Importing from the UK - definitive guide (Q and A)

deezell · 26-02-2021 10:16am

L-M wrote: »

I spoke to a man today who said that there’s the “Return of goods act” which last for 2 years seemingly.

In short what he said was if the car was origionally in the EU, then moved out (Brexit) and was brought back in within 2 years customs don’t apply.

So should apply to 2019 and 2020 cars.

Sounds to me like any car that was registered pre brexit would qualify, any UK car already registered before Jan 2021 was an EU car, or did that end the year before, 2020 being a transition year, UK not in the EU but obeying the rulles? Either way, it would be any car currently in the UK pre whichever date, so theres either the rest of this year or next to 'return' them to the EU. Who wants to give that a go?

Thomasirl123 · 26-02-2021 10:27am

L-M wrote: »

I spoke to a man today who said that there’s the “Return of goods act” which last for 2 years seemingly.

In short what he said was if the car was origionally in the EU, then moved out (Brexit) and was brought back in within 2 years customs don’t apply.

So should apply to 2019 and 2020 cars.

Is he confusing return to the EU with return to the manufacturer?

blobert · 26-02-2021 12:28pm

Hi Guys,

Quick question.

I've found a car for sale in NI that I'm interested in from a dealer there.

I asked them if it had been brought into NI prior to Dec 31st 2020 and showed them the Revenue link:

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-registered-in-great-britain-and-subsequently-registered-in-northern-ireland.aspx

They said:

"The vehicle was indeed brought into Northern Ireland from GB prior to January 1st. If you proceeded with the purchase, I can provide evidence of this for you to avoid paying the expensive VAT on top of the sales price."

They also said

"If required I can backdate the V5 into our name and address also."

I'm thinking if it was in UK prior to end 2020 AND registered to an address there then Revenue should have no complaints???

Any advice on this would be much appreciated, ideally don't want to wind up

And just to clarify if it is "registered" in NI prior to Dec 2020, I should not have to pay VAT or duty, just VRT as before?

Car in question is a Mitsubishi Outlander (I'm thinking built in Japan) from 2015

Thanks!

funnyname · 27-02-2021 2:26pm

Thomasirl123 wrote: »

That's definitive to me.

I wonder is there a grey area with this, in the vehicle is imported into NI, sold to a NI resident and then it's sold onto a ROI resident who then can import it without any VAT element due?

deezell · 27-02-2021 3:13pm

funnyname wrote: »

I wonder is there a grey area with this, in the vehicle is imported into NI, sold to a NI resident and then it's sold onto a ROI resident who then can import it without any VAT element due?

Who TF knows. Worst case is a Ni car bought and registered from new in NI, not a used UK imported into NI, it should avoid VAT and the origin rule duty. That limits us to the small pool of indigenous NI used stock, and there will be no value there.

bazz26 · 27-02-2021 4:46pm

So the burning question is has anyone tried bringing one in yet? Everyone is waiting for a guinea pig including Revenue probably.

reubenreuben · 27-02-2021 8:53pm

If the 2nd hand car is registered in NI after the import from GB then only VRT has to be paid.
If this wasn't the case , then half the dealers in the north would be out of business.

Its different though if the car has not been registered in NI and is still registered to a GB address.

deezell · 27-02-2021 10:32pm

reubenreuben wrote: »

If the 2nd hand car is registered in NI after the import from GB then only VRT has to be paid.
If this wasn't the case , then half the dealers in the north would be out of business.

Its different though if the car has not been registered in NI and is still registered to a GB address.

This seems fairly clear.
"Vehicles first registered in Great Britain and subsequently registered in Northern Ireland after 1 January 2021

Under the VAT rules currently in force in the UK, vehicles first registered in Great Britain and imported into Northern Ireland after 31 December 2020 are liable to customs duty, if applicable, and VAT at import if they are subsequently imported into the State."

Just say the last phase first, as in,

"Vehicles first registered in Great Britain and subsequently registered in Northern Ireland after 1 January 2021, if they are subsequently imported into the State.,

Under the VAT rules currently in force in the UK, vehicles first registered in Great Britain and imported into Northern Ireland after 31 December 2020 are liable to customs duty, if applicable, and VAT at import."
The state means us, no NI.

spuddy · 28-02-2021 12:39am

Makes sense (not that I like it), the UK have left the EU, so GB cars coming into ROI via NI, without paying VAT/duties just isn't on.

Isambard · 28-02-2021 6:35am

spuddy wrote: »

Makes sense (not that I like it), the UK have left the EU, so GB cars coming into ROI via NI, without paying VAT/duties just isn't on.

unless they have been "properly imported" to NI.
Once the boxes are ticked with VAT and customs declarations, a dealer can buy in stock GB to NI and sell to whoever wants to buy. If that's a RoI buyer. they can import to RoI tax free except VRT as before.

reubenreuben · 28-02-2021 11:20am

Isambard wrote: »

unless they have been "properly imported" to NI.
Once the boxes are ticked with VAT and customs declarations, a dealer can buy in stock GB to NI and sell to whoever wants to buy. If that's a RoI buyer. they can import to RoI tax free except VRT as before.

So no change compared to pre 2021 if buying a 2nd hand NI registered car

mickdw · 28-02-2021 2:20pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are you implying the majority of cars on done deal are damaged cars sold by dodgy dealers. Do you seriously think we have that many damaged cars that the majority of cars sold on donedeal would be bad ones. Very very unlikely.

I am currently selling my car on donedeal. It's a great car looked after well, I have a workmate selling her car on it. Good car and well looked after too. My brother in law just sold his car on it last month. Another well looked after car.

Who are all these dodgy dealers that make up the majority?

If you go with no knowledge, buying off a chap that is not tge registered owner from outside a supermarket and lookingnat bottom of the barrel stuff price wise, you will find any amount of scrap on donedeal.
On the other hand, if you are prepared to pay the price of a good car, do your homework, buy off the genuine owner who has had it a few years, you can certainly find a good car.

deezell · 28-02-2021 2:32pm

reubenreuben wrote: »

So no change compared to pre 2021 if buying a 2nd hand NI registered car

Its not clear that a uk car imported in NI after Jan 2021, registered in NI, with Ni number plates, then subsequently imported here, will avoid VAT and origin Duty. I've yet to read of a clear cut case.

Isambard · 28-02-2021 2:51pm

The deal was for no extra (RoI) VAT and also duty charged on entry to the Republic but a Dealer will still have to charge UK VAT on a sale, domestic or otherwise. If it's a private sale , double VAT would be avoided, but the price already contains the UK VAT element. .

(IMO)

spuddy · 28-02-2021 5:42pm

deezell wrote: »

Its not clear that a uk car imported in NI after Jan 2021, registered in NI, with Ni number plates, then subsequently imported here, will avoid VAT and origin Duty. I've yet to read of a clear cut case.

I'd say it is clear, NI being a backdoor for GB cars, coming from outside the single market & customs union, isn't a runner.

If the car originated in GB, you need to have the documention to show the VAT & customs duties (if applicable) have been paid, when bringing it into ROI. It's stated on Revenue's website & makes sense, however much we would all wish it differently.

ccazza · 28-02-2021 6:47pm

If a car was brought into the north by the dealer in November and a document shows the boat it came in on would that be enough for revenue to mean only vrt and nox would have to be paid.

funnyname · 28-02-2021 8:14pm

spuddy wrote: »

I'd say it is clear, NI being a backdoor for GB cars, coming from outside the single market & customs union, isn't a runner.

If the car originated in GB, you need to have the documention to show the VAT & customs duties (if applicable) have been paid, when bringing it into ROI. It's stated on Revenue's website & makes sense, however much we would all wish it differently.

Guess given that it wouldn't matter if the car was subsequently bought and sold a few times in the North before being sold onward to someone in the ROI?

S' · 28-02-2021 9:22pm

ccazza wrote: »

If a car was brought into the north by the dealer in November and a document shows the boat it came in on would that be enough for revenue to mean only vrt and nox would have to be paid.

From what I understand this this is true.
Normal VRT & NOX charge on import. No official documentation to support this though

spuddy · 28-02-2021 10:07pm

funnyname wrote: »

Guess given that it wouldn't matter if the car was subsequently bought and sold a few times in the North before being sold onward to someone in the ROI?

That's my reading of the situation, won't impact on NI buyers at all, they can continue to buy NI or GB origin cars. However as soon as a GB car, brought into NI after after 1st Jan, comes into the EU/ROI, then the VAT/duties are payable.

Isambard · 28-02-2021 10:15pm

spuddy wrote: »

That's my reading of the situation, won't impact on NI buyers at all, they can continue to buy NI or GB origin cars. However as soon as a GB car, brought into NI after after 1st Jan, comes into the EU/ROI, then the VAT/duties are payable.

No I think once the car is "properly imported" after jan 2021 by a NI resident or dealer/other business, it can then be sold on to a RoI buyer with no additional taxes. In other words, once it is properly in NI , it's in the EU area and can be traded across the border in the same way as pre Brexit.

The one bit I'm not clear on is whether or not this applies to cars not of GB origin.

UrbanFret · 28-02-2021 10:18pm

ccazza wrote: »

If a car was brought into the north by the dealer in November and a document shows the boat it came in on would that be enough for revenue to mean only vrt and nox would have to be paid.

Yes that is correct.

funnyname · 28-02-2021 10:29pm

Isambard wrote: »

No I think once the car is "properly imported" after jan 2021 by a NI resident or dealer/other business, it can then be sold on to a RoI buyer with no additional taxes. In other words, once it is properly in NI , it's in the EU area and can be traded across the border in the same way as pre Brexit.

The one bit I'm not clear on is whether or not this applies to cars not of GB origin.

Where are you getting this info from?

Isambard · 28-02-2021 10:34pm

funnyname wrote: »

Where are you getting this info from?

the Revenue.ie website. It's my interpretation but that's what the Deal was. Before 2021 there was no change for ex GB cars and after 2020 vehicles from NI could be imported to RoI without additional taxes provided a Customs declaration was made GB to NI. Once a vehicle is properly in NI , it can be sold to a RoI buyer and taken across the border with just VRT to pay as before.

spuddy · 28-02-2021 10:56pm

Isambard wrote: »

No I think once the car is "properly imported" after jan 2021 by a NI resident or dealer/other business, it can then be sold on to a RoI buyer with no additional taxes. In other words, once it is properly in NI , it's in the EU area and can be traded across the border in the same way as pre Brexit.

The one bit I'm not clear on is whether or not this applies to cars not of GB origin.

If a GB origin car can be brought into the EU/ROI without paying VAT/customs duties, that undermines the EU single market / customs union.

"Vehicles first registered in Great Britain and subsequently registered in Northern Ireland after 1 January 2021
Under the VAT rules currently in force in the UK, vehicles first registered in Great Britain and imported into Northern Ireland after 31 December 2020 are liable to customs duty, if applicable, and VAT at import if they are subsequently imported into the State."

User1998 · 28-02-2021 10:58pm

Isambard wrote: »

the Revenue.ie website. It's my interpretation but that's what the Deal was. Before 2021 there was no change for ex GB cars and after 2020 vehicles from NI could be imported to RoI without additional taxes provided a Customs declaration was made GB to NI. Once a vehicle is properly in NI , it can be sold to a RoI buyer and taken across the border with just VRT to pay as before.

Thats what it said last week on Revenues website but it looks like they’ve removed that guidance and replaced it with this instead:

“Importations of used cars from Great Britain into the State must be declared to customs and are liable to customs duty and VAT on importation. The routing of such importations through Northern Ireland to avoid EU requirements in relation to customs duty and VAT at import will not be permitted.”

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-registered-in-great-britain-and-subsequently-registered-in-northern-ireland.aspx

spuddy · 28-02-2021 11:08pm

User1998 wrote: »

Thats what it said last week on Revenues website but it looks like they’ve removed that guidance and replaced it with this instead:

“Importations of used cars from Great Britain into the State must be declared to customs and are liable to customs duty and VAT on importation. The routing of such importations through Northern Ireland to avoid EU requirements in relation to customs duty and VAT at import will not be permitted.”

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-registered-in-great-britain-and-subsequently-registered-in-northern-ireland.aspx

Which is the only way to maintain the single market / customs union. Lean times ahead for those of us who enjoyed buying second hand GB cars, myself included.

mickdw · 28-02-2021 11:14pm

spuddy wrote: »

Which is the only way to maintain the single market / customs union. Lean times ahead for those of us who enjoyed buying second hand GB cars, myself included.

Nice little boost for genuine NI cars - they would appear to be very much sought after now to bring down here. Prices will reflect that i guess.

spuddy · 28-02-2021 11:17pm

mickdw wrote: »

Nice little boost for genuine NI cars - they would appear to be very much sought after now to bring down here. Prices will reflect that i guess.

I'd expect they'll be priced closely to their ROI equivalents in time, supply & demand.

Isambard · 01-03-2021 7:37am

User1998 wrote: »

Thats what it said last week on Revenues website but it looks like they’ve removed that guidance and replaced it with this instead:

“Importations of used cars from Great Britain into the State must be declared to customs and are liable to customs duty and VAT on importation. The routing of such importations through Northern Ireland to avoid EU requirements in relation to customs duty and VAT at import will not be permitted.”

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-registered-in-great-britain-and-subsequently-registered-in-northern-ireland.aspx

yes, that's the situation of course, but once a car is properly in NI , it makes no difference . There's a difference between an ex GB car legitimately in NI and one being routed that way with the intention of importing to RoI to avoid taxes. Once the proper GB to NI paperwork is in place and the vehicle owned by a NI resident individual or business, and the UK VAT situation sorted, it can be resold to a RoI resident without extra RoI taxes. That was "the Deal".

I don't see that there is any advantage to be had here anyway, because if there's a profit to be made, it's the NI dealer who will be making it.

deezell · 01-03-2021 8:55am

Isambard wrote: »

yes, that's the situation of course, but once a car is properly in NI , it makes no difference.....
.....I don't see that there is any advantage to be had here anyway, because if there's a profit to be made, it's the NI dealer who will be making it.

That's it in a nutshell. The prime source of non vat qualifying non UK origin cars can not be brought in directly by a private individual, but only with the machinations of a NI dealer or resident, with a NI address. I can see an agency service springing up here, whereby you proceed as before, buy in UK, and travel to NI wirh your vehicle, and pay for all the necessary paper work to head south with a "properly imported' NI vehicle. This agent takes no risk with purchase, transport, etc, he/she just agrees to process the car, taking possession of it for some days perhaps with some kind of agreement that reflects your equity in the vehicle, like a deposit, before handing it back for the fee. Such an arrangement may be attractive on certain cars, though exchange rates, Nox and WLTP have virtually killed the value anyway.
Talk about a perfect storm. It's becoming nearly impossible to get a few hoover bags online, never mind import a car, such is the effect of Brexit on our supply chains routed through UK warehouses. Try Espares, Screwfix, Argos and others. 'Out of stock, 4-6 weeks delay, can't be deliverd to you address', etc.

spuddy · 01-03-2021 9:39am

Isambard wrote: »

...once a car is properly in NI , it makes no difference. There's a difference between an ex GB car legitimately in NI and one being routed that way with the intention of importing to RoI to avoid taxes. Once the proper GB to NI paperwork is in place and the vehicle owned by a NI resident individual or business, and the UK VAT situation sorted, it can be resold to a RoI resident without extra RoI taxes...

Is there any information from Revenue which supports your opinion?

User1998 · 01-03-2021 10:15am

There was but it seems to have been removed. It basically said once the car is properly imported to NI it can then be imported to Ireland with just VRT to pay. Seems like they’ve removed it now tho

Isambard · 01-03-2021 11:25am

Once it's in NI and properly imported following the rules. it is just another car. I can see Revenue making a ruling on how long a car needs to have been owned by a NI Resident or Business, but the deal allows for cross border trade to continue as before essentially. Customs may well have their own interpretation, but that's how the deal was supposed to facilitate Brexit.

I think many are confusing being VAT free with no VAT charged on import. NI VAT will still be chargeable when a dealer sells a car on the margin and is locked in with the sale price for a private sale. Being VAT qualifying doesn't mean VAT free either.

You still have the problem that the car could be impounded for a long time whilst the Customs situation is sorted.

richardbradley · 01-03-2021 2:20pm

Have read as much as I can find and I believe I am ok to buy a car that I can evidence was shipped to a dealer in NI before the 1st Jan 2021. Does anybody have any experience or beliefs that would tell me that this isn’t true or is too risky?
Thank you.

Isambard · 01-03-2021 3:23pm

richardbradley wrote: »

Have read as much as I can find and I believe I am ok to buy a car that I can evidence was shipped to a dealer in NI before the 1st Jan 2021. Does anybody have any experience or beliefs that would tell me that this isn’t true or is too risky?
Thank you.

i think you'd be OK too, but who knows for sure? All a matter of opinion so far.

deezell · 01-03-2021 5:19pm

Isambard wrote: »

i think you'd be OK too, but who knows for sure? All a matter of opinion so far.

I assume it still has a UK reg?

Isambard · 01-03-2021 6:01pm

deezell wrote: »

I assume it still has a UK reg?

and is it GB built? Not sure what the situation is there

Marcusm · 01-03-2021 6:07pm

deezell wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell. The prime source of non vat qualifying non UK origin cars can not be brought in directly by a private individual, but only with the machinations of a NI dealer or resident, with a NI address. I can see an agency service springing up here, whereby you proceed as before, buy in UK, and travel to NI wirh your vehicle, and pay for all the necessary paper work to head south with a "properly imported' NI vehicle. This agent takes no risk with purchase, transport, etc, he/she just agrees to process the car, taking possession of it for some days perhaps with some kind of agreement that reflects your equity in the vehicle, like a deposit, before handing it back for the fee. Such an arrangement may be attractive on certain cars, though exchange rates, Nox and WLTP have virtually killed the value anyway.
Talk about a perfect storm. It's becoming nearly impossible to get a few hoover bags online, never mind import a car, such is the effect of Brexit on our supply chains routed through UK warehouses. Try Espares, Screwfix, Argos and others. 'Out of stock, 4-6 weeks delay, can't be deliverd to you address', etc.

That won’t work for U.K. VAT. The initial dealer will zero rate for export if VAT qualifying, you as a private individual cannot then supply it to the “agent” in NI VAT free. I can see NI dealers buying GB VAT qualifying cars and marketing them to ROI customers saving VAT that way.

S' · 01-03-2021 7:50pm

Isambard wrote: »

i think you'd be OK too, but who knows for sure? All a matter of opinion so far.

Surly if one rang the local VRT office you will get a yes/no answer?

Liamo_mu · 01-03-2021 9:13pm

So has anything changed for importing cars from the UK or northern Ireland with Brexit?

Is there any new fees? I've read that you now have to pay VAT but only in cars from England Wales and Scotland? No VAT on northern Irish cars?

So is using the northern Irish market the only real option now?

I'm looking at a 2015 - 2017 car if that matters.

LillySV · 01-03-2021 9:29pm

richardbradley wrote: »

Have read as much as I can find and I believe I am ok to buy a car that I can evidence was shipped to a dealer in NI before the 1st Jan 2021. Does anybody have any experience or beliefs that would tell me that this isn’t true or is too risky?
Thank you.

This is true, i asked that question on online Revenue services and they confirmed i only have vrt and nox to pay. Im not sure of the cars brought in post 1/1/21 though...id doubt Revenue know themselves by the way guidance in regard to this changes by the day.

Going on the prices being charged up there at present along with the mediocre exchange rate...id say you will find it hard to get much value up there now though. I for one have just put deposit on car down here as i reckon its the same price here as a similar one up the north cleared...assuming Revenue would use the same rate as on their calculator!

Isambard · 01-03-2021 9:43pm

LillySV wrote: »

This is true, i asked that question on online Revenue services and they confirmed i only have vrt and nox to pay. Im not sure of the cars brought in post 1/1/21 though...id doubt Revenue know themselves by the way guidance in regard to this changes by the day.

Going on the prices being charged up there at present along with the mediocre exchange rate...id say you will find it hard to get much value up there now though. I for one have just put deposit on car down here as i reckon its the same price here as a similar one up the north cleared...assuming Revenue would use the same rate as on their calculator!

I suppose no ferry to pay for is a good advantage.

Luckylow10 · 02-03-2021 12:48pm

Just looking for opinions on this - just purchased a late 2019 (MY20) uk PHEV Volvo XC90 and the dealer had it registered etc for me.

After taxing it etc, I notice the tax bracket it’s in is higher than expected. It’s taxed at 85co2 .

Now I’m thinking what happened is the v5 had the NEDC emissions on it of 55, but revenue are using the uplift calculation to get the WLTP equivalent which brings it to 85.

I know the official WLTP emissions was available at the time the car was purchased,it’s just the UK didn’t start using that figure until 2020. Volvo informed me my WLTP emission is 73. Should I be able to get revenue to amend the emissions to relflect the actual WLTP rather than their calculated number?

Thanks

colm_mcm · 02-03-2021 2:13pm

It’s €150 vs €160?

This might mean you overpaid VRT too

Luckylow10 · 02-03-2021 2:38pm

Thanks, I know it’s only €10 difference, but that could change next year or the year after etc. Also the toll bridges EV refund scheme is for cars under 80g/km. my dealer could have paid too much on vrt also by the sounds of it.

colm_mcm · 02-03-2021 3:16pm

It’s definitely worth pursuing.

What does your registration cert say?

LillySV · 02-03-2021 3:27pm

Luckylow10 wrote: »

Just looking for opinions on this - just purchased a late 2019 (MY20) uk PHEV Volvo XC90 and the dealer had it registered etc for me.

After taxing it etc, I notice the tax bracket it’s in is higher than expected. It’s taxed at 85co2 .

Now I’m thinking what happened is the v5 had the NEDC emissions on it of 55, but revenue are using the uplift calculation to get the WLTP equivalent which brings it to 85.

I know the official WLTP emissions was available at the time the car was purchased,it’s just the UK didn’t start using that figure until 2020. Volvo informed me my WLTP emission is 73. Should I be able to get revenue to amend the emissions to relflect the actual WLTP rather than their calculated number?

Thanks

Is there wltp on the logbook also or just the older nedc rate? When u get vrt done?

Luckylow10 · 02-03-2021 4:52pm

Vrt was done about 2 weeks ago, took revenue a few days to get back with a vrt figure. I’ll contact them and see what they say no harm.

LillySV · 02-03-2021 5:39pm

Luckylow10 wrote: »

Vrt was done about 2 weeks ago, took revenue a few days to get back with a vrt figure. I’ll contact them and see what they say no harm.

ok i made afew queries since Jan and one was relating to car tax and how it would be calculated for imported cars post 1/1/21 and heres what i found out:

Imported Vehicles registered in Ireland on or after the 1st January 2021:

Where the vehicles birth date is pre-January 1st 2008, a vehicle should be taxed on the Engine CC

Where the vehicle birth date is between the 1st January 2008 and the 30th of June 2008 a vehicle should be taxed on either the engine cc or co2 (whichever is the cheaper rate).

Any imported registered vehicle on or after the 1st January 2021, where a NEDC value is supplied by Revenue, the vehicle should be taxed on the NEDC rates

Any imported registered vehicle on or after the 1st January 2021, where a WLTP value is supplied by Revenue, the vehicle should be taxed on the WLTP rates

Any imported registered vehicles on or after the 1st January 2021, where both a WLTP and NEDC value are supplied by Revenue, the vehicle should be taxed on the WLTP rates

Update* read your post again , yea you need to ring revenue as they are the ones responsible for the higher tax rate.

Luckylow10 · 02-03-2021 5:57pm

That’s interesting where did you get that info from?

“ Any imported registered vehicle on or after the 1st January 2021, where a NEDC value is supplied by Revenue, the vehicle should be taxed on the NEDC rates”

This seems contrary to what is written on the vrt website:

While the VRT regime is transitioning to the new WLTP emissions test, it is still the case that
used imports pre September 2018 will have been subject to the old and discredited NEDC
emissions test. An ‘WLTP equivalent’ CO2 value will be calculated for cars subject to the NEDC test.

Also taken from KPMG website:

Cars first registered in the State up to the end of 2020, or from January 2021 which only have the old NEDC figure, will be subject to motor tax in line with the current NEDC motor tax table, with minor adjustments.

I wonder what minor adjustments are..

Importing from the UK - definitive guide (Q and A)

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