Bus Eireann routes 109/109A Changes

ailbheg wrote: »

This is what has been happening. If they don't have the reader/can't use it, it's not the passenger's fault. I find it hard to believe that there are still buses on these routes that don't have the new readers (and drivers that can't use them). It's almost 6 months since they started use on BÉ.

Most LDs are being fitted with new tgx machines.

ailbheg wrote: »

And there's the problem. Why not all? And why are they still being fitted nearly 6 months after introduction of Leap fares/tickets? Surely that should have been done before introducing Leap if they don't want to end up having to carry passengers for free.

Because they are bags of ****e with ten off the road at anyone time

gazzer wrote: »

Got to Busarus yesterday at 4pm to get the 4.30 109 to Virginia. At 4.15 a private bus pulled in and we were told to get on only if we were going to Virginia or Cavan town. Got on and the bus pulled out at 4.20. Went out by the Port Tunnel and out the M3. Was in Virginia for 5.40. If only this could happen every day commuting would not be as hard.

It could happen everyday,or at least more often Everyday,but only IF the fixation with the little old lady from Dunshaughlin?SheafOW waiting in the rain,above at St Peters Church/Blanchardstown SC can be addressed......;)...Who will think of St Peters Church ????

horseburger wrote: »

In fairness, a lot more people use those stops, for example at Dunshaughlin, and Blanchardstown, than a "little old lady".

I mentioned before, that a private company tried a daily Cavan - Virginia - Dublin service last October, and after four weeks it ended, so it would appear that there wasn't enough people using it.

It indicates that the passengers at Dunshaughlin, (and Kells and Navan) help sustain the 109 service.

If there were more 109 bus services direct to Virginia and Cavan, unless there are extra buses and drivers available, it would mean less buses covering Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin

The bus referred to above was a private coach, and sounds like it may have been an extra bus, to cater for more people that would be heading home at the weekend.

One of the main reasons that the private bus company was not sucessful was that they did not except bus passes and also commuters using Bus Eireann would have been using yearly bus passes so they were not going to change tp a private company and spend more money. It doesnt take away fron the fact that it is ridiculous that a bus from Cavan to Dublin takes up to 2 hours 20 minutes to get from A to B. The bus I got yesterday was 80% full so the demand is there.

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'd agree there Horseburger,perhaps the Virginia example was'nt best suited.
However,the need for a restructuring of the 109 to allow for an expansion of the DIRECT EXPRESS option still exists,and is gaining credence every day in this thread alone.

What appears to be frustrating most people is the amount of time the "Authorities" are taking to recognise the bloody-obvious...ie: the gazillions worth of Public Infrastructure known as the DP Tunnel,being studiously avoided EVERY DAY,when it could be utilized to massive effect to attract more customers to the 109 route.

As I said before,the topography of the Navan-Dublin route is no longer as it was in 1945 and the NTA/BE should recognize this asap..One way I feel needs to be investigated is the much greater Expansion/Integration of Dublin Bus's current services along this corridor with Express running 109 Journeys...This should now be seamless through the use of Leapcard....(Mind you I HAVE to emphasize the "Should" )

Hi AlekSmart, thanks for your reply.

just wondering, what type of service Dublin Bus would run.

How would a combined service between Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus operate. Would you be suggesting in a similar way as suggested recently by Irish Steve, where the 109 would head into the city centre and people for the stops in between Clonee and the city centre could take a Dublin Bus or other Bus Éireann services.

(http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88796573&postcount=616)

How far out of Dublin City are you suggesting Dublin Bus serve?

If Dublin Bus were to start running buses out as far as Dunshaughlin, for example, I couldn't imagine they'd run them as frequently as the 109 buses.

If Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus were to combine a service from Cavan, Navan, Dunshaughlin and Dublin, passengers getting off the 109 bus, to then take a Dublin bus service, would need to be sure that there'd be enough space on the Dublin Buses they intend to take, to accommodate them, or that they wouldn't be waiting too long for another bus. There are 109 buses to Dublin every half hour during the day serving Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin. How frequent would the Dublin Bus service be, that they'd be getting, when they alight the 109.

Where would passengers heading to Dublin, change services to take the Dublin Bus services. Would there be enough Dublin buses at this stop, to accommodate the number of passengers waiting, that they wouldn't be waiting too long.

When you mention direct services, do you mean more direct services between Navan and Dublin or Virginia and Dublin.

shannon82 who replied above, mentioned that the bus last Friday that went to Virginia, is an extra service on Friday evenings during the college term.

That suggests to me, that there might not be the same volume of passengers heading to Virginia at that time from Dublin, earlier in the week, to merit a daily direct service.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Basically have a mini transport hub in Dunsaughlin with an hourly Dublin bus service to and from Dunsaughlin, and then make the 109 non stop between busaras and Dunsaughlin. This will allow for all passengers between the city and Dunsaughlin to get to either busaras or Dunsaughlin for the bus and will cater for people being dropped off en route to the city centre in the mornings.

If the bus was hourly, the wait at Dunshaughlin would be far too long for anyone going to places like the Mater Hospital, Phibsboro and Blanchardstown,


There are buses every hour from Cavan to Dublin and buses that leave Kells at 15 minutes past the hour, so there's buses every 30 minutes from Kells, Navan, Dunshaughlin to Dublin.


If a service like you have described, was to operate between Dunshaughlin and Dublin, there would be passengers waiting at Dunshaughlin for places like the Mater Hospital, Phibsborough and Blanchardstown, relying on there being no traffic delays to and from Dublin.

For example, what if anyone for Blanchardtown or Phibsboro were to arrive in Dunshaughlin, from Cavan, Kells or Navan on the 109, minutes after one of the hourly buses they hope to get, has already left and then have to wait almost another hour within which they may see another 109 arrive to let anyone out, who isn't going direct to the city centre.

I can't really see Dublin Bus being much interested in doing a service as far out of Dublin as Dunshaughlin
.

Irish Steve wrote: »

.
Realistically, DB should be operating out to Dunshaughlin, and also covering Ratoath and Ashbourne, with routes to places like Swords, and the Airport, as well as routes that allow cross city travel without having to go into the centre, but the parochialism of both organisations is going to block something sensible like that from happening. If the M50 had been properly built, it would be feasible to have feeder routes that then connect with services on the M50, but that's now not going to be easy at places like Red Cow, because there's no easy way to get off and back on to the M50 without a significant diversion, which would slow things down too much.

I saw a thread about a commute from Clondalkin to Swords that takes a couple of hours each way, that's insane, even a link using the park and ride at Red Cow, with a link then on the M50 to somewhere like the Airport, and on to Swords, has to be faster than going into the centre and out again, especially at peak periods, where the dwell times at stops can be horrendous.

To me, there should be an interchange facility somewhere close to the M50 on all the main routes, which would be served by the long distance services, which would facilitate access (via LEAP) to other (BE or DB) routes without having to deal with the last few miles to Busaras, and the long distance routes should wherever possible use limited stop routes into the city from the M50 onwards. It would need some planning, and that's where the problem starts, there seems to be no coordination between the different service providers, and no higher level state organisation to bang their heads together hard in order to get a sensible structure on to the services.

With Dublin Bus having a long established route to Dunboyne (70),the knowledge of a world beyant Blanch is already there.

Extending/modifying the BAC70 would be a good starting point,but the key is in this Coordination thing.....

Leapcard already has the long awaited Multi-Operator Capping in place,and the Multi-Journey Discounting is......"Imminent"...so what the fluích is keeping them ???

The interaction between BAC/BE would not present any great issues once the Direction had been given,however,by far and away the greatest impediment lies with the NTA actually taking on the mantle of the "Higher Level State Organization" referred to by Irish Steve.

It will,of course,require ADDED resources,which appears to be a major issue for the NTA,as it entails effectively supporting the "Market Dominance" of the existing CIE Operators.

When faced with a choice in this matter,the NTA appear to favour the traditional Irish Administrative approach of doing nothing ?

For example,the newly announced BAC Tender competition for up to 200 new vehicles in 2015 appears to be for REPLACEMENT rather than augmentation purposes.

http://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=74725&B=&PS=1&PP=

Bearing in mind that the Kells M3 corridor is the ONLY Dublin Commuter route which is at "Saturation Level",ie: where anybody who possess a driving licence actually HAS regular access to a Motor Vehhicle,this alone should have allowed a massive Red Flag to be planted on the Fairgreen !

There is/should also be considerable scope for inventive forward thinking planning available via the "Swiftway" BRT project,which with a little creativity could well bring some relief to the Navan Corridor.

It's far from being rocket science,as many posters here will freely praise the "Express Service" scenario,particularly operating via the DPT...this means that a very large element to solving this problem IS already in existence and operating successfully.....albeit well concealed from the hordes of the great 109 unwashed who can't make that 1730 Busaras deadline !!! :rolleyes:

Our national administration technique is to Simplify the Complex and Complicate the Simple.....The 109 is a shining example of this in operation !

Irish Steve wrote: »

The sensible place to have the interchange would be the rail station at Pace, and a lot of this could be done with BE on their own, the 105 and 109 cover the same roads, and run to similar times, and don't diverge until the roundabout at the Trim Road/Fairyhouse Road junction.

I still maintain that the 109 should run Busaras to Pace via DPT non stop, with a connection option at Pace, and the 105 then can serve the intermediate stops like the hospital (it doesn't at the moment) and other places, with DB also providing service from Pace. The whole thing needs some joined up thinking, which seems to be sadly lacking at BE, there are times when 3 different buses(103,105 & 109A) go down the Ballybin road from Ashbourne to Ratoath within minutes of each other, which is crazy scheduling, either have a hub in Ashbourne to allow interchange between the 3, or change some of the timings, one bus between these 2 places is more than enough off peak.

Realistically, DB should be operating out to Dunshaughlin, and also covering Ratoath and Ashbourne, with routes to places like Swords, and the Airport, as well as routes that allow cross city travel without having to go into the centre, but the parochialism of both organisations is going to block something sensible like that from happening. If the M50 had been properly built, it would be feasible to have feeder routes that then connect with services on the M50, but that's now not going to be easy at places like Red Cow, because there's no easy way to get off and back on to the M50 without a significant diversion, which would slow things down too much.

I saw a thread about a commute from Clondalkin to Swords that takes a couple of hours each way, that's insane, even a link using the park and ride at Red Cow, with a link then on the M50 to somewhere like the Airport, and on to Swords, has to be faster than going into the centre and out again, especially at peak periods, where the dwell times at stops can be horrendous.

To me, there should be an interchange facility somewhere close to the M50 on all the main routes, which would be served by the long distance services, which would facilitate access (via LEAP) to other (BE or DB) routes without having to deal with the last few miles to Busaras, and the long distance routes should wherever possible use limited stop routes into the city from the M50 onwards. It would need some planning, and that's where the problem starts, there seems to be no coordination between the different service providers, and no higher level state organisation to bang their heads together hard in order to get a sensible structure on to the services.

Edit: Do you mean that the 109A and 105 run the same roads, (just wondering if you meant the 109A, as the 109 doesn't cover Ashbourne or Ratoath)

have you sent in your suggestions to Bus Éireann and the NTA, what has been the response

I would say the they would be receptive to your ideas for the routes.

Dublin bus have been after the Ashbourne and Naas routh for awhile. BE's VWD's and DD's cover Ashbourne so maybe they could do Dunshocklen (however it's spelt) aswell?

Commuter109 wrote: »

Have had a woeful few days of it with our friends in BE,

Bus last Friday that arrived late, broke down and all in all took nearly 2 hours to get to Navan.

A 4.15 with a timetabled time of 1 hour and 5 to Navan, reality being in excess of an hour an half, and full of examples of all that is wrong with the 109 route at present, including people getting on at the Blanch slip road to head to Lidl in Clonee, and people getting on in Clonee itself.

Then the old sneaky 6.52 bus today, i.e although they have a 6.45 and 7 .00 service as per timetable, so they take one bus stick in on around 7.50 and no one knows the difference! Interesting that it was only half full even though it was two scheduled services. While shortly before hand they had run a half bus as the Navan 6.30 express.

Did a quick headcount at 6.25 the other day, people in queue for 6.30 express 41, people waiting for the 6.30 ordinary coach 7. When will the penny drop!

There is a gap of one hour between the Dublin Bus service, that covers Blanchardstown to Clonee, when it leaves the terminus, between 4.15pm and 5.15pm (they are hourly from 9.15am), so that might explain why they opted to take the Bus Éireann service from Blanchardstown back to Clonee.

Have you contacted Dublin Bus, to see if they would cover more regularly, the areas that you are unhappy with Bus Éireann covering on the 109 service.

What response did you get?

Where were the people who got on in Clonee going?

Is there another bus service you would suggest to them, in order to return to Dunshaughlin or Navan?

AlekSmart wrote: »

A timetabled headway of 1h 05m for a stage-carriage service departure at 1615 is highly unrealistic,and persevering with printing and disseminating it only reduces whatever stature an operator has....:rolleyes:

At this juncture,contacting BAC/BE in relation to the broader issues of Service Provision is largely fruitless...The ONLY show in Town (or Country ) in this regard is the NTA.

I know that the NTA would be more responsive, I have suggested people contact the NTA, to make their queries regarding bus services, in previous posts.

The point is, Commuter109 was being critical of passengers using the bus to go to Clonee, then criticised why they were going to Clonee - their reasons for using the bus are irrelevant - and then criticised the fact that people got on in Clonee.

If 109 passengers are unhappy with the use of intermediate stops, and then suggest that Dublin Bus should cover those routes, they should make contact with Dublin Bus to argue their case and find out if Dublin Bus are receptive to the idea of increasing their services to those locations.

I mentioned before, that all passengers, no matter where they are coming from or going to, contribute to the bus services.

I haven't received a response from Commuter109 with regard to what other bus service from Clonee, that passengers from there, would take, to destinations beyond Dunboyne, like Dunshaughlin or Navan.

I suspect at the end of the day, that the amount of money available is dictating what can and cannot be operated in terms of subsidised services.

The NTA has a shrinking pot of funds available to pay for these services with PSO subsidies dropping year upon year, and while I understand the frustrations of Navan users, the NTA also have an obligation to provide a service to everyone else along the N3 corridor too.

That ultimately is why we have the situation that we do.

horseburger wrote: »

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me.

Fair enough, on the points you make.

I still maintain that rather than being critical of the fact that people in Dunshaughlin and Clonee use the 109 service, the only way to solve the issue is by making contact with Dublin Bus or the NTA.

What alternative transport is available to people at those stops, for example, from Clonee back to places like Navan and Dunshaughlin?

If people who only use the 109 direct from Navan to Dublin are unhappy with intermediate stops like Clonee, they need to find out if Dublin Bus are willing to serve those places far more frequently.

It was suggested before, by Commuter109, to remove Dunshaughlin from the 109 service and have Dublin Bus serve Dunshaughlin like Clonee.

The Dublin Bus number 70 Clonee service is far less frequent than the 109 service, and on Sundays the Dublin Clonee service is every two hours.

I'm sure Dunshaughlin residents, along with passengers who get the 109 at the various stops between Navan and Dunshaughlin - would be considerably unhappy if such a change was implemented.

Not everyone lives near town centre bus stops.

What other bus service would be available to people who use the bus stops at Kilcarn Bridge, Tara, Lismullen, Garlow Cross, Ross Cross, if the 109 omitted Dunshaughlin and was only direct from Navan to Dublin?

Unless some enterprising operator wishes to have a punt at registering a stand-alone Commercial Service for those "In Betweenies" then it's down to the NTA to PSO the thing.....In the current climate that is highly unlikely,but NOT impossible.

Dublin Bus - Bus Eireann,for their part will do what the NTA DIRECTS them to do (The key word here is "DIRECTS" ) in terms of the PSO obligation...the issue is convincing the NTA that a FAR better level of "109 Express" journeys is worth the trade off against a reduction of service to the "In Betweeners"....Winners vs Losers I'm afraid,but I cannot see an alternative.

My own perception is of a significant amount of POTENTIAL,currently private car using,business in and around the Kells/Navan catchment area,who would be very willing to make a modal-switch IF the "109 Express" performance levels were more readily available on a daily basis.

Looking through the BE 109 timetable,that Single "Via the Port-Tunnel and M50 " note does rather stick-out.

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1318429077-109.pdf

Currently,we read so many accounts of ad-hoc "helps" and assorted Hacker operated duties which,whilst very necessary,would also appear to indicate that the NTA/BE agreed Service Level on the 109 is NOT fulfilling the 21st Century Commuters expectations.

There is also some quite well informed discussion from 2013 here..some of which may be informative..... http://irishtransport.yuku.com/topic/5177/Dublin-Coach-New-service#.Uza1v4VCO1s


Again,I suggest that VERY significant and,potentially business-building,improvements could be made in very short order,but ONLY if some eggs can be cracked to cook the Omlette...that cracking may well discommode the "In-Betweeners",but in the absence of unlimited € € € €,do we have any reasonable alternatives ?

tom23 wrote: »

Was wishy washy a woman? You ask a lot of naive questions horse burger, like who in their right mind is going to ask another commuter would you mind not using this bus because I am unhappy that transport policy from the authority does not take into account that it is not acceptable to be spending 1.5 hours travelling 30 kilometres.

Regardless bus eireann should not be offering that service from blanch to clonee because bus eireann is a regional bus service therefore it should act like one, if the Nta want a joined up public transport network they need better solutions than simply adding mileage in to bus routes.

What question was naïve?

Commuter109 mentioned that apart from people using it between Blanchardstown and Clonee, that people got on in Clonee, on the bus coming from Dublin.

My question was - considering that passengers got on the bus in Clonee and that they would have been going to either Dunshaughlin or Navan, or if not either town, one of the stops on the route - if the 109 bus stopped serving Clonee, what other form of regular public transport could they take from Clonee to these stops or to Dunshaughlin or Navan?

Is that a naïve question?

Is it naïve to suggest to anyone unhappy with that 109 service operating to and from Dunshaughlin and Clonee, that they should enquire about alternatives, to Dublin Bus - the company they are saying should serve those towns?

And then find out if Dublin Bus are willing to run more frequent services to and from those locations?

Is it naïve to ask of people who want to go direct from Navan town centre to Dublin and avoid Dunshaughlin, what service would they put in place for passengers on the various stops between Navan and Dunshaughlin and from Dunshaughlin to Dublin?

Perhaps you could try and answer these, rather than making a stupid comment, like the one you did in the first five words of your reply?

I also pointed out, with reference to the comment made about passengers reasons for going to Clonee, that if the service is there, passengers reasons to use any bus service is of no relevance to any other passenger.

Commuter109 wrote: »

Sounds like fun in Kells and Navan this Morning!

LX flyer - I'm not disagreeing with what you say , the point been repeatedly made here is that all not all centres of population have the same requirements. The running of probably in excess of 40 buses a day via sheaf of wheat is criminal, as is the underutilisation of the infrastructure that is in place. BE told me in writing in 2011 that they had researched that stop and were of the opinion that 4 services would be adequate/ justified.

Horseburger, where do I start, you have probably noticed that as a rule I don't respond to your posts for reasons probably obvious to most, but given that the day that's in it why not!

Re your latest post, I pointed out what I perceived to be wrong with the r109 route and you directly equate this to being criticising people and their reasons for using the bus? Seriously

That said you have had some very useful insights to date,

"I know that every so often a bus due may not arrive in Navan at the time scheduled, but I found that there were other factors that caused this, like an accident or other traffic delays"

"What often occurs is that as a bus pulls out of the gate area, once it closes its doors and starts moving, a passenger may come out to the bus just as it is leaving"

"I guess the reason that the bus sometimes arrives at the final destination later than stated on the timetable is because of the traffic that is encountered going to and from Dublin city centre"
And some cracking insightful questions into the barging, my personal favourite has to be
"Do you know if the heavy traffic going out through Phibsboro and Cabra in the early evenings could be dealt with in any way. It wouldn't be so bad going that route and wouldn't take anywhere near as long".
I could go on but I wouldn't. At least most people here will specify their reason for participating, i.e. we have Navan or kells commuters travelling at peak times, we have people who have actually drive for BE etc..
I'm not sure if you live in Sheaf of Wheat or work for BE or what the agenda is. Have you used a 109 or do you just read timetables? Why not let us know what your interaction with this service is?
You also oddly have apparently huge faith in the customer service departments of NTA and BE, which is odd as nobody else on this thread or baord in general appear to have. Maybe as opposed to constant repeating the mantra of Did you ask BE, Did you ask Dublin Bus, did you ask NTA, Did you ask the driver, what response did you get?, you might act as a conduit for us, as in your own words there are people that are too aggressive for the big bad state entity, and maybe thats why they wouldnt respond. I think you might have the magic touch.
Anyway you're unlikely to hear from me again, so take care!

Lots of assumptions there, Commuter109, just like the one you made before, about anyone getting the buses later on at night being in town just to go "boozing".

But that doesn't surprise me, since you have criticised other passengers' reasons for using buses, as if those reasons were relevant.

Why else would you mention the business to which they were going when they got off in Clonee, other than to be negative about their reasons to use the service?

Obviously, the reason I mentioned dealing with the heavy traffic heading out towards Phibsborough, is because if that could be sorted, there'd be less of a delay on the buses at that time of day.

I mentioned the possibility that Bus Éireann might reason, that they get enough people using the stops out towards Phibsborough throughout the whole day and evening, to and from Dublin, to merit using those stops.

I also gave the example of how there are no delays going out the same route later on in the day.

I mentioned that example of the bus pulling out of the gate at Bus Aras, with the passenger nearby, and despite the driver seeing a passenger, them not being permitted on, because that happened to me. It was explained to me by an inspector that once the doors are closed on the bus, and the bus has started to reverse as it is leaving, that the drivers, due to a health and safety rule, are instructed not to let passengers board the bus.

I mentioned this example in reply to a passenger who had detailed before Christmas that one evening they had hailed the bus down outside the bus station after it left the gate and came round to the main entrance side, where the driver did not let them board the bus.

I mentioned what the inspector told me, as a possible reason for what happened.

But then you conveniently decided to omit, in your reply, the context of what I had written, including the follow on sentences I had included, which explained what I was writing about.

I also mentioned the timetable scheduling, with regard to traffic, because the buses are able to stick to the listed times at night when there is no heavy traffic.

The 109 at 11.30pm gets into Navan at 12.35am, which is the time stated on the timetable. I also gave the examples of the 109A service being very punctual to and from the airport.

I mentioned the traffic and possible accidents in relation to the times the buses arrive in Navan, to differentiate between the buses that leave Cavan, and those that start in Kells.

I find that the buses that leave Cavan on the hour are generally in Navan about 10 past or 15 past the following hour, due, I guess, to traffic.

They sometimes are in Navan at 5 past the hour as scheduled, but generally its about 10 past, with the 190 Drogheda service due at 10 past the hour pulling in around the same time, but that the buses that start in Kells at 15 past the hour are in Navan shortly before 35 past the hour, which is as listed on the timetable.

You are pretty good at repeating stuff yourself.

You are the one constantly complaining about the intermediate stops.

Why haven't you looked into contacting Dublin Bus to see if they will serve those stops?

You made the comment about Dublin Bus serving Dunshaughlin, without detailing if it would be viable, instead saying Dunshaughlin should have a service like the Clonee Dublin Bus route which is a lot less frequent.

How else would you improve a service other than discussing it with its operators?

What purpose is served whinging on this message board, if you are unwilling to make any enquiries about this stuff?

How can you request of Bus Éireann to implement more 109 express services, without considering alternatives for the intermediate stops covered on the route?

You still haven't answered my question about what service would be put in place for stops in between Navan and Dunshaughlin, and also to and from Clonee if both places were avoided on the 109.

You obviously have a disregard for people who use the buses at times later on in the day. I made the point before, that Bus Éireann wouldn't run the buses throughout the whole day and evening, if they weren't contributing to the sustainability of the service.

With regard to your criticism of my suggestion of contacting Dublin Bus or Bus Éireann, you have decided to conveniently ignore that I have also done so, to acknowledge where other posters here have written constructive suggestions for the route, for example the various detailed suggestions by foggy_lad, Irish Steve and Aleksmart recently.

Also, you shouldn't be concerned with other people's opinions on my replies, and shouldn't assume that everyone else agrees with everything you say, in your attempts to undermine what I have written.

Your brand of smart arsed-ness is the type of thing, of which I was speaking, when I made the comment about Bus Éireann possibly not being responsive to people constantly criticising them, without considering why they operate routes in specific ways.

The Maverick wrote: »

This service is very punctual to and from the airport after around 8 pm at night but it is one of the worst services I have ever encountered during the day time, routinely being up to 40 minutes late. This is, as you say, due to there being heavier traffic during the day.

However, "heavy traffic" is a terrible, terrible excuse for such a consistently late bus service. This "heavy traffic" is not an occasional one-off, it affects this bus for five days every week during the exact same times yet Bus Eireann's timetables do not reflect any difference in journey times between getting the bus from Kells at 3.50 am and the peak time of 6.50 am. How is this possible?

Anytime I have taken the 109A at different times of the day, its taken about an hour to get from Navan, through Dunshaughlin, Ratoath, Ashbourne and to the airport. This includes times I got the 7.10am, 3.10pm at 6.10pm from Navan, and the 5.20am from the airport back to Navan.

I had expected getting the 7.10am from Navan would be delayed but it got to the airport shortly before 8.15am.

I know the traffic is a problem on the 109 route through Phibsborough around 4pm-6pm, I wasn't trying to make excuses for it.

My guess is they schedule the list of stops on their timetables to reflect how their buses run without any traffic congestion.

The Maverick wrote: »

Well either you were very lucky or I spent a year of my life being very unlucky.

Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus (I think) do schedule their buses based on off peak travel times, which is very irritating indeed, particularly for routes that are nearly guaranteed to hit traffic congestion at peak times. Apologies though, I got the impression you were trying to defend the 109's punctuality by citing unexpected heavy traffic as a valid excuse.

I'm not sure they'd have any other way of listing the times for scheduled services, because if they scheduled them according to traffic, if there are differences in the strength of the congestion on different days, it'd be very hard for passengers to predict when a bus is due.

An example of this, with Dublin Bus, is the congestion down Wexford St, Aungier St and George's St, on Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights, when it's full of taxis going down towards Westmoreland St.

The times of the buses on the timetables at the Dublin Bus stops, as far as I know, are the times that the buses leave the terminus.

The real time displays are very useful in this regard, for example with the Dublin Bus services. When the 109 comes into Phibsborough and Berkeley Road, into O'Connell St, it can be read from the bus as it goes by the various Dublin Bus stops, when for example the 122s, 140s, 46As, 16s and 9s are due.

Have the delays you have encountered, occurred after the 109A leaves the airport in the mornings heading down towards Collins Avenue and on to Ashbourne?

What I have noticed with delays going to the airport during the day, is that it's usually when the buses come from city centre. For example, the hourly Belfast buses leaving Bus Aras, due at the airport at 20 past the hour, can take over 20 minutes to get there, whereas at night it gets there within 20 minutes, as do the Donegal number 30 Bus that leaves Bus Aras at midnight and the Dundalk 100X bus that leaves Customs House Quay at midnight, both usually getting to the airport before 20 past midnight.

With regard to the traffic congestion, some people here are suggesting that Bus Éireann avoid the various stops that the 109 makes out roads with this traffic at those times, but in order to argue their case, they need to also suggest, if such a change in the service was made, what other service - other than suggesting people make their way into the city centre which is an impractical suggestion for anyone in Blanchardstown who are going to Dunshaughlin, Navan, Kells or Cavan on the 109 - would be put in place for people, who use those stops between Bus Aras and Blanchardstown.

On that issue, of possible alternatives, there have been positive suggestions from posters here for example in recent posts by foggy_lad, Irish Steve and Aleksmart, which I think would be worthwhile to send in to the two bus companies and the NTA.