Nissan Leaf 60kWh

Shefwedfan · 16-06-2019 8:27pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

Motorways are the only place safe to drive quickly

Only morons accelerate hard in sub 50/60 zones

80/100 present some danger with road conditions, houses, farm animals around etc, accelerating hard not a great idea either

What exactly is "quickly" and "accelerate hard"?

Are you trying to say that you have to drive slow on every road in Ireland unless it is a motorway?

Some of the best driving roads in Ireland and in the World are not motorways, you can drive "quickly" on these roads at 50km/h and the fun of driving on these roads are the bends...

Driving fast in a straight line is boring, hence why all those silly Tesla videos of some plonker flooring the car on a straight road only impresses children....

Do a google of the best driving roads in the World and I bet very few are a motorway

Mike9832 · 16-06-2019 9:06pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Mike9832 wrote: »

Motorways are the only place safe to drive quickly

Only morons accelerate hard in sub 50/60 zones

80/100 present some danger with road conditions, houses, farm animals around etc, accelerating hard not a great idea either

What exactly is "quickly" and "accelerate hard"?

Are you trying to say that you have to drive slow on every road in Ireland unless it is a motorway?

Some of the best driving roads in Ireland and in the World are not motorways, you can drive "quickly" on these roads at 50km/h and the fun of driving on these roads are the bends...

Driving fast in a straight line is boring, hence why all those silly Tesla videos of some plonker flooring the car on a straight road only impresses children....

Do a google of the best driving roads in the World and I bet very few are a motorway

If you want to go fast around bends and act like Schumacher, take it to a track.Mondello is great fun, been many times

Flying up Conor Pass or Glendalough with sheep, dogs and god knows what around the bend in a Nissan Leaf wouldnt be my idea of safe driving and certaintly not what a Nissan Leaf was designed to do

An empty motorway on the other hand

One of my hates is idiots flying around in towns, racing from lights to lights and then crawling on the motorway

Seen a few EV drivers doing that lately as well as ICE

Mike9832 · 16-06-2019 9:07pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Padraig Mor wrote: »

As I said, a pile of crap.

So you're comparing a discounted Civic price (which you claim you can get, but I have my doubts on a brand new version) for a lower spec model with the Leaf list price for a top spec model. Talk about disingenuous! Why not compare like with like? Because it wouldn't suit your argument of course. I was offered €2k off list for a Leaf 40 SVE - maybe you should include that in your calculations?!

Have I driven the Civic? I'm over 25, and don't wear a tracksuit all day, so no.

Thanks for confirming that the Civic has a lower spec than the Leaf you compared it to. How much does the Civic cost with the 9 speed auto, leather and self driving? There's the real comparison. Is such a model even available?

Many cars will pull away from the Leaf past 100......has anyone said otherwise? As someone who drives a Leaf faster than most, it's still the lower speed acceleration that's most useful.

And to clarify, the Leaf 40 is 0.3 seconds faster to 100 than the slow coach Civic; the Leaf 62 (which you compared it to) leaves it for dead at 1.6 seconds faster.

If I was you I wouldn't bother, every thread on here it is the same, page after page of it.....

Shouldnt you take that advice?

Shefwedfan · 16-06-2019 9:32pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

If you want to go fast around bends and act like Schumacher, take it to a track.Mondello is great fun, been many times

Flying up Conor Pass or Glendalough with sheep, dogs and god knows what around the bend in a Nissan Leaf wouldnt be my idea of safe driving and certaintly not what a Nissan Leaf was designed to do

An empty motorway on the other hand

One of my hates is idiots flying around in towns, racing from lights to lights and then crawling on the motorway

Seen a few EV drivers doing that lately as well as ICE

I’m not sure you know what your talking about but

I will leave it at that....

Soarer · 16-06-2019 10:00pm

Christ Thierry, give it a rest.

If you want a Civic petrol, just get the funking thing.

You've proven over and over again that you've no interest in buying an ev in the next couple of years, and all you do is drag every thread into petty squabbling.

How many times like?!

catharsis · 16-06-2019 10:32pm

JPA wrote: »

Outranges model 3? Not sure where you got that from.

unkel wrote: »

I'd like to see a range test at 120km/h GPS speed between the two. If I were a gambling man, I would put serious money on the Tesla to significantly outrange the Leaf.

macnab wrote: »

Apart from pro-pilot, I would say you are incorrect on all of the above.
I calculate that the 3 SR+ will outrage the Leaf+ by about 10% in real world use.
It also seems to be larger than a Leaf. Practicality might be close but I'd say the Tesla will be better.

(range below based upon reported real world experiences - Kona perhaps 250, model 3 190 and Leaf 220 Miles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIGLVY8Crvg & in particular https://www.alexonautos.com/rangeexplained/)

Edited to add: Would love to see real-world range experiences (normal driving not hypermiling) of the Model 3 SR in Europe - anyone have any links?

As regards size/practicality....

1. It's a hatchback.
2. Teslabjorn banana box test Nissan Leaf 2018: 7/21 Tesla Model 3: 6/17

unkel · 16-06-2019 10:58pm

Thanks for the vid, catharsis, but it has a lot of flaws. The circuit they check the range on looks like it is less than half motorway. And the motorway bits look like they have a speed limit of 65mph (a bit over 100km/h). They also check range based on how many kWh the cars take in after the cars are charged back up. That's an indirect method

Fine for people who do a similar circuit, but why bother testing it if you have an official EPA rating that you can compare?

Where range matters for most people is when you do a long trip. At the speed limit. This is where the Tesla will beat the Leaf. The second most important factor is on trips where you have to charge. This is where the Tesla beats any other EV for sale today. It can charge at up to 250kW on the Supercharger V3. It can charge at almost 200kW on Ionity chargers. In Ireland today, the second the first Model 3 gets delivered to its owner, it can charge at 175kW on the existing Irish Ionity chargers. And at the exising Irish supercharger V2 at 150kW. The Leaf can only charge at 43kW in Ireland...

catharsis · 16-06-2019 11:57pm

I think I agree with almost all Unkel except the reference to EPA range

I think pretty much everyone agrees that the EPA range for the Kona/Niro underestimates their range at least slightly, while the Tesla numbers are a little more 'aspirational' and will never be achieved (like NEDC ratings were in europe).

The point re: charging speed is fundamental but may be really uncommon where you have 200+ Mile cars. I can see someone from Dublin never using a fast charger to get pretty much anywhere in the country unless they are coming back same day.

unkel · 17-06-2019 12:20am

Agreed with the very limited need for public fast charging for a 60kWh car in Ireland. Even in cars with a very small battery, like my 28kWh Ioniq, I only need to charge en route for long distance travel. It can do about 220km on average, so with just home charging once overnight, I could do 80k km per year. But I only do the national average of 16k km per year.

So basically, the EPA cycle is irrelevant for all but the very few people who do huge mileage every day. Unfortunately it's the only comparison range we've got.

Stealthirl · 17-06-2019 1:09am

L24 here and iv done two 600km in a day trips in the last 2 months, but on those trips i never went above 100kph and only in Wexford did i get caught out at the FCP.
Im doing it again tomorrow but will be taking an ICE due to time restraints

brownep · 18-06-2019 1:17pm

The Kona available in Ireland has been spoiled by removing the Smart Cruise feature and only offering the basic version which in my humble opinion is dangerous. Just compare Irish spec with UK. Not fair! The Kia eNiro is a much better car. Many extra features but 2019 already sold out.

Mike9832 · 20-06-2019 2:12pm

UK reviews coming in and not great from Whatcar

https://www.whatcar.com/news/2019-nissan-leaf-e-review-price-specs-and-release-date/n19538

Horrible torque steer, suspension issues with extra weight, slow charging ( 90 mins 20-80%), €3500 more expensive than better eNiro with faster charging

That charge speed can't be right?

Do they have chargers at cinemas?

Pretty harsh review, but for over €40,000 it has to be?

slave1 · 20-06-2019 2:48pm

Throttled fast charging?

20-06-2019 2:48pm

They didn't mention torque steer just that that there is lots of torque. On the negatives I'm really surprised the handling and ride both appear worse than the L40 and it really is laughably expensive compared to the L40 and Model 3 and Niro too.

Charging time of 90 minutes at 4X kW max chargers sound about right. The future (hopefully) faster CHAdeMO chargers will reduce the time somewhat down to 45-60 ish minutes. I think Nissan have already said that the car can do sustained average of 70 kW on upgraded chargers to 80 percent instead of about 40 kW on the current car.

Definitely could have been better and the only saving grace is that the hatchback competitors have a 1 year waiting list and that Tesla Model 3 is a saloon. I'm actually surprised that Nissan have managed to kill the ok ride and handling the L40 has...

ELM327 · 20-06-2019 3:02pm

There won't be any >50kW chademo connectors outside of APAC for some time.
Even Norway, the king of EVs in Europe have 150/350kW labelled units but the chademo side only gives 50kW

Sticking with chademo was a bad move for nissan, especially competing with the Hyundia triplets and the model 3

Lumen · 20-06-2019 3:11pm

samih wrote: »

They didn't mention torque steer just that that there is lots of torque.

They do in the Autocar review, assuming the "e+" and the "e+ Tekna" are the same car.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/nissan/leaf/first-drives/nissan-leaf-e-tekna-2019-uk-review

"As with the Kona Electric, however, this level of power and torque on tap from the get-go causes some issues in the chassis department. Nissan has revised the suspension for the e+, but that doesn’t prevent the traction control from going berserk when you try to move away smartly with steering lock applied. The steering wheel squirms this way and that, too, while undulating Tarmac makes the car lose grip all too easily when its safety systems are turned off."

slave1 · 20-06-2019 3:39pm

But this car will be available for sale whereas the Kona and Niro are effectively gone, Nissan have always had plenty of supply to meet demand.
Pretty poor review though...

Lumen · 20-06-2019 4:18pm

slave1 wrote: »

But this car will be available for sale whereas the Kona and Niro are effectively gone, Nissan have always had plenty of supply to meet demand.
Pretty poor review though...

My take away from that Autocar review is that the top end Leaf just doesn't make sense.

FWD ICE cars have been developed to handle ridicolous torque, so it seems like a pure lack of focus on that particular engineering aspect. Nissan should probably just limit the torque based on wheel/road speed, it can't be that hard with an electric motor.

krissovo · 20-06-2019 5:19pm

Its sad to read as a Leaf fanboy, I am glad I got a deal with 40kw and didn't wait for the 60kw which I was originally going to do. It appears they have rushed it out to address the flaws of the 40kw and created a bit of stinker. Torque Steer in 2019 is unforgivable especially for "Safe" Nissan.

unkel · 20-06-2019 6:43pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

90 mins 20-80%

From 20-80% is 60% of the battery of 60kWh, so it takes 1.5 hours to take in 36kWh

That's 24kW charging. Pathetic. Its competitor the model 3 can now charge at 250kW, and probably average close to 200kW from 20-80%

That's nearly 10 times as fast. And then when it drives off at 120km/h it probably uses 40% less energy (so doesn't need to charge as often)

I'd say in a race from Berlin to Rome, the Tesla would take less than half the time

20-06-2019 6:56pm

unkel wrote: »

From 20-80% is 60% of the battery of 60kWh, so it takes 1.5 hours to take in 36kWh

That's 24kW charging. Pathetic. Its competitor the model 3 can now charge at 250kW, and probably average close to 200kW from 20-80%

That's nearly 10 times as fast. And then when it drives off at 120km/h it probably uses 40% less energy (so doesn't need to charge as often)

I'd say in a race from Berlin to Rome, the Tesla would take less than half the time

As the L40 now averages 40 kW on a "50 kW" charger to 70 percent and still charges at over 20 kW at 80 percent I find the 24 kW average on the bigger battery hard to believe. Especially since Nissan has promised the car to average 70 kW to 80 percent using 100+ kW CHAdeMO station.

Shefwedfan · 20-06-2019 7:25pm

unkel wrote: »

From 20-80% is 60% of the battery of 60kWh, so it takes 1.5 hours to take in 36kWh

That's 24kW charging. Pathetic. Its competitor the model 3 can now charge at 250kW, and probably average close to 200kW from 20-80%

That's nearly 10 times as fast. And then when it drives off at 120km/h it probably uses 40% less energy (so doesn't need to charge as often)

I'd say in a race from Berlin to Rome, the Tesla would take less than half the time

Is the Tesla really in competition with the Leaf? the entry level Tesla is 48k. This is the top of the range Nissan.....

I am not up to speed on the exact spec of the tesla and range but will they be the same?

unkel · 20-06-2019 8:45pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Is the Tesla really in competition with the Leaf? the entry level Tesla is 48k. This is the top of the range Nissan.....

In the UK it's over GBP36k list price before delivery charges etc., the Tesla is under GBP39k on the road so yes they certainly are direct competitors.

Nedved85 · 20-06-2019 9:47pm

unkel wrote: »

In the UK it's over GBP36k list price before delivery charges etc., the Tesla is under GBP39k on the road so yes they certainly are direct competitors.

That is absolutely ludicrous, who would buy a 60kWh Leaf over a Model 3?

Zenith74 · 21-06-2019 8:31am

Nedved85 wrote: »

That is absolutely ludicrous, who would buy a 60kWh Leaf over a Model 3?

It's ludicrous to us as techies/EV-enthusiasts, but Europeans have chosen compact hatchbacks over saloon cars for a long time, no reason for that to change. My wife simply would not drive a saloon and she also doesn't care about the tech in the car or any of that. She would choose the Leaf every day of the week.

Then there are all the people who will believe the FUD about Tesla and not want to take the risk, and from chatting to friends and colleagues I'd say this is the majority of people. My mother relays the odd thing she hears about Tesla as she knows I'm interested, it's usually "I read Tesla are in trouble" etc. People like this would choose Nissan over Tesla every day of the week as well.

Don't get me wrong though, I do think the L62 is quite expensive, but just saying that if you take some random Joes off the street and ask them to choose one over the other, when both cars do the key things they want (A->B), I think you'd see the vast majority choose a Nissan/Hyundai etc. Needless to say, if the choice was between a Leaf62 and a Pulsar at half the price, the vast majority would not choose the Leaf, which is the next issue EVs need to resolve

ELM327 · 21-06-2019 8:46am

samih wrote: »

As the L40 now averages 40 kW on a "50 kW" charger to 70 percent and still charges at over 20 kW at 80 percent I find the 24 kW average on the bigger battery hard to believe. Especially since Nissan has promised the car to average 70 kW to 80 percent using 100+ kW CHAdeMO station.

Yes but those don't exist so on a 50kW even if it sustains 40kW for over an hour it won't be at 80%. Heat will build up, even at lower speed, because the charge is sustained over a longer time. All EVs suffer from this, even tesla/etron/kona etc. But it's more pronounced in the leaf because you will always be charging at 40kW from a 50kW charger. 100kW chademo does not exist in the wild.

Shefwedfan · 21-06-2019 8:59am

Nedved85 wrote: »

That is absolutely ludicrous, who would buy a 60kWh Leaf over a Model 3?

Why is France full of small cars?

Why is a lot of Europe fans of small cars.....

The Tesla was developed by Americans for American's. How many other successful American cars have hit Europe?

Watch any video of a Tesla, some plonker sitting in it and flooring it while going in a straight line. Fantastic....not really in Europe......

ELM327 · 21-06-2019 9:23am

arguably some of the most successful cars in Europe have been american (think any ford for instance).

JohnC. · 21-06-2019 9:42am

ELM327 wrote: »

arguably some of the most successful cars in Europe have been american (think any ford for instance).

But aren't they cars designed largely for Europe rather than big barges they sold in the US?

Nedved85 · 21-06-2019 9:42am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why is France full of small cars?

Why is a lot of Europe fans of small cars.....

The Tesla was developed by Americans for American's. How many other successful American cars have hit Europe?

Watch any video of a Tesla, some plonker sitting in it and flooring it while going in a straight line. Fantastic....not really in Europe......

No idea tbh, I am just genuinely shocked at how close in price a 60kWh Leaf is to a Model 3. It makes no sense to me. I have a 30kWh Leaf, it's a great car. If my car had twice the range and was brand new etc, would I chose it over a Model 3 to save a few grand... not a chance. Each to their own though

Shefwedfan · 21-06-2019 9:47am

ELM327 wrote: »

arguably some of the most successful cars in Europe have been american (think any ford for instance).

I mentioned Ford and then deleted in original post :-)

What Ford sell in Europe and what Ford sell in US are very different. Ford have a huge heritage in Europe and design cars for European market

US companies trying to sell US cars into Europe has mostly been a disaster....

Shefwedfan · 21-06-2019 9:51am

Nedved85 wrote: »

No idea tbh, I am just genuinely shocked at how close in price a 60kWh Leaf is to a Model 3. It makes no sense to me. I have a 30kWh Leaf, it's a great car. If my car had twice the range and was brand new etc, would I chose it over a Model 3 to save a few grand... not a chance. Each to their own though

What I am not sure is are they the same spec and price? not sure if that is confirmed yet?

If you go like for like spec is the price close?

I would go Model3 myself if both are same spec and not a huge price difference but then I dont live in a European city. Trying to drive a Tesla around a French city would be fun, might as well invest in a body shop when buying the car

ELM327 · 21-06-2019 9:52am

They sell/sold the fiesta, focus and mondeo in US, along with the ranger pickup and transit van

Shefwedfan · 21-06-2019 9:54am

ELM327 wrote: »

They sell/sold the fiesta, focus and mondeo in US, along with the ranger pickup and transit van

Last count was 32 million F-150's in the US. Not even released here :-)

They have pulled the cars from sale in the US because of low sales, they are keeping in Europe.....

VW will not sell the ID.3 in the US, they are only going to bring out the Crozz. Shows the difference.

The Model 3 is a good car I am not saying it isn't, just people in Europe have different requirements than going fast in a straight line.....

ELM327 · 21-06-2019 10:01am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Last count was 32 million F-150's in the US. Not even released here :-)

They have pulled the cars from sale in the US because of low sales, they are keeping in Europe.....

VW will not sell the ID.3 in the US, they are only going to bring out the Crozz. Shows the difference.

The Model 3 is a good car I am not saying it isn't, just people in Europe have different requirements than going fast in a straight line.....

Yes, this is a bugbear of mine, I'd love an f150 and if they ever bring out a full EV version I will import one when it is 6 months old.
But I take your point.

In europe we want european (or increasingly asian) cars and small crossovers
In the US/CA regions they want pickups, suv and minivans. Along with large crossovers.

There's not much intersecting between the two.

Nedved85 · 21-06-2019 10:01am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What I am not sure is are they the same spec and price? not sure if that is confirmed yet?

If you go like for like spec is the price close?

I would go Model3 myself if both are same spec and not a huge price difference but then I dont live in a European city. Trying to drive a Tesla around a French city would be fun, might as well invest in a body shop when buying the car

For me, the Leaf has two major downsides:

1. The Chademo adaptor

I pass by the Ionity Chargers/ESB Fast Charger on a longish trip once a month. If my Leaf had CCS I'd be almost guaranteed a charging spot. The ecars fast charger is likely to be in use unfortunately.

2. Energy consumption above 100 km/h.

It really drains the battery (for my version anyway). I'm OK with that for the 30kWh as I knew at the time what I was getting into, but for a car over €40k I would see as a deal breaker.

Mickeroo · 21-06-2019 10:02am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What I am not sure is are they the same spec and price? not sure if that is confirmed yet?

If you go like for like spec is the price close?

I would go Model3 myself if both are same spec and not a huge price difference but then I dont live in a European city. Trying to drive a Tesla around a French city would be fun, might as well invest in a body shop when buying the car

Model 3 is sized like a normal european car from what I've seen.

Mike9832 · 21-06-2019 10:17am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What I am not sure is are they the same spec and price? not sure if that is confirmed yet?

If you go like for like spec is the price close?

I would go Model3 myself if both are same spec and not a huge price difference but then I dont live in a European city. Trying to drive a Tesla around a French city would be fun, might as well invest in a body shop when buying the car

Do they not have BMW 3 series in Paris or do they come with body armour lol?

Ridiculous thing to say

21-06-2019 10:36am

Nissan LEAF I bought for about 30k is good value for money as a family car. Nissan LEAF at over 40k is not good value for a family car expecially as the charging and battery decisions are questionable. The maths don't make any sense and spending that amount money on a half ass design of car you'd need your head examined. Even as the TM3 is a not a hatchback and I talk as a family with two dogs I rob the few grand needed and stretch myself finanacially to get a Tesla Model 3 over spending over 40 fecking yoyo + delivery for a fecking Nissan LEAF. I would actually rather go back to an ICE than spend over 40k on a LEAF and come back after a couple of years. And so should everybody.

Thieving btrds!

21-06-2019 10:43am

The only way this car markes any sense is to get a heftly discount and/or trade in offer that is really generous to bring the effective price down by about 8k. As I have said before this car for 35k or less OTR with pro pilot is bang on the money. Anything above that just take a bus or walk instead. And that's the absolutely maximum anybody should pay. Don't let Nissan take advantage of you folk.

Luckylow10 · 21-06-2019 10:49am

These cars will always appeal to a certain age/demographic of people

I.e the over 60s

I’m purchasing leaf 40 as a second run around car and Went to Windsor EV event.

I was the youngest there by about 25 years. ðŸ€

ELM327 · 21-06-2019 11:07am

i would suggest thats more about the profile of people bothered to go to a windsor sales event tbh
most probably wanted the free coffee and chat

Luckylow10 · 21-06-2019 11:10am

ELM327 wrote: »

i would suggest thats more about the profile of people bothered to go to a windsor sales event tbh
most probably wanted the free coffee and chat

Absolutely.. guilty myself for grabbing a couple of boxes of chocolates for the kids

21-06-2019 11:16am

Luckylow10 wrote: »

Absolutely.. guilty myself for grabbing a couple of boxes of chocolates for the kids

Hope you got a good deal. You'll love the L40 and it will become your #1 car instead of runaround I'd say. And then you'll be itching to change your own car for a long range electric.

Luckylow10 · 21-06-2019 11:18am

samih wrote: »

Hope you got a good deal. You'll love the L40 and it will become your #1 car instead of runaround I'd say. And then you'll be itching to change your own car for a long range electric.

That’s the plan.. just dipping the toes into EV and see how it goes..

21-06-2019 11:27am

Luckylow10 wrote: »

That’s the plan.. just dipping the toes into EV and see how it goes..

As long a you have your own charging, don't drive often over 200 kilometers at a time and are not afraid of using your charger you'll love it. Basically pretend that there are no public chargers and that you're just pluggin in your mobile phone on your nightside table.

Also it took me years of almost daily opening the boot and uncoiling the cable when it was time to charge before I saw the error in my ways. Get a second Type 2 cable and lock and attach it permanently at your charging point. Then it will be just be a question of 5 seconds to plug in and out. And get into habit of plugging in the car every time the battery reaches about 50 percent to cater for any unplanned trip the next day.

unkel · 21-06-2019 11:41am

Amen to that, samih.

Luckylow10 · 21-06-2019 12:11pm

Yes I have the Elvi charge point installed already which is tethered. This can be upgraded easily depending on the vehicle etc down the years according to EVBox.

Car is ready and waiting in the dealership . Just waiting for 192 reg plate..

Nedved85 · 21-06-2019 12:16pm

Luckylow10 wrote: »

Yes I have the Elvi charge point installed already which is tethered. This can be upgraded easily depending on the vehicle etc down the years according to EVBox.

Car is ready and waiting in the dealership . Just waiting for 192 reg plate..

Well wear!

KCross · 21-06-2019 12:29pm

samih wrote: »

Nissan LEAF I bought for about 30k is good value for money as a family car. Nissan LEAF at over 40k is not good value for a family car expecially as the charging and battery decisions are questionable. The maths don't make any sense and spending that amount money on a half ass design of car you'd need your head examined. Even as the TM3 is a not a hatchback and I talk as a family with two dogs I rob the few grand needed and stretch myself finanacially to get a Tesla Model 3 over spending over 40 fecking yoyo + delivery for a fecking Nissan LEAF. I would actually rather go back to an ICE than spend over 40k on a LEAF and come back after a couple of years. And so should everybody.

Thieving btrds!

samih wrote: »

The only way this car markes any sense is to get a heftly discount and/or trade in offer that is really generous to bring the effective price down by about 8k. As I have said before this car for 35k or less OTR with pro pilot is bang on the money. Anything above that just take a bus or walk instead. And that's the absolutely maximum anybody should pay. Don't let Nissan take advantage of you folk.

The high prices are going to be with us for many years to come. Holding out for the "big guns" to come in with a load of long range <€35k EV's is not going to happen this side of 2025, imo.

There might be a couple (e208, ID.3 poverty spec etc) around the €30k mark, but not much less, and they wont be long range.

Anything in the long range bracket will continue to be €40k and they will all sell out.

Nissan Leaf 60kWh

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