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OneBigSwitch.ie Bulk Buying for Electricity

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    #92
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    For people who can switch from the current supplier without penalty - this offer of 10% off Bord Gais plus 80 euro cashback is only a saving of €44 over 12 months compared to the cheapest deal from Electric Ireland. You have to stick with BG for 12 months to get the €80 - (if you remember) and there is no guarantee that prices won't go up before the 12 months are up. Plus you have the added hassle of using a middleman and the liklihood of loads of spam emails and calls .


    Bord Gais Energy is being taken over soon by Centrica - so who knows what might happen to prices after he summer ? http://www.moneyguideireland.com/bord-gais-energy-sell-off-was-it-a-bargain-for-centrica.html


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    #93
    TireeTerror
    Registered Users Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭TireeTerror


    Ogham wrote: »
    Bord Gais Energy is being taken over soon by Centrica - so who knows what might happen to prices after he summer ? http://www.moneyguideireland.com/bord-gais-energy-sell-off-was-it-a-bargain-for-centrica.html

    There has been a huge drop in commission paid to Bord Gais agents for obtaining new customers, so something is about to change. I would hang on and see what happens. At least one advantage of signing up with BG is that there isnt a contract, so if youre not getting any discount with your current provider, switch to BG, if there is a huge increase when Centrica (British Gas) fully take over the operation, then you can switch away without penalty. All of the other providers will lock you into a 12 month contract and there would be a penalty if you left before the term expires.


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    #94
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    TireeTerror wrote: »
    There has been a huge drop in commission paid to Bord Gais agents for obtaining new customers, so something is about to change.

    BG probably spent all the marketing budget with OneBigSwitch !

    Re: Gas - BG don't want any new gas customers - they want people to leave them and switch to other providers for gas so they can become deregulated and set their own prices without agreement from the energy regulator.


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    #95
    Naux
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭Naux


    staengus wrote: »
    Got that email this morning too (And I'm not a Bord Gais customer) :

    One of Ireland's leading energy companies Bord Gáis Energy is offering:
    • 5% discount in year 1 & 2* on lowest standard electricity prices in Ireland^

    • €40 cash back after the first year

    • No lock in period and no exit fees.

    • A level pay payment plan

    Yesterdays email was:
    One of Ireland's leading energy companies Bord Gáis Energy is offering:
    • 10% discount in year 1* on lowest standard electricity prices in Ireland^

    • €80 cash back after the first year

    • No lock in period and no exit fees.

    • A level pay payment plan

    Watch out for the level pay payment plan, that's the kicker in the above.

    I moved to BG recently on a level payment plan and they set the level pay monthly amount by:

    taking my previous 12 months usage and adding 20% to it and dividing that by twelve. In effect you end up overpaying for your electricity( you will get the money back after 12 months when they review your usage). I posted a thread about level pay before in the consumer issues forum explaining the level pay thing in more detail.

    The €80 back at the end of the year is good IMO.


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    #96
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Ogham wrote: »
    BG probably spent all the marketing budget with OneBigSwitch !

    Re: Gas - BG don't want any new gas customers - they want people to leave them and switch to other providers for gas so they can become deregulated and set their own prices without agreement from the energy regulator.

    BG are in the process of being wholly privatised.
    Being deregulated would positively enhance their value to prospective investors.
    Its in their interest to become deregulated as quickly as possible.


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    #97
    TireeTerror
    Registered Users Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭TireeTerror


    Naux wrote: »
    Watch out for the level pay payment plan, that's the kicker in the above.

    I moved to BG recently on a level payment plan and they set the level pay monthly amount by:

    taking my previous 12 months usage and adding 20% to it and dividing that by twelve. In effect you end up overpaying for your electricity( you will get the money back after 12 months when they review your usage). I posted a thread about level pay before in the consumer issues forum explaining the level pay thing in more detail.

    The €80 back at the end of the year is good IMO.

    Level pay is what every single customer that pays by Direct Debit in the UK is on. In 10 years selling to residential customer in the UK, I never once found a single customer who paid by direct debit who was not on a budget plan. In fact it wasn't even called a budget plan, its just how its paid if you choose direct debit. An average of your annual bill. I was shocked when I came to Ireland and discovered people signed up for direct debit knowing that after the issue of the bill, a huge sum of money would be withdrawn from their bank in 14 days. No wonder people didn't like direct debit!

    Paying on level pay is by far the best, really helps avoid huge winter bills as you spread the cost over the warmer months of the year.

    The 20% extra is a bit sneaky though, gives them plenty of scope to earn interest of your money. I can understand they would want to increase it a bit from last years consumption, because they do have to cover the following years price increase. If they didn't do that, they would either have to increase your monthly payments whenever there was a price increase, or at the end of the 12 month term as you would have a deficit. From a marketing point of view, its better to add that 20% now, let the customer get used to it, and then they wouldn't have a big jump in monthly payments in the event of a few small increases. Whenever someone has an increase in their monthly payments, thats the time when competitors find it easy to switch the customer. So they want to reduce that opportunity.

    There is also the fact that for those that can afford it, they enjoy the peace of mind they get knowing they are paying that little bit extra, it means they are not so paranoid to use the energy when they need it and then have to worry about a big bill.


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    #98
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    BG are in the process of being wholly privatised.
    Being deregulated would positively enhance their value to prospective investors.
    Its in their interest to become deregulated as quickly as possible.

    The sale has already been agreed anyway. It was sold really cheap - €150 million for Bord Gais Energy retail and a power plant that cost €400 million to build 4 years ago !!
    Don't know why the press/media aren't questioning it - apart from this ..
    http://www.moneyguideireland.com/bord-gais-energy-sell-off-was-it-a-bargain-for-centrica.html


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    #99
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    The argument for adding 20% onto the previous year's electricity cost for level pay customers- is that it provides a cushion against which price rises can be offset. Sigh..... Aka- they are pre-empting price increases into your bill in advance- so you don't get hit by a larger unexpected bill at the end......... Cynical marketing in the extreme.


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    #100
    Naux
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭Naux


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    The argument for adding 20% onto the previous year's electricity cost for level pay customers- is that it provides a cushion against which price rises can be offset. Sigh..... Aka- they are pre-empting price increases into your bill in advance- so you don't get hit by a larger unexpected bill at the end......... Cynical marketing in the extreme.

    Nice of them to pre-empt price increases for you isn't it.................:eek::eek:

    Cynical in the extreme as you say.


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    #101
    Naux
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭Naux


    TireeTerror wrote: »
    Level pay is what every single customer that pays by Direct Debit in the UK is on. In 10 years selling to residential customer in the UK, I never once found a single customer who paid by direct debit who was not on a budget plan. In fact it wasn't even called a budget plan, its just how its paid if you choose direct debit. An average of your annual bill. I was shocked when I came to Ireland and discovered people signed up for direct debit knowing that after the issue of the bill, a huge sum of money would be withdrawn from their bank in 14 days. No wonder people didn't like direct debit!

    Paying on level pay is by far the best, really helps avoid huge winter bills as you spread the cost over the warmer months of the year.

    The 20% extra is a bit sneaky though, gives them plenty of scope to earn interest of your money. I can understand they would want to increase it a bit from last years consumption, because they do have to cover the following years price increase. If they didn't do that, they would either have to increase your monthly payments whenever there was a price increase, or at the end of the 12 month term as you would have a deficit. From a marketing point of view, its better to add that 20% now, let the customer get used to it, and then they wouldn't have a big jump in monthly payments in the event of a few small increases. Whenever someone has an increase in their monthly payments, thats the time when competitors find it easy to switch the customer. So they want to reduce that opportunity. .

    I don't think that from "a marketing point of view" or from any other point of view they should add the 20% in the first place as it is very counter productive.
    TireeTerror wrote: »
    There is also the fact that for those that can afford it, they enjoy the peace of mind they get knowing they are paying that little bit extra, it means they are not so paranoid to use the energy when they need it and then have to worry about a big bill.

    Classic....are you a Politian by any chance!!;);)


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    #102
    TireeTerror
    Registered Users Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭TireeTerror


    Naux wrote: »

    Classic....are you a Politcian by any chance!!;);)

    You may laugh, but that is a very common feeling amongst householders. As level pay by Direct Debit is fairly new to the Irish market many might not realise this kind of sentiment. However people have been using payment cards at the post office for many years now and when I look at a potential customers bill that is in loads of credit due to overpayment each week, they usually prefer it that way. Many people, especially the older generation, hate the idea that they will fall behind in the bill and would much rather pay extra to provide themselves a safety net. You would be surprised how many people have over €1000 in credit pretty much all year round, even in May after a long winter. Sometimes the companies will call them up or write to them to advise reducing their weekly payments at the Post Office as they are not consuming that much, but they insist upon maintaining the amount.

    When I go to switch them, I have to inform them they will be refunded all of their credit, and usually they ask if its possible if the balance can be transferred directly to their new provider, in which case I tell them they would have to pay it directly themselves if they wanted to.

    Great for the electric companies all this credit!


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    #103
    Deep Thought
    Registered Users Posts: 4,384 ✭✭✭Deep Thought


    TireeTerror wrote: »
    Having said that, I sold timeshare in Tenerife for 4 years and no matter how much travel agents try and inform them of the risks on the plane and at morning meetings, some people will always be gullible and greed will get the better of them.

    If it is too good to be true......

    I agree that the people buying timeshares are in all probability gullible as warnings are out there and shysters use the fact of them being on holiday, maybe a bit tired, coming home from dinner with a couple of vino inside them, but to say that those who signed up to this are easily deceived or cheated; naive; credulous is not incorrect.

    They are not at a loss , they are aware and them make an educated decision, the fact that the site asks you to enter you current bill and then make a suggested saving that you do not have to sign up for , is to be well informed and not gullible.

    So, please dont keep patronizing people

    The narrower a man’s mind, the broader his statements.



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    #104
    TireeTerror
    Registered Users Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭TireeTerror


    Deep Thought wrote: »

    They are not at a loss , they are aware and them make an educated decision, the fact that the site asks you to enter you current bill and then make a suggested saving that you do not have to sign up for , is to be well informed and not gullible.

    So, please dont keep patronizing people

    Some people will have seen through it and made an informed decision, no doubt about it. Many, most likely the vast majority will be utterly disappointed in the result as they believed they would get a much better offer in exchange for the inevitable deluge of direct selling they are about to experience. Most probably never realised that OBS are a for-profit business and there only motivation is cold hard cash. The savings for the consumer is just a way to catch them, its all very clever and fairly well hidden. The entire process is scientifically engineered to provoke a quick decision from the consumer. The countdown timer, quick before its too late......all psychological tricks to ensnare people.

    You can see it your way, and I will see it my way. I know I am correct on this matter though, every single tactic they are employing are tactics I was taught nearly 15 years ago. These tactics work even when people know better deep down, but for some reason people cant stop themselves from committing to these things. You only need to watch the shopping channels selling the biggest load of cheap quality guff day after day to see what I mean. We know its rubbish, we know it will be used for 1 day before ending up in a kitchen drawer never to see the light of day again, and yet we place that order and enjoy the excitement of the entire process, the allure of a bargain is irresistible, as a consumer driven society we cannot control ourselves.

    Did you see the expose of TK Maxx and their tactics? Downright fraudulent a lot of it, but the majority just well thought out marketing taking advantage of consumer gullibility.


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    #105
    alanbk
    Registered Users Posts: 371 ✭✭alanbk


    Did you see the expose of TK Maxx and their tactics? Downright fraudulent a lot of it, but the majority just well thought out marketing taking advantage of consumer gullibility.

    Interesting thread. Where is the expose on TK Maxx btw ?


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    #106
    TireeTerror
    Registered Users Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭TireeTerror


    alanbk wrote: »

    Interesting thread. Where is the expose on TK Maxx btw ?

    It was on Dispatches on Channel 4.

    Here is a link to it in youtube, its in two parts, both listed below.

    PART 1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElfOxDMRn24

    PART 2

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lWEXtTTeg8


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    #107
    green123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭green123


    TireeTerror wrote: »

    Paying on level pay is by far the best, really helps avoid huge winter bills as you spread the cost over the warmer months of the year.

    level pay is not the best.

    as you have already said level pay charges 20 % extra on every bill.
    now i know that at the end of the year you will get a refund of any extra that you have paid.

    the problem is that people who are switching are very often struggling to pay bills.
    they want to switch to save money and lower their bills.
    but by switching to level pay their bill will actually be 20 % higher all year long.

    for an average yearly bill thats about 200 euro extra that they will pay during the year by using level pay.

    so thats 200 euro that they cant use all year as if it is locked away in a term deposit account.

    not many people who are struggling to pay bills would be paying into a deposit account at a bank.
    so why pay into a deposit account at a utility company ?
    especially when they dont even offer any interest on your deposit !


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    #108
    TireeTerror
    Registered Users Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭TireeTerror


    green123 wrote: »
    level pay is not the best.

    as you have already said level pay charges 20 % extra on every bill.
    now i know that at the end of the year you will get a refund of any extra that you have paid.

    the problem is that people who are switching are very often struggling to pay bills.
    they want to switch to save money and lower their bills.
    but by switching to level pay their bill will actually be 20 % higher all year long.

    for an average yearly bill thats about 200 euro extra that they will pay during the year by using level pay.

    so thats 200 euro that they cant use all year as if it is locked away in a term deposit account.

    not many people who are struggling to pay bills would be paying into a deposit account at a bank.
    so why pay into a deposit account at a utility company ?
    especially when they dont even offer any interest on your deposit !

    I didnt mean the actual plan BG use, which is called "level pay". I should have made that clearer, I can see why thats confusing.

    A budget plan is generally the easiest way for consumers to afford to pay their bill, thats just an average of your annual bill spread over 12 months. Its only BG as far as Im aware who add 20% on as standard.


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    #109
    Naux
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭Naux


    green123 wrote: »
    level pay is not the best.

    as you have already said level pay charges 20 % extra on every bill.
    now i know that at the end of the year you will get a refund of any extra that you have paid.

    the problem is that people who are switching are very often struggling to pay bills.
    they want to switch to save money and lower their bills.
    but by switching to level pay their bill will actually be 20 % higher all year long.

    for an average yearly bill thats about 200 euro extra that they will pay during the year by using level pay.

    so thats 200 euro that they cant use all year as if it is locked away in a term deposit account.

    not many people who are struggling to pay bills would be paying into a deposit account at a bank.
    so why pay into a deposit account at a utility company ?
    especially when they dont even offer any interest on your deposit !

    Yes exactly, you probably explained it a lot better than I did when I had posted this up on another thread. Some of replies show how badly people miss the point...

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057150921


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    #110
    Deep Thought
    Registered Users Posts: 4,384 ✭✭✭Deep Thought


    [QUOTE=
    You can see it your way, and I will see it my way. I know I am correct on this matter though, every single tactic they are employing are tactics I was taught nearly 15 years ago .[/QUOTE]

    I guess this is no good for you as you are getting your 20% staff discount from Energia

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89689993&postcount=218

    or is this a general discount opportunity

    The narrower a man’s mind, the broader his statements.



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    #111
    TireeTerror
    Registered Users Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭TireeTerror


    Deep Thought wrote: »
    I guess this is no good for you as you are getting your 20% staff discount from Energia

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89689993&postcount=218

    or is this a general discount opportunity

    I was supposed to get my staff discount!

    BTW Im not berating this scam because Im in the energy supply business, Im berating it for what it is, a scam.


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    #112
    DriveSkill
    Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭DriveSkill


    One issue which seems not to be addressed is that any overpayment must be over €200 for you to get a refund at the end of the year - seems very high.

    From Bord Gais Website the bold/underline emphasis is mine.
    Will I pay the same as last year?
    Your monthly payment amount is based on your most recent consumption, your previous year’s consumption and energy prices. An initial intolerance (typically 20%) is added for variations in your usage. This allowance is made to ensure you do not get into debt and your bills are always covered as no lump sum is required to be paid by you. If the calculated monthly payment varies by €20 we will adjust your monthly payment amount. We carry out reconciliation once per year. If you are in credit by more that €200 then you can claim a refund. If the amount is smaller than this then we will carry the amount forward to reduce your monthly payments for the next year. You don’t pay anything extra for your gas by using this payment method.

    What happens if you leave and you have a credit - do you get it back then ? I assume so but not sure.


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    #113
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    DriveSkill wrote: »
    One issue which seems not to be addressed is that any overpayment must be over €200 for you to get a refund at the end of the year - seems very high.


    .

    They add on 20% to your previous years usage to work out the monthly payment. So an "average " user signing up for this "deal" whose estimated usage is €1094 a year will end up paying 20% more (€1312) for the first year (€218.80 a year extra or 18.33 a month extra). Assuming their usage stays as estimated they will have credit of €218.80 plus the €80 cashback which will be a €298.80 refund they can request after 12 months.

    They could go with a Energia's latest offer and pay €1057 over the year , paying bills as they arise and not overpaying. Overall they would end up paying €43 euro more over the year (av €3.38 a month) - but they won't have the inconvenience of having to overpay by €218.80 and then claim it back from Bord Gais.

    Figures from here http://www.moneyguideireland.com/electricity-prices


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    #114
    gazzaman22
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭gazzaman22


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Right admittedly this isn't a Bargain Alert just yet but if enough people sign up to it then it could very well become one.
    Website is onebigswitch.ie and they just launched today. The idea is that when they have a few thousands sign ups they can then go to the electricity companies and negotiate a discount using the purchasing power of a large group of people. I guess you could say its Groupon for ESB.

    Anyway according to the company electricity costs have risen 21% in the last year alone and also that schemes like these are up and running successfully in other European countries. So I've signed up and hope this works out cause I'm really sick of €100+ bills at this stage. Sign up is easy, there's a survey bit but you don't have to answer all the questions.

    Is this gonna happen?
    Ever???


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    #115
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    gazzaman22 wrote: »
    Is this gonna happen?
    Ever???
    It already did http://www.onebigswitch.ie/news/2014/03/24/people-power-unlocks-group-discounted-electricity-in-ireland-for-the-first-time/#.U5gt4huko3U


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    #116
    greenfingerz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7 ✭greenfingerz


    yer man who set this up is probably thinking to himself right now
    what a bunch of suckers.


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    #117
    gazzaman22
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭gazzaman22


    snubbleste wrote: »
    It already did http://www.onebigswitch.ie/news/2014/03/24/people-power-unlocks-group-discounted-electricity-in-ireland-for-the-first-time/#.U5gt4huko3U

    Cant remember getting any correspondence , And i signed up early doors... So what do i do now?
    Or is this the best/cheapest route to take


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    #118
    Bebo stunnah
    Registered Users Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Bebo stunnah


    greenfingerz wrote: »
    yer man who set this up is probably thinking to himself right now
    what a bunch of suckers.

    Can you blame him?

    Although they did start a 'price war' between themselves and Electric Ireland who I went with in the end. They ended up cheaper overall, minushavingto give a 3rd party any information. The people who went with them in the end deserve to be called suckers!

    Am I right in thinking Airtricity are now doing the same? 17%? about 2 months too late to the game...


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