UFC 258

ASOT · 14-02-2021 2:18am #1

Some bizare commentary there during the Ewell Gutierrez fight talking about how both fighters had to go through custody battles for there kids and that one lost and doesn't see his kid because of it.

Some decent fights so far.

Burns beats Usman later.

Title should say 258 obv

ASOT · 14-02-2021 2:35am

Safe to say someone will get robbed tonight with these sort of scorecards.

https://twitter.com/btsportufc/status/1360764200008712192?s=19

ASOT · 14-02-2021 2:36am

Joe bringing up the custody thing briefly in the victory interview, the whole thing is so bizarre.

Alot of people going mad on twitter.

Mellor · 14-02-2021 3:35am

ASOT wrote: »

Safe to say someone will get robbed tonight with these sort of scorecards.

https://twitter.com/btsportufc/status/1360764200008712192?s=19

What’s bad about that score card?
2 agreed on 2-1, 2 agreed on a 10-8. Would prob look pretty logical on the round by round score card.

Wasn’t paying attention myself so not sure if your saying the loser was robbed.

MrStuffins · 14-02-2021 3:57am

Fair play to Hernandez there. Crazy to think Vieira gassed so badly so quickly.

And to win by sub? Crazy!

creeper1 · 14-02-2021 4:48am

Viera tapped . That’s true but he was softened up by some very heavy striking beforehand.

I think he was more hurt than gassed to be honest.

Mellor · 14-02-2021 4:50am

Usual stream not working now.

Hernendez by sub was like 30/1

MrStuffins · 14-02-2021 4:55am

creeper1 wrote: »

Viera tapped . That’s true but he was softened up by some very heavy striking beforehand.

I think he was more hurt than gassed to be honest.

Definitely a mix of the two.

He starts gassing, starts to question himself, starts to take punishment and everything goes south very quickly.

it's actually week 17 of the McGregor FAST programme.

MrStuffins · 14-02-2021 4:56am

Mellor wrote: »

Usual stream not working now.

Hernendez by sub was like 30/1

Not even his mother was stcicking a fiver on that!

Mellor · 14-02-2021 5:43am

Heinish looking very sluggish going into the 3rd
Kelvin 30-27 most likely

eagle eye · 14-02-2021 6:56am

Usman is unreal, best p4p no doubt about it.

Mellor · 14-02-2021 7:00am

Burns took the first. But just it rocked badly in the second. Usman did well to keep the pressure on and not let him recover.

hawaii501 · 14-02-2021 7:01am

Who's next for Usman, no one can touch him at 170?

Unbelievable performance after that first round

14-02-2021 7:01am

eagle eye wrote: »

Usman is unreal, best p4p no doubt about it.

Khabib is the p4p GOAT :rolleyes:

eagle eye · 14-02-2021 7:03am

Mellor wrote:

Burns took the first. But just it rocked badly in the second. Usman did well to keep the pressure on and not let him recover.

I'm not sure he took the first, he spent a lot of it on his back defending kicks. He got big shots off early but time wise he lost a lot of the round.

Great to see the respect shown by Usman for Burns.

ctrl-alt-delete · 14-02-2021 7:09am

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not sure he took the first, he spent a lot of it on his back defending kicks. He got big shots off early but time wise he lost a lot of the round.

Great to see the respect shown by Usman for Burns.

Yeah I'm not so sure about the first either.

As for the respect, Usman didn't touch at the start of the fight. They acknowledged each other at the end of the first round, looked ready to kill each other at the end of the second round and then Burns was floored and in tears at the end of the fight - hard to react to that.

Usman was clinical though, some power in those jabs.

eagle eye · 14-02-2021 7:14am

Celtic Husky wrote:

Khabib is the p4p GOAT

Who has he beaten that compares with Maia, Woodley, Covington and now Burns?
Khabib needs to get it on with Usman if he wants the p4p title and he won't get it if he does, he'll be 29-1.

Mellor · 14-02-2021 7:32am

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not sure he took the first, he spent a lot of it on his back defending kicks. He got big shots off early but time wise he lost a lot of the round.

Great to see the respect shown by Usman for Burns.

He was winning on the feet then slipped.
He was on his back by choice after that. They were both kicking each other’s legs. No real damage done by either.

14-02-2021 7:32am

eagle eye wrote: »

Who has he beaten that compares with Maia, Woodley, Covington and now Burns?
Khabib needs to get it on with Usman if he wants the p4p title and he won't get it if he does, he'll be 29-1.

I consider Gaethje Poirer Barboza and Mcgregor far better than all them. Lets be honest he beat Mcgregor, your idol, so you can't give him credit for that win, as well as the others. Otherwise you would have to admit how wrong you are. Khabib is the GOAT. 29-0. Usman has another 10 victories to go before he betters that record and even then he will not be undefeated like Khabib has been.

Mellor · 14-02-2021 8:14am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Khabib is the GOAT. 29-0. Usman has another 10 victories to go before he betters that record and even then he will not be undefeated like Khabib has been.

I think his point was related to quality or wins over quantity.
If quantity is the ultimate measure. Khabib streak isn’t in the top 5 longest streaks.

Renan Barao went 32 fights.
Igor Vovchanchyn went 40 fight

There were other who did 30-31 undefeated also.

EagererBeaver · 14-02-2021 9:24am

Mellor wrote: »

I think his point was related to quality or wins over quantity.
If quantity is the ultimate measure. Khabib streak isn’t in the top 5 longest streaks.

Renan Barao went 32 fights.
Igor Vovchanchyn went 40 fight

There were other who did 30-31 undefeated also.

Barao's performances and record since 2014 would suggest he might not have been entirely responsible for that streak himself.

Mellor · 14-02-2021 9:46am

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Barao's performances and record since 2014 would suggest he might not have been entirely responsible for that streak himself.

Yup. Had he retired after Faber fight. His P4P status would be very different.

That’s the point though, you can’t look at any one metric l, especially a streak, and say it dictates goat status.

themandan6611 · 14-02-2021 12:04pm

Usman is some operator. He can judge and adjust so well during a fight and when you have a jab like his + wrestling = possible GOAT

Gamb!t · 14-02-2021 12:51pm

He's a beast and has some serious power in that jab.

Esse85 · 14-02-2021 2:58pm

Gamb!t wrote: »

He's a beast and has some serious power in that jab.

Phenomenal specimen.

Hard to see where the holes are in his game that allow another fighter to beat him.

He was rocked a few times in the first but kept his head and soldiered on like a great champion would.

mdwexford · 14-02-2021 3:19pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Who has he beaten that compares with Maia, Woodley, Covington and now Burns?
Khabib needs to get it on with Usman if he wants the p4p title and he won't get it if he does, he'll be 29-1.

McGregor, Poirier and Gaethje all in their prime.

Both have beaten some great opponents. We don’t always have to try and **** on peoples records to make a point a fighter is great.

Usman made some good adjustments after round 1. Trevor Whitman is just killing it at the moment. The sparring with Gaethje must have been interesting, would love to see some videos of that.

I still think Colby has the best chance of beating him of anyone at 170 but Usman is obviously still favourite in that match up.

And actually has no one commented on Herb Dean in the main event. He was stumbling all over them being indecisive yet again for the finish. Not quite the level of the Ribas fight but still awful. He needs to be gotten rid of before he makes a mistake that kills someone.

Brussels Sprout · 14-02-2021 4:07pm

mdwexford wrote: »

Both have beaten some great opponents. We don’t always have to try and **** on peoples records to make a point a fighter is great.

+1 to this. Is there anything more tedious than the constant P4P debate?

Usman, Khabib, Adesanya, Stipe, Jones, Shevchenko & Nunes have all cleaned out their respective divisions in recent years. Some of them have been beaten along the way. Some of those divisions are deeper with talent than others. Who's the greatest of them? I don't know. Nobody knows. There's no objective way to compare them all which means that there's always some different metric that someone will use to say that their preferred fighter is the greatest or their most despised fighter is not.

Some goes for comparing fighters from different eras. Is Usman a greater WW than GSP? Who knows. Any yard stick you use to compare them is flawed.

Finally the idea that Khabib would have to go and fight Usman as some sort of test for P4P greatness is profoundly stupid. Why stop there? Why not take on Adesanya or Jones or Stipe? The whole point of a pound for pound champion is that you're comparing people without them having to fight outside their divisions where the heavier fighter has the clear advantage. The clue is in the name. /Rant

Beersmith · 14-02-2021 7:15pm

Those "8k" camera shots were horrible! Can't believe anyone thinks they look good.

eagle eye · 15-02-2021 12:55am

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Finally the idea that Khabib would have to go and fight Usman as some sort of test for P4P greatness is profoundly stupid. Why stop there? Why not take on Adesanya or Jones or Stipe? The whole point of a pound for pound champion is that you're comparing people without them having to fight outside their divisions where the heavier fighter has the clear advantage. The clue is in the name. /Rant

The reason I said he should go take on Usman is because it's well.kniwn that Khabib walks around at 190 when not in camp.
The other reason is because Khabib claimed he was P4P king and demanded the UFC put him top.
So if he wants it then go face the man who has shown more than he has.

MrStuffins · 15-02-2021 2:22am

Sorry, was Khabib fighting last night or something?

The Nal · 15-02-2021 10:33am

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

+1 to this. Is there anything more tedious than the constant P4P debate?

Any impossible question alright. I will say that people having Khabib as the GOAT after 3 title defences is laughable. He didn't even beat a champion for it either. Beat Iaquinta, a fight night guy.

Chairman Meow · 15-02-2021 1:06pm

Beersmith wrote: »

Those "8k" camera shots were horrible! Can't believe anyone thinks they look good.

I knew id see complaints about this today lmao. It was ****ing horrible alright. Depth of field looks great in photographs, or for close up conversations, but for the in-ring shots it just looked bloody awful. Made it look like the background was a bad green screen.

Brussels Sprout · 15-02-2021 1:23pm

eagle eye wrote: »

So if he wants it then go face the man who has shown more than he has.

Ok. Since you are implying that they are a similar size then there's no reason why they couldn't fight at 155lb then is there? Except we all know that Usman would have to chop off a limb to make 155lb. He's already killing himself to make the 170lb limit.

It's not just the skills inside the ring that dictate great champions. It's also less exciting, but vitally important things like weight cutting and staying injury free outside of fights. Every fighter does a calculation as to how low a weight they can fight without it adversely affecting their abilities. For Khabib the magic number is 155lb. For Usman it's 170lb.

Khabib laid claim to the P4P crown, not the 170lb crown.

It is telling that you are happy to declare Usman the P4P king without demanding that he in turn challenge Adesanya at Middleweight. After all, Usman is a similar size to a lot of middleweights. Why do you have one rule for Khabib and another for Usman?

eagle eye · 15-02-2021 10:09pm

Brussels Sprout wrote:

It is telling that you are happy to declare Usman the P4P king without demanding that he in turn challenge Adesanya at Middleweight. After all, Usman is a similar size to a lot of middleweights. Why do you have one rule for Khabib and another for Usman?

Adesanya is moving to light heavy, were you not aware of that?

Mellor · 16-02-2021 7:40am

eagle eye wrote: »

The reason I said he should go take on Usman is because it's well.kniwn that Khabib walks around at 190 when not in camp.

Khabib cuts from around at 180. If he occasional hit 190, it's rare and down to being a bit fatter.

Usman cuts from 190+. He stays in shape, if he gets fat he'd be 200+.

There is 10 pounds difference at least between them. They are a weight division apart.

eagle eye · 16-02-2021 8:41am

Mellor wrote:

There is 10 pounds difference at least between them. They are a weight division apart.

I find that hard to believe, I haven't heard much about Usman ever struggling to hit his weight at least in recent years. Khabib has missed a fight from getting ill over it and had a real dodgy weigh in for his last fight.

Mellor · 16-02-2021 10:35am

eagle eye wrote: »

I find that hard to believe, I haven't heard much about Usman ever struggling to hit his weight at least in recent years. Khabib has missed a fight from getting ill over it and had a real dodgy weight in for his last fight.

When did I suggest he struggled?
20 lbs is a fairly normal cut for a welterweight.

Brussels Sprout · 16-02-2021 11:05am

eagle eye wrote: »

Adesanya is moving to light heavy, were you not aware of that?

I was. He's still the middleweight champion and you didn't answer the question. Why are you requesting that Khabib fight a champion at a higher weight category before he can lay claim to the best P4P fighter but you don't apply that same standard to Usman?

yourdeadwright · 16-02-2021 11:06am

I think Usman has already beat better names than Khabib ,
Also Khabib is not 29 -0 some of his fights where scheduled for just 2 rounds that does not fall under unified rules
For example Usman's tuf fights are not counted on his recorded so cant see how 2 rounders are on Khabib's

But I honestly don't think you get even in the GOAT conversation without doing it in two weight classes ,Its literally shows you are p4p the best,

The only person I would give a pass on that is Jones and that's because going from 205 to 265 is such a massive difference ,but he is giving it a go anyway

akelly02 · 16-02-2021 11:11am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think Usman has already beat better names than Khabib ,
Also Khabib is not 29 -0 some of his fights where scheduled for just 2 rounds that does not fall under unified rules

For example Usman's tuf fights are not counted on his recorded so cant see how 2 rounders are on Khabib's

But I honestly don't think you get even in the GOAT conversation without doing it in two weight classes ,Its literally shows you are p4p the best,

The only person I would give a pass on that is Jones and that's because going from 205 to 265 is such a massive difference ,but he is giving it a go anyway

i wouldnt be giving jones any passes because he is a cheating kernt.

yourdeadwright · 16-02-2021 11:16am

akelly02 wrote: »

i wouldnt be giving jones any passes because he is a cheating kernt.

Oh he is but I'm of the opinion he is not the only one ,

Izzy's looks like he to me has a manboob , Usman's looks like to me he has ghg gut (didn't Colby say EPO) & so on ,

Again I'm not accusing anyone just my uneducated opinion ,

MrStuffins · 16-02-2021 11:24am

Remember when the MMA Forum had conversations of an objective nature?

Nowadays there's way too much sh*te from people trying to shoehorn in their biased views on certain fighters.

Not only did UFC 258 feature a Welterweight title fight, but it didn't feature a single Lightweight. Not one.

It still somehow becomes about Khabib. How the f*ck is this about Khabib?

Back to the topic:

Fair play to Usman, he's a class fighter and is currently the best WW in the world. But he has a long way to go before he's spoken about in the same breath as GSP, or even Matt Hughes in my opinion.

The WW division has become kinda stale. There aren't too many matches featuring Usman that will float the boat of the casual. Masvidal being the only one really but that's only because Jorge has some shine at the minute.

I fight 'd personally like to see is Usman v Chiesa eventually

Fall_Guy · 16-02-2021 11:43am

akelly02 wrote: »

i wouldnt be giving jones any passes because he is a cheating kernt.

Maybe. He's definitely a stupid "kernt", but I always think it strange people believe that Jones would not have beaten all Comers without possible doping when I normally look at his career and think how much more dominant he would have been over his opposition if he was training regularly between fights and staying away from drug-fuelled benders while in camp.

If he was using steroids intentionally, I doubt he was ever maximising his potential in a way that would allow him to really take advantage of whatever marginal gains were to be extracted from their usage.

P4P GOAT for me.

Usman has the potential to enter that conversation in time too and appears to have that champions mindset that all the other contenders had too (Jones, GSP, Anderson, Khabib IMO) and Khabibs last few wins definitely move him into contention with Jones but it seems he's done and Jones has the chance to cement his claim with a successful heavyweight run.

yourdeadwright · 16-02-2021 11:46am

MrStuffins wrote: »

Remember when the MMA Forum had conversations of an objective nature?

Nowadays there's way too much sh*te from people trying to shoehorn in their biased views on certain fighters.

Not only did UFC 258 feature a Welterweight title fight, but it didn't feature a single Lightweight. Not one.

It still somehow becomes about Khabib. How the f*ck is this about Khabib?

Back to the topic:

Fair play to Usman, he's a class fighter and is currently the best WW in the world. But he has a long way to go before he's spoken about in the same breath as GSP, or even Matt Hughes in my opinion.

The WW division has become kinda stale. There aren't too many matches featuring Usman that will float the boat of the casual. Masvidal being the only one really but that's only because Jorge has some shine at the minute.

I fight 'd personally like to see is Usman v Chiesa eventually

Its stale because Usman has beat all the top guys ,

Id love to see him fight Wonder boy , its just a different style of fight from anything we have seen Usman in

I think Usman is to strong for Chiesa

Masvidal doesn't have a hope , just a waste of time if you ask me ,

16-02-2021 11:50am

Usman has a far superior resumé to Khabib.

MrStuffins · 16-02-2021 1:08pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its stale because Usman has beat all the top guys ,

Id love to see him fight Wonder boy , its just a different style of fight from anything we have seen Usman in

I think Usman is to strong for Chiesa

Masvidal doesn't have a hope , just a waste of time if you ask me ,

True. He's by far the top WW at the moment and i'm not too sure there are too many threats behind him in the division.

I think there's also a gap between Colby @ #2 and the rest of the division..... and Kamaru put an absolute beating on Colby!

I also agree about Chiesa. But there's something about the guy having been paying his dues for so long that makes me want to see him get a crack at the belt.

eagle eye · 16-02-2021 4:31pm

MrStuffins wrote:

It still somehow becomes about Khabib. How the f*ck is this about Khabib?

Well I didn't start it. I just gave my opinion that Usman is the P4P best in the UFC right now, I never mentioned any other fighter.

Mellor · 16-02-2021 10:41pm

Usman is one fight off Anderson’s UFC win streak record.
Although, Jones has more fights “undefeated”

mdwexford · 17-02-2021 2:00am

Deleted User wrote: »

Usman has a far superior resumé to Khabib.

On what planet, bizarre statement.

MrStuffins wrote: »

I think there's also a gap between Colby @ #2 and the rest of the division..... and Kamaru put an absolute beating on Colby!

Usman Colby was dead level going into the last round. Was a very close fight until Usman closed the show.

yourdeadwright · 18-02-2021 12:53pm

mdwexford wrote: »

On what planet, bizarre statement.

Usman Colby was dead level going into the last round. Was a very close fight until Usman closed the show.

On planet Earth ,

I have to agree Usman has fought better fighters than Khabib

The Nal · 18-02-2021 1:12pm

Outside of McGregor, Poirier and Gaethje, who has Khabib beaten who would be considered top tier? Could argue Usman has a similar CV so far.

Thats why greatness needs longevity. Was watching some old Jones fights the other night. He was beating people like Bader, Rua, Machida, Sonnen, Belfort etc 9, 10, 11 years ago! Still unbeaten as champ.

Usman and Khabib aren't in his league. Maybe in another 9 or 10 title defences time.

UFC 258

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