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Micro(?) wind turbine available - general advice please

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    #32
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,866 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Should be more popular now that it looks like feed in tariffs are actually on the way.


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    #33
    TheWonderLlama
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭TheWonderLlama


    I have been thinking about this and possibly utilising a hydraulic extendable mast. During day time, mast is low, turbine hidden from view behind house.
    At night time, mast is extended, turbine grabs more air, charges batteries,etc, nobody can see it.

    Has anyone seen this type of system? Or am i just nuts?


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    #34
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    You're nuts :p

    Anyway having a wind turbine up to a certain height (can't remember, maybe 6m?) is perfectly legal and does not require planning permission. As long as it is on your own land and if it should fall in any direction, it will have to fall within your property. This is from memory.


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    #35
    TheWonderLlama
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭TheWonderLlama


    yeah, I have been looking at the planning exemptions alright, from the SEAI site:
    Turbine must not be attached to a building.
    One turbine per house and it can not be sited in front of the building.
    Total height must not exceed 13m.
    Rotor diameter must not exceed 6m.
    3m minimum clearance between ground and lowest point of blades.
    Turbine mast must be the total maximum height of the assembly including turbine and blades plus one metre from the nearest party boundary.
    Noise levels must not exceed 43db(A) or 5 db(A) above background noise at the nearest inhabited neighbouring dwelling.
    No advertising can be placed on the turbine and the turbine must be matt finished.
    The blades must not interfere with telecoms signals.

    So if you have a ten metre mast with a turbine with 1m blades, then you have to have it at least 12m away from all boundaries. 10m might be high enough in any event.

    I think the distance from boundary wall will catch me which is why I was thinking of the extendable thing. But i suppose if anything happened while it was extended i'd be in deep doo-doo.


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    #36
    ToxicPaddy
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,764 Mod ✭✭✭✭ToxicPaddy


    I've been reading up on these, but they seem more suited for houses in rural settings.

    Could one of these been installed for a house in an urban setting with a small garden?


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    #37
    TheWonderLlama
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭TheWonderLlama


    I wouldn't have thought you'd get away with the distance requirements as listed above. Absolute minimum would be 5m radius all around the turbine.

    (minimum height 3m, turbine blade 1m +1m)


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    #38
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    ToxicPaddy wrote: »
    Could one of these been installed for a house in an urban setting with a small garden?

    Sure, won't generate any useful electricity though. Been there, done that. 6m pole, unobstructed incoming south westerlies from an area of mostly just fields and no buildings. Very little joy.


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    #39
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Could you hook up a few old storage heater ( might take a bit of looking about but they should be cheap or free ) to the turbine / panels , and try getting a really big hot water tank too ... The best place to dump electricity is into heat .,and both storage heaters and a big water tank will help balance out the peaks and troughs of power generation.... I assume during summer will be your biggest demand for hot water ,and the shoulders of the year your biggest demand for heating and hot water ..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #40
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Unless you live in a one off house on top of a hill in a very windy area, forget about wind. Concentrate on solar.


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    #41
    idc
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭idc


    unkel wrote: »
    Sure, won't generate any useful electricity though. Been there, done that. 6m pole, unobstructed incoming south westerlies from an area of mostly just fields and no buildings. Very little joy.

    How many watts did it generate at low speed? I'd still consider getting turbine if at low speed it produced 100-200 watts to cover base load. Maybe what i want is unrealistic though!!!!


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    #42
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    It's unrealistic. You get almost nothing in an urban setting, unless the wind strength is just right (strong steady wind, but not a storm). Even at that, perfect conditions that you will rarely see, maybe a few hours a month, you won't even see the rated power output. Honestly take my word for it, don't do it. Go solar.


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    #43
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users Posts: 12,197 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    unkel wrote: »
    Unless you live in a one off house on top of a hill in a very windy area

    I'm not far off that description...


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    #44
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Attached is a pic from on top of a roof about 7-8 m high.

    A turbine here might just be viable in this scenario, but compared to solar, and the payback of that, its no competition. - Id be better off sticking more solar on the roof.


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    #45
    mr chips
    Registered Users Posts: 608 ✭✭✭mr chips


    Have to agree - as the OP, the only reason I was even considering this was because the turbine will be coming to me as a gift, whenever I can consider doing a long distance trip to actually get the thing. Even then, while I live in a rural setting and can potentially place the turbine at the top of a slope, it might still be more trouble than it's worth as it will be difficult to find the space for it in the campsite. I'd far rather just have a battery and one or two more pairs of panels. I'm actually toying with a plan B involving donating it to a friend who lives in a similar setting in NI, only with double the space which (unlike mine) is not set to be used or occupied at all, and then just splitting any FIT proceeds between us.


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    #46
    mp3guy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,954 ✭✭✭mp3guy


    graememk wrote: »
    Attached is a pic from on top of a roof about 7-8 m high.

    A turbine here might just be viable in this scenario, but compared to solar, and the payback of that, its no competition. - Id be better off sticking more solar on the roof.

    Not necessarily. You're looking at about €25k for a 3kW turbine that'll last. If you have decent mean annual wind speed (8 m/s), you'll generate close to 12MWh per year. Price a similarly sized solar PV array, it probably isn't too different.


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    #47
    air
    Registered Users Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭air


    A 12kW PV install (to generate that 12MWh ballpark) could be done DIY for €7k pretty easily I would think.
    There's a lot of space between that and €25k.

    Small wind makes no economic sense unless off grid (even then a generator along with an oversized PV array is likely cheaper).


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    #48
    mp3guy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,954 ✭✭✭mp3guy


    air wrote: »
    A 12kW PV install (to generate that 12MWh ballpark) could be done DIY for €7k pretty easily I would think.
    There's a lot of space between that and €25k.

    Small wind makes no economic sense unless off grid (even then a generator along with an oversized PV array is likely cheaper).

    Would love to see the breakdown for this, including inverters that can work with such an array *and* limit export to 6kW which is required for domestic installs, where a 3kW turbine wouldn't have this problem.

    Additionally, if you wanted to emulate the smoother continuous supply from a turbine, you would need batteries to accomplish that with solar PV, so if you want to price apples to apples, you need to include that.


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    #49
    air
    Registered Users Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭air


    Limiting export is simple, simply install a 6kW inverter and over supply it with the 12kW of PV, job done.
    Smooth continuous power is pretty irrelevant and in any case PV tends to be a lot smoother than wind.
    I helped a friend install a 5kW ground mount array last year for far less per kW than I have quoted but that was with exceptionally cheap panels which was why I increased my estimate to the 7k figure.
    This is more than generous taking current retail pricing into account.

    Edit - had a look on solartricity, 12kW of panels €4k, 6kW inverter €800
    Leaves plenty in the €7k estimate for a mounting system, cable, isolators, ducting etc.
    Obviously buying 2 pallets of panels opens up the possibility of better pricing on those also.


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    #50
    mp3guy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,954 ✭✭✭mp3guy


    air wrote: »
    Limiting export is simple, simply install a 6kW inverter and over supply it with the 12kW of PV, job done.
    Smooth continuous power is pretty irrelevant and in any case PV tends to be a lot smoother than wind.
    I helped a friend install a 5kW ground mount array last year for far less per kW than I have quoted but that was with exceptionally cheap panels which was why I increased my estimate to the 7k figure.
    This is more than generous taking current retail pricing into account.

    Can't say I agree.


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    #51
    air
    Registered Users Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭air


    mp3guy wrote: »
    Can't say I agree.

    Well it's hard to argue with such a considered and verifiable contribution to the thread.


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    #52
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    air wrote: »
    Edit - had a look on solartricity, 12kW of panels €4k, 6kW inverter €800

    Plenty of farmers with a steel shed like that would claim VAT back. If you can get the parts at a trade discount, a 12kWp system (mounting on steel shed is very cheap) would be under €4k in materials ex VAT

    And no maintenance required, no chance of damage / failure in a storm, lifetime of the panels is many decades


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    #53
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    unkel wrote: »
    Plenty of farmers with a steel shed like that would claim VAT back. If you can get the parts at a trade discount, a 12kWp system (mounting on steel shed is very cheap) would be under €4k in materials ex VAT

    And no maintenance required, no chance of damage / failure in a storm, lifetime of the panels is many decades

    Neighbours are still skeptical of mine!, I am cautious until i have hard numbers - ie I have saved X amount this year - I will have the data to back that up too.

    Oh and solartricity wouldn't warranty 8.4kwp on a 6kw inverter, so there is only 7.2 on the roof. (referencing the 12kw on a 6kw inverter)


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    #54
    air
    Registered Users Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭air


    Very few farmers are able to claim back VAT as I understand it, only commercial farms which are a minority.

    I agree that mounting on an existing trapezoidal steel roof is about the cheapest possible solution for PV.

    If ground mounting, a frame made from tubular galvanised steel is the most economical maintenance free option that I'm aware of.


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    #55
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    air wrote: »
    Very few farmers are able to claim back VAT as I understand it, only commercial farms which are a minority.

    I agree that mounting on an existing trapezoidal steel roof is about the cheapest possible solution for PV.

    Non registered "Flat rate" farms can claim vat back on Fixed Capital expenditures. ie anything bolted down. So new sheds, new fencing.. solar.

    Nearly all agri sheds are corrugated steel, none of this trapezoidal steel :P far too fancy.

    But you just get an adapter plate for the mount and stick it on & screw it down.


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