Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Should sports incorporate avenues for non-gendered people?

2»

Comments

  • #52
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    astrofool wrote: »
    Smallest player in the NBA is current 5' 9" (175cm), which is about average height, sure the chances of making it are low, but it clearly is proven as possible.

    And it may be ‘possible’ for a woman to make the NBA aswell.


  • #53
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    Are you being deliberately dense?

    I am saying you can be born with genetics that determine you won’t play in the NBA no matter the hard work you put in. That’s seen as fair for men but the exact same argument is made for the separation of women’s sports.

    That is life some people are born with genetics that allow them to excel at physical activities and competitive sports while others aren't and can never compete at an elite level which is fair because they will never be good enough to compete at that level.

    The same is true for women if they tried to compete in men's competitions. Most women are physically inferior to men and therefore cannot compete with men at the same level because they are not capable of reaching the same level that male competitors can reach.


  • #54
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    That is life some people are born with genetics that allow them to excel at physical activities and competitive sports while others aren't and can never compete at an elite level which is fair because they will never be good enough to compete at that level.

    The same is true for women if they tried to compete in men's competitions. Most women are physically inferior to men and therefore cannot compete with men at the same level because they are not capable of reaching the same level that male competitors can reach.
    Exactly! So why are women given the luxury of competing against less physically capable athletes yet weak little men aren’t ?


  • #55
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,348 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    So for example you would have men’s soccer, ladies soccer and then non-gendered soccer for those who do not identify as a gender.

    Everyone talks about equality but this issue is being ignored?

    So, for a this time, what's your opinion on this?


  • #56
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    Exactly! So why are women given the luxury of competing against less physically capable athletes yet weak little men aren’t ?

    What do you mean by the luxury of competing against less physically capable athletes?

    There is always going to more talented people, less talented people and a group of people in the middle. If that wasn't the case then why bother having competitions? It would always end in a draw or a stalemate because everyone would be equally talented.

    But we know that this is not true in reality because everyone is different and everyone has a different amount of talent and ability that will determine if they succeed or fail in any given competition.

    As for your weak little men comment you could sign yourself up for a marathon and go out and compete as a "weak little man" in comparison to the elite level marathon runners. Nothing is stopping "weak little men" from competing just don't expect them to win anything.


  • #57
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    What do you mean by the luxury of competing against less physically capable athletes?

    There is always going to more talented people, less talented people and a group of people in the middle. If that wasn't the case then why bother having competitions? It would always end in a draw or a stalemate because everyone would be equally talented.

    But we know that this is not true in reality because everyone is different and everyone has a different amount of talent and ability that will determine if they succeed or fail in any given competition.

    As for your weak little men comment you could sign yourself up for a marathon and go out and compete as a "weak little man" in comparison to the elite level marathon runners. Nothing is stopping "weak little men" from competing just don't expect them to win anything.

    So what is your basis on separating men and female sports?


  • #58
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    So what is your basis on separating men and female sports?

    Genetics


  • #59
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    No. There is no such thing as non gendered people. There are men and women. Men is the real event. Women's events are limited field events, like handicapped ones, for those who still like to compete in a limited field of human beings, but cant really compete with men. Non-gender is just a crazy idea of our time that will fade away. If their really is a group who dont want to participate in the mens, or womens events, then that can form another subset of the special sports field in its various divisions.


  • #60
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    My point was that me being too small to play in the NBA is the same as a woman being to weak for men’s sports.

    You implied that I should be able to make up for my physical deficiencies through talent. Why can’t the same logic be applied to women?

    You're not too small. You're not a good enough player


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    Atoms for Peace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    You'd think in the post religious era we now live that science would prevail, but no, now personal feelings are what comes first and crackpot ideas are spread like viruses through social media.


  • #62
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    Atoms for Peace wrote: »
    You'd think in the post religious era we now live that science would prevail, but no, now personal feelings are what comes first and crackpot ideas are spread like viruses through social media.

    The good thing is that facts don't care about people's feelings and those people simply can't handle the truth.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMzd40i8TfA


  • #63
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Another world war would nip this nonsense in the bud


  • #64
    salmocab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,409 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    I know this was only started just for the argument but if there were enough people that identified as non gender to start sports teams and had enough other people to start opposition then sporting bodies would be all over it. A big thing these days is inclusion in sport. The reality is the amount of people who identify as such is very small and the chances of many of those being interested in playing cricket is minuscule so there is unlikely to be any reason for world cricket to want to waste valuable resources on something that would never get going due to lack of interest.


  • #65
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,275 ✭✭✭Your Face


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    So for example you would have men’s soccer, ladies soccer and then non-gendered soccer for those who do not identify as a gender.

    Everyone talks about equality but this issue is being ignored?

    It's not being pursued because there is unlikely any money in it.
    Look how long it took Rugby Union to become a professional game and thats a relatively popular game.


  • #66
    TCM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 736 ✭✭✭TCM


    There is simply no such thing as a "non gendered" human being.


  • Advertisement
  • #67
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    Genetics

    That’s an idiotic statement that ignores my point.

    My point is that less genetically gifted men aren’t given easier opposition so why should women be?


  • #68
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,084 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    salmocab wrote: »
    If there are enough non gender people available to play in sustainable tournaments or competitions then they should lobby to have them set up, I’d be confident there isn’t.

    No, it's not someone else's job to set them up.

    If intersex or trans people want a sports league, then they can set it up for themselves. They may want to affiliate with an existing organisation - but the bottom line is that if you want a tournament or whatever, you need to do the (considerable) work to make it happen. It's not Mr, Ms or Mx Somebody-Else's job to set it up for you.



    TCM wrote: »
    There is simply no such thing as a "non gendered" human being.

    Yeah, but there are a small number who are gender-disordered: they have one set of chromosomes (or even worse some kind of mix... not sure if that's possible!), and a set of body parts and/or deep-seated preferences which don't match those chromosomes.

    And there are a very few people who never develop secondary sexual characteristics, so it can be very hard for an observer to know which gender they identify with.


  • #69
    Omackeral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    My point is that less genetically gifted men aren’t given easier opposition so why should women be?

    Suck it up, Shorty. That's how it is. Go be a jockey or something and stop your crying.


  • #70
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Suck it up, Shorty. That's how it is. Go be a jockey or something and stop your crying.

    I agree it’s tough luck if you’re born with bad genetics.

    In fact I agree with it so much I think women and men shouldn’t be separated in sports.


  • #71
    HappyAsLarE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭HappyAsLarE


    What dafuq is “non-gendered”?

    Doesn’t sound like something I will come across in the real world.


  • Advertisement
  • #72
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    That’s an idiotic statement that ignores my point.

    My point is that less genetically gifted men aren’t given easier opposition so why should women be?

    You asked for an answer and you got one.

    My point is that men and women can't compete together because it would be a pointless endeavour in which the men would win 99.9% of the time.

    Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?


  • #73
    Omackeral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    In fact I agree with it so much I think women and men shouldn’t be separated in sports.

    Well that's just not gonna work at all. USA Women's National Soccer team, considered to be among the best in the world, were slaughtered by an Under 15 team of boys from Dallas. That's children beating elite female pros. The Aussie Women's team were hammered 7-0 by an Under 15 boys team also. Doesn't work.

    Then there's the Battle of the Sexes which saw a journeyman tennis player Karsten Braach ranked in the 200's beat both Williams sisters with ease.


  • #74
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Well that's just not gonna work at all. USA Women's National Soccer team, considered to be among the best in the world, were slaughtered by an Under 15 team of boys from Dallas. That's children beating elite female pros. The Aussie Women's team were hammered 7-0 by an Under 15 boys team also. Doesn't work.

    Then there's the Battle of the Sexes which saw a journeyman tennis player Karsten Braach ranked in the 200's beat both Williams sisters with ease.

    Yeah but if under 15 boys played a group of slow, prone to obesity non-coordinated men then the result could be the same.

    Yet those men aren’t separated.


  • #75
    Omackeral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    Yeah but if under 15 boys played a group of slow, prone to obesity non-coordinated men then the result could be the same.

    Yet those men aren’t separated.

    They are, by things called divisions. Here's the thing, the best players generally play at the top level. That's why Divisions exist. It's kinda self explanatory... to most people.


  • #76
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    Omackeral wrote: »
    They are, by things called divisions. Here's the thing, the best players generally play at the top level. That's why Divisions exist. It's kinda self explanatory... to most people.

    Exactly so why aren’t women just put in a lower division rather than a completely different category?


  • #77
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,901 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »

    If intersex...person...






    .

    What is an "intersex person"?


  • #78
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    What is an "intersex person"?

    Someone who is in ter sex.


  • #79
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    Exactly so why aren’t women just put in a lower division rather than a completely different category?

    Because that would be idiotic.

    What division would you suggest they get put in?
    And who would make that decision?

    Men and women have always competed separately in almost every sport in modern history.

    Why should we change it now?


  • #80
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    Because that would be idiotic.

    What division would you suggest they get put in?
    And who would make that decision?

    Men and women have always competed separately in almost every sport in modern history.

    Why should we change it now?

    So your answer is it’s always been done that way.

    Nice.


  • #81
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    So your answer is it’s always been done that way.

    Nice.

    Indeed and you can't provide a sensible reason as to why we should change it so I think most people know who is right and who is wrong in this situation.


  • Advertisement
  • #82
    HappyAsLarE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭HappyAsLarE


    Ever get the feeling that the person demanding explanations won’t accept what they are being told?


  • #83
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    HappyAsLarE wrote: »
    Ever get the feeling that the person demanding explanations won’t accept what they are being told?

    Whatever do you mean?

    Every poster in this thread has been of a sound, rational, and reasonable mind and can understand why men and women can't compete together..........................
    Oh wait never mind!


  • #84
    LillySV
    Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭LillySV


    Hey look at me, I’m pc....


    If you want true equality... then every sex/gender/class should play in the same grouping in every sport

    So all sexes in same hurling championship

    All sexes in same football championship

    Etc etc

    After all everyone’s equal


  • #85
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,929 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    HappyAsLarE wrote: »
    What dafuq is “non-gendered”?

    Doesn’t sound like something I will come across in the real world.

    Unfortunately it's likely that you will as this Americanised identity politics and virtue-signalling nonsense continues to be imported whiolesale into Irish culture and society, apparently without any sort of checks as to its validity or relevance.

    Because, although there are many like those on this thread who will call out this shyte for what it is, there is an increasing segment of society that actually believe it - reference this guy's description of his daughter in another thread here ... this is the future folks.

    Anyway, on the OP's question, for what it's worth:

    - No
    - There are 2 genders. You're one or the other
    - Certainly you can identify with the opposite gender or none, but this doesn't trump or negate fundamental biology, nor does it invalidate other's right to disagree with you
    - Identity politics/virtue signalling doesn't trump or negate reality either for that matter.


  • #86
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Unfortunately it's likely that you will as this Americanised identity politics and virtue-signalling nonsense continues to be imported whiolesale into Irish culture and society, apparently without any sort of checks as to its validity or relevance.

    Because, although there are many like those on this thread who will call out this shyte for what it is, there is an increasing segment of society that actually believe it - reference this guy's description of his daughter in another thread here ... this is the future folks.

    Anyway, on the OP's question, for what it's worth:

    - No
    - There are 2 genders. You're one or the other
    - Certainly you can identify with the opposite gender or none, but this doesn't trump or negate fundamental biology
    - Identity politics/virtue signalling doesn't trump or negate reality either for that matter.
    You’re a bigot and you deserve a ban.


  • #87
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,929 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    You’re a bigot and you deserve a ban.

    Ah yes, name-calling and "triggered" buzzwords - always the sign of someone with no real argument beyond a one-liner


  • #88
    Panthro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,824 ✭✭✭✭Panthro


    I am the non gender heavyweight champion of the world.


  • #89
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    You’re a bigot and you deserve a ban.

    He's simply stating facts and disagreeing with you and because of that he's a bigot and should be banned.

    That's a great idea censor any views that you oppose instead of debating the topic and coming out of the debate more informed about the topic.


  • #90
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,929 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    He's simply stating facts and disagreeing with you and because of that he's a bigot and should be banned.

    That's a great idea censor any views that you oppose instead of debating the topic and coming out of the debate more informed about the topic.

    Unfortunately that's what passes for "debate" these days among such people..

    - Make statement, expecting universal support and validation, with little or no (valid) supporting evidence
    - Ignore, attack or ridicule any dissenting views or (actual) evidence to the contrary
    - Bonus points for any "-ist", "-phobe" or other such term you can work in.

    :rolleyes:


  • Advertisement
  • #91
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Unfortunately that's what passes for "debate" these days among such people..

    - Make statement, expecting universal support and validation, with little or no (valid) supporting evidence
    - Ignore, attack or ridicule any dissenting views or (actual) evidence to the contrary
    - Bonus points for any "-ist", "-phobe" or other such term you can work in.

    :rolleyes:

    Unfortunately I think it's only going to get worse, identity politics is being used as a weapon to divide and conquer. Anyone that doesn't agree with their view is as you said some kind of "-ist" or "-phobe" and anyone that speaks out is immediately attacked much like you on this thread but on a much bigger scale in society and on social media.


  • #92
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    Mod-wobatkicker23 as per the message I sent you, do not post in thread again. If you can't play nice then don't play at all.


  • #93
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Yes, but only for Beach Volleyball. In fact all other sports are probably a waste of time. Unisex Beach Volleyball needs to be made compulsory.


  • #94
    astrofool
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Without gendered sports we'd basically have 0 women competing in sports.


  • #95
    Rothko
    Registered Users Posts: 12,904 ✭✭✭✭Rothko


    HappyAsLarE wrote: »
    Ever get the feeling that the person demanding explanations won’t accept what they are being told?

    He's just a troll


Advertisement