New platform for Limerick junction

IE 222 · 03-09-2019 7:55am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They now use both P4 or P5 for Dublin services so not an issue like a few years ago.

They'll still need to cross either on arrival or departure. Having both timed at the same time is going to cause a delay to either one if everything is running on time.

Grab All Association · 03-09-2019 12:44pm

I’m on the 12:15 Thurles - Cork (Dublin-Cork) it was 7 minutes late and snailed it from North of Goolds Cross to Dundrum. And I’ll bet you it’s going to pull in at platform 1.

Edit: No, 4, but a delay with those stupid American tourists and those stupid cyclists with their racing bikes.

Del.Monte · 03-09-2019 12:59pm

So has the new platform resulted in dramatically shorter journey times or was it just more wasting public money?

Grab All Association · 03-09-2019 6:45pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

So has the new platform resulted in dramatically shorter journey times or was it just more wasting public money?

Waste of money. It wouldn’t be too bad if the trains were actually on time on the mainline. On a non stop MK4 from Dublin to Thurles it arrived 15 minutes late a few weeks ago because of 3 slowdowns on certain parts of the track in Kildare and Laois (I assume because of delays on the Galway and Waterford lines)

The only “benefit” I see will be the delays to Limerick shuttles that happens from time to time. The Cork to Dublin waits on P1 for the shuttle to come in and the Dublin to Cork waited on the track for it to come out.

no.8 · 03-09-2019 6:49pm

Grab All Association wrote: »

I’m on the 12:15 Thurles - Cork (Dublin-Cork) it was 7 minutes late and snailed it from North of Goolds Cross to Dundrum. And I’ll bet you it’s going to pull in at platform 1.

Edit: No, 4, but a delay with those stupid American tourists and those stupid cyclists with their racing bikes.

That is a ridiculous statement. I think you'll find that the carriage of bicycles is nothing new on trains, especially if you've been to states with decent railway infrastructure. Tourists will be tourists. 7 mins ffs, not the end of the world ..and something which should be built into the schedule no?

Jamie2k9 · 03-09-2019 7:57pm

IE 222 wrote: »

They'll still need to cross either on arrival or departure. Having both timed at the same time is going to cause a delay to either one if everything is running on time.

Add an extra 30 seconds outbound services. It not really a major issue.

dowlingm · 20-10-2019 4:49pm

Closing the overbridge a month into service to throw a roof on it that it should never have opened without.

https://youtu.be/cQp9RC2sfT0

Del.Monte · 20-10-2019 6:01pm

dowlingm wrote: »

Closing the overbridge a month into service to throw a roof on it that it should never have opened without.

https://youtu.be/cQp9RC2sfT0

Don't get the significance of the YouTube link.

Jamie2k9 · 21-10-2019 12:25pm

Incompetent project team overseeing this, what would you expect. Outside of those in Per Way they get very little right.

Anyone know if shelters have arrived yet?

IE 222 · 21-10-2019 11:59pm

Why does the bridge need a roof all of a sudden.

thomond2006 · 22-10-2019 8:26pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Why does the bridge need a roof all of a sudden.

It's a bit ridiculous it was opened without one. LJ is hell on earth as it is.

Jamie2k9 · 23-10-2019 10:10am

The junction is a great spot, no different to any other station.

Last Stop · 29-02-2020 8:57pm

If they added less than 1.5km of new line, it would be possible to go from Limerick to Waterford without any reversing movements.
This would also offer the direct platform connection between services that use the new platform 4.
One can dream eh :rolleyes:

theguzman · 29-02-2020 9:06pm

Last Stop wrote: »

If they added less than 1.5km of new line, it would be possible to go from Limerick to Waterford without any reversing movements.
This would also offer the direct platform connection between services that use the new platform 4.
One can dream eh :rolleyes:

Irish Rail would prefer to close the Limerick Junction to Waterford line if they could get away with it.

goingnowhere · 29-02-2020 10:15pm

theguzman wrote: »

Irish Rail would prefer to close the Limerick Junction to Waterford line if they could get away with it.

You have always been able to go from Limerick to Waterford without reversing, you just don’t stop at Limerick Junction.

thewexman93 · 01-03-2020 12:04am

You'd have to wonder how the marvellous engineers of their time ever thought that the Limerick junction layout was sensible. They were capable of tunnelling through all sorts of rock, building marvellous Bridges and viaducts, yet they couldn't even design a station to avoid reversing. On a straight mainline. And that's just the Dublin cork line traffic.

I won't even begin to describe how stupid the shunt was behind the station to the Rosslare bay platform

Del.Monte · 01-03-2020 12:16am

thewexman93 wrote: »

You'd have to wonder how the marvellous engineers of their time ever thought that the Limerick junction layout was sensible. They were capable of tunnelling through all sorts of rock, building marvellous Bridges and viaducts, yet they couldn't even design a station to avoid reversing. On a straight mainline. And that's just the Dublin cork line traffic.

I won't even begin to describe how stupid the shunt was behind the station to the Rosslare bay platform

It came about due to the station being used by two different railway companies - the Waterford & Limerick Railway and the Great Southern & Western Railway. The 'stupid' shunt as you put it was carried out effortlessly for years and the only stupidity at Limerick Junction has come about in recent years in CIE/IE stewardship.

thewexman93 · 01-03-2020 12:44am

So a train traveling from Limerick to Waterford/rosslare on a direct piece of railway, had to leave the line to divert into the station, run along behind the station, which required the opening of two barriers, travel past the station, before reversing into a dead end platform. When leaving the station to continue the journey it then had to travel towards cork, reverse back behind the station building as far as the direct Limerick to Waterford line, before eventually continuing to waterford.

I think stupid is a particularly accurate word to describe it.

And the business of mainline Dublin to cork trains having to travel past the main platforms before having to reverse into them was equally as stupid. CIE can be blamed for many things over the years, but credit where it is due, at least they have rectified this nonsense

Del.Monte · 01-03-2020 8:11am

thewexman93 wrote: »

So a train traveling from Limerick to Waterford/rosslare on a direct piece of railway, had to leave the line to divert into the station, run along behind the station, which required the opening of two barriers, travel past the station, before reversing into a dead end platform. When leaving the station to continue the journey it then had to travel towards cork, reverse back behind the station building as far as the direct Limerick to Waterford line, before eventually continuing to waterford.

I think stupid is a particularly accurate word to describe it.

And the business of mainline Dublin to cork trains having to travel past the main platforms before having to reverse into them was equally as stupid. CIE can be blamed for many things over the years, but credit where it is due, at least they have rectified this nonsense

That's an interesting revisionist view but don't worry as soon the final solution will see the 'stupid' Waterford/Limerick JUnction line converted into a greenway.

Isambard · 01-03-2020 10:24am

well I'm not opposed to Greenways on defunct railway lines, but this one is only a sleepy backwater poised on the brink of extinction because that's how IE want it. Limerick to Waterford should be a main artery, that's quite obvious.

91wx763 · 01-03-2020 12:24pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

You have always been able to go from Limerick to Waterford without reversing, you just don’t stop at Limerick Junction.

That's a bit wrong. You're mincing his words. It's clear he meant run Waterford to Limerick (still stopping at Limerick Junction) without reversing.

Jamie2k9 · 01-03-2020 4:02pm

91wx763 wrote: »

That's a bit wrong. You're mincing his words. It's clear he meant run Waterford to Limerick (still stopping at Limerick Junction) without reversing.

Proposing using P4 for the service?, only problem then is installing a crossover to connect down Cork P4 line to Limerick branch. Would say not enough space for a crossover and if there was lot of signalling conflicts means long connections.

Last Stop · 01-03-2020 5:34pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Proposing using P4 for the service?, only problem then is installing a crossover to connect down Cork P4 line to Limerick branch. Would say not enough space for a crossover and if there was lot of signalling conflicts means long connections.

No by using a new platform (P5 say) which would be directly beside P4.

I don’t see how the signaling could be anymore complex then it is now where the train coming from Waterford needs 3 different movements to continue onto Limerick.

Jamie2k9 · 01-03-2020 10:03pm

Last Stop wrote: »

No by using a new platform (P5 say) which would be directly beside P4.

I don’t see how the signaling could be anymore complex then it is now where the train coming from Waterford needs 3 different movements to continue onto Limerick.

Fair enough but accessing the Limerick line directly might still be a problem.

For the million(s) to facilitate such an project I think you would be better spending the same money extending CTC to Cahir and eliminating manual crossings which should allow a high speeds.

Last Stop · 02-03-2020 11:58pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Fair enough but accessing the Limerick line directly might still be a problem.

For the million(s) to facilitate such an project I think you would be better spending the same money extending CTC to Cahir and eliminating manual crossings which should allow a high speeds.

Upgrading Limerick junction to a proper interchange station would offer far more benefits than just improvements to journey times between Waterford and Limerick.

Unfortunately Irish Rail have removed the second part of vision 2030 from the website but that report detailed the increase in passenger numbers simply by upgrading the interchange station (Athlone was another example cited).

I don’t think the costs would be that high. I would estimate in the region of €20m. You wouldn’t upgrade many level crossings for that amount.

Given the strategic importance of Limerick junction, I think this should be prioritised over upgrades further east as they would likely offer similar journey time savings.

thewexman93 · 03-03-2020 12:14am

Del.Monte wrote: »

That's an interesting revisionist view but don't worry as soon the final solution will see the 'stupid' Waterford/Limerick JUnction line converted into a greenway.

What is "revisionist" about the way I have described the shunt? I've just watched a video from 1988 of that very shunt taking place.

Geuze · 03-03-2020 12:48am

Looking at diagrams of the layout online just now.

Messy.

I see the direct LK-WD line has no actual platforms.

How far is the LK-WD line from the station?

Could platforms be built on the LK-WD line, as it crosses the mainline on a bridge?

And link these platforms to the main station?

Like Berlin-Sudkreuz.

Geuze · 03-03-2020 12:49am

Also needs platforms on the eastern side of the main line, with a crossing bridge or subway?

Jamie2k9 · 03-03-2020 1:00am

Last Stop wrote: »

Upgrading Limerick junction to a proper interchange station would offer far more benefits than just improvements to journey times between Waterford and Limerick.

Unfortunately Irish Rail have removed the second part of vision 2030 from the website but that report detailed the increase in passenger numbers simply by upgrading the interchange station (Athlone was another example cited).

I don’t think the costs would be that high. I would estimate in the region of €20m. You wouldn’t upgrade many level crossings for that amount.

Given the strategic importance of Limerick junction, I think this should be prioritised over upgrades further east as they would likely offer similar journey time savings.

Its around €1 million per crossing so such funding would transform the Limerick-Waterford line or any current line.

Spending 22m in Limerick J is madness for little return.

Last Stop · 03-03-2020 8:36am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Its around €1 million per crossing so such funding would transform the Limerick-Waterford line or any current line.

Spending 22m in Limerick J is madness for little return.

Managed to find the missing second part of the Irish Rail strategy.
Turns out both our proposals are estimated at €20m and expected to increase passengers by the same amount (100 per day) meaning your above statement is incorrect...

https://www.irishrail.ie/IrishRail/media/Imported/irishrail_28febfinal_part21.pdf

Isambard · 03-03-2020 8:45am

Geuze wrote: »

Looking at diagrams of the layout online just now.

Messy.

I see the direct LK-WD line has no actual platforms.

How far is the LK-WD line from the station?

Could platforms be built on the LK-WD line, as it crosses the mainline on a bridge?

And link these platforms to the main station?

Like Berlin-Sudkreuz.

the time to do this was when the new platform was built. IE has no intention of doing anything for the Waterford line except let it die.

Del.Monte · 03-03-2020 9:28am

thewexman93 wrote: »

What is "revisionist" about the way I have described the shunt? I've just watched a video from 1988 of that very shunt taking place.

Amazing, I actually watched it taking place on numerous occasions at Limerick Junction with no problems/delays.

Jamie2k9 · 03-03-2020 9:35am

Last Stop wrote: »

Managed to find the missing second part of the Irish Rail strategy.
Turns out both our proposals are estimated at €20m and expected to increase passengers by the same amount (100 per day) meaning your above statement is incorrect...

https://www.irishrail.ie/IrishRail/media/Imported/irishrail_28febfinal_part21.pdf

That report is flawed and outdated. Spending money on the line will deliver more benefits than upgrading Limerick Junction.

Last Stop · 03-03-2020 9:40am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

That report is flawed and outdated. Spending money on the line will deliver more benefits than upgrading Limerick Junction.

What proof do you have of that? It is a report written with input from Irish Rail. You may have your opinion but that doesn’t override fact.

Last Stop · 03-03-2020 9:45am

Isambard wrote: »

the time to do this was when the new platform was built. IE has no intention of doing anything for the Waterford line except let it die.

Jesus we love the Irish Rail bashing around here.
The time to do that was not when they built the new platform. The new platform was a relatively straightforward job which offered significant benefits.
Grade separating the junction is entirely different.

I don’t believe that it would be feasible given the distance between the platforms and the LK - WD mainline and more importantly the level difference required. Raising the track by 5m would cause problems to the direct curve to Heuston from LK for example.

Isambard · 03-03-2020 11:53am

you think that's IE bashing? I think it's a pro-rail stance.

loyatemu · 03-03-2020 3:21pm

Geuze wrote: »

Could platforms be built on the LK-WD line, as it crosses the mainline on a bridge?

pretty sure it crosses at grade?

IE 222 · 03-03-2020 8:35pm

How many people are actually travelling to Limerick Jct each day.

Last Stop · 03-03-2020 11:01pm

IE 222 wrote: »

How many people are actually travelling to Limerick Jct each day.

2056 boarding, 1951 alighting according to the census.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/National_Heavy_Rail_2019_FA_ONLINE.pdf

IE 222 · 04-03-2020 1:45pm

Last Stop wrote: »

2056 boarding, 1951 alighting according to the census.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/National_Heavy_Rail_2019_FA_ONLINE.pdf

Sorry I meant from the Waterford line. Is it known where the people using the line are actually travelling to. My guess would be demand is for travel into Waterford followed by onward travel to Dublin. In that instance would the service not be better off cutting the Limerick Jct aspect and running earlier services from Tipp into Waterford which can also connect with the 7:50 to Dublin.

The whole timetable is a shambles really giving connections to Tralee and Galway ect where if they just focused on Waterford, Dublin and maybe Limerick it would allow more flexibility.

Last Stop · 04-03-2020 2:06pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Sorry I meant from the Waterford line. Is it known where the people using the line are actually travelling to. My guess would be demand is for travel into Waterford followed by onward travel to Dublin. In that instance would the service not be better off cutting the Limerick Jct aspect and running earlier services from Tipp into Waterford which can also connect with the 7:50 to Dublin.

The whole timetable is a shambles really giving connections to Tralee and Galway ect where if they just focused on Waterford, Dublin and maybe Limerick it would allow more flexibility.

Why would anyone travel from Limerick junction to Waterford onto Dublin??

I agree regarding the timetable. You’d need to have all 3 timetables open to try and understand what’s going on

end of the road · 04-03-2020 3:19pm

Last Stop wrote: »

Why would anyone travel from Limerick junction to Waterford onto Dublin??

I agree regarding the timetable. You’d need to have all 3 timetables open to try and understand what’s going on

he is suggesting that an earlier morning service should be put on and run from tip town to waterford and connect into one of the morning dublin services from waterford, rather then run from limerick junction.
that might have merrit for traffic which would be going to waterford but for dublin traffic i would think your point probably still stands, it would be quicker i would expect to go to dublin via limerick junction.

IE 222 · 04-03-2020 9:05pm

end of the road wrote: »

he is suggesting that an earlier morning service should be put on and run from tip town to waterford and connect into one of the morning dublin services from waterford, rather then run from limerick junction.
that might have merrit for traffic which would be going to waterford but for dublin traffic i would think your point probably still stands, it would be quicker i would expect to go to dublin via limerick junction.

Depends where your boarding which why I'm quizzing where the actual numbers are travelling to. Using the Waterford service gets travelers into Dublin earlier.

Isambard · 05-03-2020 11:52am

end of the road wrote: »

he is suggesting that an earlier morning service should be put on and run from tip town to waterford and connect into one of the morning dublin services from waterford, rather then run from limerick junction.
that might have merrit for traffic which would be going to waterford but for dublin traffic i would think your point probably still stands, it would be quicker i would expect to go to dublin via limerick junction.

but if you were from Carrick, Clonmel or Cahir and the times worked....

They're all reasonably sized towns and deserve a better service

end of the road · 05-03-2020 3:31pm

Isambard wrote: »

but if you were from Carrick, Clonmel or Cahir and the times worked....

They're all reasonably sized towns and deserve a better service

sure, if it is actually quicker to go via waterford to dublin then that option should be available.

the line needs much earlier and later services and a lot more services as a whole.

tabbey · 05-03-2020 3:50pm

Last Stop wrote: »

Managed to find the missing second part of the Irish Rail strategy.
Turns out both our proposals are estimated at €20m and expected to increase passengers by the same amount (100 per day) meaning your above statement is incorrect...

https://www.irishrail.ie/IrishRail/media/Imported/irishrail_28febfinal_part21.pdf

This study is one by consultants, pure waffle.
Just look at the opening photo, it is of 8208, which belongs to NIR / Translink, not Irish Rail.

Last Stop · 06-03-2020 9:07am

tabbey wrote: »

This study is one by consultants, pure waffle.
Just look at the opening photo, it is of 8208, which belongs to NIR / Translink, not Irish Rail.

The vast majority of reports are done by consultants? They are the experts after all. This report was done for IR with input from IR about IR.
Isn’t the photo an enterprise train which is covered in the report? Not that a photo makes much difference anyway

New platform for Limerick junction

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