Are Sinn Féin anti-Catholic?

LuasSimon · 02-08-2020 10:31am #1

Looking at Twitter the last couple of days it seems full of Sinn Fein bots attacking anyone who indicates their a catholic , this Fintan warfield guy who’s having a laugh at the pope in his underpants seems to be a hero of the New Sinn Fein types ?
Seems like Sinn Fein in the past couple of years has been taken over by the far left , wonder what the late Martin Mcguiness a devout catholic would make of all these new Sinn Fein crowd particularly in the South ?

osarusan · 02-08-2020 10:32am

Stop looking at twitter.

Solves so many problems.

Eric Cartman · 02-08-2020 10:34am

Sf will be whatever the ‘most vunderable’ in society want them to be. Its about picking up the low hanging fruit votes.

wirelessdude01 · 02-08-2020 10:35am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Sf will be whatever the ‘most vunderable’ in society want them to be. Its about picking up the low hanging fruit votes.

One thing in the north, a different thing in the south. Left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

02-08-2020 10:36am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Sf will be whatever the ‘most vunderable’ in society want them to be. Its about picking up the low hanging vegetable votes.

Fixed your post.

Odhinn · 02-08-2020 10:38am

LuasSimon wrote: »

Looking at Twitter the last couple of days it seems full of Sinn Fein bots attacking anyone who indicates their a catholic , this Fintan warfield guy who’s having a laugh at the pope in his underpants seems to be a hero of the New Sinn Fein types ?
Seems like Sinn Fein in the past couple of years has been taken over by the far left , wonder what the late Martin Mcguiness a devout catholic would make of all these new Sinn Fein crowd particularly in the South ?

...and a supporter of same sex marriage......

LuasSimon · 02-08-2020 10:42am

Odhinn wrote: »

...and a supporter of same sex marriage......

Doubt if he would be impressed with warfield in his underpants making fun of the pope ? .... would this new Sinn Fein crowd make fun of Martin McGuiness for saying a few prayers ?

Seth Brundle · 02-08-2020 10:45am

LuasSimon wrote: »

the late Martin Mcguiness a devout catholic

Are devout Catholics allowed to kill and oversee terrorism?

McMurphy · 02-08-2020 10:47am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Are devout Catholics allowed to kill and oversee terrorism?

Allowed by whom? ,It's probably frowned upon by the church itself, but as far as the Irish state goes, I believe Michael Collins, Dev, and even Eoin ODuffy were all Catholics too, so tolerated.

Annasopra · 02-08-2020 10:48am

The point really was that Fintan Warfield is being subjected to vile homophobic abuse. The anti catholic whataboutery is a deflection.

Chalk McHugh · 02-08-2020 10:49am

Maybe mcguiness felt the need to pray and confess to all his plotting and bombing of innocent people. Hardly carrying out God's message and the teachings of the Bible now in fairness. The complete opposite.

McMurphy · 02-08-2020 10:50am

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

The point really was that Fintan Warfield is being subjected to vile homophobic abuse. The anti catholic whataboutery is a deflection.

But he's a shinner - so fair game apparently, however look at Leo sideways and you hear the "homophobic" accusations flying around like flys over dog turds.

hurler32 · 02-08-2020 10:51am

It’s seems in the south at least many of the younger crowd in Sinn Fein are more interested in abortions and travellers rights than a United Ireland .

hurler32 · 02-08-2020 10:58am

Two farmer brothers in their 50s used always sell an phoblacht in our local pubs in the 80s and 90s , both teetotaller, the only other time you’d seen them was at mass on Sunday . They never bothered anyone locally and if anything were very good helpers on tidy towns , community draws etc . Not sure bar selling the papers were they up to much else but in New Sinn Féin’s world would they be ridiculed for been catholic’s

Beechwoodspark · 02-08-2020 11:04am

Warfield is the wokest of the woke

I know, as I’ve had the pleasure of listening to him drone on and on at a meeting a few months back

Not an impressive character

Fun fact - he’s related to the Wolfe tones warfields

John Hutton · 02-08-2020 11:08am

Elements of SF have become quite woke and love the identity politics stuff. They have abandoned class based politics.

Warfield was making fun of tbe Pope. Fine if you think that is ok, but pretending that any criticism of the picture is homophobic is ridiculous. Sure, homophobes have used the picture as an excuse to engage in terrible attacks, but criticism of the picture is not in and of itself homophobic.

There's a weird double think going on, where it's commendable to celebrate and attend Muslim festivals in Croke Park, but the Catholic church and catholics must be attacked and belittled at every turn. What is going on?

breezy1985 · 02-08-2020 11:13am

Are Sinn Féin anti-Catholic? Hopefully.
The further or parties in Ireland move away from the church the better

Beechwoodspark · 02-08-2020 11:21am

John Hutton wrote: »

Elements of SF have become quite woke and love the identity politics stuff. They have abandoned class based politics.

Warfield was making fun of tbe Pope. Fine if you think that is ok, but pretending that any criticism of the picture is homophobic is ridiculous. Sure, homophobes have used the picture as an excuse to engage in terrible attacks, but criticism of the picture is not in and of itself homophobic.

There's a weird double think going on, where it's commendable to celebrate and attend Muslim festivals in Croke Park, but the Catholic church and catholics must be attacked and belittled at every turn. What is going on?

Yep, colleague said similar, would warfield have the cajones to challenge the Islamic faith for their homophobic beliefs?

John Hutton · 02-08-2020 11:25am

breezy1985 wrote: »

Are Sinn Féin anti-Catholic? Hopefully.
The further or parties in Ireland move away from the church the better

Should we not want to live in a country where people can freely worship without mockery, abuse or worse?

Rework your sentence and see if you still agree... Insert "anti Muslim, anti Protestant, and Hindu, anti black" etc.

No political party should be anti any group of citizens. Instead their job should be to have a society where people can coexist

John Hutton · 02-08-2020 11:25am

breezy1985 wrote: »

Are Sinn Féin anti-Catholic? Hopefully.
The further or parties in Ireland move away from the church the better

Should we not want to live in a country where people can freely worship without mockery, abuse or worse?

Rework your sentence and see if you still agree... Insert "anti Muslim, anti Protestant, and Hindu, anti black" etc.

No political party should be anti any group of citizens. Instead their job should be to have a society where people can coexist

breezy1985 · 02-08-2020 11:32am

John Hutton wrote: »

Should we not want to live in a country where people can freely worship without mockery, abuse or worse?

Rework your sentence and see if you still agree... Insert "anti Muslim, anti Protestant, and Hindu, anti black" etc.

No political party should be anti any group of citizens. Instead their job should be to have a society where people can coexist

True they should not be anti but not pro either which was the default in this country for years and caused horrific damage. But comparison to those other groups is a bit simplistic as the Irish need to be able to slag off the RC church as part of our political and cultural satire in a way we dont need to with minority groups

TheValeyard · 02-08-2020 11:38am

Why would you take a pic like thay anyway? Seems Like an odd way to get attention

John Hutton · 02-08-2020 12:19pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

True they should not be anti but not pro either which was the default in this country for years and caused horrific damage. But comparison to those other groups is a bit simplistic as the Irish need to be able to slag off the RC church as part of our political and cultural satire in a way we dont need to with minority groups

This doesn't add up.

Protestants were responsible for untold horrors for centuries in Ireland, but if someone started labelling themselves anti Protestant or celebrating anti protestantism you'd rightly call them a bigot.

Please elaborate further on why we "need" to slag off the Catholic church, I don't quite follow.

John Hutton · 02-08-2020 12:20pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

Why would you take a pic like thay anyway? Seems Like an odd way to get attention

Being on holidays and celebrating his sexuality isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Why wear a picture of tbe Pope when doing it is the question.

James Brown · 02-08-2020 12:27pm

'Far left' is it? Seems to be the new stick all right.

There would be many Catholics in the membership but I'd certainly not call them anti catholic. That's just looking for another angle to attack IMO. Pretty poor.

James Brown · 02-08-2020 12:36pm

John Hutton wrote: »

Elements of SF have become quite woke and love the identity politics stuff. They have abandoned class based politics.

Warfield was making fun of tbe Pope. Fine if you think that is ok, but pretending that any criticism of the picture is homophobic is ridiculous. Sure, homophobes have used the picture as an excuse to engage in terrible attacks, but criticism of the picture is not in and of itself homophobic.

There's a weird double think going on, where it's commendable to celebrate and attend Muslim festivals in Croke Park, but the Catholic church and catholics must be attacked and belittled at every turn. What is going on?

It's people making fun of the photo who are often calling any criticism of Varadkar homophobic based is the thing. Not everyone just some folk desperate to use even a person's sexuality to try score a point on an anonymous forum. Sad.

People talk out the side of their mouth on many issues such as asylum seekers. And when SF show to support them they claim their supporters aren't happy which is a contradiction.
The catholic thing is a nothing. I'd image more young folk are moving away from the church no matter their politics.

breezy1985 · 02-08-2020 12:50pm

John Hutton wrote: »

This doesn't add up.

Protestants were responsible for untold horrors for centuries in Ireland, but if someone started labelling themselves anti Protestant or celebrating anti protestantism you'd rightly call them a bigot.

Please elaborate further on why we "need" to slag off the Catholic church, I don't quite follow.

Need to be allowed yes. The Catholic church willingly and enthusiastically planted themselves in every aspect of the Irish state including trying to influence politics and politicians and bullying anyone who spoke against them so therefore have opened themselves up to satire.

And we do make jokes in this country all the time about the British who caused untold horrors so don't pretend we dont.

It was the church in Ireland set them selves aside as special in this country so don't be complaining now if they are treated as special

Paddygreen · 02-08-2020 12:58pm

When I was in college looking for a left of center international socialist party to join I chose the Green Party. Way too many shifty Decos and bearded Luke Kelly wannabes in Sinn Fein for my taste. Add to that the fact that Mary sounds and comes across as the best cure for insomnia in Ireland. I know Eamon can be an insufferable bore a lot of the time but when AMMCC lights the fire in his belly he is like a man possessed by the spirit of Marx.

James Brown · 02-08-2020 1:00pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Need to be allowed yes. The Catholic church willingly and enthusiastically planted themselves in every aspect of the Irish state including trying to influence politics and politicians and bullying anyone who spoke against them so therefore have opened themselves up to satire.

And we do make jokes in this country all the time about the British who caused untold horrors so don't pretend we dont.

It was the church in Ireland set them selves aside as special in this country so don't be complaining now if they are treated as special

The church always put it's own interests first.
If we want to go that route, who helped fund King Billy ffs...

breezy1985 · 02-08-2020 1:12pm

Bowie wrote: »

The church always put it's own interests first.
If we want to go that route, who helped fund King Billy ffs...

Not sure what your point is there?

RandomViewer · 02-08-2020 1:23pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Not sure what your point is there?

The pope at the time supported King Billy, the church supported British rule when it was in their interest,

RandomViewer · 02-08-2020 1:26pm

SF are not anti-Catholic but chasing after a few niche votes has cost them Catholic voters,

washman3 · 02-08-2020 1:33pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Yep, colleague said similar, would warfield have the cajones to challenge the Islamic faith for their homophobic beliefs?

Far too astute for that.!!!
It's easier have a cheap shot at the pope. Gains more support in the present climate, while having any slight pop at Islam would be counter-productive.
This guy is acting like a total a###hole and getting away with it.

Zebra3 · 02-08-2020 1:42pm

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Maybe mcguiness felt the need to pray and confess to all his plotting and bombing of innocent people. Hardly carrying out God's message and the teachings of the Bible now in fairness. The complete opposite.

Eh, God's teachings and the bible are full of genocide, ethnic cleansing, rape and all the rest.

McGuinness has nothing on God and his crimes.

splinter65 · 02-08-2020 1:48pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

The point really was that Fintan Warfield is being subjected to vile homophobic abuse. The anti catholic whataboutery is a deflection.

SF senator mocks and sneers a very popular religious leader, takes a selfie of same, slaps it up on Instagram, gets likes and shares from friends and admirers, so what?
Couple of years go by and in his role as an elected public representative he espouses ideology which would be considered very controversial not just here but all over the world. The ideology is enough to get him sacked in some places , and even murdered in others. But this is a cool country and while there’s debate there’s no calls for his resignation, or a lynching.
Joe Bloggs on the street however doesn’t want his 14 year old daughter to be allowed to arrange to have hormone blockers without asking him first, does a 1/2 minutes googling and finds the senator in his Speedo’s sneering at the pope, pouting and posing for the camera in his lederhosen, giving the camera a snarl and the finger in his repeal jumper etc.
“Vile homophobic abuse“? or total and complete naivety bordering on arrogance and/or insanity on behalf of the senator?

splinter65 · 02-08-2020 1:49pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

The point really was that Fintan Warfield is being subjected to vile homophobic abuse. The anti catholic whataboutery is a deflection.

SF senator mocks and sneers a very popular religious leader, takes a selfie of same, slaps it up on Instagram, gets likes and shares from friends and admirers, so what?
Couple of years go by and in his role as an elected public representative he espouses ideology which would be considered very controversial not just here but all over the world. The ideology is enough to get him sacked in some places , and even murdered in others. But this is a cool country and while there’s debate there’s no calls for his resignation, or a lynching.
Joe Bloggs on the street however doesn’t want his 14 year old daughter to be allowed to arrange to have hormone blockers without asking him first, does a 1/2 minutes googling and finds the senator in his Speedo’s sneering at the pope, pouting and posing almost pornographically for the camera in his lederhosen at the pride parade, giving the camera a snarl and the finger in his repeal jumper etc.
“Vile homophobic abuse“? or total and complete naivety bordering on arrogance and/or insanity on behalf of the senator?

TheValeyard · 02-08-2020 2:00pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Eh, God's teachings and the bible are full of genocide, ethnic cleansing, rape and all the rest.

McGuinness has nothing on God and his crimes.

Edgy

splinter65 · 02-08-2020 3:00pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

Edgy

It’s like being mauled by a dead sheep at this stage.

breezy1985 · 02-08-2020 3:14pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

The pope at the time supported King Billy, the church supported British rule when it was in their interest,

Ah ok. I never knew the pope supported Billy

James Brown · 02-08-2020 3:49pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Not sure what your point is there?

Conversation was on the politics of the church. They put the institution above the followers numerous times.

Galwayguy35 · 02-08-2020 4:09pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

The point really was that Fintan Warfield is being subjected to vile homophobic abuse. The anti catholic whataboutery is a deflection.

Well if he wants to make fun of religion he should be consistent about it, let him dress up as Muhammad next so he has had a laugh at the other major religion on the planet.

I think we both know that won't happen don't We?

Zebra3 · 02-08-2020 4:26pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

Edgy

Factual.

John Hutton · 02-08-2020 5:11pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Need to be allowed yes. The Catholic church willingly and enthusiastically planted themselves in every aspect of the Irish state including trying to influence politics and politicians and bullying anyone who spoke against them so therefore have opened themselves up to satire.

And we do make jokes in this country all the time about the British who caused untold horrors so don't pretend we dont.

It was the church in Ireland set them selves aside as special in this country so don't be complaining now if they are treated as special

This is a great misreading of history, you make it sound like Catholics just swooped in and took everything over by force and subjected people. This did happen, but it was the Protestant ascendancy which did that.

It was a great aberration in Europe that Catholicism greatly increased in Ireland in the century after the famine. This was because Catholics were oppressed for so long. It was a perfectly natural and predictable event that after independence people would want and get an influencial catholic church.

The Catholic church did not willingly plant themselves in every aspect of the Irish state. Their schools, hospitals, asylums etc. all evolved pre independence as charitable endeavours as either an alternative to the discriminatory state services, or in areas that the state just ignored. After independence the state just didn't bother to do what the state should and left the supply of vital welfare services to charities, the dominant one being the Catholic Church.

Today the state continues to leave vital welfare programmes to charities, private companies and NGOs to do (nursing homes, mental health services etc.). The only difference is that the church is trying to divest itself from these roles.

The reality is that most people were Catholics so the country and politicians who were elected tended to follow Catholic teaching (but not always fully).

To summarise, the Catholic church was so influencial in Ireland because the majority wanted them to be. When they no longer wanted them to be, they stopped being so influencial. You can't just build up De Valera and McQuaid as boogeymen and tyrants. There's far more to it.

If the abuse and jokes (there's many a bully who excuses their actions as "I was only joking") about Catholics were made about any other religion you'd be rightly up in arms about it.

It's time people gain some maturity about these things - treat people with dignity and respect. Have respect for people's religious beliefs (you don't have to believe or agree with them) and don't shame people for expressing and partaking in their religion.

John Hutton · 02-08-2020 5:21pm

As a general point, a poster mentioned that the Catholic Church would bash people and bully them if they spoke out of line or disagreed with them.

How is this different from what happens today if some speaks contrary to the tenants of woke identity politics ? They are cancelled.

It's the same thing, the Catholic church think they are right for denouncing things as do those seeking to cancel people .

At least the Catholic church offered forgiveness, there doesn't seem to be any way back from being cancelled.

JohnnyFlash · 02-08-2020 5:32pm

Their paramilitary wing certainly murdered and maimed plenty of them.

Treppen · 02-08-2020 5:34pm

Ya but when are Sinn Féin going to grow up and don the poppy.

breezy1985 · 02-08-2020 5:47pm

John Hutton wrote: »

This is a great misreading of history, you make it sound like Catholics just swooped in and took everything over by force and subjected people. This did happen, but it was the Protestant ascendancy which did that.

It was a great aberration in Europe that Catholicism greatly increased in Ireland in the century after the famine. This was because Catholics were oppressed for so long. It was a perfectly natural and predictable event that after independence people would want and get an influencial catholic church.

The Catholic church did not willingly plant themselves in every aspect of the Irish state. Their schools, hospitals, asylums etc. all evolved pre independence as charitable endeavours as either an alternative to the discriminatory state services, or in areas that the state just ignored. After independence the state just didn't bother to do what the state should and left the supply of vital welfare services to charities, the dominant one being the Catholic Church.

Today the state continues to leave vital welfare programmes to charities, private companies and NGOs to do (nursing homes, mental health services etc.). The only difference is that the church is trying to divest itself from these roles.

The reality is that most people were Catholics so the country and politicians who were elected tended to follow Catholic teaching (but not always fully).

To summarise, the Catholic church was so influencial in Ireland because the majority wanted them to be. When they no longer wanted them to be, they stopped being so influencial. You can't just build up De Valera and McQuaid as boogeymen and tyrants. There's far more to it.

If the abuse and jokes (there's many a bully who excuses their actions as "I was only joking") about Catholics were made about any other religion you'd be rightly up in arms about it.

It's time people gain some maturity about these things - treat people with dignity and respect. Have respect for people's religious beliefs (you don't have to believe or agree with them) and don't shame people for expressing and partaking in their religion.

You leave out the parts where the church were sending letters and speaking from the pulpit to gardai and politicians threatening to destroy their careers and most of the country being catholic does not excuse the bullying of the ones who were not. Also I dont care how many of the country were catholic there is no excuse for the rape and beatings they handed out

As for the "if they said that about ..." nonsense this always comes up as there seems always to be way more people saying this than people actually being "woke" on forums and just to clear up my personal views I think there is alot wrong with the teachings of Islam but I think its pointless us joking or doing much about it as its something that they need to sort out themselves like we did with church and state over the years and I completely supported the likes of Charlie Hedbo during that controversy.

And he does not need to qualify slagging the pope by then slagging the rest. A Man U fan doesnt have to follow up saying he hates Liverpool by saying by the way i also hate Man C, Chelsea etc.

nthclare · 02-08-2020 6:01pm

I remember when Sinn Fein would have laughed at the woke plebs and they had their own struggles to get better support over the years.

I like Pierce Doherty and Mary Lou is ok too, her heart is in the right place.

But pandering to the woke crowd and the SJW fraternity aint going to make Sinn Fein enhance their leadership potential.

I like politicians to be tough and make hard difficult decisions.
Pandering to the likes of the woke crowd and not liking Catholism will not help them gain a meaningful vote.
Because most people are moderate and the alt right and lefties are not exactly sure of themselves, forever moving the goal post's to suit their mood on the day....

A lot of Catholics needed Sinne Feinn when they were being persecuted by the majority in the North and if they lack respect for those people they're going to loose favour.

The Northern political playing field is different to here down South.

Zebra3 · 02-08-2020 6:42pm

John Hutton wrote: »

As a general point, a poster mentioned that the Catholic Church would bash people and bully them if they spoke out of line or disagreed with them.

How is this different from what happens today if some speaks contrary to the tenants of woke identity politics ? They are cancelled.

It's the same thing, the Catholic church think they are right for denouncing things as do those seeking to cancel people .

At least the Catholic church offered forgiveness, there doesn't seem to be any way back from being cancelled.

The same church that hid their crimes away and denied everything?

Moved child rapists around so they'd be free to f.ck more kids?

The same church that wouldn't cough up for their crimes?

When did the church ask AGS to prosecute all those who covered up the crimes against children?

Oh, but the church offered forgiveness, wow... :rolleyes:

A criminal organisation that exploits people with their lies.

JohnnyFlash · 02-08-2020 6:45pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

The same church that hid their crimes away and denied everything?

Moved child rapists around so they'd be free to f.ck more kids?

The same church that wouldn't cough up for their crimes?

When did the church ask AGS to prosecute all those who covered up the crimes against children?

Oh, but the church offered forgiveness, wow... :rolleyes:

A criminal organisation that exploits people with their lies.

Were you as outraged when multiple stories came out about SF and IRA protecting children abusers? Or is your your particular brand of pontificating only confined to groups you don’t agree with?

Zebra3 · 02-08-2020 6:48pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Were you as outraged when multiple stories came out about SF and IRA protecting children abusers? Or is your your particular brand of pontificating only confined to groups you don’t agree with?

Were you as outraged when multiple stories came out about FFFG and Labour protecting women abusers? Or is your your particular brand of pontificating only confined to groups you don’t agree with?

Are Sinn Féin anti-Catholic?

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