Angry Gay Man

Victor · 02-12-2002 11:18pm #1

I know this may thread on toes, but I think it is better to have the conversation than not.

I'm just wondering, from reading the "Adoption" topic, is there a phenomenon of the "Angry Gay Man" (a reference to the 1970s Angry Young Men in the UK), who demands rights, not because of their merits, but because they are gay? Those who are shouting loud, but their message is not being heard, simply because it is shouted and not rationalised.

Surely Adoption is an Adoption issue (I know there isn't a board - no trolls on this please), not a gay issue?

Shinji · 03-12-2002 12:16am

Er, yeah, to a degree this phenomenon exists - look at extremist gay groups like Outrage in the UK. That being said there are also definite cases of discrimination on the grounds of sexuality so it's to be expected that there are swings too far in the other direction as well.

I have no bloody idea what you're on about with regard to the adoption thread though. Someone asked about the idea of homosexual couples adopting children, that is very much an issue for this board and not for the "Adoption" board that doesn't exist. If you have a problem with the issue being discussed here or in that context, nobody is forcing you to read it!

Victor · 03-12-2002 12:20am

Originally posted by Shinji
I have no bloody idea what you're on about with regard to the adoption thread though.

It comes across as "I'm gay, give me adoption rights" as opposed to "I am a caring, financially stable, well adjusted adult interested in adopting a child (who just happens to be gay)".

Shinji · 03-12-2002 12:34am

Having read over the thread again, I think that's very much your own bias showing rather than anything in that thread coming through.

At present "a caring, financially stable, well adjusted adult interested in adopting a child (who just happens to be gay)" cannot adopt a child. The thread is about whether this should continue to be the case. At no point was the viewpoint you've just accused people of holding raised.

BuffyBot · 03-12-2002 1:38am

Originally posted by Victor
It comes across as "I'm gay, give me adoption rights" as opposed to "I am a caring, financially stable, well adjusted adult interested in adopting a child (who just happens to be gay)".

I don't really think so either. I think both sides have put reasoned arguments across. Now these arguments may or may not be correct, but I do not think anyone has resorted to that sort of foot-stamping.

DeVore · 03-12-2002 2:55pm

In every activist cause there are people who are fvcktards who will shout and scream and burn stuff to get attention. Usually to the detriment of their "cause"

What gender person you like to go to bed with is unlikely to alter the standard distribution of such people.

Talliesin · 03-12-2002 3:08pm

Actually "I'm gay, give me [the same] adoption rights" is a perfectly valid point.

It pisses me off that I couldn't adopt if I was in a relationship with a man. That doesn't mean I have plans to get divorced, shack up with the first gay man with parental instincts I come across, and start adopting batches of orphans.

It means that there is some ****heads judging one's choice of partners (and in the case of gays and lesbians, rather than bi's, all partners) on a totally spurious basis and making judgements that affect a major part of one's lives on it.

If you're queer and that doesn't piss you off then you are a doormat.

Jak · 03-12-2002 3:31pm

It means that there is some ****heads judging one's choice of partners (and in the case of gays and lesbians, rather than bi's, all partners) on a totally spurious basis and making judgements that affect a major part of one's lives on it.

If you're queer and that doesn't piss you off then you are a doormat.

Point in case of the "Angry Straight Man" existing also.

Talliesin · 03-12-2002 3:35pm

/me get's all angry at Jak for not identifying him as an angry bi man

Victor · 03-12-2002 6:53pm

Originally posted by Shinji
I think that's very much your own bias showing rather than ...

Perception maybe, bias I hope not.

Talliesin · 04-12-2002 12:42pm

Of course that perception is based on a debate over a contentious issue. Righteous anger has it's place, but that doesn't mean that the people who feel angry over such issues go through their entire lives with a chip on their shoulder.

meglome · 04-12-2002 1:01pm

There are activists in every area of life. Personally I'm nervous of people with extreme views… about their motivations. I've never been a huge fan of positive discrimination but I do see that sometimes there is no other way to get people to do the right thing.

As for the adoption issue it's about suitability not sexuality.

Talliesin · 04-12-2002 1:11pm

There are activists in every area of life.

Yes, and ever since the Campaign to Replace Jumping Up And Down with Fire as a Way to Heat the Cave (which has a crap acronym, but they were pre-literate, so that didn't matter) activists have done a lot of good

There is a stereotype of activists as incapable of anything other than having opinions about stuff. Largely because that is what they do in a public role. When Larry Kramer was being interviewed on television would it have made more sense for him to:

Talk about Gay Rights and AIDS activism.
Talk about his favourite song from the current Top 20 singles.

That doesn't mean he didn't have an opinion of the current Top 20 singles, just that it would have left the music journalists to write about Act-Up

As for adoption issue it's about suitability not sexuality.

Unfortunately the authorities don't always agree. That's why people get angry.

Angry Gay Man

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