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"Real" Airsoft Guns!

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  • 25-01-2007 6:26pm
    #1
    moneyman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭


    I don't know much (anything) about real guns, but it did get me thinking. How do real guns work? Obviously not by battery or gas. So, my point is, would it be possibe to make a fully automatic airsoft gun that doesn't use batteries or gas? Obviously at around the same fps as the ones now.

    Would this be possible or am I just talking a load of sh1t??


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    #2
    Fiach Dubh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Fiach Dubh


    Real firearms use a gun powder charge stored in the shell casing to propel the bullet out of the chamber and barrel by means of gas build-up. Using the same mechanism for an Airsoft gun wouldn't work for one reason alone, the heat caused by the cartridge ignition would melt the BB.

    The closest I think you could go would be to have individual shells with small gas reservoirs to fire the BB. Would be very expensive to do though.


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    #3
    Harekin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Harekin


    And a pain in the @$$. The last thing you wanna do is individually fill all your rounds with gas then grab them as they are ejected from your gun at 750 rounds per minute!


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    #4
    Spitfire666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Spitfire666


    the closest thing you can get now are the old TM pistols that you put the bbs into the top of the shells, 1 per shell and load the shells into the guns mag. then when you shoot the shells fly out but not very practicl as you need to pick up all the shells b4 you loose them.

    The site is there in one of the threads here but i dont know whick i'm afraid.


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    #5
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,540 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    You're always going to need some consumable to make the gun work. Batteries are the best solution as they're rechargeable.

    The only other possibility I can think of is making some form of a rail gun with lots of magnets. Somehow I dont think it would be worth the effort :p


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    #6
    MaxForce
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭MaxForce


    Not only that but it is the actual explosion of the gunpowder that causes the slide to slide back and so reload the next shell. If the explosion is not big enough then the slide wont come back and what you are left with is a springer. This is the same with blank firring replicas.


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    #7
    sidneyreilly
    Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭sidneyreilly


    You would find it impossible to stay within the one Joule limit. Oen of the lowest powered conventional rounds available is the .22 BB or CB cap which only uses primer and no powder to fire a lead ball ( a cartridge requires a primer that ignites when struck similar in properties to a cap-gun cap and propellant powder which burns fast releasing gas that accelerates the round). This generates in the region of 25-30 foot pounds, this again, without any proepr propeelant powder (you can convert that to joules) and still this amunition does not generate the recoil to cycle a semi-auto.

    Same would apply to G11 design which requires sufficient expanding gas to cycle the mech.

    P.s. this is as close as you will get to 1 joule http://www.swissminigun.com/home.html

    There was a .12 automatic that worked once and cycled made by Collibri (usesed something like a pen spring on the slide) by the way but it still generated a nice few joules


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    #8
    N.O.I.P.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭N.O.I.P.


    Uhm just a thought here guys but shouldn't we be trying to show people that there is a difference between an airsoft gun and a real firearm not trying to come up with ways af amalgamating the two.

    If you can develop an airsoft gun that works just like a real gun then whats to stop you from converting it to fire live ammunition. This is a dangerous line of conversation.


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    #9
    sidneyreilly
    Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭sidneyreilly


    Fear not. If you were to posses the know-how, equipement etc.. )very feew but gun-smiths do) to convert an airsoft gun you can amke a firearm. Indeed it's probably easier to start from scratch!!


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    #10
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Fiach Dubh wrote:
    The closest I think you could go would be to have individual shells with small gas reservoirs to fire the BB. Would be very expensive to do though.
    They're called brococks in the UK and have just recently been banned there. Weren't hugely expensive though. And they're well above the 1J limit.
    o1s1n wrote:
    The only other possibility I can think of is making some form of a rail gun with lots of magnets. Somehow I dont think it would be worth the effort :p
    Not to mention the fact that railguns need metallic slugs to fire, and reach exceptionally high kinetic energies, well in excess of conventional firearms.


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    #11
    N.O.I.P.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭N.O.I.P.


    sidneyreilly wrote:
    Fear not. If you were to posses the know-how, equipement etc.. )very feew but gun-smiths do) to convert an airsoft gun you can amke a firearm. Indeed it's probably easier to start from scratch!!

    Tell that to an angry gun shy mammy after she catches little Timmy trying to bore out his springer because he wanted a "real gun" and he read about how to make one here.

    I still say this is a bad thing to be discussing on an open forum


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    #12
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    N.O.I.P. wrote:
    Tell that to an angry gun shy mammy after she catches little Timmy trying to bore out his springer because he wanted a "real gun" and he read about how to make one here.
    I still say this is a bad thing to be discussing on an open forum

    It would be... if it were possible.
    In order to do what you're talking about, you would effectively have to build a real gun, then strap the shell of an airsoft gun around it. You just can't convert an airsoft gun to a cartridge firearm, the physical makeup of the toy isn't up to it.


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    #13
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,540 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    As I've read on many sites, airsoft guns have more in common with R.C cars then actual firearms.

    N.O.I.P does have a point though. Talk of firearms/airsoft toy crossovers shouldn't really be discussed as it blurs the lines. Even if it is impossible.
    o1s1n wrote:
    The only other possibility I can think of is making some form of a rail gun with lots of magnets. Somehow I dont think it would be worth the effort :p

    That was pure fantasy talk by the way. I didn't intend it as a viable option!


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    #14
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Talk of firearms/airsoft toy crossovers shouldn't really be discussed as it blurs the lines. Even if it is impossible.
    ...which is sortof like saying you shouldn't discuss how superman flies in a movie forum, lest a child jump off the roof of his house trying to imitate superman...


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    #15
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,540 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    That's not it at all. If some kid wants to go out and ruin his AEG by attempting to convert it into a firearm it's his business.

    I just don't want the D.O.J or some other government body reading something like that on here and thinking its possible to do. When it's not. Doesn't exactly help the sport out.


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    #16
    nonex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭nonex


    it was a bad idea
    i have taken it down


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    #17
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    You'd be better off trying to convert a microwave into the new american "heat ray" :)

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/01/24/ray.gun.ap/index.html

    Or maybe spending your time on curing something or cutting the grass rather than breaking your new 300€ aeg :D


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    #18
    Harekin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Harekin


    Noticed a mod fight there...nice!


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    #19
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,540 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Harekin wrote:
    Noticed a mod fight there...nice!

    Nothing to see now, move along...


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    #20
    Spitfire666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Spitfire666


    o1s1n wrote:
    Nothing to see now, move along...


    HEY, Thats my phrase


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    #21
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,540 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Spitfire666 wrote:
    HEY, Thats my phrase

    Would you say you use it more just after someone notices you take a bribe or just after someone notices you beating up some young rapscallion who just shouted some abuse at you? ;)


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    #22
    Spitfire666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Spitfire666


    Id say about the same really.

    Dont want anyone to think i'm being unfair


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    #23
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,540 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    :eek:


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    #24
    Spitfire666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Spitfire666


    What can i say. equal opertunities and all that....


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    #25
    moneyman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭moneyman


    N.O.I.P. wrote:
    Uhm just a thought here guys but shouldn't we be trying to show people that there is a difference between an airsoft gun and a real firearm not trying to come up with ways af amalgamating the two.

    If you can develop an airsoft gun that works just like a real gun then whats to stop you from converting it to fire live ammunition. This is a dangerous line of conversation.


    This is not what I asked, so don't imply that I asked is it possible to change an airsoft gun into a real fire arm.

    I obviously know that there is a difference since I have two AEGs.

    What I asked is, would it be possible to create a airsoft gun that doesn't need gas or a battery, just shoots automatically. Someone said something about magnets, this is the sort of topic that I expected. Just alternate and cheaper ways to make them.


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    #26
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,540 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    See the thing is, all guns(okay not all but the majority) require some form of consumable energy to make the projectile fire. In the case of an AEG it's electricity which powers gears. In the case of a gas gun, well, gas.
    Real guns are no different. They need a consumable form of energy too.


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    #27
    N.O.I.P.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭N.O.I.P.


    moneyman wrote:
    This is not what I asked, so don't imply that I asked is it possible to change an airsoft gun into a real fire arm.

    I never implied you asked that, I put up my reply as the thread had started to fill with posts about how to make an airsoft rifle that functions like a real gun. I know how a real gun works and I know how an airsoft gun work, I dont for a minute assume that I am the only one but a lot of people out there have no clue. Any thread that discusses the merits of creating an airsoft gun that contains something similar to a real guns firing mechanism blurs the lines of distinction between what is a harmless toy and what can be a potentially lethal weapon.

    I have no intention of seeing airsoft banned because of this kind of misconception and I think its a really bad idea for anyone here to post anything that could cause people to believe it.

    Now if you want ideas on alternative ways to power an AEG I quite like the idea of using a V8, you could even run it on bio-ethanol so it was environmentally friendly :D


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    #28
    Harekin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Harekin


    I reckon we could run it on sunshine!!
    ;-S


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    #29
    Spitfire666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Spitfire666


    Harekin wrote:
    I reckon we could run it on sunshine!!
    ;-S


    And happiness and peace and love....

    Sorry, care bear moment


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    #30
    Harekin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Harekin


    Yeah freaked myself out saying that...


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    #31
    Spitfire666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Spitfire666


    Gotta man up a bit....


    Grrrr, Arse **** **** **** women drink cars guns.......


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