Patriots Buy Irish!!!

bilbot79 · 20-10-2020 6:35pm #1

The late Brian Lenihan appealed to the people's patriotic duty to 'Buy Irish' during the financial crisis instead of shopping up north and paying to the British exchequer but it was impossible for the desperate souls.

However, this time it's different because we have money, whether it's PUP or whether it's the unaffected sectors. I see Tubs made the appeal this year

He's right! We should Buy Irish this year and ditch Amazon.

For one thing I am looking at gifts and hampers from the Donegal Natural Soap Company (not affiliated I promise). Even if it costs more, I'm doing my patriotic duty!

How else can we acheive this in an online only setting during lockdown? What websites are All-Irish businesses? Where can we put our money to support ourselves and not the top 1% in Trumpland?

thenightman · 20-10-2020 6:43pm

Most Irish businesses have awful websites in my experience. Also, I was looking for earphones for my sister's birthday recently and also tried to look in Irish based shops. Was nearly 80e in the difference between them and retailers on eBay and Amazon itself.

I've been working on frontline full time throughout this pandemic and am still trying to save for a mortgage for a chance at an overpriced house or apartment somewhat close to family. Why would I throw away extra money just to be patriotic? Easy for Tubs to say on his salary!

Also, Lenihan could've been more patriotic himself by refusing to enslave future generations with debt by agreeing to pay unsecured bondholders!

bilbot79 · 20-10-2020 6:46pm

thenightman wrote: »

Most Irish businesses have awful websites in my experience. Also, I was looking for earphones for my sister's birthday recently and also tried to look in Irish based shops. Was nearly 80e in the difference between them and retailers on eBay and Amazon itself.

I've been working on frontline full time throughout this pandemic and am still trying to save for a mortgage for a chance at an overpriced house or apartment somewhat close to family. Why would I throw away extra money just to be patriotic? Easy for Tubs to say on his salary!

Also, Lenihan could've been more patriotic himself by refusing to enslave future generations with debt by agreeing to pay unsecured bondholders!

There'll always be a cut-off point where you just can't do it but if something is for example 10% more expensive in the rip off republic I'm gonna do it

Trampas · 20-10-2020 6:48pm

Most people would buy Irish if prices were near to non Irish sites. This year more than ever online presence is important and stock levels. You can be sure the vast majority of people will be stocked for Christmas ASAP and no last minute buying as who knows what shops be open come December. Shops out of stock they need to give ideas on when they’ll have them else people will he gone elsewhere

bilbot79 · 20-10-2020 8:53pm

They must have been reading boards

One hundred Irish retailers for all your online Christmas shopping (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/one-hundred-irish-retailers-for-all-your-online-christmas-shopping-1.4386351

Davy · 21-10-2020 5:21pm

https://www.guaranteedirishgifts.ie/

Press release on the launch

Guaranteed Irish has today announced the launch of GuaranteedIrishGifts.ie, an exciting new initiative showcasing the best of locally based businesses throughout the country with hundreds of gift ideas from corporate gifts to personalised presents. The new website promotes Guaranteed Irish member brands and businesses, featuring hundreds Guaranteed Irish gift ideas including artisan food & drink, beauty & skincare, corporate gifts, craft & design, textiles & accessories, homeware & interiors, tourism & hospitality and much more.

#GuaranteedIrishChristmas

PirateShampoo · 21-10-2020 7:56pm

Example

Smyths: Nintendo Switch e330 plus shipping

Amazon e312 with free shipping.

The games have massive price differences as well.

whiterebel · 21-10-2020 10:25pm

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Example

Smyths: Nintendo Switch e330 plus shipping

Amazon e312 with free shipping.

The games have massive price differences as well.

€1.99 shipping for Smyths. For the sake of €20 I'd prefer to keep the money local. Jeff has enough.

bilbot79 · 21-10-2020 11:26pm

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Example

Smyths: Nintendo Switch e330 plus shipping

Amazon e312 with free shipping.

The games have massive price differences as well.

This is nailed on as a Buy Irish!

MrMusician18 · 22-10-2020 12:03am

whiterebel wrote: »

€1.99 shipping for Smyths. For the sake of €20 I'd prefer to keep the money local. Jeff has enough.

While I agree with you that Jeff has enough, it's long been the case that Irish retailers have been uncompetitive both online and in store. In fact a lot of Irish retailers have terrible online offerings, with poorly laid out cheap wordpress sites as their web presence.

Buy Irish had long been doomed to fail because price is ultimately king. This is especially true with imported goods, the likes of which are what most people would be buying for Christmas gifts. Say that Irish retailer for a phone is €50 more expensive than for what I can get it for online. What extra is that €50 getting me? It needs to be more than a warm fuzzy feeling. Unfortunately, it's usually nothing. It's usually not a knowledgeable seller, if it breaks or goes wrong, there is usually no goodwill - just my statutory rights. I was in the market for a new TV before the pandemic. Almost without exception, I knew more about the products on sale than the sales assistants.

bilbot79 · 22-10-2020 8:00am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

While I agree with you that Jeff has enough, it's long been the case that Irish retailers have been uncompetitive both online and in store. In fact a lot of Irish retailers have terrible online offerings, with poorly laid out cheap wordpress sites as their web presence.

Buy Irish had long been doomed to fail because price is ultimately king. This is especially true with imported goods, the likes of which are what most people would be buying for Christmas gifts. Say that Irish retailer for a phone is €50 more expensive than for what I can get it for online. What extra is that €50 getting me? It needs to be more than a warm fuzzy feeling. Unfortunately, it's usually nothing. It's usually not a knowledgeable seller, if it breaks or goes wrong, there is usually no goodwill - just my statutory rights. I was in the market for a new TV before the pandemic. Almost without exception, I knew more about the products on sale than the sales assistants.

Yeah but mate..this time...just this time, it's really important to keep it at home.

If our economy breaks many people won't even be able to afford the Amazon version. We're all in this together and we're not trying to solve the long term competitiveness issues by Christmas 2020.

Buy Irish this Christmas

MrMusician18 · 22-10-2020 11:50am

bilbot79 wrote: »

Yeah but mate..this time...just this time, it's really important to keep it at home.

If our economy breaks many people won't even be able to afford the Amazon version. We're all in this together and we're not trying to solve the long term competitiveness issues by Christmas 2020.

Buy Irish this Christmas

I myself will try to buy from more Irish retailers this Christmas, but my point is that they shouldn't need this charity. They should have been competitive enough to be my first choice regardless. The problem is Irish retail is, generally, neither innovative nor competitive and expects Irish consumers to choose them just 'cos.

Dravokivich · 22-10-2020 11:55am

bilbot79 wrote: »

Yeah but mate..this time...just this time, it's really important to keep it at home.

If our economy breaks many people won't even be able to afford the Amazon version. We're all in this together and we're not trying to solve the long term competitiveness issues by Christmas 2020.

Buy Irish this Christmas

The consumer should not have to comprimise. If the product they are looking for isn't available, or of good value, why would they have to settle for something else?

whiterebel · 22-10-2020 1:24pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I myself will try to buy from more Irish retailers this Christmas, but my point is that they shouldn't need this charity. They should have been competitive enough to be my first choice regardless. The problem is Irish retail is, generally, neither innovative nor competitive and expects Irish consumers to choose them just 'cos.

It's not charity, its about trying to keep money in the local economy. It all goes down the chain to support suppliers, transport and everything else.
While I agree that the on-line presence has been pretty poor, its difficult to be competitive when rents are so high in this country. When you start from such a high point, its hard to keep prices down. As long as so many TDs are landlords, it's not likely to change. Companies are very wary of putting prices up online as they will be hammered by the likes of Amazon. Look at the size of Smyths and they struggle to be competitive.

MrMusician18 · 22-10-2020 3:19pm

whiterebel wrote: »

It's not charity, its about trying to keep money in the local economy. It all goes down the chain to support suppliers, transport and everything else.
While I agree that the on-line presence has been pretty poor, its difficult to be competitive when rents are so high in this country. When you start from such a high point, its hard to keep prices down. As long as so many TDs are landlords, it's not likely to change. Companies are very wary of putting prices up online as they will be hammered by the likes of Amazon. Look at the size of Smyths and they struggle to be competitive.

Online presence poor? For some retail, online doesn't go beyond a poorly maintained facebook page, it's not as if online selling is new. While I agree that is good to keep the jobs in the Irish economy and money circulating - what extra does buying local offer the individual? It isn't service, warranty or goodwill. These goods are all imported anyway, so the only extra support you are giving is to the Irish supply chain.

Realistically, we could all promise to buy in local shops but that won't actually happen unless local shops offer something for the premium they charge. Beyond immediacy, that have failed to offer much.

I was looking at a nice pair of waterproof boots, the best irish price was €20 more than the international seller price. So what is that extra €20 actually buying me?

whiterebel · 22-10-2020 3:25pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Online presence poor? For some retail, online doesn't go beyond a poorly maintained facebook page, it's not as if online selling is new. While I agree that is good to keep the jobs in the Irish economy and money circulating - what extra does buying local offer the individual? It isn't service, warranty or goodwill. These goods are all imported anyway, so the only extra support you are giving is to the Irish supply chain.

Realistically, we could all promise to buy in local shops but that won't actually happen unless local shops offer something for the premium they charge. Beyond immediacy, that have failed to offer much.

I was looking at a nice pair of waterproof boots, the best irish price was €20 more than the international seller price. So what is that extra €20 actually buying me?

Warranty is an issue here, the retailers have to be prepared to deal with the Sale of Goods Act (The don't want top admit it exists, but eventually they have to) And you have completely avoided the upward only rent that was introduced in this country which means struggling businesses can't get a decrease in one of their biggest expenses. FG promised to get rid of it, but true to form, as soon as they got in said they couldn't do anything about it.

MrMusician18 · 22-10-2020 5:36pm

whiterebel wrote: »

Warranty is an issue here, the retailers have to be prepared to deal with the Sale of Goods Act (The don't want top admit it exists, but eventually they have to) And you have completely avoided the upward only rent that was introduced in this country which means struggling businesses can't get a decrease in one of their biggest expenses. FG promised to get rid of it, but true to form, as soon as they got in said they couldn't do anything about it.

Upward only rent reviews that the retailer has signed up to with their landlord is nothing to do with and not the concern of the consumer. It's certainly not the consumers role to subsidise poor commercial decisions.

I have no problem supporting retailers through a problem that is no fault of their own, like pandemics. However I'm not going to support businesses that freely signed up to commercial terms that they now regret. That's their problem.

Darc19 · 23-10-2020 7:31am

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Example

Smyths: Nintendo Switch e330 plus shipping

Amazon e312 with free shipping.

The games have massive price differences as well.

Is this before or after Amazon adjust the vat.

And are you using Tuesday's or Wednesdays exchange rates (1.2% difference)

And are you using mid market rates or the real rate you get?

I reckon the real difference is a fiver at most. And that could be a fiver saved next week depending on exchange rates

whiterebel · 23-10-2020 12:24pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Upward only rent reviews that the retailer has signed up to with their landlord is nothing to do with and not the concern of the consumer. It's certainly not the consumers role to subsidise poor commercial decisions.

I have no problem supporting retailers through a problem that is no fault of their own, like pandemics. However I'm not going to support businesses that freely signed up to commercial terms that they now regret. That's their problem.

So its nothing to do with the consumer, but it has a marked effect on prices? And you're not interested in that, but you want cheaper prices? With that level of reasoning I'll take my leave.

MrMusician18 · 23-10-2020 12:50pm

whiterebel wrote: »

So its nothing to do with the consumer, but it has a marked effect on prices? And you're not interested in that, but you want cheaper prices? With that level of reasoning I'll take my leave.

No, I am not interested in the costs of running the business or the margin they make - generally in unexceptionable times that's their problem. As a consumer I am only interested in the price charged for the goods and services I receive.

So I'll return to my point, for the pair of imported shoes in thinking of buying, what will the extra €20 the Irish retailer is charging get me over direct from the manufacturer? Maybe getting it sooner, but is that worth €20 to me - sometimes but not usually.

MrMusician18 · 25-10-2020 2:24pm

OmegaGene wrote: »

I just got the switch for £239 with amazon using their kids wish 15% discount offer that was on bargain alerts, can’t be paying smyths €330

£281.33
Postage & Packing: £0.00
Total: £281.33
Promotion Applied: -£42.20
Order Total: £239.13

I wonder if you'd paid the extra €60 for buying "Irish" what extra service you would've received?

The Continental Op · 27-10-2020 1:50pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I wonder if you'd paid the extra €60 for buying "Irish" what extra service you would've received?

Thats the real reason for not buying Irish. Customer service from Amazon is so much better. The average person behind the counter in an Irish store thinks that their job depends on refusing to help customers with any form of support. An item that doesn't work is always the customers fault.

flazio · 29-10-2020 10:24am

It's a lovely idea but in the end, once the budgeting has been done and the overheads taken care of. People cannot spend extra money that they don't have. If businesses want to survive, they have to have the intelligence to be competitive. That goes for all factors from supplier negotiations, product pricing right down to who gets elected for their area, be that councillor, TD and chambers of commerce.

The Mighty Quinn · 29-10-2020 10:39am

In my view this only suits people with surplus cash. I don't have surplus cash. If I need something that I can afford to wait a week or two for, and it's cheaper online, I'm getting it online. If it's a tenner cheaper, it's a tenner in my pocket towards something else me or my family needs, I'm not going to say "okay for the sake of a tenner extra, I'll give it to a local supplier".

Maybe in the future when I have more money (hopefully), I can reappraise.

At the moment I'm treading water. I'm not sinking but I'm not floating far above the surface either. All money matters to me at this time.

Enrico Palazzo · 06-11-2020 2:19pm

Price is not the only factor here. Customer service, shipping cost and product choice all frequently make it difficult to give Irish retailers a preference. So many items are either unavailable in Ireland or can't be found online. Delivery cost typically is very steep for low value items, so it's not only way more than the subsidised shipping from China, but so often even the UK or EU based sellers charge less for shipping here. Also, strictly speaking "buy Irish" means buy Irish products, otherwise it's just buying from an Irish retailer or even just Ireland-based one. And there is not that much to choose from. For my part, I always give Irish food produce a priority - it's generally of a high quality, making it a naturally preferred choice.

whiterebel · 06-11-2020 4:57pm

Enrico Palazzo wrote: »

Price is not the only factor here. Customer service, shipping cost and product choice all frequently make it difficult to give Irish retailers a preference. So many items are either unavailable in Ireland or can't be found online. Delivery cost typically is very steep for low value items, so it's not only way more than the subsidised shipping from China, but so often even the UK or EU based sellers charge less for shipping here. Also, strictly speaking "buy Irish" means buy Irish products, otherwise it's just buying from an Irish retailer or even just Ireland-based one. And there is not that much to choose from. For my part, I always give Irish food produce a priority - it's generally of a high quality, making it a naturally preferred choice.

The Chinese model is going to end when they have to pay proper rates for delivery. The problem with Irish delivery rates is the cost if you're shipping small amounts, which is going to be the way for a startup or a niche business. Going to hard to generate sales with high delivery, and you can't get better delivery rates because there isn't enough sales. Economies of scale come into play as well, companies in Germany can get a DHL delivery to Ireland for €15, we pay probably €75 for the opposite way.

The quest for cheaper has produced a real race to the bottom for transport companies. You can see the appalling standards now in play because of the way it is structured here. I don't think anyone sat down and worked out the difference there was going to be from the business to business model that they were used to.

Enrico Palazzo · 06-11-2020 5:18pm

US have terminated the postal subsidy agreement with China and it doesn't seem to have harmed China's ecommerce much. EU on the other hand is aiming to tax all import into EU regardless of value, but tax collection will most likely be handled by selling platforms, already at purchase, without those exorbitant anpost custom handling fees, and as such will not affect the balance either. And as for the postal cost in EU - I have had DHL DEU to ROI deliveries for €7.5, regardless of the total shopping value, so not subsidised.

whiterebel · 06-11-2020 6:17pm

Enrico Palazzo wrote: »

US have terminated the postal subsidy agreement with China and it doesn't seem to have harmed China's ecommerce much. EU on the other hand is aiming to tax all import into EU regardless of value, but tax collection will most likely be handled by selling platforms, already at purchase, without those exorbitant anpost custom handling fees, and as such will not affect the balance either. And as for the postal cost in EU - I have had DHL DEU to ROI deliveries for €7.5, regardless of the total shopping value, so not subsidised.

I never said DHL was subsidised, it is economies of scale. 60m population v 4.5m, same with the UK, France etc.

You should try to do a customs entry and have a huge deposit for payment of VAT/Duty and then you might have an idea how cheap that "exorbitant" €10.00 actually is.

We'll see how keen they are in China to set up these systems to keep selling cheap into the EU. Great if they do, at least they'll be paying their share of VAT/duty.

Enrico Palazzo · 06-11-2020 6:23pm

whiterebel wrote: »

I never said DHL was subsidised, it is economies of scale. 60m population v 4.5m, same with the UK, France etc.

I did not mean you had, just saying they can avail of a shipping service to ROI for as low as €7.5.

whiterebel wrote: »

You should try to do a customs entry and have a huge deposit for payment of VAT/Duty and then you might have an idea how cheap that "exorbitant" €10.00 actually is.

I suppose the fee could be brought down to a fraction of that if online payments were enabled, with cash on delivery payment to remain a more expensive option for those who need it.

piplip87 · 06-11-2020 11:10pm

I've always tried to buy Irish. I do avoid a few shops around here though because while they are all about shop local yet when theres fire extinguishers, building works etc going on in these shops I many northern reg Van's doing that work while I've mates travelling who spent plenty of time out of work during the last recession and many more travelling to Dublin every morning. It works both ways IMO.

whiterebel · 07-11-2020 10:38am

Enrico Palazzo wrote: »

I did not mean you had, just saying they can avail of a shipping service to ROI for as low as €7.5.

I suppose the fee could be brought down to a fraction of that if online payments were enabled, with cash on delivery payment to remain a more expensive option for those who need it.

It’s nothing to do with the way they collect money, although it would make it easier for the customer and themselves. They would have to increase the charge to cover online payment, though. They have to find an individual tariff code for each distinct type of item being imported. This gives the correct duty type and amount, and whether it is actually allowed to be imported into the EU. Then sit down and do the entry online - software for this was €40,000 or so some time ago. Commercial rates for companies for customs clearance start at about €50 for a single line entry, same thing you get for €10.00. In my youth I did customs clearance for car parts, the bill for it ran into hundreds, because each individual part has a tariff code....exhausts, mirrors, glass, switchgear, seats. It used to take a full day sometimes to do them. €10 or €12.50 with the couriers is unbelievably cheap.

Patriots Buy Irish!!!

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