Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [ POSSIBLE SPOILERS ]

AMKC · 09-08-2018 12:04pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

While not strictly canon, Enterprise F was launched in 2409.

pixelburp ^^ Holy god that thing's ugly. Why are so many TNG era vessels so lumpy and messy? But then I thought the USS Reliant was a beautiful design, what do I know

I actually think it looks great. It's a natural evolution from the E.

The Reliant is a beautiful design.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

That's one of the prettier STO ships, there are some real shockers

That is ugly.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

funny thing is the game has full copyright too and the above is supposed to just be an evolution of steamrunner (which is in there too)

check out the ugly:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sto+fed+ships&client=firefox-b-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj92JK9y9_cAhXFVLwKHfeFDPwQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=938

/sidetrack

funny thing is the game has full copyright too and the above is supposed to just be an evolution of steamrunner (which is in there too)

The Steamrunner is a cool ship and not ugly. That thing is ugly but maybe if it was built as a warship then it might be understandable.

pixelburp · 09-08-2018 12:19pm

Agree to disagree there, because all those STO designs look ... kinda thoughtless. No deference to style or aesthetics, just lumping 'Trek bits' together into misshapen craft that lack any character whatsoever. Just googled that 'steamrunner' class and urgh. :eek:

The flying bricks of The Expanse look more stylish than those designs, and half of them are still warships. You can still see thought and pragmatism in those vessels. Anyway, STO is not really canon apparently so we can happily ignore them.

Inviere · 09-08-2018 1:52pm

They’re all non canon though, the last Enterprise seen in canon was E being repaired in Nemesis. Anything after that, whether dreamt up by someone with some skill, or whether doodled by a neckbeard, isn’t canonand can be largely ignored.

Cookie_Monster · 09-08-2018 11:01pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Just googled that 'steamrunner' class and urgh. :eek:

ahh come off it. Probably the best looking canon ship going

AMKC · 09-08-2018 11:09pm

Inviere wrote: »

They’re all non canon though, the last Enterprise seen in canon was E being repaired in Nemesis. Anything after that, whether dreamt up by someone with some skill, or whether doodled by a neckbeard, isn’t canonand can be largely ignored.

The steamrunner' class is canon.

It is in First Contact along with the Akira class, a Norway class and a Sabre class. They were designed to fight the Borg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPzJSBHG4pI&t=53s

It appears around 3:14 along with the other ships too.

Inviere · 10-08-2018 7:53am

AMKC wrote: »

The steamrunner' class is canon.

I know, I was talking about the various Enterprise ships mentioned like F and G. After E, the only glimpse of an Enterprise we got was J, and it was but a glimpse. Nothing else is canon, yet.

AtomicHorror · 10-08-2018 9:53am

Inviere wrote: »

I know, I was talking about the various Enterprise ships mentioned like F and G. After E, the only glimpse of an Enterprise we got was J, and it was but a glimpse. Nothing else is canon, yet.

Even the J is no more canon than the triple-nacelle Ent-D abomination.

Goodshape · 10-08-2018 10:35am

The J is the stupidest looking thing.

AtomicHorror · 10-08-2018 10:49am

Goodshape wrote: »

The J is the stupidest looking thing.

It's not as stupid looking as a Galaxy class with three nacelles.

Goodshape · 10-08-2018 11:18am

AtomicHorror wrote: »

It's not as stupid looking as a Galaxy class with three nacelles.

Ah, it's much worse imo. The three nacelles were a bit lazy and daft looking, but the the J just looks impossible. Like an intern took the D into some cheap 3D software and squished and stretched it and generally ****ed it up, then called it a day.

A mishmash of textures and shapes that doesn't work at all. IMO

pixelburp · 10-08-2018 11:32am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

ahh come off it. Probably the best looking canon ship going

I'm not sure about 'best looking', comes off like a flying shovel to me, with the usual messy over-design that plagues post 'Generations' ships.

It's a shame more ships didn't take the aesthetic cues from the DS9 Defiant, instead of the constant aping of the saucer-deflector-nacelles randomisation that goes on.

Kiith · 10-08-2018 11:32am

I can forgive the triple nacelled Enterprise, if only because their phasers were super powerful. Whatever about photon/quantum torpedos and phase cannons, there's nothing more satisfying for me than seeing phasers used properly. Best part of Way of the Warrior was the barrage of phaser fire. Always used phaser boats in STO as well.

Also, the Akira is clearly the best looking Starfleet ship.

Hector Savage · 10-08-2018 11:33am

Best looking Enterprise was the TNG one ... D ?

AMKC · 10-08-2018 1:05pm

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Even the J is no more canon than the triple-nacelle Ent-D abomination.

I think they were trying to make it look more powerful.

Kiith wrote: »

I can forgive the triple nacelled Enterprise, if only because their phasers were super powerful. Whatever about photon/quantum torpedos and phase cannons, there's nothing more satisfying for me than seeing phasers used properly. Best part of Way of the Warrior was the barrage of phaser fire. Always used phaser boats in STO as well.

Also, the Akira is clearly the best looking Starfleet ship.

I agree the Akira is a great looking ship

Evade · 10-08-2018 1:25pm

AMKC wrote: »

I agree the Akira is a great looking ship

Yeah, the only bad angle it has the side view which is probably why you never see it that way.

Inviere · 10-08-2018 2:41pm

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Even the J is no more canon than the triple-nacelle Ent-D abomination.

J was shown in Enterprise, as a ship from the future. The Galaxy refit was shown in TNG as a possible future, with a side order of Q on the side. The J is definitely canon.

10-08-2018 3:01pm

Inviere wrote: »

J was shown in Enterprise, as a ship from the future. The Galaxy refit was shown in TNG as a possible future, with a side order of Q on the side. The J is definitely canon.

J was from a future with the Sphere builders invading the universe.
Enterprise closed off that front, so J is a possible (closed off) future

TheValeyard · 10-08-2018 3:02pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

J was from a future with the Sphere builders invading the universe.
Enterprise closed off that front, so J is a possible (closed off) future

Some really cool theories with that ship.

Riskymove · 10-08-2018 3:15pm

Evade wrote: »

It is big but they have communicators. If a retired Picard needed something he could call in a favour from Admiral Riker. If he's teaching at the Academy with O'Brien should they just ghost each other in the hallways?

"We're putting the band back together for a mission from God"

Inviere · 10-08-2018 3:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

J was from a future with the Sphere builders invading the universe.
Enterprise closed off that front, so J is a possible (closed off) future

It’s admittedly been a while, was that timeline prevented then in Enterprise?

10-08-2018 3:24pm

Inviere wrote: »

It’s admittedly been a while, was that timeline prevented then in Enterprise?

AFAIR yeah it was

Inviere · 10-08-2018 3:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

AFAIR yeah it was

I can’t find anything to suggest as such online. Best I can find is that Archer was brought aboard to show him that humans and Xindi would eventually work together to defeat a common foe, and save the galaxy. It was intended to convince Archer to abandon his suicide mission, and to instead seek peace with the Xindi...which is ultimately, what happened. I think she’s canon.

The only way to be sure is to watch the episode, and this debate isn’t that important

10-08-2018 3:38pm

Inviere wrote: »

I can’t find anything to suggest as such online. Best I can find is that Archer was brought aboard to show him that humans and Xindi would eventually work together to defeat a common foe, and save the galaxy. It was intended to convince Archer to abandon his suicide mission, and to instead seek peace with the Xindi...which is ultimately, what happened. I think she’s canon.

The only way to be sure is to watch the episode, and this debate isn’t that important

Daniels said that Enterprise ended the temporal cold war, preventing the actual war.

I could be wrong in my take from that

Evade · 10-08-2018 3:38pm

In that future the Delphic Expanse was still there but it was turned back to normal space when the spheres were destroyed. So I don't think the J will exist in the 26th century or at least there's no guarantees it'll be remotely similar.

Inviere · 10-08-2018 4:03pm

Evade wrote: »

In that future the Delphic Expanse was still there but it was turned back to normal space when the spheres were destroyed. So I don't think the J will exist in the 26th century or at least there's no guarantees it'll be remotely similar.

I see, so in that timeline perhaps Archer had gone ahead with the suicide mission against the Xindi. I’m glad it’s not canon then, it was a bizarre looking thing

TheValeyard · 10-08-2018 4:10pm

Inviere wrote: »

I see, so in that timeline perhaps Archer had gone ahead with the suicide mission against the Xindi. I’m glad it’s not canon then, it was a bizarre looking thing

I think its still canon, and the future war will still happen. The spheres of the 22nd century were a desperate attempt by the sphere builders at victory.

Goodshape · 10-08-2018 4:11pm

Sure it was all a Holodeck simulation anyway.

Evade · 10-08-2018 4:12pm

I don't think any future glimpses can be considered strictly canon which brings up uniforms. Do you think we'll get the solid colour top design seen in All Good Things and the Visitor's future segments or something new? I liked that style but all the designs since then, in actual time, have been much duller.

Evade · 10-08-2018 4:13pm

Goodshape wrote: »

Sure it was all a Holodeck simulation anyway.

That was just the last Episode wasn't it?

AMKC · 10-08-2018 5:07pm

Evade wrote: »

That was just the last Episode wasn't it?

You mean the Episode that was actually a TNG episode but had Enterprise in the title. I was so disappointed with that episode the fact it was not even a hour long and the way it was done. I remember all the hype and looking forward to it and then getting that. I was looking forward to to a proper 90 minute episode that would have gave them a good ending. The worst part was the fact that none of them had aged anyway at all and it was what 10 years later.

Inviere · 10-08-2018 5:26pm

Berman and co really took Trek to a new low with that one. I’m delighted he’s nowhere near it these days. Discovery trumps anything he could do today

10-08-2018 7:45pm

Evade wrote: »

That was just the last Episode wasn't it?

Nope... Never happened

TheValeyard · 10-08-2018 9:28pm

Evade wrote: »

I don't think any future glimpses can be considered strictly canon which brings up uniforms. Do you think we'll get the solid colour top design seen in All Good Things and the Visitor's future segments or something new? I liked that style but all the designs since then, in actual time, have been much duller.

Some of it has already happened though.

1) the collapse of the Romulan Empire

2) the rise of the negh'var class Klingon battleship

3) Geordi not needing his vizor

10-08-2018 9:32pm

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Some of it has already happened though.

1) the collapse of the Romulan Empire

2) the rise of the negh'var class Klingon battleship

3) Geordi not needing his vizor

Movie canon can feck right off.

What total fecking nonsense, how can a supernova (not of Romulan home star) really catch the Empire by surprise?

10-08-2018 9:34pm

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

I think its still canon, and the future war will still happen. The spheres of the 22nd century were a desperate attempt by the sphere builders at victory.

Nope, they referenced the expansion of the Delphic Expance beyond the Ent time's location
Archer collapsed it in his present

Evade · 10-08-2018 10:28pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Movie canon can feck right off.

What total fecking nonsense, how can a supernova (not of Romulan home star) really catch the Empire by surprise?

It's hard to move a whole planet.

10-08-2018 10:53pm

Evade wrote: »

It's hard to move a whole planet.

Not a population. They would have years notice

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1387647399000494

https://scitechdaily.com/scientists-measure-the-expansion-velocity-of-supernova-remnant-w44-shockwave/

Evade · 10-08-2018 10:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Not a population. They would have years notice

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1387647399000494

https://scitechdaily.com/scientists-measure-the-expansion-velocity-of-supernova-remnant-w44-shockwave/

I know a real supernova would take decades to cover even one lightyear but I can buy that Star Trek can have faster than light supernovae.

10-08-2018 11:05pm

Evade wrote: »

I know a real supernova would take decades to cover even one lightyear but I can buy that Star Trek can have faster than light supernovae.

It's symptomatic of JJ Verse, it could have been a rogue black hole or any other anomaly but had to go all silly

Evade · 10-08-2018 11:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's symptomatic of JJ Verse, it could have been a rogue black hole or any other anomaly but had to go all silly

How would a rogue black hole be less silly? They should be aware of that coming too unless it was also moving faster than light. An FTL black hole and an FTL supernova are equally believable.

pixelburp · 10-08-2018 11:12pm

Maybe the destruction of Romulus is a blessing in disguise as it might finally be a narrative chance to demonstrate the point of an 'empire' in a Trek empire for once. All the races seem so heavily centralised, it's hard to imagine the Romulans - of all races - not having a backup planet to move the government to in case of emergency.

Sure, the empire probably took a hit and as a power the Romulans are presumably weakened, but again, I'd kinda expect an empire to struggle on.

Evade · 10-08-2018 11:26pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Maybe the destruction of Romulus is a blessing in disguise as it might finally be a narrative chance to demonstrate the point of an 'empire' in a Trek empire for once. All the races seem so heavily centralised, it's hard to imagine the Romulans - of all races - not having a backup planet to move the government to in case of emergency.

Sure, the empire probably took a hit and as a power the Romulans are presumably weakened, but again, I'd kinda expect an empire to struggle on.

It doesn't help that all these Empires are shown to be mono-species endeavours, Remans and the occupation of Bajor aside, that somehow rival the 100+ species Federation. Maybe without the central government on Romulus the former subjects overthrow the remaining Romulans.

11-08-2018 7:36am

Evade wrote: »

How would a rogue black hole be less silly? They should be aware of that coming too unless it was also moving faster than light. An FTL black hole and an FTL supernova are equally believable.

It would depend on the size and if they were scanning but it would get much closer before detection. Also did you see the speeds the Sagittarius stars moved?? Sling shot a black hole out from a supermassive and they would be going high percentage of c.

Anyway there are many spatial anomalies they could have used or just not make the Romulans look inept at all.

Evade · 11-08-2018 10:12am

Deleted User wrote: »

It would depend on the size and if they were scanning but it would get much closer before detection. Also did you see the speeds the Sagittarius stars moved?? Sling shot a black hole out from a supermassive and they would be going high percentage of c.

I didn't see the speed of the Sagittarius star so I looked it up 5,000km/s compared to a supernova's potential speed of 30,000km/s.

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyway there are many spatial anomalies they could have used or just not make the Romulans look inept at all.

Yeah, they could have made up an anomaly but FTL supernova works as well as anything else.

TheValeyard · 11-08-2018 12:30pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nope, they referenced the expansion of the Delphic Expance beyond the Ent time's location
Archer collapsed it in his present

But they woukd stll have tge future battle, its only the 22nd century front that has been won. The temporal war still rages. That was my take from it.

Edit: Daniels did say the war was coming to an end. But if the war never happened, then season three or even Daniels never happened.

Temporal fcuking paradoxes

TheValeyard · 11-08-2018 12:31pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not a population. They would have years notice

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1387647399000494

https://scitechdaily.com/scientists-measure-the-expansion-velocity-of-supernova-remnant-w44-shockwave/

Unless the Supernova was no accident.....

11-08-2018 2:01pm

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Unless the Supernova was no accident.....

It's still a Supernova with years notice.

The Star Empire would evacuate and be just fine.
So I'm ignoring JJ movie canon, personally.

Also the films and series are still officially different entities

pixelburp · 11-08-2018 2:12pm

Nothing about the whole 2009 plot made any sense, and the reams of narrative convenience were almost as bad as the lazy Flash Gordon levels of sophistication with the astrophysics.

Evade · 11-08-2018 2:20pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Nothing about the whole 2009 plot made any sense, and the reams of narrative convenience were almost as bad as the lazy Flash Gordon levels of sophistication with the astrophysics.

The funniest part was when Spock(?) said we can't just throw mass out the back of the Enterprise, or something to that effect, to escape the black hole except that's exactly how rockets work.

AMKC · 11-08-2018 2:22pm

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

But they woukd stll have tge future battle, its only the 22nd century front that has been won. The temporal war still rages. That was my take from it.

Edit: Daniels did say the war was coming to an end. But if the war never happened, then season three or even Daniels never happened.

Temporal fcuking paradoxes

Daniels did say the war was coming to an end. But if the war never happened, then season three or even Daniels never happened.

Tell that to the crew of the Enterprise NX-O1. It happened for them.

Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [** POSSIBLE SPOILERS **]

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Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [ POSSIBLE SPOILERS ]