How Much to Pay for Captain's Day?

Axel Lamp wrote: »

Really should be €0 if you've paid to qualify already.

+1
It also depends on what's on offer, e.g. our captains and presidents include a 2 course a meal and we pay €20.

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

We had to pay €25 to enter the Captain's Day... so including the €7 qualifier it came to €32. Yes, there's a big song and dance made about it and the atmosphere on the day is buzzing, but for that kind of money I won't be playing in next year's event.

I am assuming there is no sit down meal included ?
If so that is madness.

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

We had to pay €25 to enter the Captain's Day... so including the €7 qualifier it came to €32. Yes, there's a big song and dance made about it and the atmosphere on the day is buzzing, but for that kind of money I won't be playing in next year's event.

That's a joke, you are paying twice for the same competition, everyone who enters the comp (inclunding all quailifiers) should pay the same and then making it through the quailifier is a prize in itself, instead of been effectively punished by making it through and been asked to pay a penalty of €25, madness!.

Our Captain's qualifying begins next week. Choice of either playing the Sat or Sun and for those who can't play or don't qualify there's a 2nd chance the following Sat in the repechage. €20 to enter the qualifier which then covers the Captain's Prize entry if you succeed. Top 108 from the qualifiers go through to the Captain’s prize which is strokeplay with a shot gun start. Top 21 plus ties from that then play a further 9 holes to decide the winners. The entry fee does include a breakfast before the shotgun start but again you need to qualify as alternatively there’s only a 9 hole Captain’s Plate to play for.

Quite expensive as the qualifier is just a normal competition and will probably have 350+ entries over the two days plus repechage. Also since scores don't carry it can encourage certain people playing well to pull and mind their handicap for the big event the week after. Also this year the qualifiers are disappointingly stableford to further play into the hands of the higher handicappers.

I think the best format for a captain’s prize is to have strokeplay qualifiers with the scores to carry and then have players going out in reverse order on the Captain’s Prize day itself. Adds a real championship feel to the event, rewards consistent play over two weeks rather than a one off event, creates a good odds book with players having shot(s) on the field plus it helps the flow of play unlike a shotgun start with two groupings per hole which can cause serious havoc with slow play.

In our case since scores don’t carry would prefer the qualifiers to have the usual weekend entry fee of €6 and if you succeed then have a separate entry of up to €10.

Ours started the weekend gone €25 + €5 sweep (optional) +2's no food or drink, there wasn't even a starter or ranger on the course which I taught was madness as there was lads 4 holes ahead who were holding everything up and they had 4 hole's free in front of them! it took 1 of my playing partners to go over and have a word and they still didn't go much quicker, till it starting raining!

The weekend was qualifying which I definitely didn't so that's €25 down the drain. It was my first ever captain's Day been a member 4 years taught it was a bit of a rip off to be honest didn't think it was any different to any other comp other than the price!

Don't think I would enter again & can see why a lot of members don't.

slave1 wrote: »

OT I played my home course in a society outing earlier this year and they charged me €20 for the privalege, there were a number of us members and some are leaving because of it....

Wow, that's a new low in money grabbing. Am actually shocked with the gaul of the club charging it's members to play instead of congratulating them on bringing a society to the club.

As an example of how it should be done we played Luttrellstown in a small work society last year where one of our players was a member. Not only did Luttrellstown not try to charge the member to play his home course but they also willingly permitted 3 guest passes at the further reduced member rate. Signs by Luttrellstown is popular with societies but the club also treats them well and gets a lot of repeat custom as a result.

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Dinner was an extra €30.


Don't get me wrong, I know there's a huge burden of commitments placed on the Captain throughout the year and I know they fork out for the prizes, but I was still fuming at €25. Even if they'd said: "it's €25 all in, so because you paid €7 for the qualifier already, it's €18 today" I'd have been OK with that.

To pay €32 to play in the club's main event is daft.

PS. good lateral thinking. Captains of the future take note!

thoscon wrote: »

€30 for dinner on top of the golf
That's a bit much in all fairness

Agreed - €32 is a bit much for Captain’s Day. In our club it’s been €10 for years (double the ordinary comp fee), which I think is about right for most clubs (as new members aren’t easy to find these days). It’s a special day for captains and everyone wants to have a good day.

But no matter the fee, it still costs around €6,000 - €8,000 to run the day – depending on number of guest invites to dinner, goodie bags, golf balls, prizes, on course food, etc. Yes, you can cut back on some items but costs quickly rack up. And even if the captain’s contribution is around €1,000 and comp fees raise around €3,000, that still leaves a deficit of €2,000 - €4,000.

If nothing else changes, this deficit will come off the surplus or be added to the losses for the year. In the case of the latter this will result in the need for more borrowings, if the club can increase its borrowings, or cost cuts elsewhere.

So, unless you believe in a fairy godmother, something needs to change – and there’s the rub – no one likes change and there are alternatives – just ask the Greeks...

Dtoffee wrote: »

and this is where I think golf has gone wrong .... Captains Day should not be some ego trip with a succession of Captains trying to outdo each other and certainly not an excuse to spend clubs funds for personal promotion. The joke is that no matter how big the prize or the sideshow, there will always be moans and of course its guaranteed 'some' bandit will win :rolleyes:

The best Captains always chat to and listen to the members during their year, put up a decent 1st prize to the value of €150 and just simply meet n greet everyone on the day. Spending my subs on lifesize posters of themselves is certainly not my idea of a good Captain

Maybe you're describing what happens in your club but, in fairness to the majority of captains, I'd say you are in a minority.

In my experience from committee involvement in golf and GAA club, most people go onto committee because they want to give something back to a voluntary community organisation that has played an important part in their lives. Those who get to be captain do this for many years.

I know everyone on committee isn't perfect and all of us have our particular hobby horses and biases - it's part of being human. And captains who never made a mistake simply doesn't exist. Nor do those who manage to please everyone in the club all the time. Similarly, every captain wants to make their day special - and what's wrong with that?

It's all very well to be cynical about peoples' motivations, but, just think about it - nothing would happen if everyone adopted the cynical approach that "they're all in it for the glory, etc.". Sure, some lost the run of themselves during the tiger years, leading a charge whereby members voted to build now unaffordable trophy clubhouses, etc. Members of such clubs are paying for those mistakes now. My experience is that the vast majority of captains do their utmost to serve their clubs and members as best they can - they are not in it for the ego trip you describe.

To try to be balanced about it, these days I think most have learned to be more realistic - certainly for the last 6 years or so balancing the books has been foremost in the minds of most clubs and their captains. But when it comes to captain's day, the easier option is to follow tradition rather than clearly thinking through how to provide the same type of good day at far less cost to the club. Isn't that what this little debate is all about?

golfwallah wrote: »

Maybe you're describing what happens in your club but, in fairness to the majority of captains, I'd say you are in a minority.

Firstly I am not describing my club, but I am talking from personal experience and anecdotal stories over many years of golfing and I agree ..... I probably am in a minority who think that some Captains Days have gone too far. As for being cynical, I gave two versions of the types of Captains I have seen over the years and at no stage implied every Captain was in it for themselves.

Even you yourself said some lost the plot over the tiger years and I think some still do, that is why I agree with the OP that his Captains day costs are on the high side and again its just a personal opinion. I would be interested to know what people think their Captains budget is for his day and his year or if they even have an idea? I would be only guessing, but generally I would say Captains must have some sort of budget for their day and some sort of bar tab for their year.

Dtoffee wrote: »

Firstly I am not describing my club, but I am talking from personal experience and anecdotal stories over many years of golfing and I agree ..... I probably am in a minority who think that some Captains Days have gone too far. As for being cynical, I gave two versions of the types of Captains I have seen over the years and at no stage implied every Captain was in it for themselves.

Even you yourself said some lost the plot over the tiger years and I think some still do, that is why I agree with the OP that his Captains day costs are on the high side and again its just a personal opinion. I would be interested to know what people think their Captains budget is for his day and his year or if they even have an idea? I would be only guessing, but generally I would say Captains must have some sort of budget for their day and some sort of bar tab for their year.

I think you have given a bit more than 2 versions of types of captains with these generalised statements:

Captains Day should not be some ego trip with a succession of Captains trying to outdo each other and certainly not an excuse to spend clubs funds for personal promotion.

Spending my subs on lifesize posters of themselves is certainly not my idea of a good Captain

You further added your view that:

The best Captains always chat to and listen to the members during their year, put up a decent 1st prize to the value of €150 and just simply meet n greet everyone on the day.

What you have omitted from this rather narrow mix of views is that the position of captain is voluntary, freely elected by the members, entrusted to use his best judgement in running the affairs of the club (within the limits of the constitution) and accountable at the AGM for his stewardship at the end of the year.

In using his judgement, Captain’s Day can play an important part not only in providing enjoyment to the members but also in giving recognition to various people who have contributed freely to the running of the club. This judgement includes the value of prizes, whether to provide goodie bags, golf balls, on course food, number of invitees to dinner, etc. It is also an important day in the life of the captain, his family and friends.

You may prefer the parsimonious approach of cutting expense to the bone, for example by limiting the value of prizes. But that’s your view and maybe you would implement this approach if you were captain. But, I and, I think most people, are in practice content to leave such matters to the discretion of the captain, just as long as the fees charged are considered reasonably acceptable by the majority in the club.

In our club the reasonably acceptable fee is €10, covering qualifiers and the day itself. And most of us are just as content that reasonably competent and affable people go forward for the position and do a reasonably good job in the process. I have never heard views like you expressed at any of our AGMs or even casually in the club – and, believe you me, I have played and continue to play a lot of club golf, quite apart from serving on committee, over many years.

€10 for us which includes entry into the final day or non qualifier event however your day goes.
Tab in the bar for a couple of pints and then all pints €3 for the night. Finger food platters also. Goody bag on the first tee.

Prizes are top class too for it with about 15 different places between winners, classes etc etc

Ok Golfwallah, so we have different views .... time to move on as an auld ex-artisan like me couldnt be arsed looking up dictionaries for words like parsimonious. I shall retreat and wallow in my ignorance, I'm sure people can make their own minds up.

ballyk wrote: »

Yep, they get to compete for the visitors prize and they get food as well. Some of them would be friends of the captain or members of neighbouring clubs.

I think having a visitors prize is fine, so long as members can still get tee times. Some clubs even allow the Captain bring a few of his mates in for the year (gratis) and as you can imagine, that can be very appealing if your ego needs massaging :rolleyes:. Not that I would ever suggest that a lot of Captains are ex-captains of industry who miss being the boss :P.