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DCV

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  • 18-01-2018 4:46pm
    #1
    Supersonic42
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭


    Im doing a renovation to an 80's house and planning on putting in a DCV system so provide adequate ventilation to the house. Ive priced the Aereco and the luno systems. Any options/advice on which is best? Thanks


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    #2
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,193 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    why not full mhvr, those others are very pricey so if its a gut job look at mhvr

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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    #3
    Supersonic42
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Supersonic42


    Won't have the level of airtightness required to make the most out of the mhrv... Although there doesnt seem to be a hell of a lot if difference in the price between mhrv and dcv


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    #4
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    I've retro-fitted the Aereco system, and find it very good.
    One small advice, be careful with inlet vent positioning to avoid draughts affecting people. If I were doing it again, I'd either choose different locations for vents, or choose inlets that open & close automatically depending on external temperature (I think Vent Axia do one)

    Regarding MHRV, I think it's very disruptive to fit unless in a bungalow etc. One advantage is you don't need to undercut doors


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    #5
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Supersonic42 wrote: »
    Although there doesnt seem to be a hell of a lot if difference in the price between mhrv and dcv

    Really?


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    #6
    Supersonic42
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Supersonic42


    BryanF wrote: »
    Really?

    Prices coming back between €3900-€5500 inc vat fitted... I would have thought that would have gone a long way towards mhrv....


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    #7
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    Supersonic42 wrote: »
    BryanF wrote: »
    Really?

    Prices coming back between €3900-€5500 inc vat fitted... I would have thought that would have gone a long way towards mhrv....
    What is excluded? builders work, boxing in of ducts, making good, painting etc.?


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    #8
    Supersonic42
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Supersonic42


    Dardania wrote: »
    What is excluded? builders work, boxing in of ducts, making good, painting etc.?

    Yep all that is excluded. No drilling off core holes or vent tile for fan. Just supply and fit system as if it is a new build


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    #9
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    I read through the Aereco docs at the weekend. It doesn't look very complicated as a retro fit, although that depends on position of wet rooms and the first floor construction. I have regular timber joists with plasterboarding and all wet rooms within 5m of each other.

    There are two types of duct, flat profile and round profile. I assume retro-fit would use flat profile due to space constraints in the ceiling voids.

    If you have the existing passive vents in the non-wet rooms, you just need to put in the ducting (as much rigid as possible, and any flexible ducting should be as straight as possible) and the attic unit, and then vent that out through the eaves (again, there should be vents there already). In my case I have three bathrooms and a kitchen, but will probably leave the downstairs toilet as it's not damp enough to benefit. I have a utility with a condenser dryer which also doesn't suffer condensation.

    The centralised Ventaxia multi-vent units can be had for a few hundred, like <£300 on sale at the moment (I don't know whether Aereco is much more expensive?).

    So, few hundred for the unit, a bit of ducting, electrician....where does €4-6k come from?

    And you're saying that there's no drilling or boxing in of ducts? Are they going to leave holes in the ceiling? What about filling any existing vents in the wet rooms?

    Confused.


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    #10
    Supersonic42
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Supersonic42


    Lumen wrote: »
    I read through the Aereco docs at the weekend. It doesn't look very complicated as a retro fit, although that depends on position of wet rooms and the first floor construction. I have regular timber joists with plasterboarding and all wet rooms within 5m of each other.

    There are two types of duct, flat profile and round profile. I assume retro-fit would use flat profile due to space constraints in the ceiling voids.

    If you have the existing passive vents in the non-wet rooms, you just need to put in the ducting (as much rigid as possible, and any flexible ducting should be as straight as possible) and the attic unit, and then vent that out through the eaves (again, there should be vents there already). In my case I have three bathrooms and a kitchen, but will probably leave the downstairs toilet as it's not damp enough to benefit. I have a utility with a condenser dryer which also doesn't suffer condensation.

    The centralised Ventaxia multi-vent units can be had for a few hundred, like <£300 on sale at the moment (I don't know whether Aereco is much more expensive?).

    So, few hundred for the unit, a bit of ducting, electrician....where does €4-6k come from?

    And you're saying that there's no drilling or boxing in of ducts? Are they going to leave holes in the ceiling? What about filling any existing vents in the wet rooms?

    Confused.

    The 4-6k is supply and fit. The lower end was for aereco and and 5.8k was for another brand. No building work included. All ceilings are down etc so its like a new build really. I've priced to buy aereco and fit myself but its still 2.8k plus all the ducting and insulation on top. Lunos for system only was coming back at 4.5k
    I've 5 bathrooms plus kitchen n utility so maybe that's part of the reason for high price


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    #11
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Supersonic42 wrote: »
    The 4-6k is supply and fit. The lower end was for aereco and and 5.8k was for another brand. No building work included. All ceilings are down etc so its like a new build really. I've priced to buy aereco and fit myself but its still 2.8k plus all the ducting and insulation on top. Lunos for system only was coming back at 4.5k
    I've 5 bathrooms plus kitchen n utility so maybe that's part of the reason for high price
    What do you get for the 2.8k? Just the central extract unit?

    The Vent Axia 445655 Sentinel Multivent apparently does 6 wet rooms + kitchen and is €550 online including VAT.


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    #12
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Lumen wrote: »
    What do you get for the 2.8k? Just the central extract unit?

    The Vent Axia 445655 Sentinel Multivent apparently does 6 wet rooms + kitchen and is €550 online including VAT.

    I’ve been quoted 1k inc vat for fan using 3 extract pipes (& 3 internal rh grills)


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    #13
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    BryanF wrote: »
    I’ve been quoted 1k inc vat for fan using 3 extract pipes (& 3 internal rh grills)
    This technology sounds much worse value when you use the words "fan" and "pipe" rather than "mechanical extract unit" and "duct".


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    #14
    Tefral
    Registered Users Posts: 4,313 ✭✭✭Tefral


    Heres my DCV quote for my 2800sq ft house with 3 bathrooms. (you need to view this with a PC to see it right)

    Qty Item Description Price Total

    Aereco Products:

    1 EHM1276 EMM2 - Humidity Sensitive Air Inlet 5-35 m3/h, with Closing Device, White €37.69 €37.69
    1 AEA731 ASAM - Canopy with Insect Grille, White, for EMM/EHA/EHA² €6.41 €6.41
    7 EHT969 EHT Acoustic KIT: EHT + Canopy with Insect Grille + Plastic Wall Sleeve + 2 Acoustic Foams Ø100 €83.84 €586.85
    7 AEA064 EHT - Airflow Controller for EHT €12.60 €88.20

    2 BXC273 BXC - Humidity Sensitive Extract Unit 12-70 m3/h, Ø125 €88.15 €176.29
    2 BXC275 BXC - Humidity Sensitive delayed PIR Extract Unit 12-70/70 m3/h, Boost via Motion Sensor, Ø125 €119.55 €239.09
    1 BXC299 BXC - Delayed PIR Extract Unit 12/70 m3/h, Boost through Motion Sensor, Ø125 €103.39 €103.39
    3 CAL261 BXC - Rectifier 12V AC/3V DC for BXC €14.07 €42.22

    1 V4A336 V4A Premium - Central Acoustic Fan 3/4 Wet Rooms - 210 m3/h €386.04 €386.04
    3 AVE055 V4A - Connecting Spigot 125 for V4A €11.57 €34.71
    1 V2A032 V2A - Central Acoustic Fan for 2 Wet Rooms - up to 80 m3/h at 80 Pa - 230V €274.64 €274.64
    2 AEA877 V2A - Connecting Sleeve 125 for V2A €4.69 €9.38
    1 AEA809 Connecting Spigot D125/D100 €7.43 €7.43

    Carriage:

    1 Z2D Zone Two Carriage €55.00 €55.00
    TOTAL EX-VAT €2,047.34


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    #15
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,193 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Is there any heat recovery in any of the non MHVR stuff being considered here

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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    #16
    Tefral
    Registered Users Posts: 4,313 ✭✭✭Tefral


    Calahonda52 wrote: »
    Is there any heat recovery in any of the non MHVR stuff being considered here

    Nope. But if you are not going for a very low airtightness then its nearly not worth it.


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    #17
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,193 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Tefral wrote: »
    Nope. But if you are not going for a very low airtightness then its nearly not worth it.

    I agree, just want to make sure the others are not mixing apples and eggs, at 500 lids for a 6 room fan :)

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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    #18
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    @Supersonic42 who priced the Lunos? They don't seem to have a list of registered installers.


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    #19
    Supersonic42
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Supersonic42


    Lumen wrote: »
    @Supersonic42 who priced the Lunos? They don't seem to have a list of registered installers.

    Partel in galway supply it


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    #20
    Supersonic42
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Supersonic42


    Dardania wrote: »
    I've retro-fitted the Aereco system, and find it very good.
    One small advice, be careful with inlet vent positioning to avoid draughts affecting people. If I were doing it again, I'd either choose different locations for vents, or choose inlets that open & close automatically depending on external temperature (I think Vent Axia do one)

    Regarding MHRV, I think it's very disruptive to fit unless in a bungalow etc. One advantage is you don't need to undercut doors

    Is it straightforward to set up everything
    once ducting is run?


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    #21
    Charlie 08
    Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭Charlie 08


    bringing up this thread again as I've a similar question.
    Have priced the Aereco and Lunos ALD-S DCM systems and both come in with a similar price (Not cheap:( )
    Any experiences of either system or why I should go for one over the other??
    House is 2004 build so haven't priced MHRV as doubt we'd be airtight enough.

    Thanks


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    #22
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    Charlie 08 wrote: »
    bringing up this thread again as I've a similar question.
    Have priced the Aereco and Lunos ALD-S DCM systems and both come in with a similar price (Not cheap:(  )
    Any experiences of either system or why I should go for one over the other??
    House is 2004 build so haven't priced MHRV as doubt we'd be airtight enough.

    Thanks
    From looking at the datasheet for that Lunos ALD-S, it doesn't seem to modulate the air inlet in response to any criteria (e.g. external air temperature or internal humidity).
    See my response from January above, post number 4. draughts (and perception of them) can be a problem unless you have good placement of the air inlet.


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    #23
    Charlie 08
    Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭Charlie 08


    Thanks Dardania,

    Either systems won't leave me with much change out of 5k so need to get this right?! Hadn't realised how expensive it would be before I started researching...
    Don't want the traditional wall vent.
    Any other brands I could research/people could recommend?


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    #24
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    You could look at the Vent Axia ranges - see: https://www.vent-axia.com/range/private-refurbishment?field_range_temperature_value=All&field_internal_external_value=All&field_range_install_type_value=All&field_range_ventilation_value=Extract&field_impeller_value=All&field_range_room_type_value=All&field_range_mode_value=All&field_motor_value=All&field_range_product_type_value=All&items_per_page=60

    They seem to have an individual extract fan which is demand controlled (so fit 2 or three of them around the home) or they also have a setup similar to Aereco where you have a single centralised fan.
    Not sure of prices, however I'd say it's easier to find Vent Axia using trade websites.


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    #25
    DamoKen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭DamoKen


    Similar position to a few other posters. House is 1850's, we've insulated to a large degree and replaced windows that are rotten with double glazing replicas secondary glazing those I could save.

    Knew before we bought that the house is never going to be airtight without radical changes, not what I'd want anyway and couldn't afford if I did.

    Have looked at PIV, in particular the drimaster but not sure if this is promising more than it can deliver for the size and shape of the house, fair few negative reviews as well concerning exchanging warm air with cold. DCV is something else I've been looking at but seems to be a lot of contrary opinions on airtight requirements for this to work effectively.

    Thinking at this stage before blowing the remaining budget on something unsuitable the best thing might be to get some on site advice from a reputable company that specialises in ventilation, even better if that specialisation is toward period properties.

    So looking for recommendations in the coastal area of Meath/North Dublin/Louth area. Think it's against charter rules to post directly in the thread but if anyone has any companies they'd recommend would appreciate a pm.

    Cheers


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    #26
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,989 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    those prices dont seem to make DCV anything near a viable option for a new build.


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    #27
    booooonzo
    Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭booooonzo


    Just bumping this thread again as we are in the same position with a period property.
    prob won't be air tight enough for mvhr so looking to go with dcv mev.

    Any one with experience/pricing/recommendations would love to hear from you.

    2 bath showers/1 toilet/1 kitchen

    thanks


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    #28
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    booooonzo wrote: »
    Just bumping this thread again as we are in the same position with a period property.
    prob won't be air tight enough for mvhr so looking to go with dcv mev.

    Any one with experience/pricing/recommendations would love to hear from you.

    2 bath showers/1 toilet/1 kitchen

    thanks

    My comments in post 4 are still valid: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105887214&postcount=4

    With a period property, I presume its brick externally? You'd want to get a nice, chill colour for the external vent.
    And since I've fitted my DCV system, I kind of wish I fitted a solution which bears in mind the external temperature to help with preventing discomfort internally - I think Vent Axia do a product which closes down when it's exceptionally cold outside. I had similar in an apartment in a Nordic country, and it was a right job, combined with a DCV fan.


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    #29
    CHorn
    Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭CHorn


    Tefral wrote: »
    Heres my DCV quote for my 2800sq ft house with 3 bathrooms. (you need to view this with a PC to see it right)

    Qty Item Description Price Total

    Aereco Products:

    1 EHM1276 EMM2 - Humidity Sensitive Air Inlet 5-35 m3/h, with Closing Device, White €37.69 €37.69
    1 AEA731 ASAM - Canopy with Insect Grille, White, for EMM/EHA/EHA² €6.41 €6.41
    7 EHT969 EHT Acoustic KIT: EHT + Canopy with Insect Grille + Plastic Wall Sleeve + 2 Acoustic Foams Ø100 €83.84 €586.85
    7 AEA064 EHT - Airflow Controller for EHT €12.60 €88.20

    2 BXC273 BXC - Humidity Sensitive Extract Unit 12-70 m3/h, Ø125 €88.15 €176.29
    2 BXC275 BXC - Humidity Sensitive delayed PIR Extract Unit 12-70/70 m3/h, Boost via Motion Sensor, Ø125 €119.55 €239.09
    1 BXC299 BXC - Delayed PIR Extract Unit 12/70 m3/h, Boost through Motion Sensor, Ø125 €103.39 €103.39
    3 CAL261 BXC - Rectifier 12V AC/3V DC for BXC €14.07 €42.22

    1 V4A336 V4A Premium - Central Acoustic Fan 3/4 Wet Rooms - 210 m3/h €386.04 €386.04
    3 AVE055 V4A - Connecting Spigot 125 for V4A €11.57 €34.71
    1 V2A032 V2A - Central Acoustic Fan for 2 Wet Rooms - up to 80 m3/h at 80 Pa - 230V €274.64 €274.64
    2 AEA877 V2A - Connecting Sleeve 125 for V2A €4.69 €9.38
    1 AEA809 Connecting Spigot D125/D100 €7.43 €7.43

    Carriage:

    1 Z2D Zone Two Carriage €55.00 €55.00
    TOTAL EX-VAT €2,047.34
    Just wondering where you sourced the #s here, direct from AERECO?

    Any help/pointers on suppliers appreciated, we're trying to source almost exactly the same list. Thanks.


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    #30
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,811 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Has anyone tried using the aereco eht vents in the ceiling and out through s tile vent as opposed to through a wall?


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    #31
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,811 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Another Q, with the aereco system, what is the benefit of having a centrally ducted system as opposed to a fan unit (can easily be humidity controlled) in each wet room/kitchen?


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