Time for Bans

sodacat11 · 27-01-2019 9:14pm #1

It should not be up to the ICU or tournament organisers to teach good manners to people who never learned them at home but some players are becoming habitual defaulters and it is high time that they were taught a lesson. Not turning up for a game or, just as bad, contacting the arbiter a few minutes before the round is due to start is just not good enough.Today we had two players default both their games in Gonzaga and surprise surprise at least one of them did exactly the same thing last year and in a recent all play all too. In my book this is just pig ignorant behaviour and should not be tolerated. Gonzaga should not accept entries from these individuals again and the ICU should introduce a rule that any player defaulting a game without a very good reason automatically receives a three month ban from all chess.
Bunratty is next on the calendar and last year we had multiple last round defaulters, it should be made clear before this years event that such behaviour will not be tolerated. If people don't want to play in a round all they have to do is request a bye in good time. Not showing up for a game is insulting to your opponent and to the sponsors and organisers and just shows a total lack of manners and respect. If the ICU doesn't take action then we, the players, should just refuse to play against serial defaulters whenever we are drawn against them. We don't need such people in the chess world.

Tim Harding · 28-01-2019 5:51pm

The players concerned didn't actually default two rounds; they were not in the draw for round five.

As they are teenagers, a ban is too harsh but certainly some kind of warning is in order and the player who missed a game in a round-robin should certainly not be allowed play in another one for (say) 12 months, because in those tournaments it is particularly unfair to the opponents he has beaten.

As for Bunratty, my recollection is that defaults in the MORNING rounds after excessive boozing is an even bigger problem.

sodacat11 · 28-01-2019 6:34pm

Tim Harding wrote: »

The players concerned didn't actually default two rounds; they were not in the draw for round five.

As they are teenagers, a ban is too harsh but certainly some kind of warning is in order and the player who missed a game in a round-robin should certainly not be allowed play in another one for (say) 12 months, because in those tournaments it is particularly unfair to the opponents he has beaten.

As for Bunratty, my recollection is that defaults in the MORNING rounds after excessive boozing is an even bigger problem.

I was in hospital for a week but still arrived for my game on Friday.That night I almost had to go back into hospital again after ringing Kdoc at 4 a.m because I was very ill. As I only had three hours sleep that night I couldn't play Saturday and even on Sunday morning I still wasn't feeling great but I still struggled in ( probably unwisely given how I played) to honour my commitments. Maybe that is the difference between my generation and these pampered teenagers that you think should get special treatment.

Shanemelaugh · 29-01-2019 1:29am

First of all I was intending on playing my final two games on Sunday but unfortunately I don’t own Dublin bus and there’s nothing I can do to change that I contacted the arbiter the night before he did not respond until 8:10 the following morning <snip>

Mod note - no need for the personal insults.

Hoboo · 29-01-2019 1:42am

Check

sodacat11 · 29-01-2019 9:20am

Shanemelaugh wrote: »

First of all I was intending on playing my final two games on Sunday but unfortunately I don’t own Dublin bus and there’s nothing I can do to change that I contacted the arbiter the night before he did not respond until 8:10 the following morning<snip>

Dunno where you get your idea of me being a drunk from as I am a very moderate drinker.
Dublin bus has a thing called a timetable that even you should be clever enough to read.
How come you defaulted last year on the same day and at a recent all play all too?
Have you any idea how annoying it is to travel a long distance to a game of chess then have to sit waiting for an hour only for your opponent not to show up?

Mod edit - personal abuse removed from quoted post

Shanemelaugh · 29-01-2019 2:17pm

First off all we contacted Gerry before the game so nobody was waiting 1 hour and second off all I did not default any all play all I played every game in the IM norm event so again stating things that are simply are not true and then with the timetable I have to get two buses to reach the venue and normally most buses on a Sunday start at a moderate time but unfortunately for us the number 11 was not leaving until 10 that morning and once again I don’t own Dublin bus so I can do anything about that and if I’m playing chess all weekend and not arriving home until 12 at night what do you expect me to do I asked Gerry that night could me and my opponent start at 10 as I wouldn’t be able to make it <snip> I dunno why you think that I’m happy about not being able to show up the only reason I’m responding to you is because of how pissed off I was about the situation

Mod edit - again, no need for personal insults

cdeb · 29-01-2019 2:46pm

Mod note - lads; calm down. There's points can be made without resorting to personal insults. (And if they can't, then I'm closing the thread)

Tim Harding · 29-01-2019 2:51pm

I don't have much sympathy for either side in this row. <snip>

Here are a few points from a "hurler on the ditch".

1) Looking back at the results from the January all-play-alls on chessresults.com, it is clear that S.M. did not default any games in the IM norm event but his brother did indeed default one in a different all-play-all that week. I do not know why that happened, but I have already suggested what action ICU should take in respect of that failure unless there was a very good and unforeseeable reason.

2) Entering a tournament with an early Sunday (or Bank Holiday) round without making sure you have a means to get to the game on time is irresponsible. I don't know where you live but Dublin Bus and Luas timetables are available online. The Luas Green Line (which starts at 0700 on Sundays) runs very close to the back gate of Gonzaga; get off at Cowper. This is something you could have easily investigated before the tournament.

3) If a player believed at the time of entering the Gonzaga tournament, that he had a lift arranged but it subsequently fell through, then before the tournament began he should probably ask to withdraw and have a refund of the entry fee.

If the event is already in progress, he should have told the arbiter BEFORE HE MADE THE ROUND FOUR DRAW on Saturday evening that he and anyone else affected (SM's brother in this case) could not play in the morning, and requested a half point bye for that round.

4) Publicly insulting an International Arbiter who has done great service to Irish chess is extremely unforgivable and you owe the person concerned an apology. He is not allowed to change the published draw in a FIDE-rated tournament unless he finds that a result in the previous round had been misreported. I would not be surprised if he refuses your entry for any event in the near future for which you may have entered.
<snip>

Mod note - crossed with my note above

sodacat11 · 29-01-2019 2:53pm

My apologies if I misconstrued your calling me an "absolute drunken idiot" and a "crazy drunken fool" as an implication to me being a heavy drinker. I just thought it strange that you should mention alcohol when I rarely have more than a couple of pints and maybe a glass of whiskey. I don't mind being called a "nut job" or "mad" (I'm often called worse) as my sanity is clearly a debatable issue.
And by the way I did not insult your mother, I have never even met the lady.
Now to your more reasoned points. Firstly two players did sit at the board on Sunday morning for an hour waiting for you and your brother to show up. If as you say,you told Gerry in good time that you wouldn't be coming I find it strange that he would leave you in the draw. Gerry actually said that he only heard from you when you requested a bye a few minutes before the round was supposed to start. A number of players (myself included) were annoyed at the defaults and complained to Gerry that this behaviour( not just by you or your brother) was becoming too common at events and that something should be done to stop it,hence my calling for bans.
I am not as you say "looking for attention". I probably play more chess in a year than 99% of people so I like things to be right when I go to a tournament. My "rants" did succeed in getting the time limit changed for Irish Ch games and also they have brought a much stricter adherence to rating floors at most tournaments so I do do some good with my posts. If you don't like them then all you have to do is avoid reading them.
Finally, how come you didn't know when you entered Gonzaga that there would be no buses on the Sunday morning and why didn't you turn up on the Sunday afternoon? Were there no buses then either? I must say that it is news to me that Dublin cannot be reached by public transport from anywhere in Ireland.

Shanemelaugh · 29-01-2019 3:33pm

Well look I’m just gonna put this to bed now you did insult my mother by implying we were not tought manners at home implies she is doing a bad job and again I did contact Gerry that night about it and got no response I have the messages to prove all of this and the drink statement you just completely took the wrong way I don’t know you so how could I know how much you drink personally I feel like it’s not your place to write things that clearly try’s discredit my name I’ve been playing chess since I was three years off age so for somebody to start trying to make me look bad like the way you are trying to is out of order and with the buses I was not sure if I was getting the bus or a lift on Sunday plus I have other things to be doing and am pretty busy so it’s not as if I have all the time in the world to check bus times but again I did that Saturday night after my games and that’s why I texted Gerry and again no response so I believe just to start with you are sort of being feed miss information and look your just out of order considering you are speaking about a 15 year old

Shanemelaugh · 29-01-2019 3:40pm

To start with Tim all off your comments are very far but I have a very busy life and things can happen but for this fide arbiter to be giving miss information and trying to completely discredit my name is un called for in no cercomstance should adults be sending abuse calling for bans against two under 18 players and personally Gerry was completely useless in trying to help he simply wasn’t bothered so all my comments are far and have to be understood I’m

Shanemelaugh · 29-01-2019 3:46pm

*fair and yes Gerry is a great arbiter and has done a lot for Irish chess but he started talking badly then behind my back and it’s now become public because of it and I mean all this would never have started if he would have kept his remarks privately there would be no argument today so personally I’m putting this to bed but I mean really this page is just putting a negative light on the whole icu people should really just stop and keep it to themselves if it’s going to discrediting peoples names

mikhail · 29-01-2019 5:14pm

What's the point of disputing a post only to come out of it looking far worse than picture it painted of you?

I doubt many would object to players in the habit of defaulting being awarded some penalty. In practice, it is probably simpler to leave it to the tournaments to deal with unless it really gets out of hand.

Shanemelaugh · 29-01-2019 5:35pm

Yes the insults were perhaps uncalled for but I mean I’m just defending myself and could my name be left out off any discussion on this page I feel like this page is realistically filled with players moaning and causing drama if people want drama go watch coronation street but just for the mod to know from now on could any comments made about me be removed as I just feel like this was all started by two people Who had a private conversation and that’s fine by me but not on a public website with miss information it’s just simply unfair thanks

sodacat11 · 29-01-2019 5:39pm

Shanemelaugh wrote: »

Well look I’m just gonna put this to bed now you did insult my mother by implying we were not tought manners at home implies she is doing a bad job and again I did contact Gerry that night about it and got no response I have the messages to prove all of this and the drink statement you just completely took the wrong way I don’t know you so how could I know how much you drink personally I feel like it’s not your place to write things that clearly try’s discredit my name I’ve been playing chess since I was three years off age so for somebody to start trying to make me look bad like the way you are trying to is out of order and with the buses I was not sure if I was getting the bus or a lift on Sunday plus I have other things to be doing and am pretty busy so it’s not as if I have all the time in the world to check bus times but again I did that Saturday night after my games and that’s why I texted Gerry and again no response so I believe just to start with you are sort of being feed miss information and look your just out of order considering you are speaking about a 15 year old

I have nothing against you personally, I don't even know you.My problem is with people defaulting games or withdrawing from tournaments without good reason and them not being punished for it. If players need a bye all they have to do is to request it in good time, there is NO excuse for leaving an opponent sitting at the board for an hour or for distorting who wins prizes in a tournament by giving someone a freebie point that they may not have otherwise earned.

RandomDycicle · 29-01-2019 6:49pm

+1 for a short term ban on players who default their games
-1 for the topic being approached in a way that was intended to offend people
+1 for making me laugh because of the arguements

sodacat11 · 29-01-2019 6:59pm

RandomDycicle wrote: »

+1 for a short term ban on players who default their games
-1 for the topic being approached in a way that was intended to offend people
+1 for making me laugh because of the arguements

-1 For your lack of punctuation.
-1 For your bad spelling.
+1 For not posting here ever before.

RandomDycicle · 29-01-2019 7:06pm

sodacat11 wrote: »

-1 For your lack of punctuation.
-1 For your bad spelling.
+1 For not posting here ever before.

I'm SoRrY iF mY inTelligEnCe iSn'T oN pAr WiTh YoUrS mrs cat.

I wonder if a mod can close this thread and open a new one so that we can have a proper discussion on the topic without any arguments.

cdeb · 29-01-2019 7:41pm

I don't see the need to start a new thread to be honest. If we can't discuss it civilly here, we won't be able to discuss it civilly on a new thread either.

I also think that, while an incident at Gonzaga has brought this up for discussion, there topic isn't that specific issue as such, but the overall issue of defaulting at tournaments, with Bunratty (rightly) mentioned as an example. So I don't see the need to close the thread either.

Time for Bans

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