Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Renting Land with Entitlements - Benefits for a non-farmer?

Options
  • 19-01-2021 12:23pm
    #1
    abnormalnorman
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭


    Hi,
    I know a lot about working a farm, but know absolutely nothing about owning a farm (tax , entitlements etc).

    Looking at renting land now, for the first time. Just as a hobby. Iv got a full-time job. I dont have any other land / farm. Iv no green cert done.

    Iv no herd number etc yet. But plan on getting all that sorted over time. Land im looking at renting has a shed, yard and crush.

    It also has "entitlements". €3.5k im told.

    What does that mean for me? Do I actually get the €3.5k in the post? or is it just tax relief?

    And if im looking to pay say €100 per acre a year to rent this land - do i just add the 3.5k on to it , give it to the landowner, and get it back from government payment later?

    Any advice appreciated.
    Tagged:


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,486 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    I’m curious as to how much land and what you plan to do with it ?


  • Options
    #3
    abnormalnorman
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭abnormalnorman


    _Brian wrote: »
    I’m curious as to how much land and what you plan to do with it ?

    30 acres - just for a a bit a rootin!!


  • Options
    #4
    abnormalnorman
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭abnormalnorman


    abnormalnorman wrote: »
    Hi,
    I know a lot about working a farm, but know absolutely nothing about owning a farm (tax , entitlements etc).

    Looking at renting land now, for the first time. Just as a hobby. Iv got a full-time job. I dont have any other land / farm. Iv no green cert done.

    Iv no herd number etc yet. But plan on getting all that sorted over time. Land im looking at renting has a shed, yard and crush.

    It also has "entitlements". €3.5k im told.

    What does that mean for me? Do I actually get the €3.5k in the post? or is it just tax relief?

    And if im looking to pay say €100 per acre a year to rent this land - do i just add the 3.5k on to it , give it to the landowner, and get it back from government payment later?

    Any advice appreciated.

    so no one knows then?! :o


  • Options
    #5
    Hyland17
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭Hyland17


    Are you planning on stocking the land? Is it going to be on a long term lease? I know around here say 100x30= 3000 for rent. Entitlements are usually 60% of value of you are renting them from owner so that's 2187. Really depends on what you sign up to. Some look for it all up front.


  • Options
    #6
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    It also has "entitlements". €3.5k im told.

    What does that mean for me? Do I actually get the €3.5k in the post? or is it just tax relief?

    And if im looking to pay say €100 per acre a year to rent this land - do i just add the 3.5k on to it , give it to the landowner, and get it back from government payment later?

    You get the 3.5k into your bank account. Generally 70% in Oct, the remainder in December - if there are no issues...

    But, you pay an agreed % of the 3.5k back to the owner, I have heard of 75%, but I dont really know for sure.

    I think anyone can claim entitlements, you dont need to be a qualified farmer. But I think you do need to be qualified to apply for any schemes?
    You should check this out...

    Best of luck!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    abnormalnorman
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭abnormalnorman


    Hyland17 wrote: »
    Are you planning on stocking the land? Is it going to be on a long term lease? I know around here say 100x30= 3000 for rent. Entitlements are usually 60% of value of you are renting them from owner so that's 2187. Really depends on what you sign up to. Some look for it all up front.

    Thanks Hyland. Yes I plan on stocking it. Long-ish term lease - at least 5 years. maybe 10.


  • Options
    #8
    abnormalnorman
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭abnormalnorman


    Dinzee Conlee wrote: »
    You get the 3.5k into your bank account. Generally 70% in Oct, the remainder in December - if there are no issues...

    But, you pay an agreed % of the 3.5k back to the owner, I have heard of 75%, but I dont really know for sure.

    Best of luck!

    Sorry - i dont understand. So what your saying, I will need to give the owner back some % of the entitlements? Perhaps up to €75% . . . Even tho im paying the owner the 100 per acre , or whatever the price would be?

    Is that correct?

    Then would the owner not just be as well off keep the entitlements in his name? And reduce the rent price for me?


  • Options
    #9
    Hyland17
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭Hyland17


    That's what I was getting at too. You will have to pay a % of the entitlements back to the owner. Depends what agreement you come too. That estimate I gave you is roughly what the owner expects to get. 3000+2187=5187. It's a very rough guess as don't know what your agreement is. The best advice I can give is talk to an advisor. They can guide you on the going rates. Depending on where your located the land might be eligible for anc and could top you up by close to 1000e. An advisor is your best bet.


  • Options
    #10
    abnormalnorman
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭abnormalnorman


    Hyland17 wrote: »
    That's what I was getting at too. You will have to pay a % of the entitlements back to the owner. Depends what agreement you come too. That estimate I gave you is roughly what the owner expects to get. 3000+2187=5187. It's a very rough guess as don't know what your agreement is. The best advice I can give is talk to an advisor. They can guide you on the going rates. Depending on where your located the land might be eligible for anc and could top you up by close to 1000e. An advisor is your best bet.

    okay, thanks. You mean like a Teagasc advisor?


  • Options
    #11
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    abnormalnorman wrote: »
    Sorry - i dont understand. So what your saying, I will need to give the owner back some % of the entitlements? Perhaps up to €75% . . . Even tho im paying the owner the 100 per acre , or whatever the price would be?

    Is that correct?

    Then would the owner not just be as well off keep the entitlements in his name? And reduce the rent price for me?

    So, to claim 1 entitlement means you have to be farming 1 hectare of land. You complete a form in mid May to declare the number of Ha you are farming.

    If you are not farming any land, you cannot claim the entitlements. You can however lease entitlements - there is a specific form for this.

    Think of entitlements as like dividends on shares, but you have to actively managing the share, to get the dividend every year...

    So, in your case, you would be farming the land, not the farmer. So you would complete the (online) form mid May, and you would be paid the entitlements.

    As suggested above, I think your best bet would be to talk to an advisor


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,114 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Technically you are supposed to be an active farmer to claim BPS.

    But from what I remember the definition of that covers practically anyone who is growing anything.


  • Options
    #13
    Sacrolyte
    Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭Sacrolyte


    Have you already agreed the terms of this arrangement with the land owner because that €100 seems very low unless it’s boggy.


  • Options
    #14
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Hyland17 wrote: »
    That's what I was getting at too. You will have to pay a % of the entitlements back to the owner. Depends what agreement you come too. That estimate I gave you is roughly what the owner expects to get. 3000+2187=5187. It's a very rough guess as don't know what your agreement is. The best advice I can give is talk to an advisor. They can guide you on the going rates. Depending on where your located the land might be eligible for anc and could top you up by close to 1000e. An advisor is your best bet.

    forgive my ignorance but why does the tenant not just keep 100% of subsidies and pay the land owner a higher rent ?


  • Options
    #15
    Hyland17
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭Hyland17


    Afaik and open to correction it has some sort of tax implications as the owner can't gift entitlements. All paperwork will have to be submitted anyways for entitlements. I'm not an Agri advisor so don't take my word for it. I'm sure there's more to it. I know there's something with leasing out entitlements. 2 year rule thing but not up to date on it. An Agri advisor is money well spent in these situations.


  • Options
    #16
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,114 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    forgive my ignorance but why does the tenant not just keep 100% of subsidies and pay the land owner a higher rent ?




    You could if you want.

    But the tenant would then be fecked if there was a new reference period and they evaporated. They'd be stuck paying higher rent and zero income on the entitlement side.

    Why would you not pay 100%? Because you want the tenant to have skin in the game as well. If the contract just says the tenant has to pay 100% of all BPS received from the entitlement, sure then they have no incentive to claim it. They can just not bother and hand over 100% of the zero received.


  • Options
    #17
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    farming is very interesting , i wonder if i could collect subsidies on all of two acres ( i keep a handful of sheep each season so i have a flock number ) ?

    i have a small modest sheep crush as well if that makes any difference ( was there when i bought ) but no sheds bar a small shed for turf ?

    probably not worth the hassle


Advertisement