NFL Playoffs: Championship Sunday

cosatron · 27-01-2021 5:43pm

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

We'll all be long dead before Brady even thinks about retiring.

according to Pat Mcafee last night, the bears are actively looking for a QB, any truth in that realt.

Realt Dearg Sec · 27-01-2021 5:56pm

cosatron wrote: »

according to Pat Mcafee last night, the bears are actively looking for a QB, any truth in that realt.

Their post-season press conference (which was a laughable spectacle that will warm the hearts of the NFC North) they all but said they're done with Mitch.

Because of their stupid contract with Foles they are basically stuck with him as an overpaid backup now. So they are in the hunt for a QB but they don't have a good draft position for picking one there or for trading to get someone like Watson. They absolutely don't have the cap space to get a top guy in FA (not that there's anyone other than Dak in FA that would fit the description).

So they may be looking alright, but not sure what they expect to find. I'm expecting a FA guy who will be mediocre at best, probably around equal quality to Mitch but with the one plus being that they are not Mitch. it's amazing that this manager/coach combo are being allowed another shot to be honest because they've dug a hole here.

What they might do is mortgage the future on a long shot, since they know they're fired next year without immediate progress. No doubt that will go well.

Carfacemandog · 27-01-2021 6:09pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You also have to take Brady helping the defense into account as well. Less turn overs, better field position. It's a sympathetic system, not a one way street. Tampa is a good example of the opposite, when Winston was there. Still a pretty good defense in terms of personnel, but killed by his turnovers putting them under the cosh.

It's actually the opposite - since becoming the starter, Rodgers has a higher yards per attempt (field position; 7.8 vs 7.5), a higher completion percentage (65.1% vs 64.0%), less interceptions per attempt (1.4% vs 1.8%), the tiniest bit less fumbles (0.416 per game vs 0.418), a higher TD percentage (6.3% vs 5.5%) and a better INT:TD ratio (4.6-to-1 vs 3.0-to-1). Added to that, until recently he was a good scrambling QB too while Brady has never been this.

So by the argument you have made, Rodgers has helped his defenses more than Brady.

Despite this, Tom Brady's defenses have been in the top ten for 16 of his 19 years and 10 of the last 11, while Rodgers has had a top ten defense for 3 of his 13 years as starter, and 2 of the last 11.

There really is no argument that Brady has played with the far better defenses of the two averaged out over their careers, though that is to be expected as Brady had Belichick and on average the greatest defense in the entire league of the last 20 years in his time playing (plus a top 10 Bucs defense this year).

Foxtrol · 27-01-2021 6:33pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Fox, you are the one pushing a false narrative. To act as though Rodgers hasn't had any support, or that he hasn't been consistently playing with quality personal is factually false.

Rodgers is an all time great QB, who has consistently failed to win out. Some of that is due to failures in other areas of the team, and some of it is on him. Likewise, Brady has played with good pieces around him, but also played with garbage ones. The difference is that he's won out regardless. Ted Thompson just died, and folks were rightly lauding his skill at drafting. Mccarthy was not some scrub coach who was carried to success purely through Rodgers' efforts. Why you feel the need to make up excuses to try and push the blame anywhere else but Rodgers is baffling.

I never said he didn't have any support, I said he had less support than other comparative QBs have had - which both myself and others provided evidence of this as being a fact.

Thompson drafted pretty well but rarely used FA - hampering the team drastically when it came to 'winning now' that other teams do again and again.

I call absolute bullsh1t on your claims about McCarthy. He isn't the worst coach in the world but he isn't comparable or even in within a few tiers of Belichick and Payton - the guys that coached Rodgers' peers played for most of their careers.

Forget about swapping Bill with McCarthy today, even if Bill retired I guarantee you would not be in the Patriot's thread banging on the table for McCarthy to succeed him, I suspect you'd be even appalled if he was even brought in for an interview.

Irishjg · 27-01-2021 6:38pm

Honestly lads this thread has turned in a right farce. Where the hell is the moderator. Or maybe the name of the thread should be changed to suit the crazy posts.

adrian522 · 27-01-2021 9:23pm

MOD: If you have an issue with a post please report it.

PhuckHugh · 28-01-2021 12:24pm

PhuckHugh wrote: »

Bucs and Chiefs.

Tell me how good I am... Come on.

PhuckHugh · 28-01-2021 12:31pm

As for the silly debate.... Everyone knows Rodger's is arguably the most talented QB ever... Maybe Mahomes might overtake him. But talent alone at the QB position is nothing. Rodger's had a chance to run one in and took the easy option instead of potentially being hit. I think that's the difference between him and Brady. Brady will do whatever it is to win... Rodger's is a wasted talent to date and he can blame whoever he wants but he's had the opportunity over the years to get it done but hasn't. He had enough of the ball against the Bucs but couldn't get it done... Great QBs find a way. His comments post match were disgusting... Whatever his feelings, you toe the line in post match interviews, it's what players do.

Itssoeasy · 28-01-2021 12:51pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Buccaneers @ Packers

Bills @ Chiefs

For the record I’m 6-4 in the playoffs and 167-99 for the season total.

1-1 for championship Sunday so 7-5 in the playoffs and 168-100 for the season total.

cosatron · 28-01-2021 2:23pm

PhuckHugh wrote: »

As for the silly debate.... Everyone knows Rodger's is arguably the most talented QB ever... Maybe Mahomes might overtake him. But talent alone at the QB position is nothing. Rodger's had a chance to run one in and took the easy option instead of potentially being hit. I think that's the difference between him and Brady. Brady will do whatever it is to win... Rodger's is a wasted talent to date and he can blame whoever he wants but he's had the opportunity over the years to get it done but hasn't. He had enough of the ball against the Bucs but couldn't get it done... Great QBs find a way. His comments post match were disgusting... Whatever his feelings, you toe the line in post match interviews, it's what players do.

in all fairness, what do you expect 15 mins after gut wrenching defeat. He admitted as much on the Pat Mcafee show on tuesday. He said 15 minutes prior to the interview, i was crying my eyes out with some team mates who i may not be playing with again and i was thinking about them. The way the media got to town on players is outrageous, especially that sh*tbag Mike Florio. Rodgers will be green bay till the end of his contract.

Francie · 28-01-2021 4:23pm

PhuckHugh wrote: »

Everyone knows Rodger's is arguably the most talented QB ever

I knew it, finally you admit it

Foxtrol · 28-01-2021 4:37pm

PhuckHugh wrote: »

As for the silly debate.... Everyone knows Rodger's is arguably the most talented QB ever... Maybe Mahomes might overtake him. But talent alone at the QB position is nothing. Rodger's had a chance to run one in and took the easy option instead of potentially being hit. I think that's the difference between him and Brady. Brady will do whatever it is to win... Rodger's is a wasted talent to date and he can blame whoever he wants but he's had the opportunity over the years to get it done but hasn't. He had enough of the ball against the Bucs but couldn't get it done... Great QBs find a way. His comments post match were disgusting... Whatever his feelings, you toe the line in post match interviews, it's what players do.

This has been thoroughly debunked already. Rodgers isn't making it in unless he transformed into Lamar Jackson. All Brady's 'will to do whatever it is to win either' wouldn't have gotten him a TD there with his legs either.

https://twitter.com/HaydenWinks/status/1353885443490775042?s=20

Leroy42 · 28-01-2021 4:50pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

This has been thoroughly debunked already. Rodgers isn't making it in unless he transformed into Lamar Jackson. All Brady's 'will to do whatever it is to win either' wouldn't have gotten him a TD there with his legs either.

https://twitter.com/HaydenWinks/status/1353885443490775042?s=20

Based on that no QB should ever run anywhere unless the defence has left the field.

TD is not the only outcome. Had he gained 5 or six yards, suddenly it 4th & 2, opens up the running play, QB sneak, passing play. By sticking at 4th & 8 he greatly reduced the play options and gave LaFleur and tougher call in whether to go for it.

el Fenomeno · 28-01-2021 5:20pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

All Brady's 'will to do whatever it is to win either' wouldn't have gotten him a TD there with his legs either.

Hall of Fame linebacker Brian Urlacher disagrees with this!

cosatron · 28-01-2021 5:23pm

el Fenomeno wrote: »

Hall of Fame linebacker Brian Urlacher disagrees with this!

big difference between a nearly retired brian Urlacher and devon White.:pac:

el Fenomeno · 28-01-2021 5:26pm

cosatron wrote: »

big difference between a nearly retired brian Urlacher and devon White.:pac:

While I'm obviously joking, Urlacher was in his prime and was All-Pro that year! It was 2006, only his 7th season in the league. He didn't retire for another 6 years.

Granted, he was never known for his speed

cosatron · 28-01-2021 5:31pm

el Fenomeno wrote: »

While I'm obviously joking, Urlacher was in his prime and was All-Pro that year! It was 2006, only his 7th season in the league. He didn't retire for another 6 years.

Granted, he was never known for his speed

sorry, i thought it was later in his career.

Foxtrol · 28-01-2021 5:40pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

Based on that no QB should ever run anywhere unless the defence has left the field.

TD is not the only outcome. Had he gained 5 or six yards, suddenly it 4th & 2, opens up the running play, QB sneak, passing play. By sticking at 4th & 8 he greatly reduced the play options and gave LaFleur and tougher call in whether to go for it.

Then your issues is with the previous poster that I was responding to.

Below was their comment, if they had posted the argument you're making then I would have responded differently - as you have a point.

PhuckHugh wrote: »

Rodger's had a chance to run one in

Carfacemandog · 29-01-2021 2:29pm

cosatron wrote: »

big difference between a nearly retired brian Urlacher and devon White.:pac:

If anything, the bigger difference that there is 1 defender in the open field 30 yards out, vs. 3-4 defenders inside the 10 yard line.

I'm guessing it was tongue in cheek all the same though.

eagle eye · 30-01-2021 2:58am

All this crap from one person trying anything to lessen Brady's achievements is laughable.
Fact of the matter is Brady's will to win is what separates him from the rest.
I'm a huge fan of Aaron Rodgers but there's been a question mark hanging over him his whole career as regards playoff performances.
Like many I was shocked he didn't take off that time when he had a gap. The bigger mistake though was going to Devante Adams at the back of the end zone with Allen Lazard wide open at the front of it. Tom Brady would have found Lazard.

Carfacemandog · 30-01-2021 10:52am

Not sure if that is referring to me or Foxtrol, but I have already said on a few occasions that Brady is unquestionably the goat so not sure how I'm downplaying it pointed in my direction.

Definitely agree re Adams.

Foxtrol · 30-01-2021 10:19pm

eagle eye wrote: »

All this crap from one person trying anything to lessen Brady's achievements is laughable.
Fact of the matter is Brady's will to win is what separates him from the rest.
I'm a huge fan of Aaron Rodgers but there's been a question mark hanging over him his whole career as regards playoff performances.
Like many I was shocked he didn't take off that time when he had a gap. The bigger mistake though was going to Devante Adams at the back of the end zone with Allen Lazard wide open at the front of it. Tom Brady would have found Lazard.

If you want to talk about laughable take a look at the defensiveness on show here from some. We were talking about the lack of support Rodgers received from the draft last year and then in general over his career, no one was attacking Brady or saying Rodgers is better than him - this was all about Rodgers until the white knight Brady defenders rolled into town.

I just don't get it, Patriots' fans love to bang the drum that they had the GOAT Coach, GOAT TE, GOAT Owner, GOAT set-up and all these other great players and great coaches yet when anyone else repeats it we're 'trying anything to lessen Brady's achievements'.

At this stage it is bordering on paranoia to turn it into some claim people are slandering or attacking Brady.

BonnieSituation · 31-01-2021 1:07am

Since last Sunday I have practically avoided here, Sky NFL, GMFB, PFT, Reddit NFL, NFL.com, my own NFL WhatsApp group, even the Draw Play...

It's fúcking insufferable.

We get it, Tom Brady is [insert OTT superlatives].

When the Patriots were eliminated from play off contention I felt this calm. Similar to the one I feel when Kerry get knocked out of the championship. But of course the Buccs had to go ruin it all.

Now, from the bottom of the heart of this Bronco, please for the love of God, save us Big Red!

Realt Dearg Sec · 31-01-2021 3:43am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Now, from the bottom of the heart of this Bronco, please for the love of God, save us Big Red!

If Mahomes wins two in a row it will be the same problem though.

Itssoeasy · 31-01-2021 11:09pm

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

If Mahomes wins two in a row it will be the same problem though.

Ah it won’t be. The chiefs and big red aren’t hated yet. They’re in the “can’t help but be impressed” phase of success. They’ve a long way to go before they even get to the supposed hatred level that there is for the patriots since 2001. I mean I don’t hate the team and you can’t win that much and not be good. If Brady does win in a weeks time then as far as I can find, he’d be the only QB of his level to win a super bowl with two teams. Montana, Bradshaw, Starr, staubach won Lombardis but they did it with one team.

BonnieSituation · 31-01-2021 11:19pm

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

If Mahomes wins two in a row it will be the same problem though.

No it won't.

BonnieSituation · 31-01-2021 11:20pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Ah it won’t be. The chiefs and big red aren’t hated yet. They’re in the “can’t help but be impressed” phase of success. They’ve a long way to go before they even get to the supposed hatred level that there is for the patriots since 2001. I mean I don’t hate the team and you can’t win that much and not be good. If Brady does win in a weeks time then as far as I can find, he’d be the only QB of his level to win a super bowl with two teams. Montana, Bradshaw, Starr, staubach won Lombardis but they did it with one team.

Peyton Manning says hello

eagle eye · 31-01-2021 11:55pm

BonnieSituation wrote:

No it won't.

Of course it will and the fact that they have Tyreek Hill won't help either.

Itssoeasy · 01-02-2021 12:02am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Peyton Manning says hello

Does he ? Did you notice I included names who won more than two super bowls in those names ?

Edit: BS before you point it out yes Bart starr only had two SB wins but he had NFL championships to his name.

AbusesToilets · 01-02-2021 12:05am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Peyton Manning says hello

More like the ghost of Peyton says hi.

Itssoeasy · 01-02-2021 12:07am

eagle eye wrote: »

Of course it will and the fact that they have Tyreek Hill won't help either.

Maybe I’ve missed it over however many years I’ve been on this message board but why are you so defensive over fans of other teams criticism of the patriots ? I don’t get it. The patriots record in the 21st century speaks for itself but yet patriot fans can be so ****ing touchy when other fans point on legitimate issues. Tom Brady will undoubtedly be a first ballot HOFer, and may beat the record of farve for the shortest sales pitch at the vote. But he didn’t do it alone.

eagle eye · 01-02-2021 12:20am

Itssoeasy wrote:

Maybe Iâ€™ve missed it over however many years Iâ€™ve been on this message board but why are you so defensive over fans of other teams criticism of the patriots ? I donâ€™t get it. The patriots record in the 21st century speaks for itself but yet patriot fans can be so ****ing touchy when other fans point on legitimate issues. Tom Brady will undoubtedly be a first ballot HOFer, and may beat the record of farve for the shortest sales pitch at the vote. But he didnâ€™t do it alone.

I don't normally get involved much in these arguments about the Patriots unless I see ridiculous stuff or agendas.
Tom Brady had a great tight end in Gronk. He had a bunch of receivers who were successful with him but never did it when they moved to another team.
People talking about the Patriots defense when discussing how Brady's greatness seems ridiculous.
I haven't seen any legitimate issue in this thread over the past couple of days

Itssoeasy · 01-02-2021 12:34am

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't normally get involved much in these arguments about the Patriots unless I see ridiculous stuff or agendas.
Tom Brady had a great tight end in Gronk. He had a bunch of receivers who were successful with him but never did it when they moved to another team.
People talking about the Patriots defense when discussing how Brady's greatness seems ridiculous.
I haven't seen any legitimate issue in this thread over the past couple of days

Well okay I’ll respectfully disagree with your assessment of you not getting involved. What agendas ? You are aware that other teams fans aren’t going to like your team all the time yeah ? So a receiver didn’t work out away from Brady. That’s happened in the NFL since George Halas was a chap.

Why is people discussing the defense Ridiculous ? American football is a three part game. Offence, defence and special teams. You don’t win without all working together.

BonnieSituation · 01-02-2021 12:40am

eagle eye wrote: »

Of course it will and the fact that they have Tyreek Hill won't help either.

Nah, it won't. Just so you know, I'm probably better placed to tell you how I personally feel about something.

BonnieSituation · 01-02-2021 12:43am

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Does he ? Did you notice I included names who won more than two super bowls in those names ?

Edit: BS before you point it out yes Bart starr only had two SB wins but he had NFL championships to his name.

Seriously? I've had to read your post a couple if times to see if I missed some caveat.

Manning won a SB with the Colts and a SB with the Broncos.

BonnieSituation · 01-02-2021 12:43am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

More like the ghost of Peyton says hi.

I'd love that ghost back.

BonnieSituation · 01-02-2021 12:46am

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Maybe I’ve missed it over however many years I’ve been on this message board but why are you so defensive over fans of other teams criticism of the patriots ? I don’t get it. The patriots record in the 21st century speaks for itself but yet patriot fans can be so ****ing touchy when other fans point on legitimate issues. Tom Brady will undoubtedly be a first ballot HOFer, and may beat the record of farve for the shortest sales pitch at the vote. But he didn’t do it alone.

TBF, while EE is the most obvious and noticeable proponent of this defensive attitude towards Them, he's not alone.

eagle eye · 01-02-2021 12:46am

Itssoeasy wrote:

Well okay Iâ€™ll respectfully disagree with your assessment of you not getting involved. What agendas ? You are aware that other teams fans arenâ€™t going to like your team all the time yeah ? So a receiver didnâ€™t work out away from Brady. Thatâ€™s happened in the NFL since George Halas was a chap.

Name a receiver that played with Brady that went elsewhere and was as successful. I'll save you time, you won't find one.

Itssoeasy wrote:

Why is people discussing the defense Ridiculous ? American football is a three part game. Offence, defence and special teams. You donâ€™t win without all working together.

As regards Brady the defense has nothing to do with his performances.

Itssoeasy · 01-02-2021 12:49am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Seriously? I've had to read your post a couple if times to see if I missed some caveat.

Manning won a SB with the Colts and a SB with the Broncos.
Well the QBs I listed was for a reason. It’s why I didn’t list manning. Or Aaron Rodgers or Eli manning or elway if we want to get broncos specific.

I know that. I watched both of them live.

eagle eye · 01-02-2021 12:53am

BonnieSituation wrote:

TBF, while EE is the most obvious and noticeable proponent of this defensive attitude towards Them, he's not alone.

I'm not defensive, I'm offensive.

We were the best, so good even the NFL didn't like it and tried every stupid idea they could come up with to try stop our success.
Imagine banning Brady for four games for footballs that deflated in severely cold weather and it being shown that when the balls were reinflated halftime that he played awesome football in the second half.
Imagine scientists proving that the weather was responsible for deflating the footballs and the NFL going out hiring the guys who found that passive smoking isn't dangerous to come to the conclusion that the patriots were responsible for deflating the footballs.

When I see stupid **** I'll call it.

Itssoeasy · 01-02-2021 12:53am

eagle eye wrote: »

Name a receiver that played with Brady that went elsewhere and was as successful. I'll save you time, you won't find one.

As regards Brady the defense has nothing to do with his performances.

Yeah because patriots WRs are the unique in going to other teams and not having the same level of success.

It’s pointless trying to have a honest debate when you make a blanket statement like that about the defense. Not directly but of course the defense had something to do with his performance.

BonnieSituation · 01-02-2021 12:57am

Itssoeasy wrote: »

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Seriously? I've had to read your post a couple if times to see if I missed some caveat.

Manning won a SB with the Colts and a SB with the Broncos.
Well the QBs I listed was for a reason. It’s why I didn’t list manning. Or Aaron Rodgers or Eli manning or elway if we want to get broncos specific.

I know that. I watched both of them live.

I'm obviously missing something.

You said that Brady will become the first QB to win super bowl with more than one team... I'm pointing out that Peyton had done that already.

As I said, I'm missing something you're making a point about.

ELI Eagle Eye...

BonnieSituation · 01-02-2021 12:59am

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not defensive, I'm offensive.

We were the best, so good even the NFL didn't like it and tried every stupid idea they could come up with to try stop our success.
Imagine banning Brady for four games for footballs that deflated in severely cold weather and it being shown that when the balls were reinflated halftime that he played awesome football in the second half.
Imagine scientists proving that the weather was responsible for deflating the footballs and the NFL going out hiring the guys who found that passive smoking isn't dangerous to come to the conclusion that the patriots were responsible for deflating the footballs.

When I see stupid **** I'll call it.

Oh. God.

ShyMets · 01-02-2021 10:24am

Cards on the table I've soft spot for the Jets but would be far from a hardcore fan. Maybe because of this I've no towering hatred for the Patriots. To be honest I admire what they've achieved.

With regard to Tom Brady he is undoubtedly a great QB and you can certainly make a case for him being the GOAT. If I was a Patriots fan I would relish the Brady years and not be overly bothered about what's said about him on the internet or anonymous chat forums. It wont change his stats or achievements

eagle eye · 01-02-2021 2:53pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Yeah because patriots WRs are the unique in going to other teams and not having the same level of success.

It’s pointless trying to have a honest debate when you make a blanket statement like that about the defense. Not directly but of course the defense had something to do with his performance.

Plenty of WRs have went from franchise to franchise and been successful. With Tom Brady it hasn't happened though which suggests he got the very best out of them.
I'm sure there are other great QB's that the same thing could be said about too.

eagle eye · 01-02-2021 2:55pm

ShyMets wrote: »

Cards on the table I've soft spot for the Jets but would be far from a hardcore fan. Maybe because of this I've no towering hatred for the Patriots. To be honest I admire what they've achieved.

With regard to Tom Brady he is undoubtedly a great QB and you can certainly make a case for him being the GOAT. If I was a Patriots fan I would relish the Brady years and not be overly bothered about what's said about him on the internet or anonymous chat forums. It wont change his stats or achievements

Well I used to despise the Jets but not anymore. I've liked some of the players and coaches there.

Of course if the Jets ever become successful again and we have some of the stuff happen that went on in the late 90's then things could change again.

Foxtrol · 01-02-2021 5:37pm

ShyMets wrote: »

Cards on the table I've soft spot for the Jets but would be far from a hardcore fan. Maybe because of this I've no towering hatred for the Patriots. To be honest I admire what they've achieved.

With regard to Tom Brady he is undoubtedly a great QB and you can certainly make a case for him being the GOAT. If I was a Patriots fan I would relish the Brady years and not be overly bothered about what's said about him on the internet or anonymous chat forums. It wont change his stats or achievements

I can't think of another fanbase in any sport that had such sustained incredible success and yet are so fragile about the team and players, to the point where at times they create an alternative reality to counter anything that isn't pure adulation. I suspect it has something to do with Boston's notorious small town mindset rubbing off on Irish fans through consuming their media. It would be an interesting psychological study.

As for WRs underperforming post Patriots, the same can be said for players at every other position. I presume Brady also gets the credit for the fact so many former Patriots' defensive players or other QBs that end up never reaching their previous heights after they leave the Patriots' set-up :rolleyes:

Carfacemandog · 01-02-2021 6:52pm

I will say that WRs not doing as well elsewhere does show Brady is a fantastic QB, but I don't think anyone is disputing that. Better reads and more accurate throws = more catches and more yards

For example I can't think of a WR who experienced greater success outside of GB than when Rodgers was throwing them the ball. Sure even only this summer it was bekng thrown around that the Packers had arguably the worst pass catching group in the entire league once Adams was removed.

If he were to switch teams in the summer and be replaced by Jordan Love you could be sure just about all of their stats would fall down, as they have whenever he has been injured.

Claiming defenses have nothing to do with a team and qbs successes is however, just silly (and win/loss records as well as playoff runs are usually the main thing cited by patriots fans as to Brady's greatness, so they definitely do factor into it).

eagle eye · 01-02-2021 7:00pm

Lots of Patriots at other positions excelled with other teams after leaving the Patriots.
Richard Seymour and Asante Samuel are two examples off the top of my head.

Foxtrol · 01-02-2021 7:52pm

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Claiming defenses have nothing to do with a team and qbs successes is however, just silly (and win/loss records as well as playoff runs are usually the main thing cited by patriots fans as to Brady's greatness, so they definitely do factor into it).

The stat thrown out this weekend that Goff has the 2nd most wins in the NFL since 2017 proves that point (despite how much tougher the NFCW has been over that period).

Most people believe the Rams had to pay to get rid of Goff, not that he is having some HOF caliber career. 99% of the time people understand defenses and coaching matter.

NFL Playoffs: Championship Sunday

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