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Being a "good person"

  • 23-07-2018 8:18pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭


    I've always wondered is it a person's thoughts or actions that determines whether they will be thought of as a "good person" or a "bad person" by society at large.

    For example, if a man is constantly thinking of murdering or stealing or saying hurtful things to people, or rape etc, yet never legally or morally outwardly sets a foot wrong, i.e., is polite, mannerly, helpful, diligent at job, responsible in the home etc, is that person a bad person masquerading as a good person, or is he a good person, or is he judged by his thoughts, is he a bad person.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Doctors differ and patients die..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 612 ✭✭✭KevinCavan


    I've always wondered is it a person's thoughts or actions that determines whether they will be thought of as a "good person" or a "bad person" by society at large.

    For example, if a man is constantly thinking of murdering or stealing or saying hurtful things to people, or rape etc, yet never legally or morally outwardly sets a foot wrong, i.e., is polite, mannerly, helpful, diligent at job, responsible in the home etc, is that person a bad person masquerading as a good person, or is he a good person, or is he judged by his thoughts, is he a bad person.

    In Ireland a “good person” generally talks about how wholesome they are in a public setting, such as a staff room.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭Squall Leonhart


    No, I don't mean a person who's vocally trying to let others know how good they are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 612 ✭✭✭KevinCavan


    It’s hard to know nowadays especially, somebody will buy a homeless person food and video tape the whole thing and put it online.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭jaxxx


    Everyone gets bad thoughts from time to time, so having bad thoughts doesn't make you bad. Sometimes you cannot conrol your thoughts. But whether you choose to act on those thoughts, that is what is key.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,676 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I've always wondered is it a person's thoughts or actions that determines whether they will be thought of as a "good person" or a "bad person" by society at large.

    For example, if a man is constantly thinking of murdering or stealing or saying hurtful things to people, or rape etc, yet never legally or morally outwardly sets a foot wrong, i.e., is polite, mannerly, helpful, diligent at job, responsible in the home etc, is that person a bad person masquerading as a good person, or is he a good person, or is he judged by his thoughts, is he a bad person.
    No, he's a good person. Arguably, he's a better person than someone who doesn't experience these temptations, and therefore doesn't display the same qualities of courage, fortitude, commitment, etc, in controlling and resisting them.

    Ethics is about what we do, in the widest sense. Thinking is only a small part of what we do. Making a moral assessment of someone based entirely on what he thinks, while ignoring his concrete actions, is flawed.


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    I've always wondered is it a person's thoughts or actions that determines whether they will be thought of as a "good person" or a "bad person" by society at large.
    Raises several questions. Difficult to answer. To be "thought of as a good person or a bad person by society at large" is problematic. For example, to what extent could "society at large" thoughts be due to impression management for a celebrity or other public figure? Does "society" only see what is projected? By TV and news outlets? By social media? All that is managed by agents. Few really know a celebrity or other public figure as a real person. Someone not of celebrity or of public status may too self-manage their impressions for "society at large." Other questions. Are thoughts different from actions? Or are thoughts actions in themselves? In Orwell's 1984 there were thought crimes. Who would like to live in such society? Who already does, where "society at large" determines goodness and badness? Still more. What constitutes a "good person" vs. "bad person?" Is there a criteria that everyone agrees to? Are there group differences? County differences? State? Regional? National? Continental? Another. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror" (Jean Rostand, Thoughts of a Biologist, 1939). Also, today the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library is exhibiting the famous or infamous (good or bad?) life of Genghis Khan. "Society at large" thoughts? Yours? Above comments only scratch the surface of your larger question(s).


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    we can only be judged on what we do, anything else means naught


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    we can only be judged on what we do, anything else means naught
    "Anything else" may determine meaning. Content? Context? Think about "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." Cliche or meaningful?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Joe1919


    ...I've always wondered is it a person's thoughts or actions that determines whether they will be thought of as a "good person" or a "bad person" by society at large....
    That whosoever looketh
    on a woman to lust after her hath committed
    adultery with her already in his heart.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:27%E2%80%9328


    This was frequently discussed since ancient time . But you can make more sub divisions.
    1.A person can think about something bad e.g. Getting revenge on his rival.
    2.A person can have a desire to get revenge on his rival.
    3.A person can intend to get revenge on his rival.
    4 A person can attempt to get revenge on his rival.
    5 A person can act (and succeed) to get revenge on his rival.

    I think we can all have 'bad' desires but there is an important difference between 'desire' and 'intention'.
    I think (imo) a 'good' person tries to pull themselves back at the desire stage e.g. tries to talk themselves out of the desire to do something bad.


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    Not acted upon conspiracy. Thought, action, or both?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    I've always wondered is it a person's thoughts or actions that determines whether they will be thought of as a "good person" or a "bad person" by society at large.

    For example, if a man is constantly thinking of murdering or stealing or saying hurtful things to people, or rape etc, yet never legally or morally outwardly sets a foot wrong, i.e., is polite, mannerly, helpful, diligent at job, responsible in the home etc, is that person a bad person masquerading as a good person, or is he a good person, or is he judged by his thoughts, is he a bad person.

    A persons perceived (and actual) morality is totally contingent on what they do, not what they think.

    We don’t know what people think.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,676 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    A persons perceived (and actual) morality is totally contingent on what they do, not what they think.
    This is a false dichotomy, since thinking is something people do.


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    I've always wondered is it a person's thoughts or actions that determines whether they will be thought of as a "good person" or a "bad person" by society at large.
    Socrates discussed "The Good Life." Not in writings, but through the interpretations of Aristophanes, Xenophon, and Plato during his time. And many different interpretations since. Of note, Socrates was charged, tried, convicted, and executed essentially for expressing his "thoughts."


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    I've always wondered is it a person's thoughts or actions that determines whether they will be thought of as a "good person" or a "bad person" by society at large.

    For example, if a man is constantly thinking of murdering or stealing or saying hurtful things to people, or rape etc, yet never legally or morally outwardly sets a foot wrong, i.e., is polite, mannerly, helpful, diligent at job, responsible in the home etc, is that person a bad person masquerading as a good person, or is he a good person, or is he judged by his thoughts, is he a bad person.

    What a person says matters a great deal. Hitler expressed himself rather forcefully with terrible consequences. Leaving the Hitler example aside, people definitely get judged, sometimes rather severely by what they say. I have often heard right people being questioned in an aggressive style with rapid fire questions by journalists who have already made a judgement about the person and are not interested enough to wait for the interviewees answers. Indeed the bible tells us that even harbouring certain emotions is sinful. What right do we have to be angry with others after Christ`s sacrifice for us?

    What people do of course also matters, By their deeds you shall know them. So, simply meaning to do what is right is not enough. People really must try to follow through.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,676 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    It’s easy to fall into a habit of thinking of morality as consisting of a list of “thou shalt nots” - don’t kill, don’t lie, don’t cheat, don’t hurt people, don’t exploit people, etc, etc - and that if you avoid doing these things, you are a good person. In this framework, thoughts which you keep to yourself can’t kill, cheat, hurt etc others, and so are irrelevant to whether you are a good person or not.

    However, if you stop thinking of the moral life as a matter of observing a list of prohibitions, and start thinking of it as matter of living a good life, living virtuously, a different picture emerges. Living as well as you can, allowing and encouraging the flourishing of your capacities, talents, etc, definitely involves not getting mired in negative, egoistic, belittling, etc thoughts.

    Plus, even if you think morality is mainly about how you treat others, and excludes how you treat yourself, it’s still more than a matter of not actively harming others; it involves treating others as well as possible, doing as much good as possible, conferring as much benefit as possible. And If I’m barely resisting the urge to strangle you, well, it’s good that I’m resisting the urge, but the fact that I feel the urge at all is surely going to get in the way of my being actively good to you, actively generous towards you, doing all the good for you that I possibly can.

    Aristotle is very keen on the development of habits of virtue - the idea that training, initially by your parents and teachers and later by yourself - in acts of virtue develops virtuous impulses and habits and helps us to “internalise” the virtues - if trained to be generous, we actually become generous and feel generosity rather than envy; if trained to be honest we actually become honest and feel truthful rather than deceptive; and so on.

    so on this view, the person who struggles with temptations to violence, dishonesty, etc and overcomes them, so that he treats people justly and fairly is certainly virtuous. But he would be more virtuous if he learned not to feel violent, dishonest, etc in the first place.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    This is a false dichotomy, since thinking is something people do.

    Pedant. Clearly in context what people do meant their physical actions.

    The fact that thinking is something people do is irrelevant to their morality.

    If someone has a horrible inner life and a perfect outer one then it is on the latter that we judge them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,676 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Pedant. Clearly in context what people do meant their physical actions.

    The fact that thinking is something people do is irrelevant to their morality.

    If someone has a horrible inner life and a perfect outer one then it is on the latter that we judge them.
    I'm not being a pedant. Our judgment of their morality can only be made on externals, but our judgment of their morality is not the same thing as their morality. What people think may be irrelevant to our judgment, since we cannot know about it, but it's not irrelevant to their morality, since it is in fact something they do that has moral significance.

    Unless, that is, you want to make an argument that if we don't know about it, it can't have any moral signficance. Do you want to make that argument?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Joe1919


    If someone has a horrible inner life and a perfect outer one then it is on the latter that we judge them.

    I think the above is true only in respect to attitude to public people who are really at a distant. But as human beings, we often live and work with people quite closely and intimately, in relationships, family and work/school situations, and over time, they often see us as we really are with our thoughts, desires and intentions. Its hard to hide. We let things slip. And of course, we also self judge.


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    What a person says matters a great deal.
    Socrates was tried and executed for what he thought and said about those thoughts. If what you say does not matter, then try proclaiming you are an atheist in a predominantly religious country and see how "society at large" treats you, and if they label you as a "bad person."
    The fact that thinking is something people do is irrelevant to their morality.
    Epistemological question. Is thought an action? If so, can thought exhibit morality?


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    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Aristotle is very keen on the development of habits of virtue - the idea that training, initially by your parents and teachers and later by yourself - in acts of virtue develops virtuous impulses and habits and helps us to “internalise” the virtues - if trained to be generous, we actually become generous and feel generosity rather than envy; if trained to be honest we actually become honest and feel truthful rather than deceptive; and so on.
    Do thoughts influence actions? Aristotle's "habits of virtue" would suggest so.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I've always wondered is it a person's thoughts or actions that determines whether they will be thought of as a "good person" or a "bad person" by society at large.


    I think I would go with actions. What constitutes a good person or bad person is what they do with what the world throws at them.



    For the sake of judging someone you appear to consider doing so by their thoughts. For the purposes of this however I wonder should we put those thoughts under the category of what the world throws at them? Functionally - rather than actually.


    So put another way it is not your thoughts or your emotions that define you - after all you can not control many of them anyway - but what you do with them when they come.



    Many people for example class emotions as good or bad. Love is usually thought of as good for example. Hate as bad. Anger somewhere between.


    I would say no emotion is good or bad. It is what you do _with_ that emotion that is relevant. And some people driven by hatred or anger have done great things for it.


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    I think I would go with actions. What constitutes a good person or bad person is what they do with what the world throws at them.
    Martin Hollis, The Cunning Reason (1987) argued that game-theoretic models and theories of rational choice allowed no room for the rational actor. Humans reflect on actions. Further he suggested that actors were not caused to act. They do so to inform their reasons. They have rules and roles provided by society. They read these things and act in terms of their own self-interest. But Hollis was not completely clear if rational thought, in itself, was an action, if not yet acted upon.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    I've always wondered is it a person's thoughts or actions that determines whether they will be thought of as a "good person" or a "bad person" by society at large.

    For example, if a man is constantly thinking of murdering or stealing or saying hurtful things to people, or rape etc, yet never legally or morally outwardly sets a foot wrong, i.e., is polite, mannerly, helpful, diligent at job, responsible in the home etc, is that person a bad person masquerading as a good person, or is he a good person, or is he judged by his thoughts, is he a bad person.

    This raises an interesting epistemological problem of perception. If the man outwardly behaves in a helpful, diligent, and responsible way, others will tend to accept that impression as truth, even if it is just a mask to hide uglier sides of himself. Unless his darker thoughts, fantasies, or desires find expression in word or deed, they may forever remain interior to him and known to him alone. We rarely ever "know" another -- we know only what he or she chooses to reveal to us.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Epistemological problem of perception indeed Vox Nihili. Questions how do we know what we know about a person? Is there a chance that our perception of someone might be biased before they act for the first time before us? Looking through our bias do we in fact see the real person, or does our bias filter our perception in such a way as to miss them partly or completely? Max Weber in Economy and Society suggested that no one was value free. Looking through our values do we see them for real? For example, Del Kelly researched tracking of high school students in America, and found that if a student was from a lower SES, and they got into trouble at school, they would be disciplined. Whereas, if the student was from a high SES there would be a good chance they would be excused, and if asked why later: "Boys will be boys."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    All very true, Black Swan. Generally, we will be more inclined to view favorably (or see as "good") those who are most like us in terms of background, experience, and social values, while those who are least like us sometimes occupy the dehumanized position of the "other."

    I would also agree that preexisting biases can alter our perceptions and evaluations. In a highly Christian community, for instance, someone who goes to church regularly and makes public professions of faith may be perceived as moral, upstanding, and righteous. He may enjoy a high level of social prestige. But in a more secular society, someone doing the same things may be perceived as deluded and foolish.

    How do we cope, too, when someone we have long perceived as "good" turns out not to be? Suppose a favorite actor or other admired public figure is accused of sexual harassment, so that we are asked to change our impression of him entirely and sometimes immediately. Do we acknowledge that our perception was mistaken? Or do we seek retroactively to explain away this new information, claiming "I always knew there was something funny about him"? Humans are masters of rationalization to the point where we can fool even ourselves.


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    Generally, we will be more inclined to view favorably (or see as "good") those who are most like us in terms of background, experience, and social values, while those who are least like us sometimes occupy the dehumanized position of the "other." I would also agree that preexisting biases can alter our perceptions and evaluations.
    Women are...? Men are...? Immigrants are...? Muslims are...? If someone fills in the blank, odds are there's a problem with perception bias.
    How do we cope, too, when someone we have long perceived as "good" turns out not to be? Suppose a favorite actor or other admired public figure is accused of sexual harassment, so that we are asked to change our impression of him entirely and sometimes immediately.
    Inexplicable treatment. Bill Cosby? Bill O'Reilly? Donald Trump? First two accused and prosecuted or fired for alleged sexual abuse. Last elected US President.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,676 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I think the question in the OP can be taken in two ways:
    I've always wondered is it a person's thoughts or actions that determines whether they will be thought of as a "good person" or a "bad person" by society at large.

    1. You could take the view that we only know a person's thoughts to the extent that they disclose them (and disclosing them is itself an action, not a thought) so, necessarily, our view of their morality will always be formed by their actions.

    That's true, but trite. Our judgments can only be informed by what we know. Well, duh. That hardly merits a thread.

    Or . . .

    2. Perhaps the question invites us to assume for the purposes of discussion that we could have perfect knowledge of someone's thoughts and actions. If we perfectly understood a person's thoughts, and their actions, and any tension or conflict between them, would we consider their morality to be determined by their inner thoughts, which disclose character, the authentic self, etc etc, or by their actions, which are instrumental in creating happiness or suffering in others, etc etc.

    Understood this way, the question invites an explanation of what "being a good person" is. Is it primarily a matter of having virtuous character, virtuous instincts and inclinations, or is it primarily a matter or doing good things, even if these may be done for less than good motives? That seems to me a much more interesting and fruitful topic for a philosophy discussion forum, so I'm inclined to treat the question this way. But others may take a different view.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Understood this way, the question invites an explanation of what "being a good person" is. Is it primarily a matter of having virtuous character, virtuous instincts and inclinations, or is it primarily a matter or doing good things, even if these may be done for less than good motives? That seems to me a much more interesting and fruitful topic for a philosophy discussion forum, so I'm inclined to treat the question this way. But others may take a different view.

    That is the more interesting aspect of the question for me as well.

    Even more basically, is there any objective sense in which a person may be called good? Or is "good" always a subjective and historically contingent concept? It's worth noting that people often disagree radically on what constitutes a virtuous character or virtuous actions, so that one person's hero can be another person's villain. For instance, some believe that Edward Snowden acted virtuously to expose abuses of the US surveillance apparatus, at great personal cost, and is thus a good person, even a hero. To others, he stole classified information from the US government and acted traitorously in making state secrets public. For this, he is reviled in some quarters -- the current US president has even suggested that he should be executed.

    Snowden, good person or bad person? Or can he be both simultaneously? And on which criteria do we base such a decision?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    The question about whether we can subjectively decide good from bad is probably off topic for this thread.

    Assuming the universality of the idea that murder is bad. Within societies (if not between them) that’s generally the case. Although of course some people (like slaves) have traditionally had no rights.

    In any case, for the purpose of this thought experiment, imagine a society where murder is considered bad.

    There are two people in this society of otherwise impeccable moral credentials (for this society).

    Person A: thinks murderous thoughts all the time. Never acts on the thoughts, nor does it affect anybody around him. Hes just as pleasant to the people he would prefer dead as to anybody.

    Person B: generally of pleasant mental thoughts but freaks out one day and kills a man who has been verbally bullying him. It’s a crime of anger or passion.

    Since we can’t tell the inner thoughts of A but we can tell the actions of B, this society would judge B to the more immoral of the two.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,676 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    The question about whether we can subjectively decide good from bad is probably off topic for this thread.

    Assuming the universality of the idea that murder is bad. Within societies (if not between them) that’s generally the case. Although of course some people (like slaves) have traditionally had no rights.

    In any case, for the purpose of this thought experiment, imagine a society where murder is considered bad.

    There are two people in this society of otherwise impeccable moral credentials (for this society).

    Person A: thinks murderous thoughts all the time. Never acts on the thoughts, nor does it affect anybody around him. Hes just as pleasant to the people he would prefer dead as to anybody.

    Person B: generally of pleasant mental thoughts but freaks out one day and kills a man who has been verbally bullying him. It’s a crime of anger or passion.

    Since we can’t tell the inner thoughts of A but we can tell the actions of B, this society would judge B to the more immoral of the two.
    Yes. But a more interesting question is, if we could know the inner thoughts of both A and B, would we still judge B to be the more immoral on the basis that he did, in fact, kill a man?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Franz Von Peppercorn: The question about whether we can subjectively decide good from bad is probably off topic for this thread.

    Not really. We can pursue both objective or subjective discussions regarding "Being a Good Person" as titled and introduced by the OP in this thread.


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    Even more basically, is there any objective sense in which a person may be called good?
    Objectively, how do we operationalize a "good" or "bad" person for research purposes, ensuring both reliability and validity?
    Or is "good" always a subjective and historically contingent concept?
    From a Derridean standpoint, is "good" vs. "bad" a dichotomy, suffering from a preferential hierarchy, which may also exclude other dimensions?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Fathom wrote: »
    Socrates was tried and executed for what he thought and said about those thoughts. If what you say does not matter, then try proclaiming you are an atheist in a predominantly religious country and see how "society at large" treats you, and if they label you as a "bad person."
    Epistemological question. Is thought an action? If so, can thought exhibit morality?

    You seem to have misread what I posted but as a devout and practicing Catholic I would proffer an alternative scenario to the above quote, i.e. that of a devout Catholic declaring their faith in a Stalinist-Communist country. Not sure about you but I would prefer the kind concern of good Christians for my immortal soul over a lengthy stint in a gulag.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 249 ✭✭Infernum


    For example, if a man is constantly thinking of murdering or stealing or saying hurtful things to people, or rape etc, yet never legally or morally outwardly sets a foot wrong, i.e., is polite, mannerly, helpful, diligent at job, responsible in the home etc, is that person a bad person masquerading as a good person, or is he a good person, or is he judged by his thoughts, is he a bad person.

    Actions speak louder about a person than what goes on inside their minds. We don't need to know their thought process to determine what kind of person they are, only their contributions towards society.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Is it not hubris of man to make such a statement “you are bad!”? Who has the moral , ethical or General authority to make such a bold appraisal? It’s one of many quirks I find of our species. I don’t think anybody truly has the authority say “you are good or bad” unless they have honestly reviewed their own behavior but even at that we aren’t very good at critically assessing ourselves. I feel if people learned to objectively regulate and review their own behavior they would be less quick at condemning others for their perceived “sins”. Alas, self regulation and personal responsibility are not very popular human traits, it’s self gratifying to point at somebody else’s flaws to prop ourselves up.

    We are monkeys , who wear clothes and think an awful lot about ourselves. Is there anything in the universe more self absorbed then humans? We have the capacity to achieve so many wonderful things and yet we waste our potential on instant gratification, pointing out other people’s defects and chasing shallow interests. Shouldn’t that be considered “a bad Person”? Wasting our most valuable resource , time , on the most mind numbingly wasteful pastimes.

    When you think about it rationally we live on a planet. Not a country or a continent we live on One planet. We are all made from the same primordial ooze. Xenophobia, racism, borders, languages, sexism, unapologetic greed are all needless barriers to good. Why are they even a thing in the modern world? They are nurtured and allowed to thrive in what is generally becoming a more disengaged species. We have never been so connected yet disconnected. We can communicate with people on the other side of the world. More people have access to more information and education and yet primal instincts are allowed to flourish with apathy perhaps filling in a void left from the decline in religion. Religion is/was certainly not without its flaws, but it had a fundamentally good message with good intentions, it was man who corrupted it like man corrupts everything and then proceeds to blame somebody or something else for the misdeeds.

    I find it difficult to not consider our species a self destructive blight on the earth. If Philanthropic Aliens were watching from Afar, they would be flabbergasted as we inevitably destroy ourselves along with many other victims that suffer the misfortune of having to share the earth. Would they think we as a species are collectively a "good person" ?

    What is interesting is that I usually put this viewpoint down to my depression or low moods and I think a society that enjoys judging everybody else would support this line of thinking. How I am feeling is the problem, there is no truth to my sentiments!. But I’m in a really good place right now , very positive about my future and reading a sort of introduction to philosophy book. My views could be dismissed as “you are just feeling low and projecing that on the world” but I don’t believe this is correct. I’m sort of becoming ok with who I am and what I think. I am loving philosophy if I am exploring it correctly.

    There are so many things that I have a passion to discuss but quite frankly I don’t believe most people have the objectivity or emotional balance to discuss these things without reverting to ingrained prejudice or reverting to quite toxic modern methods of discussion (attack the speaker , less emphasis on engaging them on the content or context of the contents of what they are saying).

    I’m becoming ok with not connecting with the majority on topics which I feel is making me a “more good person”. I am getting less angry at people who I used to brand “stupid or ignorant”. I, like them, are neither right or wrong, I just interpret things differently but I am open to change my view if a more logical explanation is expressed. I am reflecting on this new found insight and regulating to make sure that ego and arrogance does not replace my anger.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Is being "good" a variable? If so, does it vary day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month, year-to-year for a lifetime?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Fathom wrote: »
    Is being "good" a variable? If so, does it vary day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month, year-to-year for a lifetime?

    I think this is the case. A person is neither good nor bad at any given time, is it not by their actions that we, as a society, brand a person "good" or "bad". Its not actually the person that is necessarily bad, but their action. I think this is important, to distinguish a persons compounded actions from the person them-self. This doesn't address the general issue that good and bad are subjectively bias opinions for most people that can be regulated by emotions which are unreliable benchmarks.

    Here is an interesting question. Imagine a person is "good" before they are 30 but something happens later on in their lives that causes them to do "bad things". If, for example, they get Alzheimer's at a later age and revert back to their "pre-30 self" is it right to judge them on actions they did after this age? Are they not technically "reborn" and thus technically not responsible for whatever they did in their later self?

    I can see the broader issue of "well do people doing drugs or drinking too much who cause damage while intoxicated automatically get a pass"? But one thing that differentiates the two is that nobody chooses to get Alzheimers, its a disease that resets or destroys your memory for life. Drinking too much or taking drugs that lead to "bad acts" are a personal decision. I mean this purely in the context of this example.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    I've always wondered is it a person's thoughts or actions that determines whether they will be thought of as a "good person" or a "bad person" by society at large.

    For example, if a man is constantly thinking of murdering or stealing or saying hurtful things to people, or rape etc, yet never legally or morally outwardly sets a foot wrong, i.e., is polite, mannerly, helpful, diligent at job, responsible in the home etc, is that person a bad person masquerading as a good person, or is he a good person, or is he judged by his thoughts, is he a bad person.

    It strikes me that he's on a continuum.

    Good person: thinks good and acts good. Out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks (and person acts)

    Bad person: thinks bad and acts bad. Out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks (and person acts)

    The person who thinks bad/acts good might have bad desires but recognizes them as bad desires and keeps them under control so they can't out. His good side is controlling his bad. He might well be gooder than the good person: his bad thoughts might arise from the influence of others rather than anything he has generated within himself. His effort to resist the bad are more laudible than the no effort it takes a good thinking person to act good.

    On the other hand, a person who thinks bad / acts good might merely be afraid of the consequences of acting out his thoughts. He could be badder than the bad person except he's got cowardice to add to his woes.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Literal vs humourous street talk colloquialisms can imply different meanings for "She's good."


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  • Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Hobosan


    Tim Berners Lee seems like a good person. He's the exact type of person that would do great things if he was the richest man in the world... the proof being that he chose not to become the richest person in the world.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Black Swan wrote: »
    Literal vs humourous street talk colloquialisms can imply different meanings for "She's good."
    Derrida discusses signature. How others interpret or misinterpret what a philosopher has stated. To what extent has "being a good person" been misinterpreted by others when citing classical, modern, or postmodern philosophers? Especially classical, ancient philosophers when Plato writes about Aristotle or Socrates over two thousand years ago. And what about Plato's interpretation of Aristotle's or Socrates' signature, and in particular what may address being a good person per Aristotle?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Fathom wrote: »
    Derrida discusses signature. How others interpret or misinterpret what a philosopher has stated. To what extent has "being a good person" been misinterpreted by others when citing classical, modern, or postmodern philosophers?
    Signature has been a major problem when citing others, even when quoting.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Black Swan wrote: »
    Signature has been a major problem when citing others, even when quoting.
    Multiple citations for reliability?


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