

is their a difference , never knew , lucky your here then

D3PO · 01-06-2010 6:33pm

danbohan wrote: »

is their a difference , never knew , lucky your here then

you just broke my sarcasmmeter

Jo King · 01-06-2010 6:39pm

HouseHunting wrote: »

Does anyone think a developer would accept a €10,000 for a new apartment?? I'm sure they want to move them and ten grand is better than nothing.

There is a very simple way to find out. Put an ad in the paper offering E10K for a new house or apartment. Let us know how many call you get. You could also try contacting developers or their agents and make offers of E10K

Victor · 02-06-2010 6:10am

Zamboni wrote: »

Could you see another option where Nama gets stuck with them and just does a firesale for whatever the market will take them at?

NAMA is taking loans, not properties. **If** NAMA gets stuck with a particular property, it is likely **not** to engage in a fire sale as it would be unlikely to need the proceeds in a panic to pay a bank.

If we ever get to that stage, thats the least of our problems.

SkepticOne · 02-06-2010 8:40am

The main thing propping up new apartments at the moment, imo, is the affordable housing scheme. Developers need to keep prices high in order to benefit from the scheme.

fliball123 · 02-06-2010 9:38am

Not a chance ever of getting a house for 10k .... listen this madness has to stop....Nama is there to protect bankers/builders and for people waiting for the defautlers it aint going to happen as there would be absolute anarchy if the banks start defaulting on properties in Large scale. The reasons being that

1. It will effect house prices pushing them down costing more to the gov and tax payers
2. The gov will still have to house these people
3. The negitive impact it will have on the already poor rep of the gov

Which is why if a house does go into default the house will stay on sale at the same price and adjusted accordingly to the conditions of the market ie if houses drop 5% in an area nama will do the same and Nama is the only body that has the ability to do this.

I really feel sorry for FTB trying to get on the ladder its a duck shoot guys be careful with the advise you are giving out on this as people take head of what is said.

mathie · 02-06-2010 12:54pm

fliball123 wrote: »

Not a chance ever of getting a house for 10k .... listen this madness has to stop....Nama is there to protect bankers/builders and for people waiting for the defautlers it aint going to happen as there would be absolute anarchy if the banks start defaulting on properties in Large scale. The reasons being that

1. It will effect house prices pushing them down costing more to the gov and tax payers
2. The gov will still have to house these people
3. The negitive impact it will have on the already poor rep of the gov

Which is why if a house does go into default the house will stay on sale at the same price and adjusted accordingly to the conditions of the market ie if houses drop 5% in an area nama will do the same and Nama is the only body that has the ability to do this.

I really feel sorry for FTB trying to get on the ladder its a duck shoot guys be careful with the advise you are giving out on this as people take head of what is said.

Never say never.

http://www.dailywealth.com/985/The-World-s-Cheapest-Property

Six weeks ago, a company called Hudson and Marshall sold 300 properties in Utopia. A company spokesperson said more than half of these properties sold for less than $10,000.

plasmaguy · 02-06-2010 5:09pm

I'm sure you'd pick up a nice apartment within a year or two for 50K, but it won't be in Dublin, it will be more like Mullingar, Longford, somewhere like that.

You'd also have to make sure your neighbours are good. A buy to let investor might lease out the apartment and you don't know who you end up living beside, although that's a risk no matter where you are.

You might think 50k is a bargain, but if it's somewhere backwards with no jobs, etc, and poorly maintained, or on a flood plain, it won't be so cheap.

€10,000 for a new apartment/house

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