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wife or mother (update)

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  • 02-12-2019 4:00pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    Sorry previous thread was locked , I had a really busy month in work and thanks to all that replied. I've been going almost Non contact with parents for the last while. Its great and if I see my parents name show up on phone I get a bout of anxiety.

    My siblings have started to totally ignore me and its quite tough. I was contacted by one of them last week to say that they think my parents are in ill health and its because of me and my refusal to fix things, I can't face it all again and told my sibling I need to protect myself I've my own problems . My sibling just hung up and I feel like I'm totally alone now and have lost my whole family. I keep getting the line " you've only one mother and father " from my siblings.
    I feel down lately . I've lived a good life and tried to be a good person and now struggling coming to christmas explaining to my kids that they probably won't get to see their cousins over the holidays , my wife is super supportive and wants me to stand my ground. I don't know whether to see a councilor or not , I think i just need to stay strong .


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭seenitall


    Hi OP,

    Your siblings are acting as the "flying monkeys" for your mother's narcissistic systems. Look it up, knowledge is indeed power, so empower yourself with tools to understand and deal with this emotional blackmail and manipulation.

    Well done on the decision and the steps taken to protect yourself and your family so far. But you are very far from being out of the woods yet. They will be stepping up with the tools of guilt-tripping you that are at their disposal, I'm afraid.

    The situation you are now finding yourself in is a really, really textbook situation when trying to extract yourself from the toxicity of a narcissist's malevolent, overreaching clutch.

    I've had to learn to stop caring, OP, that's the only way you get out alive. I wasn't believed. I was told "But she's your MOTHER!". I felt gaslighted and dismissed all over again, second hand if you like.

    Stay strong. You have to know what is being done to you so you can implement all the correct tools appropriate for your protection. Read up on this stuff. I am now a different person than I used to be, a much more peaceful and content one. You can be, too.

    All the best to you and your family, and have a happy, peaceful Christmas :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Staying strong and talking to a professional about this are not things you need to pick between, you can do both. You don't have to if you don't want to or feel like you don't need to, but please don't deny that to yourself if it's only because you feel like you "should" be able to handle this or it's a show of weakness or anything like that.

    I remember your previous thread and my heart goes out to you, I really believe you're doing the right thing but of course it's difficult, and you seem like a very considerate, decent person who would feel awful when subjected to this kind of guilt tripping.

    And I agree with the poster above, this is CLASSIC behaviour. People who have been through this themselves could probably very accurately predict the next few moves. And they ARE moves. Calculated to hurt, divide and control.

    Getting through this Christmas will be a huge step. Your children might be confused or hurt or angry but what you are doing will protect them in the long term. When I was a kid my parents cut someone out of their lives and ours very abruptly. It wasn't a relative but a very close family friend whose kids were a huge part of our lives. They would not tell us what happened. I asked and was told as an adult and oh boy, they were very right to do it. It was a distressing experience for me but a) you do get over stuff at that age and b) long term there could have been a lot more damage and distress caused by keeping the relationship for the sake of not upsetting us.

    Sorry, that's not hugely relevant but just try not to feel bad for doing the right thing for your wife and kids, they'll pull through.

    You say your wife is supportive, which is great but I hope she's supportive when you talk about how hard this is for you and how sad you are?

    You sound like such a lovely, kind man OP, and you basically did lick that off the stones by the sounds of it. You don't deserve to have to do this and I'm sorry it's happening to you and your wife and kids.

    Get informed, stay the course, take your comfort and joy where you can for the Christmas, and don't write counselling off as an option. Good luck.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭Accepting Cookies


    Hi, so glad you checked back in. What you are feeling is totally normal, and you're definitely not alone. As the other posts have said, this is textbook stuff you're going through. But firstly I have to say well done in putting your family, your marriage, and ultimately your mental health first. Of course this is very hard for you, and it's really a grieving process for you now. The big clue to how toxic and damaging this has been to you is that you said you have a bout of anxiety when their names show up on your phone. The dynamic between you and your parents isn't healthy. Some members of your family are going to thrash around because the control over you has been lost. But you've done the healthiest thing you could do for you and your immediate family now, be assured it was the right choice.

    Now comes the steadfastness, the processing and the healing, and that's just going to take some time.
    Expect that you will be manipulated to believe this is your fault. Remember to believe in yourself and your truth - it isn't your fault. This problem isn't yours to fix. You ARE a good person, trying to live your best life, and unfortunately due to her behavior this is what it takes. You need to do what you have to do to protect yourself and your marriage and therefore your family. I can see you feel bad about the cousins, and of course it's sad, of course it's not ideal. But what your kids need most is a peaceful and secure home life. They need you and your wife, their parents, to be strong and happy and healthy. You and your wife can't be any of that with the toxic behavior in your life. What your kids need more than anything else is for their parents to be okay, so that they aren't affected too. And maybe one day your siblings will learn from this too and come to support you more, but maybe they won't. At the end of the day you are the one modeling healthy behavior and boundaries; they may learn something from you.

    It is impossible to have a positive relationship with anyone who refuses to acknowledge what they've done, refuses to give a genuine apology-and change their behavior. When this is the way it has to be, there's sadness and loss and in a way you have to grieve that and those relationships, it's not what any of you deserve. It's a painful reality to come to terms with the fact that sometimes people, especially parents and those we loved, are just not capable of being what we need and deserve.
    All I can say is I promise it gets better. It gets easier, and your mental health and marriage will strengthen and improve. I do recommend a lot of self care to help get you through. Whatever works, any and all. Walks and time outdoors, talking through your emotions with your wife, writing in a journal, listening to music, etc. Whatever you can think of to turn to that helps blow off steam, that you enjoy and can focus on, and of course, the right fit counselor can help immensely. If so find one who has toxic family experience. Seek support online like you're doing, google things such as surviving toxic parents/family, join toxic family fb groups, order books, all the things. :) Hang in there and focus on your family now. x


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Really genuinely thanks all for the replies , its so hard to stay strong and not pick up the phone and ring and see are my parents ok. But I know it will start the cycle over again , my mum will cry down the phone and start on about my wife and we are back at square one.
    I hate the mental imagery I have in my head thats the worst part , when i'm busy in work its ok , when the kids go to bed I struggle and it never really goes away. I'm struggling at the thoughts of christmas now and just want it to be over.

    I'm a weak person , I know there where comments about manning up in the last thread and its easier said than done , mentally I find it hard to forget things and move on . Like a sad news story will play on my mind so you can imagine what this is like.
    Anyway thanks a mill


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭Accepting Cookies


    It is really hard to stay strong. You sound a lot like my husband in personality and temperament. My husband wasn't able to find strength and bravery about something very similar for so long, for too long, and it nearly broke us. As it stands it caused a lot of damage that now has to be healed from. And it's only when this toxic garbage is out of your lives can the healing begin. It is so so hard to go against the love you may feel for her, the duty you may feel towards her and the societal pressure from people who say things like "but she's your mother." Pay them no attention. She may be your mother who gave you life, but you don't owe her yours at the expense of your marriage, family, and mental health.

    If I remember correctly you and your wife have been subjected to this behavior for more than 15 years? I honestly don't know how your wife has coped for so long. We were about 7 years into it when I told my husband I feel I need to divorce just to have normality and peace in my life again. My husband's inability to put an end to it triggered anxiety and panic attacks in both of us for the first time. What we went through, and what you're going through, is quite severe and so wrong.

    Yes, it's hard to stay strong and your mother/other family members will try all they can to break through your boundaries. Playing into this illness angle (which is a very common TACTIC) and calling your parents now would be a huge mistake. It will open you back up to the abuse, it will threaten your marriage and therefore your children's security. It's great you can see this truth though, it was hard for us to even get to this stage of realization, too. It's been YEARS of this- she's not going to change. A real or imaginary illness doesn't change anything. A genuine apology and changed behavior does. It doesn't sound like she's capable of that.

    This same conflict and it's fallout has been on my mind every single day too. It's the biggest thing I have to work through. Now that the wall is up, the boundary is in place, the healing can start. You've been stuck in this toxic cycle for so long and it's been a huge part of your life... 15 years!! The ruts in your brain over all this are well established. I can only imagine your wife is horribly suffering from her thoughts over this too. For me, the ugly words and actions and dashed hopes play on my mind almost daily, and the pain I experience of not having them as loving family for us and our child is hard to bear. But like I said, each day that passes with their ugly absence we both feel a bit better, a bit stronger. I can feel and see that it's lessening for me now.

    The best solution for us here in our family was to break that mental cycle throgh eft/CBT mental training. Specifically, finding an EFT/Tapping therapist who knew exactly what to do in this situation is what truly saved me and put an end to my panic attacks. EFT tapping can be done by anyone at any time. The beauty of it is you can do this on your own too without needing to schedule a therapy appointment every time. It combines traditional talk therapy with tapping with your fingers on certain parts of your body. It lowers your cortisol (stress) and helps re-train your thoughts. It begins with acknowledging your feelings and the impact it is having on you and your body. Don't push your feelings away, spend a few minutes acknowledging them, how they make you feel (sick in the stomach for me and high anxiety) and then work on letting them pass through. Your brain is now in these thought ruts. When you realize you are ruminating on this, maybe a bad memory or guilt, you must force yourself to think of something positive instead. A happy memory with your wife and family, or maybe think about the excitement of something coming instead, a holiday perhaps? Anyway, have a look into this type of therapy, I couldn't recommend it more. You may feel badly over this for a while yet, recovery is a long road. You'll get to a stage where you're ready to emotionally accept the reality of this and the loss of relationships that come with it. Mind yourself. x


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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,449 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    meh2019 wrote: »
    Really genuinely thanks all for the replies , its so hard to stay strong and not pick up the phone and ring and see are my parents ok. But I know it will start the cycle over again , my mum will cry down the phone and start on about my wife and we are back at square one.
    I hate the mental imagery I have in my head thats the worst part , when i'm busy in work its ok , when the kids go to bed I struggle and it never really goes away. I'm struggling at the thoughts of christmas now and just want it to be over.

    I'm a weak person , I know there where comments about manning up in the last thread and its easier said than done , mentally I find it hard to forget things and move on . Like a sad news story will play on my mind so you can imagine what this is like.
    Anyway thanks a mill

    Please don't call yourself weak. It's an incredibly difficult situation, and it is only natural that it is on your mind a lot.

    I think you might find counselling helpful, to chat it all out with someone completely outside of the situation.

    Mind yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    meh2019 wrote: »
    say that they think my parents are in ill health and its because of me and my refusal to fix things

    thats some bargain basement manipulation there. tell them they need to up their game, pathetic stuff. just in case you cant see the wood for the trees at the moment, not talking to a pair of adults does not result in their "ill health". stay strong and have a peaceful Christmas.


  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭crazylady1


    You're not a weak person OP. It makes me sad that you think that. You sound like a highly sensitive person or an emphatic person. It means you feel or sense things more than other people may. You should research these if you haven't already. I am a highly sensitive person(hsp). I grew with a narcissist father. It was only through counselling that I realised this. I agree with all the advice given so far. I recommend counselling to help you develop coping skills in being able to deal with these manipulations from your father and siblings because this is what they are. They know what buttons to push to make you feel guilty. Wishing you the best


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    OP

    pick the sibling you're closest to, pick up the phone to them and tell them you'll meet them at your place if they like, but you wont be visiting your parents again as things stand.

    tell them you don't appreciate their interference, you've made a decision about your parents behaviour and you've drawn a line under it.

    it needs to be done, its a proactive step you will feel better for making and it will help you move past the "all eyes are on me waiting for me to bend" stage you are in


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I rang my brother and we had a good chat , it all came out and I showed him this thread. He couldn't believe it he says his eyes were opened it never really hit home to him before.

    Some stuff we laughed about , when I was younger I was going to my debs and asked a girl to come my mam didn't like her "size" and told me to find a skinnier girl because she wasn't getting into the house . I ended up missing my debs and breaking up with the girl because I couldn't give her a reason not to come , I lied and she had bought a dress.

    Some stuff is sadder the fact my mam bad mouthed all her own brothers and sisters and her mam and dad and my fathers parents and his siblings , I never had any relationships with these and some have passed on now . My cousins of whom there are many are all close to each except for our family , we were invited to weddings birthdays etc but the invites where never passed on , this was only realized when my brother met a cousin who he barely recognized on a night out and they became friends on Facebook. My mam has controlled our relationships and ruined any chance of positive relationships with my own cousins , she is now working her way through my own siblings making sure to divide us .My life could have been so different , my brother agreed there is just no defending her anymore , I'm hoping my brother and I can stay close but the other siblings are blindsided and I don't see things changing.

    Thanks again for all comments and advice , each one has been read a few times as I confirm things in my own mind its good to pop back her during the day and read the replies again to reaffirm things, must sound stupid but ive read this thread probably 20 times today alone.

    Thanks again


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    Keep staying strong. You do not sound like a weak person by any stretch of the imagination, not at all. You sound like a very kind and decent man. If you were weak we would never have heard from you again!

    Your other siblings will need to figure it out for themselves, hopefully they will. Your mother will only get so much mileage out of your decision to stop engaging with her, so eventually she will turn on another one of your siblings. She will always need someone to blame. That's probably the only way they will see things as they really are. Maybe they never will.

    I really do think you should look into counselling. You're going to have a lot of mixed feelings over Christmas, everything from missing your family to being relieved at the lack of tension to being angry that you're in this position to feeling guilty that your children don't get to see their cousins, and all the rest, it all takes its toll mentally. I would research it over Christmas and see if you can make an appointment in the new year, if things are too hectic right now. But it sounds like you have a lot to get off your chest, I think you'd get a lot of benefit from being able to do that face to face.

    Take care and I hope things improve for you x


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭StinkyMunkey


    You can choose your friends but not your family.

    As I've said before, just because your someone's parent it doesn't give you the right to emotionally & psychologically abuse your child. As a parent it's your job to protect your child from harm. A narcissist like your mother is incapable of thinking of anyone but herself, add this to the fact she is a nasty piece of work and all that makes for is a trail of heartache And destruction.

    Stay strong for your wife and children, there will come a day when all this is just a bad memory.

    Go enjoy Xmas with the people who matter OP.


  • Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Hey, that's two of you that's had the scales fall from your eyes. Your brother will have his own experiences, similar to yours of your mother. His partner (assuming he has one) will likely point out a few more things that have occurred that your brother hasn't yet thought of.

    So that's potentially four people that sees through her. It might be too early for your brother to stand up vocally for you, but you can take comfort that any stirring about you and your partner he hears he's going to dismiss in his head now. And maybe now that there's two of you one or two more will be reflecting on their own experiences and coming to similar conclusions or will with time.

    You've had this all your life and are conditioned to it, so it will take some time to fully extricate yourselves from that Fear-Obligation-Guilt cycle. Toxic Parents by Susan Forward is a good book that explains the dynamic and those involved.


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