Beginner to Genealogy

DaveCol · 14-10-2010 5:23pm #1

Hi all,

I am usually on the Classic Car Forum, and have found this to be a very useful and interesting forum.
I have become interested in this since the release of the 1911 census, and have done various traces as mentioned here such as the LDS sites etc, and have traced family back to the 1862 Thom's Directory to Dorset Street where they had a bakery. Before that they came from Meath, but I haven't really got that far yet.

Just out of curiosity does anyone know when Richmond Place became part of the North Circular Road and where did it start and end?

Also, where was Charleville Terrace, listed on the 1911 census as being off NCR?

And where was Anna Villa on the NCR?

DaveCol · 14-10-2010 5:28pm

Also, I saw a reference in a book recently to the Shaws Directory having pictures of street elevations, has anyone looked this up? I have found a couple of Libraries that show their online catalogues have the reprinted copy in stock

pinkypinky · 14-10-2010 5:45pm

I can't answer your questions about the NCR but I do have access to reprint of the Shaw's Dublin directory. It does have street elevations but from memory just for the important streets. Have a read of our stickies to get some more general advice if you need it. Thoms directory may have the answer to your NCR question or Shane

who will re-appear at some point!

shanew · 14-10-2010 7:18pm

Anna ville was to the east of the NCR junction with Phibsboro Rd and just opposite St. Peters Church, at the Y junction between the NCR and Cabra road.

see : http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,714762,735844,7
(press 8 to see the 1890s 25" map)

Will look for the other places mentioned..

Shane

shanew · 14-10-2010 7:26pm

Charleville Terrace was part of NCR and a terrace of houses on the north side of the road and to the west of the Cabra Rd junction. It was split in two by Charleville Road junction.

see : http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,714361,735704,7
(see centre of map - press 8 to see the 1890s map)

p.s. the terraces are visible on google streetview ... and look to be the original c1880 structures

Shane

shanew · 14-10-2010 7:44pm

what year is the Richmond Place reference ?

In 1904 I see two - one off Richmond Street South (near to Portobello), and the other off Summerhill.

The 1914 edition of Thom's show an additional listing for the name in Rathmines.

Shane

shanew · 14-10-2010 8:40pm

The street which continues NCR to the east is labelled Richmond Place on the 1890s map.
see : http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,716369,735603,7

It started near the jct with Gt. Charles St and continued east to Summerhill

It's also labelled as Richmond place in 1912, so must have officially become part of NCR sometime after that - see http://roots.swilson.info/dublin1912/dublin1912.html

Shane

DaveCol · 14-10-2010 11:25pm

Thanks Shane.

The Anna Ville and Charleville Terrace locations are interesting - separate branches of the extended family lived in both at the same time and only down the road from each other

The Richmond Place location is also interesting. The 1901 census shows my Dad's Grandfather, Wife and Family living on one side of the road and his parents and brothers living on what looks like the other side of the road

I have plenty of other questions, so will be back!

hblock21 · 15-10-2010 10:13am

Just wondering (sorry for hijacking the thread!), when approaching someone through a letter, asking if they know anything about their family history, what do people here find is the best way to go about it?

I have recently written to people that I know who are related to me (as they live in the area my ancestors came from and have the surname!). I have included in the letter what I know of that branch, names, date and places, basicly giving as much information as possible but leaving out abit (I've only recently started researching so hence know very little). I then sign off by asking if they know anything about their roots and that I'd be very appreciative for any info, etc, etc.

shanew · 15-10-2010 10:41am

hblock21,

A letter is not something I've tried, but a polite, not too complicated, introduction is probably the best way to go. Many people would be interested in links to their ancestors, but it's possible they know less about their family history than you do.

Remember the same surname is no guarantee that they link to your line - they could have moved to your area of interest more recently. It might be an idea to try to research the links a bit further forward from the lines you have through birth and marriages to establish a more detailed connection.

Shane

shanew · 15-10-2010 11:09am

DaveCol wrote: »

Thanks Shane.

.....
The Richmond Place location is also interesting. The 1901 census shows my Dad's Grandfather, Wife and Family living on one side of the road and his parents and brothers living on what looks like the other side of the road
....

in case it's of interest...Thom's 1904 shows Richmond Place as from Margaret Lane to Summer-hill, Civil Parish : St. George, Ward : Mountjoy. Numbers 1 to 27 are along the north side of the street with 28 to 53 along the southside.

I have the names of the main householders, and some occupations/trades at that time if that's of interest...

Shane

hblock21 · 15-10-2010 11:27am

shanew wrote: »

hblock21,

A letter is not something I've tried, but a polite, not too complicated, introduction is probably the best way to go. Many people would be interested in links to their ancestors, but it's possible they know less about their family history than you do.

Remember the same surname is no guarantee that they link to your line - they could have moved to your area of interest more recently. It might be an idea to try to research the links a bit further forward from the lines you have through birth and marriages to establish a more detailed connection.

Shane

I got a reply this morning from one person through email. She gave me loads of info! I got one of my great granduncles branch, cost me 55 cent! I would never have pieced together what she gave me without spending a few hundred euro. She seams like a person who I could get even more info from with the right questions. I can now give her what info I held back on and continue from there.

I had nothing to lose by sending the letters. I'm delighted now!

DaveCol · 15-10-2010 11:45am

shanew wrote: »

in case it's of interest...Thom's 1904 shows Richmond Place as from Margaret Lane to Summer-hill, Civil Parish : St. George, Ward : Mountjoy. Numbers 1 to 27 are along the north side of the street with 28 to 53 along the southside.

I have the names of the main householders, and some occupations/trades at that time if that's of interest...

Shane

Shane,

That would be great. The surname is Coleman and they lived at No.6 and No.44 on the 1901 Census, although the family in No.6 may have moved to Clonliffe Road by then

pinkypinky · 15-10-2010 11:55am

hblock21 wrote: »

I got a reply this morning from one person through email. She gave me loads of info! I got one of my great granduncles branch, cost me 55 cent! I would never have pieced together what she gave me without spending a few hundred euro. She seams like a person who I could get even more info from with the right questions. I can now give her what info I held back on and continue from there.

I had nothing to lose by sending the letters. I'm delighted now!

That is a great success. I've done it a few times by letter and I always go for a gentle approach - who I am, briefly how I think we're related and my contact details for them to get in touch if they want.

I wonder if one of the mods could split out Hblock21's question and the answers, since other people might be interested but they'll never find it in this thread>

shanew · 15-10-2010 2:49pm

hblock21 wrote: »

I got a reply this morning from one person through email. She gave me loads of info! I got one of my great granduncles branch, cost me 55 cent! I would never have pieced together what she gave me without spending a few hundred euro. She seams like a person who I could get even more info from with the right questions. I can now give her what info I held back on and continue from there.

I had nothing to lose by sending the letters. I'm delighted now!

well done!... definitely worth the 55c investment

p.s. agree with pinkypinky about moving this sub-thread to a new separate thread.

Shane

shanew · 15-10-2010 3:27pm

DaveCol wrote: »

Shane,

That would be great. The surname is Coleman and they lived at No.6 and No.44 on the 1901 Census, although the family in No.6 may have moved to Clonliffe Road by then

1904 - Richmond Place

6 - Mr. Denis Byrne
44 - Henry Duff, painting contractor

one thing to watch out for on the census (especially 1901) is that the numbers used are not necessarily the street numbers as used for post etc. To check look at the reverse of the household form to see the actual street number, rather than the site number. The number do seem to match in this case.

Looking at the census summary for the street, a number of the addresses are shared. For these only the primary householder or owner is usually listed in the directories.

There's no sign of family in 1894.. but some people did move around quite a bit.

Richmond Place
6 - Mrs. Winifred Ennis
44 - Mrs. Mary Murhpy

Shane

DaveCol · 15-10-2010 4:00pm

Thanks Shane, they must all have moved by 1904 then.

Just out of interest, do you have access to a Directory for 1894?
They were living at 125 Upper Dorset St in the 1860's, so maybe they were still there in 1894?

shanew · 15-10-2010 5:13pm

Thom's 1848

125 Upr Dorset St
Thomas Bumford - shoemaker
Joseph Mehain - hairdresser

Just the hairdresser appears at the address in 1852.

Thom's 1863

125 Upr Dorset St
John Coleman - baker
The address is located between the jct's with King's Lane (124)
and Branagan's Court (127)

Thom's 1868

125 Upr Dorset St - tenements (so no details given)

Thom's 1872

125 Upr Dorset St
Michael Losty - chandler & tobaconist

I dont see any Coleman bakers in the trades index in 1868 or 1872, but these doesn't always include everyone included in the street listings.

Thom's 1879

125 Upr Dorset St
Michael Losty - chandler & tobaconist
John Chapman - stone & marble works

I didnt follow forward as far as 1894, since the family or business seem to have moved elsewhere well before then..

Shane

DaveCol · 15-10-2010 11:25pm

Thanks Shane. Excellent info

DaveCol · 25-10-2010 12:48am

I went back through some of the links in the sticky at the top (Thanks Pinky!) and made a few interesting discoveries. I reckoned when I looked before I didn't really know the relevance of what I found wheras now it makes more sense.

I found the wedding of John Coleman in 1860 on one site.
Also listed was the wedding of a Thomas Coleman in 1858.
What struck me was they both had the same address - 37 Aungier Street
A check on Thoms 1962 Directory gives the address as:

37 & 38 O'Callaghan, J. M. baker and flour mer. 152 Capel-st. 13 William-
st. 16 Merrion-row, 39 Henry-st. 9 Christchurch-place, 55 Grafton-st., 16 Arran-quay, 13 George's-street, Kingstown, 88 Gt. Britain-street, Main-street, Blackrock, and 55 Thomas-street,

John Coleman I knew was a baker, Thomas must have been a brother and the 1901 census gives his occupation as baker as well! Also, Thomas is a name that was repeated in the family (as was John). There was also another brother, Mathew (one t, name also repeats) who I had found before and was also a baker.

I also re-checked Griffiths Valuation for Duleek in Meath where the names Matthew and John Coleman are listed as landholders, although I am guessing at this stage it was their fathers as the men above would seem very young to have been landholders? John was born in 1830, Thomas in 1835 and Mathew in 1840

shanew · 25-10-2010 10:13am

The date for Giffiith's valuation for much of Co. Meath is 1854 - so I'd agree probably a bit early to include for John, Thomas & Matthew. If the eldest (John) had been married at the time he may have lived away from the family home.. and be included separately in the valuation

Shane

DaveCol · 09-12-2010 2:20pm

Shane,

I have discovered they may have been living at 61 Lower Clanbrassil Street in 1865. Does that show up in any of your Directories?

shanew · 09-12-2010 7:16pm

I dont have a 1865 directory. The two closest dates I have are 1863 and 1868... we located Colemans at a Dorset St address in 1863.

1863 :

61 Lwr Clanbrassil Street
Thos. Brennan, house painter

1868 :

60 to 64 Lwr Clanbrassil Street,
Tenements

Shane

DaveCol · 10-12-2010 12:36am

Ok, Thanks

shanew · 10-12-2010 9:54am

forgot to mention...the date of the directories is usually the year of publication, and since they took a while to compile (sometimes a year or more) the details can sometimes be a little out of date by the time they are published.

I dont know if it was already mentioned, but it would be worth checking the Dublin City parish records for details on the family on www.irishgenealogy.ie (more Dublin City RC records are due to be added early next year)

Shane

DaveCol · 10-12-2010 2:23pm

I found marriage records for John and Thomas on irishgenealogy in 1858 and 1860. Strangely these don't show up on the lds sites

shanew · 10-12-2010 2:41pm

Full civil registration started in 1864 - so if those were Catholic marriages they would not appear in the civil records.

Shane

Beginner to Genealogy

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