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The Alabama senate has voted to ban abortion after six weeks

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12357…17

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    #122
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,117 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    This is what the HSE tells women to do with their unplanned pregnancies.

    "If you have an abortion before 9 weeks, you can decide how to dispose of the remains. They can be flushed down the toilet"

    Do you think that is caring for the women of Ireland and progressive?

    I'm confused as to what that has to do with my post?


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    #123
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Just to point out - 59% of state voters in November agreed to write anti-abortion language in the Alabama Constitution, saying the state recognizes the rights of the “unborn.”. - http://time.com/5447142/abortion-restrictions-ballot-measures/

    So it's not like the public representatives are completely out of touch with the people of Alabama.


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    #124
    KSU
    Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    But that's not the aim here is it? If they care about women who experience unplanned pregnancies then they would:

    -Increase funding for sex education (they aren't doing this)
    -Increase funding for contraceptives (they are doing the opposite of this by trying to stop insurance coverage for any contraceptives that give women specifically a choice, such as the pill and IUDs. There are no plans to limit male centred contraception like condoms and vasectomies)

    If they cared about babies once they are born they would

    -Provide free or greatly subsidised pre natal care (they aren't doing this)
    -Introduce decent maternity and parental paid leave (they aren't doing this)
    -Provide free healthcare to infants and children (they aren't doing this)

    Therefore the only logical conclusion is that this is actually about controlling women and rolling back their rights.

    Guessed you missed the fact that that was referring to rape not pregnancy.

    You do realise that everything you mentioned here is federal/government policy and not state level as to where this law was signed.


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    #125
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    You're nuts mate, not engaging with you.

    He’s right though, that’s essentially what it is.


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    #126
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    This is what the HSE tells women to do with their unplanned pregnancies.

    "If you have an abortion before 9 weeks, you can decide how to dispose of the remains. They can be flushed down the toilet"

    Do you think that is caring for the women of Ireland and progressive?

    If you naturally miscarry at that gestation where do you think it goes?
    It’s a heavy period with large clots. It goes down the toilet. There is nothing to bury.
    I speak from experience so less of the faux outrage unless you also have a problem with natural miscarriages being disposed of that way.


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    #127
    KSU
    Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    For those who are talking about it being pushed to illegal abortions as an alternative here is some good insight from a former director of planned parenthood to get some insight into US practices

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j6g_IZc04A


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    #128
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Aeropress405 wrote: »
    You're doing the same thing you accuse others of it right now, you're so closed minded that you can't see how you're imposing your morals on other people.

    Some people believe that the unborn deserve protection and/or consideration. They believe it is wrong to kill the unborn, they believe it is a worse outcome killing the unborn than allowing an unwanted pregnancy to continue. You can't prove them wrong just like they can't prove you wrong, it's a difference in morals, your morals aren't. You can shout about "but butThe other side" ad nauseam but you're being just as closed minded as "the other side".

    I respect your right to believe that and choose that for yourself. I don’t respect your right to impose that belief on me and my life.
    Your morals are your own, as are mine. They can co-exist peacefully without imposing on each other, so long as neither of us tries to interfere and apply said morals onto the other.
    That is why I am pro-choice and that is what being pro-choice is about.
    You should afford others the same respect you expect yourself.


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    #129
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    i wonder how Alabama's relatively high black population relates to this move. African American women undergo far more terminations that other Americans but they are also a more church going community.


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    #130
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,023 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    This is what the HSE tells women to do with their unplanned pregnancies.

    "If you have an abortion before 9 weeks, you can decide how to dispose of the remains. They can be flushed down the toilet"

    Do you think that is caring for the women of Ireland and progressive?

    What exactly do you think happens when a woman miscarries at 9 weeks?

    Is that different somehow or have people not been caring for the women of Ireland for decades?


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    #131
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    volchitsa wrote: »
    What exactly do you think happens when a woman miscarries at 9 weeks?

    Is that different somehow or have people not been caring for the women of Ireland for decades?

    That poster probably thinks the woman passes a teeny tiny baby


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    #132
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    Not at all. We all have a right to be born. Once you're an adult, and do something evil like murder or abortion, then you have forfeited your right to life.

    Not very pro-life of you.


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    #133
    Sweetemotion
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Sweetemotion


    volchitsa wrote: »
    What exactly do you think happens when a woman miscarries at 9 weeks?

    Is that different somehow or have people not been caring for the women of Ireland for decades?

    Just think it's terrible wording on a government website.


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    #134
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    Just think it's terrible wording on a government website.

    What should it say? How does one expect a woman to dispose of blood and clots?


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    #135
    Sweetemotion
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Sweetemotion


    eviltwin wrote: »
    That poster probably thinks the woman passes a teeny tiny baby


    That's exactly what happens :confused:


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    #136
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    You're nuts mate, not engaging with you.

    What do you think an abortion at that stage involves? A fully formed baby waiting to walk?


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    #137
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    That's exactly what happens :confused:

    You need to get your information from somewhere other than Iona institute leaflets.

    Women have miscarriages on their own all the time in the first 12 weeks or so. Plenty without even realising they were pregnant, depending on how early.


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    #138
    pinkyeye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭pinkyeye


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    Not at all. We all have a right to be born. Once you're an adult, and do something evil like murder or abortion, then you have forfeited your right to life.

    Hang on, hang on, hang on. Now someone who has an abortion has forfeited their right to life????????

    Yeah, you've lost the grip here love. :rolleyes::rolleyes:


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    #139
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    Just think it's terrible wording on a government website.


    It's accurate and reflects the reality of abortion or miscarriage at that stage. Why pretend otherwise? The target audience is women who are familiar with periods and what they are like, not clearly squeamish types like yourself.

    I hate to break it to you, but there's no clear blue liquid and precious little rollerblading involved when it comes to periods.


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    #140
    Patty Hearst
    Closed Accounts Posts: 290 ✭✭Patty Hearst


    volchitsa wrote: »
    What exactly do you think happens when a woman miscarries at 9 weeks?

    Is that different somehow or have people not been caring for the women of Ireland for decades?

    When the Woman miscarries the HSE describe it as a 'baby' and talk respectfully about 'burial'

    When an Abortion takes place they call it the 'remains' and suggest you flush it down the jacks


    baby-1.jpg

    baby-2.jpg


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    #141
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    Just think it's terrible wording on a government website.

    That’s the reality of miscarriage and 1/3 women experience it in their lifetimes, never mind women who have abortions.

    The same advice is given to women from maternity hospitals when they miscarry, with probably even less sugar coating. They don’t want to know.


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    #142
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,117 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    That's exactly what happens :confused:

    Um, no it's not

    Many women have an early miscarriage without even realising it. They just think it's a heavy period. It's not like a perfectly formed tiny little baby just comes out. Who would think this?


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    #143
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Amirani wrote: »
    Just to point out - 59% of state voters in November agreed to write anti-abortion language in the Alabama Constitution, saying the state recognizes the rights of the “unborn.”. - http://time.com/5447142/abortion-restrictions-ballot-measures/

    So it's not like the public representatives are completely out of touch with the people of Alabama.

    Id imagine they are out of touch with the concerns of the 60% (not my figure , Patty posted it) of women having the abortions in the state that come from a significantly poorer section of society and only make up 25% of the states population.

    This is where we swing back to empathy.


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    #144
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    I respect your right to believe that and choose that for yourself. I don’t respect your right to impose that belief on me and my life.
    Your morals are your own, as are mine. They can co-exist peacefully without imposing on each other, so long as neither of us tries to interfere and apply said morals onto the other.
    That is why I am pro-choice and that is what being pro-choice is about.
    You should afford others the same respect you expect yourself.


    That argument doesn't work on pro life people. They generally don't see a difference between a foetus and a child. You might as well say, "I respect your right not to kill children but I don't think you should be able to impose that restriction on me."


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    #145
    pinkyeye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭pinkyeye


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    This is what the HSE tells women to do with their unplanned pregnancies.

    "If you have an abortion before 9 weeks, you can decide how to dispose of the remains. They can be flushed down the toilet"

    Do you think that is caring for the women of Ireland and progressive?

    What's your point, I've had an abortion, it's a blood clot! So yes of course it should be flushed down the toilet.


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    #146
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    That's exactly what happens :confused:

    No it doesn’t. It’s blood clots. It comes out like a period. :confused:


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    #147
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Aeropress405 wrote: »
    Some people believe that the unborn deserve protection and/or consideration. They believe it is wrong to kill the unborn, they believe it is a worse outcome killing the unborn than allowing an unwanted pregnancy to continue. You can't prove them wrong just like they can't prove you wrong, it's a difference in morals, your morals aren't. You can shout about "but butThe other side" ad nauseam but you're being just as closed minded as "the other side".

    They can believe what they like and keep right away from abortions.

    Forcing people to put their lives at risk for your morals is wrong.

    I disagree with a lot of stuff, but if it doesnt affect me or have a negative affect on the society I live in , you go right ahead and do it if you want.

    I have no desire to decide whats best for you or tell you what you can or cant do.


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    #148
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    MrFresh wrote: »
    That argument doesn't work on pro life people. They generally don't see a difference between a foetus and a child. You might as well say, "I respect your right not to kill children but I don't think you should be able to impose that restriction on me."

    They can think it’s a pineapple for all I care, so long as they don’t impose that view on me.


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    #149
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,023 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    Just think it's terrible wording on a government website.

    I think we should have all learned the lesson of the disastrous Protection of Life during Pregnancy and stopped trying to use euphemisms for what are rather brutal truths. Childbirth, miscarriages, abortions and all their after effects is a rather gory domain, I can tell you.

    We had prolifers wanting a law to ensure aborted foetuses were given burials - a woman with a crisis pregnancy needs accurate information about what she is allowed to do or not. She needs frank and honest information.

    Too bad if it's too blunt for people who think babies are found in rose,bushes and cabbage patches.


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    #150
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    This is what the HSE tells women to do with their unplanned pregnancies.

    "If you have an abortion before 9 weeks, you can decide how to dispose of the remains. They can be flushed down the toilet"

    Do you think that is caring for the women of Ireland and progressive?

    I really worry about the mindset behind such posts.


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    #151
    Sweetemotion
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Sweetemotion


    volchitsa wrote: »
    I think we should have all learned the lesson of the disastrous Protection of Life during Pregnancy and stopped trying to use euphemisms for what are rather brutal truths. Childbirth, miscarriages, abortions and all their after effects is a rather gory domain, I can tell you.

    We had prolifers wanting a law to ensure aborted foetuses were given burials - a woman with a crisis pregnancy needs accurate information about what she is allowed to do or not. She needs frank and honest information.

    Too bad if it's too blunt for people who think babies are found in rose,bushes and cabbage patches.

    Here look, I was pro-life and actually had my views changed on this site and voted yes to repeal.

    They were talking about that wording on a radio show yesterday and most people were disgusted with it from both sides.

    As for Alabama it is sickening that they have included rape and incest in this bill.


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