Falling apart gives you a reason to build something new.

Wed
AM Yoga + 7 miles easy (7.54 min/m)
PM 4 miles easy (8.20 min/m)
Daily Challenge: Upper body Resistance band work

Followed this up with 10 min core circuit and foam rolling

A day for a bit of pampering as there were a few grumblings from the body, left hip flexor giving out a little as well as right tibialis posterior (two area's which generally push back a little when ramp things up. Kept the 7 miler handy on the grass which seemed to do the trick for the hip flexor and bit of work in the evening on the plantar and tib pos seems to gave me all good today. To be expected somewhat as I have averaged 12.5 miles a day last 5 days and aim to plough on with that. Always good to have a patient in the house to keep the therapy skills sharp :P

The longer this build up continues the clearer my long term approach is becoming and they more I see a need to really build back up my base so I will probably be in base phase for the next 2-3 months before hopefully really getting stuck into making big breakthrough over 10k (hopefully something like Seeley Cup might get the nod by the end of the year)

shotgunmcos wrote: »

QQ since you are averaging 12m a day

Ive been hitting 10-12 miles a day quite often - base phase. 70m over 6 days etc but all just on 1 run per day so 60+% of my runs are 80+ mins. At what point to you think thats counter productive and might be better to split some days to doubles? Like, easy days are easy but often 90mins

Good question. Personally I think it depends on your goal and your own background

For me I am aiming for 10k so I 50/40 min split double or runs of similar length is generally fine.

For a marathon runner I would probably have one main run of the day with a supplementary. For these maybe 65-80 min/30-40 min

Ultra running (take Ed for example) and would be running on singles.

It can be modulated based on training though to minimize injury risk

For example

Mon (Shorter single to recover from long run effort
Tuesday - Session (perhaps a short recovery double to add volume)
Wednesday - Longer Single so working on tired legs from session for endurance
Thursday - Double to freshen up for session
Friday -Session (perhaps a short recovery double to add volume)
Saturday - Shorter Single to recovery for long run
Sunday - Long run

If you took 8 min as easy pace there for example would break down mileage as such
M- 7-8
T - 8-9 (+4)
W - 10-11
T - 6+6
F - 8-9 (+4)
S - 7-8
Sun - 16-20

This would give you a range from 70+ mpw up while still allowing you to recover for sessions and not end up with biomechanical issues due to running excessively on tired legs.

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Thanks KSU - food for thought

Not wanting to take up too much of your log. To do the recovery supplementary on session days, the sessions would have to be early morning --- ugh but so is life :rolleyes:

Last question

Interesting 2 days between session so 1 day easy before LR. Is this a 10k pattern to prioritize energy for 10k focused sessions, the LR being capped and base endurance oriented?

Vs Marathon pattern the LR with work stuff taking precedence and perhaps needing the extra recovery of 2 days after the session. Just thinking back to my last cycle (Hansons) carrying enough cumulative fatigue into the LR and having 2 easy days between it and the last session. Granted the day off was between sessions on a thurs to tues pattern.

Not at all happy to have engagement on the log (rather than spouting unsolicited musings elsewhere haha)

In terms of the session supplementary runs there are those who use these sort of runs the morning of sessions to stimulate HGH secretion for later sessions getting more of an uptake during the session (haven't delved into this science too much personally)

Regarding pattern it more just stems from a historical programming of sessions from the club system (both here and the likes of UK/US)

Generally faster sessions programmed for a Tuesday while fresh and strength sessions later in the week so makes sense to stack the a little with the long run for a cumulative fatigue aspect going into the long run. This is with the idea of the Long run not being the priority session of the week (i.e easy/moderate pace)

With marathon training though personally I like to change the format to a 2 session week including long run (Wed-Sat/Sun) both are long sessions though (15-20). This is only during the specific phase though (last 10 weeks of training including taper) Generally use the 10k style format in the fundamental stage of training (i.e 1st 10 weeks of say a 20 week build up)

In general I tend to cap the run in around 20 because personally I feel 2hr - 2hr 20 is the sweet spot with regard aerobic benefits and biomechanical fatigue endurance. I think intensity needs to be looked at rather than volume beyond that as I think you get more bang for your buck and less injury risk running say 2 hrs steady/progressive over 2hr40 easy. This is more based on my coaching experience.

Very rarely would I program anything longer than 2hr 20 and if I did it would be more a session focused on psychology of the athlete rather than physiology (i.e someone getting really nervous about not having time on feet as a reassurance session)

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Session tomorrow so might do a 30min supplement later. Def going to break one of the easy 12m run in 2 if schedule/life allows.

This is the other aspect of it. Training puts enough stress on the body without the stress of having to plan the training. Sometimes making it fit your schedule is just as important. Currently my format is based on getting out on my lunch break which means 50-55 min max. Those days I get that and a short one after work and still in bed for decent rest, others its a longer one after work but unsustainable for me when the little lad has me up at 5-6 most mornings.

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Can't over estimate this factor with smallies. They dictate almost every facet your circadian rhythm :rolleyes: but they also make you laugh/love until your heart melts away that stress. Who'd have em?!

This was exactly what sparked the question. I found doing 1 run a day and trying to build volume that its either very early morning or late evening. I dont have the lunch run option most days WFH. Its often tough to get out of the bed at 5am to have 30 mins to wake up, activate and then get 12m done before 8 so she can get ready for work. Unless you go to bed so early you don't get time together. However, I find facing 90mins run at 8-9pm a real challenge. The brain is usually drained balancing kids and work pressure the whole day and the body is unwilling. You flick the devil off your shoulders and get drawn out the door by the setting sun.
Like Superman crawling out of a bath of kryptonite you feel the last of its warmth energise you and it ends up being a good run.

The problem then is you are showering, eating at 11pm and are wide awake. The probability of getting up 7 hours later to run again are greatly diminished, particularly as your body is now digesting a meal while you sleep instead of repairing precious fibres.

To your point of splitting that same run, I'd get a little more sleep in the morning and bed a little earlier in the evening.. the little things we must do to find balance.

Better man than me in the morning's. Personally I just don't feel like I can wake up enough for a run without either 90 min or a bit of yoga (which is why opt for that)

Lucky enough at the moment where my shift only has a small overlap with herself meaning that my lunch doesn't come around till she finishes work. Given I keep him occupied from the time he gets up (anytime between 4-6am) and the time he goes down for his nap (about 1pm coinciding with the start of my work day) I tend to find the lunch break when I get it is well earned and I am not missed for the hour around the house.

The late runs then when everyone is in bed just stems from the nature of my work. When I started with the company my shift was 5.30pm-1.30 am and have been slowly working back form there so late nights never an issue and I am a good sleeper meaning when I get the opportunity to sleep I do (doesn't take me a huge amount to unwind in evenings as the runs do that for me to be honest)

This probably influences my belief about easy run paces being so conservative as my recovery facility is seriously inhibited with the lack of sleep as 7 hours for me would be ambitious since he was born

Thurs
AM Yoga
PM 10km tempo - 40.18 (6.29 min/m)
Daily Challenge: N/A

Seems to be something in the water with Healy1835 as the little lad woke up at 4am in foul humour and didn’t let up all day. Was so drained between that and work that I decided to change the route for this one to the most generous loop I could. Thankfully once he went down at 7 I got a bit of a new lease of life so went back to the original “honest” loop I had picked out

Set the watch up for 10x1k no recovery, it felt wrong and dirty but for this session the aim was in around 40-41 min so it made things easy as the loop I was doing basically nullified the use of pace on the watch so it was strictly done by effort. It was 3 laps with each lap having a roughly 800m incline to keep me honest

This was roughly marathon effort which was perfect as the pace was handy enough to not send me over the edge on the hills but got a good leg workout from it and was working hard enough to get good stimulus from it

Mon
AM Yoga + 4 miles easy (7.56 min/m)
PM 6 miles easy (8.08 min/m)
Daily Challenge: Lower body conditioning work

Followed this up with 10 min core

Tired...

Pretty much sums up the day. made the mistake of waking little lad after the long run so bad night sleep on couch with himself. Despite being in absolutely no mood managed to get everything in today so a mental triumph if nothing else.

Ancillary work slipped a little last week so gonna start logging work time just to remind myself to keep it honest (idea stolen from shotgunmcos)

Weekly Totals
Core|10 min
Yoga|10 min|
S&C|30 min

Wed
AM Yoga + 6 miles easy (7.41 min/m)
PM 3 mile very easy (8.15 min/m)
Daily Challenge: Foam Rolling

Body in a jock the cumulative affect definitely taking its toll. A little light headed on evening run I think mixture of tiredness and that but eating rings around me. Everything pointed to this day being needed

Thurs
AM Yoga
PM 9 miles including 5x20 sec strides
Daily Challenge: Plyo session

Definite improvement though still needed this one to be fairly easy as legs were like lead. Wind was rough enough so possibly contributed to things but I felt any slight change in effort saw paces fall off a cliff so ran very tentatively effort wise.

Pulled the plyo's after first few exercises as I knew tonight legs just needed the extra day.

Ancillary totals

|Mon|Tues|Wed|Thurs|Total
Core|10 min|10 min|||20 min
Yoga|10 min|10 min|10min|10min|40 min
S&C|30 min|25 min|||55 min
Foam Rolling|||20 min||20 min
Plyos||||5 min|5min

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Interesting on the light headedness..

Is it Kcal deficit? Dehydration? Sleepy?

I had simlar half way through a short run yesterday evening. Legs were coming around but general energy low. Heart rate higher etc. Had run in the morning and on my own working with the kids during the day. It all takes its toll...

Put it down to tiredness to be honest but probably a combination of the three the few hard days definitely had me eating rings around me. The evening runs had been slipping later and later and bed times pushed just needed a bit of discipline to get back on track for a bit of extra sleep.

Power nap and actually getting out for run early today as well as the two easy days have me back to normal

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Maybe you’ve outgrown those running leggings and they’re dripping blood circulation

TbL

Have been forced to retire them recently, quads bigger, gut smaller could lead to them sitting awkwardly in the eyes of the law on a late night run

Sat
AM Yoga
PM 7.7 miles (7.50 min/m)
Daily Challenge: Plyo circuits (6x30 on/30 off)

Followed up with a core circuit (10 min of 1 min on 30 sec off)

Body definitely over the midweek dip thankfully meaning back on the ancillary train. The run itself was handy. which coming up on a 70 mpw and 3rd week on week increase bodes well.

|Mon|Tues|Wed|Thurs|Fri|Sat|Total
Core|10 min|10 min||||10 min|30 min
Yoga|10 min|10 min|10min|10min||10 min|60 min
S&C|30 min|25 min|||||55 min
Foam Rolling|||20 min||||20 min
Plyos||||5 min||15 min|20 min

Tues
AM Yoga + 7 miles easy (7.38 min/m)
PM 4 miles easy (8.00 min/m)
Daily Challenge: Foam Rolling

Followed up with a core circuit

More of the same today just getting he bread and butter stuff done. Terrible night sleep as the little lad decided 4am was as good a time as any for Paw Patrol (literally his first words when he wakes most mornings)

Legs were glad of a bit of TLC with foam rolling in the evening and a bit of downtime

|Mon|Tues|Total
Core|10 min|10 min|20 min
Yoga|10 min|10 min|20 min
S&C|30 min||30 min
Foam Rolling||30 min|30 min
Plyos||

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Do you do that sequence of poses as a sun salutation sequence or hold each pose? Not sure where you got the idea from my log I just post how much time I spent on the mat at the end of each week. A table might hold me more accountable to doing it more regularly though.

They would be done in a sun salutation sequence. Not a big fan of long holds for any sort of stretching to be honest (15 sec tops for less developmental stretching)

It was your total time spent that resonated with me. Expanding it to table was done to a)show consistency rather than lumping all in one day and b) highlight the benefits of micro-habits by showing the cumulative affect of taking 5-10 min here and there in a day.

I have completely falling back down the hole of self development since lockdown as such between training theory, sports science and injury webinars, coaching zooms and psychology/business development so trying to take on board as much as I can an implement small tweaks to ensure that the progress made during this time isn't undone when "normal life" resumes

Thurs
AM Yoga
PM 9.5 miles easy (7.55 min/m)
Daily Challenge: Foam Rolling

Fatigue subsiding a little this week cumulatively so felt generally good for this one. Bit longer than planned as misjudged route but hit every climb in the vicinity. Not dialing back training for the TT but still should be relatively fresh.


|Mon|Tues|Wed|Thurs|Total
Core|10 min|10 min|||20 min
Yoga|10 min|10 min|10 min|10 min|40 min
S&C|30 min||20 min||50 min
Foam Rolling||30 min||20 min|50 min
Plyos||||

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

You've robbed yourself of 10mins yoga in your total

The tables seemed like such a good idea especially at the start of each week

Fri
AM Yoga
PM 5.9 miles miles easy (7.58 min/m)
Daily Challenge: N/A

Coming off a slightly longer stretch in work was feeling it a bit as was fairly sleepy going out for this one. Had in my head the mental tooing and frowing of not pulling back training for the TT while at the same time keeping the consistency of base. In the end came to a decent compromise which was cut little bit short on the last stride due to an erratic delivery driver trying to take me out.

Sat
AM Yoga
PM 1 mile TT* - 4.56 Followed by 4x1 mile MP (90 sec)
Daily Challenge: N/A

Despite being off had a few commitments today so i knew this was gonna be a late one. Despite the weather improving as it got later the compromise was motivation and dread built up (maybe it was seeing some lightning fast times and starting to think should have eased up during the week for this )

Loop I chose was slightly different to my usual one. After the delivery driver incident the night before I decided to cut out the side of the estate that is the main way in and out from local chipper. Hip flexor grumbling a little in warm up (has been making a little noise the last few days tbh, nothing dramatic or too worrying but enough to be noticeable. Hoped mile would,'t tweak it.

For the last TT I set the watch up for 5k with a workout of 5x1k no warm up or cooldown and no recoveries I figured its best way to no be faffing about with watch at the end and can "run through the line" Did the same for this one 4x400m making the crucial mistake you make when you embrace the fecking metric system, it ruins lives :P

Got out fast enough with a small decline in the 1st 200m. Kept saying to myself stay relaxed for the first half. Given I have only been doing base and strides I knew body wouldn't come back anaerobically from too aggressive a start. 71 for 400 and then made the mistake of continuing to remain too relaxed. Looking back I made up the small elevation that had dropped in first 200 but realistically the pace wasn't a result of that loop itself is as pancake flat as you could make. I simply stayed too relaxed and and controlled and the pace showed as came through in 78, way too slow for such a short distance. I knew I had to get the finger out.

Came through around the 1k mark and knew that despite breathing hard I was not swimming in the lactate I should be legs opened up a bit and moving well and feeling relatively good. 74 for the proverbial 3rd lap a position I would relish to be in on the track in a mile/1500 race.

Emptied the tank in the closing stages but to be honest was all left a bit too late, closed in 72 and looking back on the watch I saw 4.56 however dawned on me then my lacking arithmetic skills. Watch was saying 4.59 pace adjusted but I was kicking myself. We live and learn :rolleyes:

straight into a recovery mile jog and a light session just to round off the day 4x1 mile @ MP effort. Recovered quickly from the time trial and tipped along with this cruising not pushing too heavy.

Happy with the overall effort for the day.



|Mon|Tues|Wed|Thurs|Fri|Sat|Total
Core|10 min|10 min|||||20 min
Yoga|10 min|10 min|10 min|10 min|10 min|10 min|50 min
S&C|30 min||20 min|||50 min
Foam Rolling||30 min||20 min|||50 min
Plyos||||||

2 months is a long time.:o:o:o

Bit of a setback in June. At first put it down to stress and trying to pick up the slack at home with OH energy levels being low due to first Trimester. I was finishing work most days practically falling asleep so just put it down to burning the candle at both ends. It was only after putting two and two together that I started to suspect something else.

In the past I have complained about suspected allergies due to pollen. It tends to be quite insidious and usually only every suspected after the fact. This time was nothing new. Herself had a floral subscription (absolute notions getting flowers delivered on a monthly basis making a man have to actually use the aul noggin for presents around occasion time) It was only after I binned a dying bouquet and the energy/ motivation was sky high again less than 24 hrs later that I started to suspect this was the culprit. So lesson learned currently on anti histamine with a bouquet in the house so will see how the coming days/week go.

As a result of the above June was not pretty sporadic running one or two small sessions but ultimately just blah. July and got back into the swing of things

Mileage progression was solid; 32, 45, 51, 68

Sessions and went back to building

Week 1 - 10k Tempo (6.54 min/m)

Week 2 - 8x1km @ LT (90) - (4.00/6.30 pace average)
- 9km Tempo (6.33 min/m)

Week 3 - 5x1 mile LT (2.30) - 6.26, 6.18, 6.22, 6.21, 6.16
- 10km Tempo (6.43 min/m)

Week 4 - 15 w/ 12 Alternating (6.45/7.30)
- 4x8 min LT (3 min) - 6.27, 6.21, 6.21, 6.18,
- 5 mile Threshold (Grass) - 6.28 min/m)

The aim going forward now is cross country for few reasons

1) No need to talk about shoes
2) Will allow me to get strong, focus on effort and forget about paces for 4 months
3) There is a race I have unfinished business with
4) Target race 3 weeks before new baby due so should be able to just tip along with easy mileage for 6-8 weeks around that and then hopefully this time around be better managed coming out the other end ready to train again

I have made a few changes as well to approach to slot in with group training for a while. 5 mile threshold was great to have RayCun and a group to run with for even 1 or two sessions a week I am hoping will allow me to be more consistent and structured at the weekends so I am not having to dig in for self motivation for every session. I am hoping this will help me achieve the consistency I want.

Little lad has also returned to creche so free's up the mornings for training before work which should help some as well

Sacksian wrote: »

Congrats on the new arrival, Luke!

That sounds like a really good plan for the next few months. I was struggling with motivation last year and found it really useful just to be able to turn up to a club session once a week (just made that my quality session and didn't worry too much about what else I did that week).

It took all the stress out of planning training and added a really positive mental element: the social bit of training in a group. The bit of competition during training was enjoyable too.

And there's some great runners to work off in that group you were training with.

What's the target race?!

I'll see you at a couple of xc races this winter (if they happen!)...

That's my thinking exactly tried to do the solo heavy lifting for far too long and just hasn't been working for consistency the last 18 months so willing to change it up and hope it pay's dividends. Have to say was enjoyable one even with the group being smaller than they usually have.

Target for me has to be intermediates never managed better than 11th so hopefully can improve on that.

Probably gonna have to have a late start to season as won't be able to do Novice.

OOnegative wrote: »

How much the Brother’s pay??????

Ed Woodward negotiating the deal which means prob won't be finalised before 2030