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Struggling with 12 year old daughter

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    #32
    idnkph
    Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭idnkph


    Tell me how wrote:
    Also, I do not think it is normal for any 12 year old in a loving house to have to take care of washing their own clothes.

    Sittingpretty wrote:
    I also have to agree on the clothes washing, I wouldn’t expect a 12 year old to maintain their own laundry. I would give her some responsibility and jobs around the house that being said.

    Wheety wrote:
    12 years old is a bit young to have responsibility of washing all her own clothes. Could you not tell her, only things in the laundry basket will be cleaned?

    devlinio wrote:
    You're her mother so it IS your job though. At 12 it certainly isn't her job. Cop on.

    This is what's wrong with this generation. To many people thinking that things like washing clothes IS mammy's job.
    Her mother I think it's doing a great job. She's 12 and needs some personal responsibility.
    Obviously all quoted above don't have kids of this age.
    A kid of 12 should be well able to look after washing their own clothes but mum has had to resort to not washing them because of the abuse she is getting from her.
    That's just reinforcing that she won't stand for the behaviour and is making a stand with those consequences. What message is mum giving her daughter of she just does everything for her while she sprawls doing nothing expecting everything handed to her on a plate?
    That would only make matters worse and turn the little madam into an even bigger beast.
    We were told that she has broken stuff to try get her own way.
    Seriously why should mum do any thing for a petulant brat who I think it's just trying to push the boundaries?



    canonball5 wrote:
    OP, I think you need to cop on and look at yourself here. She's fecking 12, she's a child, you're her mother. You seem to be very tough on her and maybe spending a little time with her even watching TV would be good for her. Barking orders at her clearly isn't working.

    Read the mums replies and stop being so ignorant. Obviously you don't have kids and if you do god help them and you. You can't positivity reinforce bad behaviour and give attention until you get positive behaviour first.

    tretorn wrote:
    Its so sad to read that she tells you she loves you, why dont you say you love her back. You must know she is miserable and you need to talk to her and find out why. Have you spoken to her year head in school, they may be able to point you in the right direction for help and they will be able to tell you what shes like in school.

    Mum already said glowing reports from school. She also said she always tells her she loves her. GO READ HER REPLIES.
    Teenagers get to a point where they think the whole world revolves around them. Most teenagers turn into as5holes for a while but it's up to mum and dad to have rules and boundaries and to stick to them.
    Positive reinforcement for good behaviour and consequences for bad behaviour.

    OP give your daughter chores as another poster has said with a time limit. Same as getting up in the morning. She's still a child but very soon turning into a young adult so still needs routine even more so when she's not at school.
    Give her allocated time slots for watching TV etc.
    Keep the chin up and keep working with your husband. From what you have said I think you are doing a great job.
    So many replies on here mamby pambying and saying do everything for her is a worry for future generations.


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    #33
    Kidkinobe
    Site Banned Posts: 160 ✭✭Kidkinobe


    You should go to the doc and discuss..he/she will no doubt put you on anti depressants...In other words, its not your daughter, its you..


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    #34
    BabysCoffee
    Registered Users Posts: 4,712 ✭✭✭BabysCoffee


    Would you consider getting rid of the tv?


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    #35
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Kidkinobe wrote: »
    You should go to the doc and discuss..he/she will no doubt put you on anti depressants...In other words, its not your daughter, its you..

    That's a completely misleading opinion in my view.

    The OP is struggling to make things better for her and her daughter but to suggest that she requires depression medication is baseless.


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    #36
    Kidkinobe
    Site Banned Posts: 160 ✭✭Kidkinobe


    Tell me how wrote: »
    That's a completely misleading opinion in my view.

    The OP is struggling to make things better for her and her daughter but to suggest that she requires depression medication is baseless.
    You can read the distress in her post...two women going at each other is not an ideal situation as both will refuse to back down and both will only get more aggro over time with each other creating even further chemical imbalances in both their minds.
    As Op has said, her daughter is a lay about, she is feeding off her mums aggro and vis versa, mum needs to go to doc, he will suggest bringing in daughter, within 4 months, things will be back on track.


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    #37
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    My daughter seems to love conflicts and loves shouting especially worse when the wife returns the shouting.

    I've tried to get the wife to bring it down and have showed her how the other one loves it.

    It's a little easier but she is extremely difficult in any task or even just could you help grab something it tends to be met with in a minute or I'm tired or ugh i have to do everything (keV & Perry really reminds me of)

    With her room we tend to go in and help so as to get her actually started.

    Clothes can be a struggle and take some time to arrive down....

    You sometimes just have to keep at them but obviously nagging will only cause more issues so try make things a bit more fun, maybe not best word but just try and be there and help along.


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    #38
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Oh ffs, of course the mother gets admonished here, despite the clearly written and detailed post about how difficult her daughter is being. She's lying around the place day in day out and starting fights - it's hardly unreasonable for a parent to be concerned about this. Good on you for your honesty OP.

    Although in my opinion her laundry may as well be done with everyone else's.

    She reminds me - to a tee - of another girl I used to know very well indeed. :o

    You've described 13-year-old me (apart from the not showering bit - I was the opposite, used to hijack the bathroom for ages). And lots of teens. I was an asshole and regularly apologise to my parents now. They laugh and say it was just typical moody teen carry-on, but it was still hard for them. And at one stage my mother did let it slip that she was at her wits' end worrying about me.

    It was definitely just adolescence - and it passed. Does she have any interests besides rubbish tv?


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    #39
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    Tell me how wrote: »
    That's a completely misleading opinion in my view.

    The OP is struggling to make things better for her and her daughter but to suggest that she requires depression medication is baseless.

    Sorry, but as the child of a depressed mother, I have to agree. The entire OP is going on about this child as if she were an adult, as if they are equals. They're not. OP is taking it all very personally, when really it seems like the girl is either being stroppy and moody or has some real depression issues.

    Sorry, but you don't just stop doing a child's washing and let her go out in dirty clothes because you didn't like the way she spoke to you. You just CANNOT do that to children. It is literally OP's job to feed, clothe and care for her child. That is not conditional in the child behaving the way she wants her to. The kid threw her laundry on the back of a chair (absolutely normal, if lazy) and OP's response is to stop doing her washing to teach her a lesson? This isn't an 18-year-old college student. We're talking about a dependent child.


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    #40
    Ruby31
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭Ruby31


    Thanks again everyone. I'm reading all the replies and I really appreciate the time people are taking to respond. I have to go and collect my youngest now, but will be checking in again tonight.


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    #41
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    What negative consequences are in place for when she roars abuse at you, fails to be up, showered and dressed by a certain time or tries to hog the tv?

    I'd start there and wouldn't make a song and dance over it. That phone would be removed for a start. She's plenty old enough to do a few chores around the house now as a matter of course : loading and emptying dishwasher, pegging out clothes and folding them when dry, hoovering the common areas. All of these things were a matter of course growing up for those of us over 40. They teach basic life skills and responsibilities and give a sense of contributing to the family and an appreciation for the people who do it day in day out for us from when we're born. Plenty of praise for a job well done and reinstate privileges when she shows she can do those BASIC ( and they are very, very basic) chores without giving abuse or being nagged. Phone, TV, pocket money aren't rights. She must earn and appreciate them and verbally abusing her parents should bring a major consequence IMO.


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    #42
    Wabbit Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 3,042 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    lainey_d_123 wrote:
    Sorry, but you don't just stop doing a child's washing and let her go out in dirty clothes because you didn't like the way she spoke to you. You just CANNOT do that to children. It is literally OP's job to feed, clothe and care for her child. That is not conditional in the child behaving the way she wants her to. The kid threw her laundry on the back of a chair (absolutely normal, if lazy) and OP's response is to stop doing her washing to teach her a lesson? This isn't an 18-year-old college student. We're talking about a dependent child.


    This. OP reread this over and over and over.


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    #43
    ChippingSodbury
    Registered Users Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭ChippingSodbury


    If it's Sky TV you have, just take out the card: it happens in my house on an odd occasion (just don;t forget where you put it!!)

    On the phone, my child has an Android phone and I have Google Family Link installed on it which gives you control over the phone. It's a free app, just be careful that you put in the "correct" (!!) date of birth: it only works until the child is 13 years old. It can be used to set start/ finish times, total daily time, approval of any app before installation etc.

    Another thing I've noticed is that shouting matches don't generally work. Try and walk away, take a few minutes and come back when you're slightly calmer, pick a punishment and follow through on it. Often times, a punishment is chosen in the heat of the moment which either can't be done or is too harsh. If it isn't implemented, not only is no lesson learned but it sets a trend in the child's mind that "I can get away with this behaviour". A rewards system can be handy too, punishment can often then be removal of rewards e.g. tv, phone, bedtime etc.

    Stick with it, it sounds like you're trying to do the right things but as stated above, if you pick a punishment/ sanction, it must be followed through so choose wisely and be fair.


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    #44
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,512 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    A lot of signs of depression there. She needs to give see a doctor.


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    #45
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    I see absolutely no reason why any child especially at 12 can't do house work or anything to help.

    Yes they're kids but I was helping out my grandad and done housework and jobs such as painting etc and done work on his farm also.

    It was nice having things to keep mind active.

    Obviously no kid wants to clean up etc but it's only way to learn so get cracking.


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    #46
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Tell me how wrote: »
    That's a completely misleading opinion in my view.

    The OP is struggling to make things better for her and her daughter but to suggest that she requires depression medication is baseless.

    Sorry, but as the child of a depressed mother, I have to agree. The entire OP is going on about this child as if she were an adult, as if they are equals. They're not. OP is taking it all very personally, when really it seems like the girl is either being stroppy and moody or has some real depression issues.

    Sorry, but you don't just stop doing a child's washing and let her go out in dirty clothes because you didn't like the way she spoke to you. You just CANNOT do that to children. It is literally OP's job to feed, clothe and care for her child. That is not conditional in the child behaving the way she wants her to. The kid threw her laundry on the back of a chair (absolutely normal, if lazy) and OP's response is to stop doing her washing to teach her a lesson? This isn't an 18-year-old college student. We're talking about a dependent child.
    That's not why she stopped doing her washing. Clean clothes ready to be put away just dropped in a heap on the floor and her mother expected to sift through the clothes on the floor for the dirty ones. Read the woman's replies. And the girl is 12, not 6. I wouldn't be doing that either. If she wants her clothes washed she can put the dirty ones in the laundry basket and hang the clean, ironed clothes up. While I wouldn't leave her wash her own clothes unsupervised, I'd certainly be getting her involved in the laundry process and the consequence for not putting her dirty clothes in the basket and letting her clean ones lie crumpled on the floor would be no washing done til this was rectified. It's also the OP'S job to teach responsibility to her children. Leaving it til she's 18 is too late.


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    #47
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    eagle eye wrote: »
    A lot of signs of depression there. She needs to give see a doctor.
    She's been taken to a doctor. She's vegging out cos it's the school holidays. Has anyone bothered to read the OP'S replies?


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    #48
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    eagle eye wrote: »
    A lot of signs of depression there. She needs to give see a doctor.

    She's a 12 year old. Yes, maybe she has depression but also, maybe she is starting to be a stroppy teenager (most of us were at some point).

    If (and I'm saying 'If') she was led to believe she has depression when she doesn't, she may use that as an excuse for her bad behaviour.

    We can't blame Dr's for the rising amounts of anti-depressants being prescribed if people are walking in the door and saying that they need them too quickly.

    I agreed with Susie Blue point previously of having a 3 way conversation with the girl and the OP's husband and then deciding next steps.

    If necessary after the chat, I would bring her to a GP and let them diagnose but I'm pretty sure none of us can diagnose depression for either daughter or mother based on what we have been told.


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    #49
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Wabbit Ears wrote: »
    This. OP reread this over and over and over.

    Why. Why why why why.....

    Nothing wrong with a child taking a little bit of responsibility and this is great to teach them how to actually get on in life.

    Jaysus I could do the washing well before 12.

    Thing is I wouldn't trust my daughter as she could put anything in the machine and I mean anything.


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    #50
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Why. Why why why why.....

    Nothing wrong with a child taking a little bit of responsibility and this is great to teach them how to actually get on in life.

    Jaysus I could do the washing well before 12.

    Thing is I wouldn't trust my daughter as she could put anything in the machine and I mean anything.

    Because it's not right. You cannot take away care from a child because you don't like their behaviour. Sweets? Fine. Treats? Fine. TV? Fine. You do not stop washing their clothes because they mix up clean and dirty ones. Teaching a child to be self sufficient and do their own chores is healthy. This kind of mind games and punishment is not.


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    #51
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Because it's not right. You cannot take away care from a child because you don't like their behaviour. Sweets? Fine. Treats? Fine. TV? Fine. You do not stop washing their clothes because they mix up clean and dirty ones. Teaching a child to be self sufficient and do their own chores is healthy. This kind of mind games and punishment is not.

    But she isn't doing anything so the parents need to find a way to get her to.
    It was worth a try now a different approach is needed.

    We all learn along the way.

    What would be best is enter room and assist in the clothes and talk her through it. Keep at it and keep calm.


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    #52
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Why. Why why why why.....

    Nothing wrong with a child taking a little bit of responsibility and this is great to teach them how to actually get on in life.

    Jaysus I could do the washing well before 12.

    Thing is I wouldn't trust my daughter as she could put anything in the machine and I mean anything.

    Because it's not right. You cannot take away care from a child because you don't like their behaviour. Sweets? Fine. Treats? Fine. TV? Fine. You do not stop washing their clothes because they mix up clean and dirty ones. Teaching a child to be self sufficient and do their own chores is healthy. This kind of mind games and punishment is not.
    How would you rectify a child dumping all their clothes, including the ones you've taken the time to carefully launder, into a heap of dirty, smelly clothes and then demand that you get down on your hands and knees and sort the dirty from the clean and supply fresh ones? 'That's alright dear, it's my job to take this abuse. My function is to be your slave.'
    I was doing laundry at 12, and not with a handy little automatic machine either but a beast of a top loader that wasn't plumbed up. Washing involved giant washing tongs to haul wet clothes out and heavy buckets of wet clothes waiting to be put back in the machine for spinning. Now all that needs to be done is open a door, place the clothes, detergent and softener in the appropriate places and press a button. Hardly child labour.This child is choosing to have dirty clothes by refusing to take care of them in the most basic way ( hanging up the clean ones, placing the dirty ones in the laundry bascket ) It is not abusive to expect a 12 year old to do this. To reinforce her appalling attitude to her mother would be abusive, though. Allowing someone to glide through life believing they have a personal slave to verbally abuse is how to create a monster.


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    #53
    maccydoodies
    Registered Users Posts: 368 ✭✭maccydoodies


    I've been through similar circumstances insofar as stroppy teenager who wont look after themselves, cheek, etc etc. And my best honest advice is to look at how you are reacting and handling the situation. Not saying you are wrong but there are things you can look at. Did you ever hear of the saying 'pick your battles'? It is one of the best pieces of advice I have been given in regards to managing your teens. I have one 20yo and 1 17yo and I'm still learning. Is it worth fighting over the pig sty of a room? You don't have to look at it, just close the door.

    What is worrying is the seemingly lack of respect towards you and the family. We have try to set down to 1 simple rule in our house and that is respect. All the other rules are built around that.

    Also when setting rules its useful to set out why the rule is in place and what the consequences are if the rule is broken. That way before they even set a foot wrong they know whats going to happen which may make them think.

    The teenage brain has not yet fully developed and they have not learned the concept of consequences which can make them act unreasonably.

    I hope I have offered you some solace in that you are not alone in this battle with the teen.


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    #54
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    How would you rectify a child dumping all their clothes, including the ones you've taken the time to carefully launder, into a heap of dirty, smelly clothes and then demand that you get down on your hands and knees and sort the dirty from the clean and supply fresh ones? 'That's alright dear, it's my job to take this abuse. My function is to be your slave.'
    I was doing laundry at 12, and not with a handy little automatic machine either but a beast of a top loader that wasn't plumbed up. Washing involved giant washing tongs to haul wet clothes out and heavy buckets of wet clothes waiting to be put back in the machine for spinning. Now all that needs to be done is open a door, place the clothes, detergent and softener in the appropriate places and press a button. Hardly child labour.This child is choosing to have dirty clothes by refusing to take care of them in the most basic way ( hanging up the clean ones, placing the dirty ones in the laundry bascket ) It is not abusive to expect a 12 year old to do this. To reinforce her appalling attitude to her mother would be abusive, though. Allowing someone to glide through life believing they have a personal slave to verbally abuse is how to create a monster.

    She doesn't have to sort through them, but that's different to refusing to wash them. Did you grow up with a depressed parent or one with issues? There's quite a subtext here which is very familiar to me, and the reason I'm taking this angle.


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    #55
    ct5amr2ig1nfhp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    That is exactly what I said. The OP should let her walk around in dirty clothes. Don't be so silly.

    One of the many responsibilities of a parent is to teach their children how to grow be a functioning adult. Not mollycoddled until it is too late. I know 30 year olds you cannot use a washing machine and others who cannot boil an egg FFS.
    A lot of children leave home to go off to college from as young as 16/17. They need to be thought how to look after themselves. It's not long before a 12 year old suddenly of college age. Time passes by so quickly. Those life skills, as simple as washing, are not thought overnight.

    Please do enlighten us as to when you feel it's time to teach these sort of life lessons to our children?

    Teenagers in Europe are allowed drink alcohol from 16. Girls can get married from 14 in some EU countries. Imagine being able to drink alcohol or get married and not being able to put on a wash? :rolleyes:
    devlinio wrote: »
    So if she doesn't wash her clothes, she should have dirty clothes? I don't think so. At 12, it's her parent's responsibility. If they help, that's fantastic. But if they don't, you don't leave them to their own devices.


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    #56
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    ^^^^^

    There's a very wide margin between knowing how to put on a wash, helping out as part of growing number of chores and having to wear dirty clothes because none of yours are washed.

    Chores = Good
    Total responsibility = Too Much


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    #57
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Yes, I did as a matter of fact. I was neglect ed by my mother. Hence the giant top loading washer that she refused to have plumbed up, or even an automatic machine, like everyone else and the need to spend two days washing clothes once a month, if I was lucky.
    There is no sub text here. How can the OP wash the clothes if they're not sorted, eh? The child is throwing all her clothes on the floor. It is certainly not her mother's responsibility to get down on the floor to sort them. If the child won't sort them herself she'll have to suffer the consequences. This is not a mother neglecting her child. It's a mother at her wits end and trying to get her child to behave respectfully and as responsibly as is age appropriate. She has another child whose well being is affected by her daughter's behaviour. You seem to think expecting a 12 year old to pick up her own clothes and put them in a washing machine is abusive. What do you suggest? That her mother buys her clothes to replace the dirty ones on the floor? What, exactly would you do under these circumstances to teach the 12 year old to respect her things and appreciate the work that goes into maintaining them and some simple, but essential life skills?


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    #58
    ct5amr2ig1nfhp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    Ah come off it. I doubt any parent would give total responsibility to a 12 year old. That could be seen as abusive, however it is up the parent. Children are all different. I certainly have not said she should wear dirty clothes.

    There is a balance between taking care of your children and teaching them necessary lessons. At 12, I would expect children to be well on their way to knowing how to care for themselves, or at least have started that journey. If my child told me it was 'my job' to wash her clothes, you'd be damn sure there would be consequences. Bye bye phone for a start.


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    #59
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    OP . I had three kids who thankfully are all lovely , kind , hard working , responsible adults
    We were not perfect , we struggled through the teens and managed to come out of those years all intact

    I will say that 10 -12 they are still young children , they are not teens and despite what they think they still need love and support and to feel safe

    Choose your battles wisely and advice I got I found good " Only insist on your way if it a) harms them or b) harms another person . In other words if a teenager wants blue hair then its not harming them or anyone else so let them choose

    Back to your girl she sounds angry and hurt and is lashing out . Love her , cuddle her , treat her . Take her out on her own without her sibling . Give her your time , it's precious to her
    Guide her and put a small funky wash basket in her room so she can just drop her knickers in there easily .
    But mostly show her that despite how much she rants or shouts or is acting like s brat you will always love her and have her back

    From your post it sounds like you don't even like your girl and if we read that from your post then she too will know it
    Turn this around before she hits her teens or you will struggle to connect with her . Talk to her , love her and show her you are her mammy and in charge


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    #60
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,893 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Jeez.
    How many of you really remember being teens?
    OP my immediate reaction was this - if this is how you are acting when she's 12 over minor household things, what on earth are you going to do when she hits 16?? Is she even in secondary school yet?? There's no harm involving her in laundry and all that stuff, but that's not really the problem, is it?



    As the last poster says, pick your rows. Let her room be a tip. Seriously - close the door on it.What does it matter to you? As for clothes, I'd be taking the approach of if it's in the basket, I'll wash it - otherwise it won't be washed. I won't be sifting for clean or dirty clothes, that's your responsibility if you want clean things to wear.She's certainly old enough to get her clothes into a basket.Step back and let her own the process a bit and realise that she has to meet you half way.


    Definitely open those lines of communication. Turn off the TV. Why does she have to leave the living room for you to turn off the TV? Once more, what does it matter? Turn it off, take away the remote or card or whatever, but don't get hung up on making her leave the room. She's shouting at you because that's what teens do.It doesn't make it right, but try to stop taking it personally and stick to your guns.


    She's only 12 - there's a long way to go yet.....


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    #61
    Pretzill
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭Pretzill


    By the gist of this thread there's an awful lot of spoiled teenagers - I really don't think you're doing anything wrong OP, this is puberty at it's best (or worst) and it starts way before the cycle does - she's going through a tumultuous time - you need to have patience with her. Include her. Love her. But always expect the unexpected and I would curtail her screen time


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