Is there a point to making children learn irish in school anymore?

Níl sa saol seo ach ceo is ní bheimíd beo ach seal beag gearr.
->Life's a b*tch and then you die.

Just some short points
I didn't do irish for my leaving
I was exempt from it.
I believe everyone should be able to choose to do irish or not... having it on a voluntary basis after the Junior Cert(like me) would be excellent
MAybe the Minister can include this in their planned Educational reform.... Yes i also agree that Ireland is crap when it comes to languages.... it isn't just learning Continental languages from Primary. But we need a more "English as a foreign Language"
approach when it comes to learning languges in this country... Perhaps a more hardcore move... all Primary teachers r ment to be Fluent speckers of Irish... how about all Primary schools be made Irish specking... This would definitly get the languge into Everyone as i know that the French schools(here in éire) do this for the French language(its a better example than Irish schools)....
Irish has to be used on everything Public... All things like Milk cartins should be named Báinne, etc etc... we should be able to use large amounts of irish in everyday life(not just specking it)... perhaps these measures would help but some how i see those Fluent Irish specking Primary teachers going on strike...

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The purpose of a language is to be a communication tool. Languages are not designed with saving a cultural heritage in mind. Is it any wonder that the Irish language is failing in this regard?

We have to disentangle the notions of our culture, our heritage and our national language, despite what has been ingrained into us from birth. We must unlearn what we have learned.

We have a culture to be proud of, and a heritage that most other countries envy, but this language thing - let it go.

I believe that Irish should be taught on the same basis as any other foreign language at schools. Because, let's face it, it is a foreign language.

This is not supposed to be hurtful to anyone, it's just the way I see it.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
you're not Irish--you're Anglo-Irish.
</font>

Only if you define "Anglo-Irish" as someone who is Irish but chooses to speak English. If that is your chosen definition, then fine.

In my little world, however, having been born in Ireland, raised in Ireland, by Irish parents, and having been involved in the promotion of Ireland as a modern self-defining nation at various different levels (political, artistic, etc.) would have been enough to count me as Irish.

Again, you are not alone in your error. A language does not define a heritage. A language is a means of communication.

"Again, you are not alone in your error. A language does not define a heritage. A language is a means of communication."

Ach cad é a chuirtear in iúl?
But what does a language communicate?

Languages (all languages) communicate much more than concrete thoughts and ideas (e.g., the sky is blue, etc.) Languages also communicate a person's belonging to a particular group or culture and in that sense, they DO manifest particular cultural heritages.

Consider the following:
--My goodness, chap! That's dreadful!
--Hey man! That's a bummer!
--Yo, homie! That's whack!

In all of these examples, all of them English (of a sort), the same basic concept is being communicated. But, the particular dialect colors the expression and places it in a cultural context. If that is true for dialects of a single language, it's even more so between languages.

As a speaker of English born and raised in Ireland, your language and all of the associated values and perceptions that come with it, marks you as belonging to a particular culture--as well as your geneology, geography, etc.

We can argue about what the best label for that culture is--Irish, Anglo-Irish, etc.--but the point is that this culture is different than the "Irish" culture that proceeded it and, yet, lives along side of it. In my opinion, those who are bilingual can more fully participate in Ireland's cultural heritage.

Of course this should be a choice but I don't understand why any self-respecting Irish person would not want to embrace it.

Increasingly, monolingual speakers of English belong more to a common, international, pop-consumer culture--a culture foisted upon the world by us Americans. It's fun. It's modern. But it lacks substance.

If Ireland chooses to go the way of the Yanks (and it seems like they're determined to do so), I have no doubt that the Irish will profit for it. There is also much to be lost.

Is mise, le meas,
Poncán eile

I can speak Irish to 'bate the band', so I think I am party to any influences that are suppposed to be dragged along with that.

I'm sure that your argument is a valid one, and I accept that a language makes up a part of the heritage of any place. But none of that contends my main idea that a language does not define a heritage, which is a mistake that people make. They assume that we cannot be inherently Irish without some native tongue.

I would like to think that the Irish nation has moved beyond defining itself in terms of what it isn't, and by employing a code language to render ourselves even further apart those very elements who would seek to destroy us.

This is our time, and I feel we should move forward with an inclusive attitude. The foisting of the language can serve no real purpose except to recall a time when people actually did use the language, a time of hate and blood.

Is there some way to look forward with the Irish language? Is there some sense of hope that, eventually, people will 'see the light' and start spontaneously speaking the old mother language? Why would they? Why would anyone bother? We already have a perfectly serviceable language. I'll admit that its adoption by our people happened under less than ideal circumstances, but we cannot keep recursing to past injustices to render our current mistakes justifiable.

We live in a modern Ireland. People can speak Irish if they want - why not? But to claim any negative connotations from choosing not to, or to assume that having opinions vehemently opposed to its compulsory teaching is necessarily pejorative is to deny this country its birthright.

Sorry about the long sentences.

I think people should learn irish [so it will not die out, it is part of our heratage after all] but only to jr. cert then made to non compusary.
I will not be doing Irish in any exams as i am exempt for it, i think that i may look back and wish i had been able to learn it, and like the french and alot of countrys in the world take pride in being able to speak the toung of there own country. Most kids wil say that they h8 irish, but someday they will be gald of being able to speak at least a few words of there home toung, someting i will not, regratably, be able to do. So people at least try at the subject, u will mostlikey be glad u know some of it.
Also its is not an "Irish is cool, so learn it kids !" reply

Also Gróibhear,
So what you are saying is that becuase i cant speak irish, i am not irish.
Well seen as i cant speak irish due to having a learning disablity,Dislexia, i an not, irish, And that any one who is exempt for irish due to learning disablitys are not irish. While it like saying because u are Jewish u are not Irish, or because u are not Asian u are not Chianise [sorry for the spelling of Chianise, i am dislexic].
U could be called raceist for say the above, but not of saying that i cant speak irish there for i am not irish, but u dont know WHY i cant speak irish so with all do respect, ****ing think abit be for u start saying that people are not irish it is REALY offenive.

The Point to Making Children Learn Irish in School:

Ok! Enough about culture and identity! Who cares, right? You are who you are and maybe you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

What most of us seem to agree on is the importance of choice and self-determination. And compelling children to learn a dying language is contrary to that principle, right?

Wrong.

In fact, the best justification to continue with compulsory Irish-language policies is precisely to support the idea of "choice."

Start with the following assumption:

People who wish to learn and to use Irish in their daily lives should have the right to do so.

Besides being democratic, this principle is supported by the Eureopean Charter for Regional or Minority Languages, which has been ratified not only by the Republic of Ireland but by the United Kingdom as well.

Unless I'm mistaken, the pending Language Bill that has been drafted by the Department of Arts, Heritage, Islands and the Gaeltacht would specify that Irish-language users have a right to obtain services in Irish from the State (or at least from certain departments).

Subsequently, the State would require an adequate pool of civil servants who are fluent in Irish to provide these services, translate official state documents, etc. This is not a choice. This is an obligation on the part of the government.

Thus, the State not only would have a valid interest in promoting Irish-language education but they have a duty to do so, as a signatory to the European charter. Just as the state has an interest in promoting math and sciences in order to produce techically skilled graduates, a compulsory langauge policy is necessary to produce an adequate pool of prospective civil servants.

As citizens, you have the right to throw aside the langauge if you choose to do so, unless your working as a civil servant and you're called up to provide services in Irish--then it's part of your job. However, as citizens, you also have certain duties to the state which are part of the reciprocal social contract.

Finally, if you want to be good Europeans, then you're honor-bound to acknowledge the conventions of Europe, which include minority language rights.

And, if you don't want to be good Europeans, then clearly there's something wrong with you!

Ok your still a little ****ed up in that i was also talking about culture as well adn being "Irish". My Mother is Irish and my Father is English, I am Irish, i live in Ireland, i respect the culture and i have inheated the culture form my morther and her famly. i am NOT Engilsh because i have never lived or considerd there culture to me my culture and heratage, im irish, its on my berth cert and its on my passport, but most of all its in ME, and its not for u to deside about weather or not it is my heatage. So plz just drop it. And also i noticed u have not rely sayed aay thing about what i was saying, because i can not speek irish due to a learning disablity that makes me "Anglo-Irish"? Because if thats true i think there are alot of "Anglo-Irish" people who would not see your "great Vision"

If you abandon Irish your children will certainly blame you for the death of the language.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">...Groibhear on the other hand, is not Irish.</font>

I never claimed to be.

B'fhéidir gurb' fhearr é "garránach"?

I think it's important that kids talk about why they don't like Irish, and why they don't want to learn it.

I like Irish, and would happily speak it to anyone who'd like to speak to me (unless they correct me, in which case I will kill them and put their body in a suitcase, with "sin tusa leat" scrawled on the outside).

But it's obvious I'm in a minority, and I'd like to know why. There must be a reason for the great dislike kids have for Irish, and for learning it, and until this is acknowledged and examined, and the reasons for it are understood, Irish hasn't a chance.

Funny thing is, if you look back to the 1960s you'll find the same debate going on - about Latin. And of course Latin disappeared from the curriculum, and now there are kids saying thay'd love to learn it. O tempora, o mores.

Tá go maith, feicim go bhfuil orm rud an-shimpli a rá, míniú beag.
OK, I see I have to say something very simple, a little explanation
focail as Gaeilge:
Éireannach - a citizen of Poblacht na hÉireann. So, a catholic Irish speaking person in Northern Irealnd is not Éireannach (although some of them are working on it...) Ar an láimh eile, only English speaking amadáin in the republic are! Nach ionatch é sin?
Gaelach - a true Irishman, Irish speaking, native to the island of Ireland, be his/her mother or father penguins or Marsians. Mar sin, na stóiriní, ní sibh Gaelaigh ar chor ar bith, náire an domhain oraibhse.
Gaeilgeoir - an Irish speaking person anywhere on the globe, penguins included.

So, in my humble foreign opinion, if you had the first thing with you about your culture, you would not dare say that Gaeilge is not to be obligatory in schools there, no matter how unimportant in your life, however close to extinction she may be. The only thing you have to do is to open your mouths and say cupla focail gach lá to anybody around you, I mean, if YOU do it, it has to be fashionable enough. This way, all your lip service just goes on to say how little you care, and me, as a foreigner, can ask you, if you care so little for your treasure, your own ex-language, how on earth do you expect me to believe that you can truly care for anybody else. If you don't, b'fhéidir gur fearr leat buail an bothar, a mhic, agus téigh ar áit an mbonn go Meiricea sabhair, saol álainn is ea é ansiúd, agus do thír chaite fós i bhfuil agus fuath agus Béarla priomhtheanga an domhain ar aon chor... Tá a fhios ag madaraí an bhaile nach bhfuil ceart agat, buíochas le Dia.

Check out http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2001/0809/fro3.htm