Nissan Leaf 60kWh

Old diesel · 07-12-2018 10:15am

Zenith74 wrote: »

I think we're all disappointed there won't be water cooling given we know that would solve the problem, but I don't think we should be just to conclusions on what Nissan have planned for the L60. Granted their history is not good here, but we don't know how their air cooling is being done and there are some very effective air-cooling technologies out there. Just think we need to be careful not to jump to complete doom and gloom conclusions before we know a little more.

But Nissan have had this narrow focused idea that "most drivers don't do over X amount of miles per day" in their EV.

So the cooling strategy for this one is likely to reflect this in terms of offering a slightly longer per day mileage capability.

Heres the possible Nissan limited thinking potentially in action.

Car has 200 miles capability - the aim is to increase the amount of journeys you can do with NO charge stops at all.

Also with 200 mile from 100 percent capability - and based on 1 rapid to 80 percent - you might in Nissans world be able to do 360 miles a day.

So for Nissans engineers - you "won't need the ability to charge at full rate speed for a 2nd charge".

Because "no one does 360 miles a day".

The whole farce reminds me of Mazdas diesel track record and how Honda have failed in Formula one since 2015.

The one advantage is that due to Rapidgate version one and the availability of Leaf spy - it's now known how to check the capability of Nissans 60 kwh cooling.

We will have immediate indications the first time a Jonathan Porterfield type person gets their hands on it for a 450 mile dash across the country.

Silent Running · 07-12-2018 10:22am

Old diesel wrote: »

But Nissan have had this narrow focused idea that "most drivers don't do over X amount of miles per day" in their EV.

So the cooling strategy for this one is likely to reflect this in terms of offering a slightly longer per day mileage capability.

Heres the possible Nissan limited thinking potentially in action.

Car has 200 miles capability - the aim is to increase the amount of journeys you can do with NO charge stops at all.

Also with 200 mile from 100 percent capability - and based on 1 rapid to 80 percent - you might in Nissans world be able to do 360 miles a day.

So for Nissans engineers - you "won't need the ability to charge at full rate speed for a 2nd charge".

Because "no one does 360 miles a day".

The whole farce reminds me of Mazdas diesel track record and how Honda have failed in Formula one since 2015.

The one advantage is that due to Rapidgate version one and the availability of Leaf spy - it's now known how to check the capability of Nissans 60 kwh cooling.

We will have immediate indications the first time a Jonathan Porterfield type person gets their hands on it for a 450 mile dash across the country.

The hell with Jonathan Porterfield. I'll be watching out for our own DrPhilG to take one for a test drive. It was his report that saved me from buying a Leaf 40 earlier this year.

Zenith74 · 07-12-2018 10:32am

Old diesel wrote: »

But Nissan have had this narrow focused idea that "most drivers don't do over X amount of miles per day" in their EV.

So the cooling strategy for this one is likely to reflect this in terms of offering a slightly longer per day mileage capability.

Heres the possible Nissan limited thinking potentially in action.

Car has 200 miles capability - the aim is to increase the amount of journeys you can do with NO charge stops at all.

Also with 200 mile from 100 percent capability - and based on 1 rapid to 80 percent - you might in Nissans world be able to do 360 miles a day.

So for Nissans engineers - you "won't need the ability to charge at full rate speed for a 2nd charge".

Because "no one does 360 miles a day".

The whole farce reminds me of Mazdas diesel track record and how Honda have failed in Formula one since 2015.

The one advantage is that due to Rapidgate version one and the availability of Leaf spy - it's now known how to check the capability of Nissans 60 kwh cooling.

We will have immediate indications the first time a Jonathan Porterfield type person gets their hands on it for a 450 mile dash across the country.

Yep agree with all that, as I said their history is not good. I'm just pointing out that there's some distance between 'water cooling solves everything' and 'air cooling cannot solve anything ever'. They COULD do a decent implementation of it, technology wise air-cooling may well be perfectly sufficient for a non-performance EV.

Old diesel · 07-12-2018 10:46am

Silent Running wrote: »

The hell with Jonathan Porterfield. I'll be watching out for our own DrPhilG to take one for a test drive. It was his report that saved me from buying a Leaf 40 earlier this year.

The Jonathan Porterfield point is more to do with how we can learn very quickly in a days driving very early on what the potential limitations of the new car are.

We will likely be going into summer when the new car arrives which will give us even faster answers

Silent Running · 07-12-2018 10:55am

Old diesel wrote: »

The Jonathan Porterfield point is more to do with how we can learn very quickly in a days driving very early on what the potential limitations of the new car are.

We will likely be going into summer when the new car arrives which will give us even faster answers

Yep, you can be sure it won't be a case of people accidentally finding out about the battery flaws, if any. There will be people queuing up to be the first to point out a weakness, after the Rapidgate scandal.

KCross · 07-12-2018 11:49am

Air coming from an a/c unit is about 4ºC.
A battery at 40ºC having 4º air actively pushed over it is going to expel alot of heat, particularly since the Ioniq manages fine with just ambient air being push over its pack.

Nissan could still f*ck it up of course but they have no excuses and I'm sure LG Chem will hold them to a much higher standard. If they implement something half arsed LG Chem wouldnt signoff on it.

lightspeed · 01-06-2019 12:35pm

Has anybody any idea how much the 30kwh fell in price immediately after current 40kwh version was launched?

Just trying to gauge if we can expect similar percentage fall in price in current 40kwh when the new 62kwh is released.

I like the look of nissan leave much better than that of the zoe but can't beat the zoe for value. Seems the base model of zoe 41kwh is about 25k with 0% finance whereas nissan leaf is just over 30k with a further 2k in finance charges at 3.9%.

The higher range on the newer models is welcomed of course but can't help but notice the price tag of an economy new electric motor is becoming more uneconomical with each release.

slave1 · 01-06-2019 12:47pm

Different scenario, the 30 was the last of that generation shape whereas the 40 and 62 are both the same car shape just with different battery size, I doubt there will be any drop and in any case aren't Nissan increasing all their EV car prices shortly so I'd say the 40 will actually increase and not decrease

KCross · 01-06-2019 12:58pm

lightspeed wrote: »

Has anybody any idea how much the 30kwh fell in price immediately after current 40kwh version was launched?

Just trying to gauge if we can expect similar percentage fall in price in current 40kwh when the new 62kwh is released.

The L62 will be a good €5k more to buy than the L40 so dont expect any drop in price on the L40 when the L62 is released.

The only thing that will drive the price down on an L40 will be competition, not the introduction of the L62.

lightspeed · 01-06-2019 1:20pm

KCross wrote: »

The L62 will be a good €5k more to buy than the L40 so dont expect any drop in price on the L40 when the L62 is released.

The only thing that will drive the price down on an L40 will be competition, not the introduction of the L62.

I could see an estimate of 5k being likely accurate but there wouldnt be much room for more than that. The Kona electric is about 39k if I'm not mistaken and looks to be a larger family car so much more than that i think people will towards the Kona and feel they getting better value than the leaf.

Just googling when next zoe will be out and rumours are it will be Sep 2019 but with only a 50kwh for some bizarre reason if that is the case. In any case assuming it priced considerably less than new leaf it would still steal some customers that would have otherwise went with the new leaf.

Also the VW ID should bring greater competition albeit it wont be out until sometime in 2020.

Gumbo · 01-06-2019 1:28pm

lightspeed wrote: »

I could see an estimate of 5k being likely accurate but there wouldnt be much room for more than that. The Kona electric is about 39k if I'm not mistaken and looks to be a larger family car so much more than that i think people will towards the Kona and feel they getting better value than the leaf.

Just googling when next zoe will be out and rumours are it will be Sep 2019 but with only a 50kwh for some bizarre reason if that is the case. In any case assuming it priced considerably less than new leaf it would still steal some customers that would have otherwise went with the new leaf.

Also the VW ID should bring greater competition albeit it wont be out until sometime in 2020.

I thought the leaf was much bigger inside than the Kona. I know I’d have a leaf over a Kona any day.

Old diesel · 01-06-2019 1:30pm

Given the market Zoe was traditionally aimed at - 50 kwh is grand tbh.

PSA/Opel are going similar.

Will be interesting to see how real world range works out.

Crucially both PSA/Opel and Renault designing for faster then 50 kw charging.

Pug seem to going for 80 percent in 30 mins at 100 kw chargers.

KCross · 01-06-2019 1:31pm

lightspeed wrote: »

The Kona electric is about 39k if I'm not mistaken and looks to be a larger family car so much more than that i think people will towards the Kona and feel they getting better value than the leaf.

The Kona is tiny. Leaf has alot more room in it. It depends on what you want really. The CUV style is the fashion!

lightspeed wrote: »

I could see an estimate of 5k being likely accurate but there wouldnt be much room for more than that.

Nissan have released L62 prices in the UK. Its £4900 more expensive than the L40. That will translate to at least €5k here, imo. They will price it alongside the Kona and eNiro.

lightspeed wrote: »

Just googling when next zoe will be out and rumours are it will be Sep 2019 but with only a 50kwh for some bizarre reason if that is the case. In any case assuming it priced considerably less than new leaf it would still steal some customers that would have otherwise went with the new leaf.

It wont affect prices though. Zoe and Leaf coexist today so its not like its a new entrant that will disrupt things. Unfortunately EV prices are going up, not down!

lightspeed wrote: »

Also the VW ID should bring greater competition albeit it wont be out until sometime in 2020.

Thats the last remaining hope but I'm not holding my breath. Every new EV release has been a disappointment on price.

catharsis · 07-06-2019 6:00pm

Leaf SVE 62kwh has increased by €8,200 in comparison to the retail price of the 2018 40Kwh SVE Leaf.

Specifically the 2019 Leaf+ SVE will apparently be 41,800

sk8board · 07-06-2019 9:17pm

catharsis wrote: »

Leaf SVE 62kwh has increased by €8,200 in comparison to the retail price of the 2018 40Kwh SVE Leaf.

Specifically the 2019 Leaf+ SVE will apparently be 41,800

You’d really want to WANT to drive an EV. Thats before grants, I would hope?

Soarer · 07-06-2019 10:02pm

sk8board wrote: »

You’d really want to WANT to drive an EV. Thats before grants, I would hope?

Don't think so.

unkel · 07-06-2019 10:14pm

€42k for what is essentially a Pulsar with a big battery. And only sluggish 43kW max charging on an obsolete system. Madness. Will it appeal to any Irish buyers? Surely it won't, apart maybe from die hard Nissan Leaf fans who probably have already had both L24 and L40?

Nedved85 · 08-06-2019 1:20am

unkel wrote: »

€42k for what is essentially a Pulsar with a big battery. And only sluggish 43kW max charging on an obsolete system. Madness. Will it appeal to any Irish buyers? Surely it won't, apart maybe from die hard Nissan Leaf fans who probably have already had both L24 and L40?

I have to agree. For me Chademo is the biggest problem. I was in Cashel lately topping up at the Esb Fast charger there. Walked over to the Ionity chargers was admiring the four chargers nicely lined up, a BMW charging up (ccs I imagine) because there was no spot at the Esb FC. I travel that way a nice bit and the piece of mind with the Ionity charger (or Tesla SC if you can afford a Tesla) must be fantastic. €8 a session, no problem! Buying a new leaf at that kind of money is ludicrous imo.

unkel · 08-06-2019 1:42am

And isn't it funny that we think our one and only 4 bay station in this country is bliss and a bit of heaven for EV owners - as all others are just 1 bay :rolleyes:? Talking to my best mate (who owns a Tesla Model 3) and he told me that his local supercharger in NL has 26 bays. Not the biggest in the country. And in NO they have far bigger superchargers. There is a 44 bay over there. In the US there are several 40+ bay and to show the real disruption of EV cars, there are three superchargers with 50 bays. All in China!!!

DrPhilG · 08-06-2019 8:07am

unkel wrote: »

And in NO they have far bigger superchargers. There is a 44 bay over there.

I've charged at that one!

Biggest in Europe I believe.

08-06-2019 8:29am

It's almost if Nissan doesn't want to sell it. The only way this can sell any copies is if they bring back scrappage, and similar incentives for the current Nissan EV drivers. Or good PCP deals. Cost to change from previous generation cars as is would be very prohibitive.

At around 35k OTR this car would actually be a really good deal the charging standard withstanding. And even that wouldn't really matter with the large range.

Soarer · 08-06-2019 9:07am

unkel wrote: »

€42k for what is essentially a Pulsar with a big battery. And only sluggish 43kW max charging on an obsolete system. Madness. Will it appeal to any Irish buyers? Surely it won't, apart maybe from die hard Nissan Leaf fans who probably have already had both L24 and L40?

You’re being a bit harsh there.
€42k is for the SVE model, which is hardly a wasteland. I’d much rather the SVE L62 to the similarly priced Kona/Niro EV.
Plus it has over 200bhp.
The chademo could be seen as a problem. But that’s down to our network rather than the car. There must be a reason Nissan are sticking to it.
Plus, with that size of a battery, and faster ac charging (as far as I remember), there shouldn’t be too many journeys that require the dc?

Silent Running · 08-06-2019 9:31am

Soarer wrote: »

You’re being a bit harsh there.
€42k is for the SVE model, which is hardly a wasteland. I’d much rather the SVE L62 to the similarly priced Kona/Niro EV.
Plus it has over 200bhp.
The chademo could be seen as a problem. But that’s down to our network rather than the car. There must be a reason Nissan are sticking to it.
Plus, with that size of a battery, and faster ac charging (as far as I remember), there shouldn’t be too many journeys that require the dc?

And what about the lack of battery thermal management?

Why is 200bhp a plus over the 204bhp Niro and Kona?

The Leaf 62 SVE is going to be at least €3,000 more than the Niro, going by recent reports. Internally, it's smaller than the Niro (open to correction on that one, but Niro feels a lot bigger). It has a marginally smaller battery than Niro, and the extra charging availability of CCS can't be just shrugged off. Ionity is no longer a pipe dream.

I can't understand why anyone would choose a L62 over a Niro 64. Except for blind brand loyalty.

Shefwedfan · 08-06-2019 9:45am

unkel wrote: »

€42k for what is essentially a Pulsar with a big battery. And only sluggish 43kW max charging on an obsolete system. Madness. Will it appeal to any Irish buyers? Surely it won't, apart maybe from die hard Nissan Leaf fans who probably have already had both L24 and L40?

Swap to CCS and it will be the best BEV in market

catharsis · 08-06-2019 10:18am

Silent Running wrote: »

And what about the lack of battery thermal management?

Why is 200bhp a plus over the 204bhp Niro and Kona?

The Leaf 62 SVE is going to be at least €3,000 more than the Niro, going by recent reports. Internally, it's smaller than the Niro (open to correction on that one, but Niro feels a lot bigger). It has a marginally smaller battery than Niro, and the extra charging availability of CCS can't be just shrugged off. Ionity is no longer a pipe dream.

I can't understand why anyone would choose a L62 over a Niro 64. Except for blind brand loyalty.

hereby corrected :-)

https://insideevs.com/news/349925/nissan-leaf-trunk-space-kia-niro-ev/

Granted the Niro EV is the current range champion for mid-priced BEVs, and is a first-class EV that is tops in many respects, but the claim that the Niro has superior interior room over the LEAF Plus isn’t true. The Niro EV’s rear trunk (or boot in Europe) is significantly smaller than the LEAF’s, and isn’t all that efficient.

In fact, despite the fact that they share the same wheelbase, the LEAF Plus is superior to the Niro EV not only in length (176.4” vs. 172.3”), trunk capacity (23.6 cu. ft. vs. 18.5 cu. ft.), and total interior volume (116.o cu. ft. vs. 100.9 cu. ft.) but in the very important category of how many bodies can be stuffed in the trunk.

On the other hand I expect Niro to have significantly more range than Leaf+
Firstly the Niro drivetrain is more efficient, and in addition as I understand it the 62 number for the leaf is a gross number with usable capacity lower, while the 64 number for the Niro is a net number not including buffer.

Also, not for nothing, but you can actually purchase a Leaf, while you cannot purchase a Niro, so that is a pretty important basis for the decision.

I do not think Leaf vs Niro is the conversation, it's Leaf versus Kona versus Model 3, as the only 3 cars which are long range and can actually be purchased in the 40-50K category

(range below based upon real world experiences - Kona perhaps 250, model 3 190 and Leaf 220 Miles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIGLVY8Crvg & https://www.alexonautos.com/rangeexplained/)

Kona longer range (by far) than the other 2. Leaf second, and model 3 3rd
Leaf most practical/largest ,Model 3 second, Kona Smallest.
Kona best build quality, Leaf second, Model 3 3rd
Autonomous driving Model 3 first, LEAF Second Kona 3rd
(Subjectively) Model 3 best design, Kona second, Nissan last?
Price, Kona Cheapest, then Nissan, Then Model 3
Charging speed Tesla 1st, Kona Second, Leaf Last
Charging availability Tesla 1st, Kona Second, Leaf Last.

Anyone differ with any of the above?

Soarer · 08-06-2019 10:30am

Silent Running wrote: »

And what about the lack of battery thermal management?

Why is 200bhp a plus over the 204bhp Niro and Kona?

The Leaf 62 SVE is going to be at least €3,000 more than the Niro, going by recent reports. Internally, it's smaller than the Niro (open to correction on that one, but Niro feels a lot bigger). It has a marginally smaller battery than Niro, and the extra charging availability of CCS can't be just shrugged off. Ionity is no longer a pipe dream.

I can't understand why anyone would choose a L62 over a Niro 64. Except for blind brand loyalty.

Didn’t know about the bhp of the Niro or Kona. Haven’t been in the Niro, but the Kona definitely seems smaller.

Everything else you said makes perfect sense.

Old diesel · 08-06-2019 10:44am

Lack of active cooling is an issue yes.

However the very limited early info out there - I've only seen TWO reviews that looked at it - suggest that it's less of an issue then on the 40.

Time will tell - people ARE going to test it and the handy thing is that summer is here so we can establish issues via say the US quite quickly and in hot weather too.

Silent Running · 08-06-2019 11:48am

catharsis wrote: »

hereby corrected :-)

On the other hand I expect Niro to have significantly more range than Leaf+
Firstly the Niro drivetrain is more efficient, and in addition as I understand it the 62 number for the leaf is a gross number with usable capacity lower, while the 64 number for the Niro is a net number not including buffer.

Also, not for nothing, but you can actually purchase a Leaf, while you cannot purchase a Niro, so that is a pretty important basis for the decision.

I do not think Leaf vs Niro is the conversation, it's Leaf versus Kona versus Model 3, as the only 3 cars which are long range and can actually be purchased in the 40-50K category

(range below based upon real world experiences - Kona perhaps 250, model 3 190 and Leaf 220 Miles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIGLVY8Crvg & https://www.alexonautos.com/rangeexplained/)
Kona longer range (by far) than the other 2. Leaf second, and model 3 3rd

Leaf most practical/largest ,Model 3 second, Kona Smallest.

Kona best build quality, Leaf second, Model 3 3rd

Autonomous driving Model 3 first, LEAF Second Kona 3rd

(Subjectively) Model 3 best design, Kona second, Nissan last?

Price, Kona Cheapest, then Nissan, Then Model 3

Charging speed Tesla 1st, Kona Second, Leaf Last

Charging availability Tesla 1st, Kona Second, Leaf Last.

Anyone differ with any of the above?

Well, 2 weeks ago I decided to buy a Niro, I take delivery on July 1st. Clearly it could have been bought then. Could the L62?

Niro's boot space is a bit odd, the space under the boot floor is completely wasted and you can improve the capacity by 25% by removing a couple of pieces of plastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcDubf4S-4I For anyone that want's to watch a German guy over engineer it. :P

Niro is significantly bigger inside than the Kona: more rear legroom and a good size boot.

Any reports I've read point towards a lower and upper buffer in the battery.

Soarer wrote: »

Didn’t know about the bhp of the Niro or Kona. Haven’t been in the Niro, but the Kona definitely seems smaller.

As above, the Niro and Kona are definitely not the same size.

Old diesel wrote: »

Lack of active cooling is an issue yes.

However the very limited early info out there - I've only seen TWO reviews that looked at it - suggest that it's less of an issue then on the 40.

Time will tell - people ARE going to test it and the handy thing is that summer is here so we can establish issues via say the US quite quickly and in hot weather too.

The L62 has a simple fan as it's battery thermal management, much like the Ioniq. No battery heating for the Leaf.

The Niro has liquid cooling and heating. One is almost as important as the other when it comes to charge speed.

unkel · 09-06-2019 12:05am

Soarer wrote: »

You’re being a bit harsh there.
€42k is for the SVE model, which is hardly a wasteland. I’d much rather the SVE L62 to the similarly priced Kona/Niro EV.

For balance, it is also my opinion that the Kona and eNiro are overpriced, particularly the Kona. But these are thousands cheaper than the L62, have far more range (bigger battery and more efficient) and can charge twice as fast

Agree with samih. At €35k the L60 SVE would not be a bad choice for a lot of people today

the culture of deference · 09-06-2019 2:51pm

We have ordered the Leaf 3 62 in SVE + pro pilot.

We looked at Kona, Niro (terrible spec compared to SVE), we also looked at CHR sol and Rav 4 and UX200.

Nissan leaf in SVE with pro pilot has no competition at 40k mark

Soarer · 09-06-2019 3:08pm

the culture of deference wrote: »

We have ordered the Leaf 3 62 in SVE + pro pilot.

We looked at Kona, Niro (terrible spec compared to SVE), we also looked at CHR sol and Rav 4 and UX200.

Nissan leaf in SVE with pro pilot has no competition at 40k mark

What did you pay, if you don’t mind telling?

sk8board · 09-06-2019 6:13pm

the culture of deference wrote: »

We have ordered the Leaf 3 62 in SVE + pro pilot.

We looked at Kona, Niro (terrible spec compared to SVE), we also looked at CHR sol and Rav 4 and UX200.

Nissan leaf in SVE with pro pilot has no competition at 40k mark

As a 40+ grand Nissan hatchback it may not have any “EV competition”, but it has shedloads of competition for any low/mid mileage ICE drivers.
Absolutely shedloads.

ewj1978 · 10-06-2019 4:57pm

the culture of deference wrote: »

We have ordered the Leaf 3 62 in SVE + pro pilot.

We looked at Kona, Niro (terrible spec compared to SVE), we also looked at CHR sol and Rav 4 and UX200.

Nissan leaf in SVE with pro pilot has no competition at 40k mark

Soul EV?

Shefwedfan · 10-06-2019 5:01pm

Talked to someone in Nissan today, he mentioned about the new 60kWh Leaf...I mentioned 40k and the answer I got was "40k and the rest"

He said they are surprised at the cost of it but wouldn't tell me what the price was, they must have seen some sort of early release

Luckylow10 · 10-06-2019 6:20pm

Hi have a 40kw sv premium on the way. I spoke to dealer as maybe I go with the 60 instead and he said they are getting 60kw SVE spec only and will be 10 grand more.

Shefwedfan · 10-06-2019 6:55pm

Luckylow10 wrote: »

Hi have a 40kw sv premium on the way. I spoke to dealer as maybe I go with the 60 instead and he said they are getting 60kw SVE spec only and will be 10 grand more.

Guy I talked to mentioned SVE spec so that price would be in line with what he said.....so circa 42-43k....a better spec to the Kona but very expensive

the culture of deference · 10-06-2019 10:23pm

Soarer wrote: »

What did you pay, if you don’t mind telling?

No price's yet. (Pro park is €1200-1900 on top.)

Mike9832 · 10-06-2019 10:25pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Luckylow10 wrote: »

Hi have a 40kw sv premium on the way. I spoke to dealer as maybe I go with the 60 instead and he said they are getting 60kw SVE spec only and will be 10 grand more.

Guy I talked to mentioned SVE spec so that price would be in line with what he said.....so circa 42-43k....a better spec to the Kona but very expensive

Madness

So 52k without a grant lol ðŸ˜‚

Might as well buy a Tesla

Hell ICE looks attractive now

150bhp Highline Golf is like €27,000 with 0% interest and the new Honda Civic 180bhp high spec €28,000

Even a nice but boring Corolla Hybrid is less than €30,000

Soarer · 10-06-2019 10:39pm

There’s VRT paid in that isn’t there? It goes over the threshold.

unkel · 10-06-2019 10:41pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

Hell ICE looks attractive now

150bhp Highline Golf is like €27,000 with 0% interest and the new Honda Civic 180bhp high spec €28,000

Even a nice but boring Corolla Hybrid is less than €30,000

Don't lose the plot now Mike!

For less than any of those 3 you can buy Ioniq and it is quiker away from the lights than any of them. And you will save yourself a couple of hundred per month because of lower total cost of ownership. L40 is in the ballbark of those figures. Makes ICE look very unattractive.

But I agree €42k after €10k incentives is absurd for a L62

Jimmy Garlic · 10-06-2019 10:41pm

A state of the art diesel for 25k or a glorified golf cart that wouldn't make it from Cork to Dublin and back one one charge for 50k? Not a hard decision.

the culture of deference · 10-06-2019 10:51pm

Silent Running wrote: »

Why is 200bhp a plus over the 204bhp Niro and Kona?

The Leaf 62 SVE is going to be at least €3,000 more than the Niro, going by recent reports. Internally, it's smaller than the Niro (open to correction on that one, but Niro feels a lot bigger). It has a marginally smaller battery than Niro, and the extra charging availability of CCS can't be just shrugged off. Ionity is no longer a pipe dream.

I can't understand why anyone would choose a L62 over a Niro 64. Except for blind brand loyalty.

I looked at new cars in the 28k bracket before deciding on the leaf. Fuel costs me 4,000 a year. 4 years with a new 28k car will still cost me 44k.

I could keep the leaf 10 years and save the cost of fuel.

The leaf 3 is 160KW.

239 miles of range^*
217PS and 340Nm of torque

SVE spec has almost every extra.

Here is my spec list, compare it to the Kona and Niro.

ProPILOT Advanced Driver Assistance System*^
BOSE Premium Audio System with 7 Speakers
Part Leather Seats with Ultrasuede® trim***
Full LED Headlights with Auto Levelling and LED Foglights
Electronic Parking Brake
Intelligent Around View Monitor with Moving Object Detection and Front and Rear Parking Sensors**
Heat Pack, including Heated Seats and Heated Steering Wheel
e-Pedal**
Nissan Safety Shield including
Lane Departure Warning,
Intelligent Emergency Braking with Pedestrian Recognition,
Intelligent Lane Intervention,
Intelligent Cruise Control,
Rear Cross Traffic Alert,
High-Beam Assist**
NissanConnect Services 8" Touchscreen Navigation and Entertainment System,
Rear View Camera, front side cameras birds eye view,
Active Charging, Eco-Routing, Driving Range, Preset Air Conditioning, Nearby Charging Stations*
Apple CarPlay® and Android Auto® Smartphone App Integration*

I have not included Pro pilot park, is it an extra at 1200 ish.

Mike9832 · 10-06-2019 10:52pm

unkel wrote: »

Mike9832 wrote: »

Hell ICE looks attractive now

150bhp Highline Golf is like €27,000 with 0% interest and the new Honda Civic 180bhp high spec €28,000

Even a nice but boring Corolla Hybrid is less than €30,000

Don't lose the plot now Mike!

For less than any of those 3 you can buy Ioniq and it is quiker away from the lights than any of them. And you will save yourself a couple of hundred per month because of lower total cost of ownership. L40 is in the ballbark of those figures. Makes ICE look very unattractive.

But I agree €42k after €10k incentives is absurd for a L62

Would normally agree Unkel

The new 180bhp Civic is a great drive, you should try one, really nice machine and I have no interest in ICE

Not Type R quick, but it's got some shove high up

Might not beat an Ioniq from the lights, but leaves it for dead past 100

DrPhilG · 10-06-2019 10:53pm

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

A state of the art diesel for 25k or a glorified golf cart that wouldn't make it from Cork to Dublin and back one one charge for 50k? Not a hard decision.

*range below 260km
*costs €50k
*looks like a glorified golf cart

Could you enlighten me as to what EV you're referring to?

Mike9832 · 10-06-2019 10:57pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

A state of the art diesel for 25k or a glorified golf cart that wouldn't make it from Cork to Dublin and back one one charge for 50k? Not a hard decision.

*range below 260km
*costs €50k
*looks like a glorified golf cart

Could you enlighten me as to what EV you're referring to?

Not trolling

At 120 it would be tight enough to get 260km

Leaf is a dog on juice at 120 and only has 58kWh useable

Mike9832 · 10-06-2019 11:02pm

the culture of deference wrote: »

Silent Running wrote: »

Why is 200bhp a plus over the 204bhp Niro and Kona?

The Leaf 62 SVE is going to be at least €3,000 more than the Niro, going by recent reports. Internally, it's smaller than the Niro (open to correction on that one, but Niro feels a lot bigger). It has a marginally smaller battery than Niro, and the extra charging availability of CCS can't be just shrugged off. Ionity is no longer a pipe dream.

I can't understand why anyone would choose a L62 over a Niro 64. Except for blind brand loyalty.

I looked at new cars in the 28k bracket before deciding on the leaf. Fuel costs me 4,000 a year. 4 years with a new 28k car will still cost me 44k.

I could keep the leaf 10 years and save the cost of fuel.

The leaf 3 is 160KW.
239 miles of range^*

217PS and 340Nm of torque

SVE spec has almost every extra.

Here is my spec list, compare it to the Kona and Niro.

ProPILOT Advanced Driver Assistance System*^

BOSE Premium Audio System with 7 Speakers

Part Leather Seats with Ultrasuede® trim***

Full LED Headlights with Auto Levelling and LED Foglights

Electronic Parking Brake

Intelligent Around View Monitor with Moving Object Detection and Front and Rear Parking Sensors**

Heat Pack, including Heated Seats and Heated Steering Wheel

e-Pedal**

Nissan Safety Shield including

Lane Departure Warning,

Intelligent Emergency Braking with Pedestrian Recognition,

Intelligent Lane Intervention,

Intelligent Cruise Control,

Rear Cross Traffic Alert,

High-Beam Assist**

NissanConnect Services 8" Touchscreen Navigation and Entertainment System,

Rear View Camera, front side cameras birds eye view,

Active Charging, Eco-Routing, Driving Range, Preset Air Conditioning, Nearby Charging Stations*

Apple CarPlay® and Android Auto® Smartphone App Integration*

I have not included Pro pilot park, is it an extra at 1200 ish.

Drive 50k km a year?

DrPhilG · 10-06-2019 11:04pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

Not trolling

At 120 it would be tight enough to get 260km

Leaf is a dog on juice at 120 and only has 58kWh useable

But it doesn't cost €50k. It will cost low €40k after grants, so it doesn't cost €50k.

Mike9832 · 10-06-2019 11:05pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

Mike9832 wrote: »

Not trolling

At 120 it would be tight enough to get 260km

Leaf is a dog on juice at 120 and only has 58kWh useable

But it doesn't cost €50k. It will cost low €40k after grants, so it doesn't cost €50k.

But i didnt say it did

Kramer · 10-06-2019 11:07pm

It's getting ridiculous now.

Kona €40k
eNiro €40k
eSoul almost €40k
New Leaf €40k+
i3 over €40k
Base Model 3 - €49k
iPace - €80k
eTron - €90k

At this rate, the new (slow charging, still relatively short range) Ioniq will be easily €36k+.
Don't hold your breath either for a mid €20k, ID3 - VW aren't a charity

.

All these prices are after our €10k, taxpayer funded, subsidies :eek:.

Talk all you like about TCO, servicing costs, cheap running costs, fuel savings etc., lot of "savings" needed to fund €40k+ for what are, to all intents & purposes, economy cars from economy brands.

Probably 90% of people could commute/manage happily with a 200km range car, which heretofore were available for sub €30k.
That made sense.

The new entry into EV motoring is starting at €50k - less €10k of our taxes!
Makes no sense now, financially, for the vast majority.

Put some kms on a 330e last week & even that would make more sense than many EVs at these prices.
Nice car - thought it was heavy on rear tyres though

.

DrPhilG · 10-06-2019 11:08pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

But i didnt say it did

I didn't say you did. But what was the point of answering my question with the answer to a different one then?

Nissan Leaf 60kWh

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