Temporary 70% wage subsidy and corona virus

duffysfarm · 28-03-2020 1:23pm #1

Not sure if this is the correct forum for this but here goes.
Still getting to grips with the 70% wage subsidy rules and i ahve contacted revenue through my enquiries to see if it applies to proprietary directors. I spelt it out for them so they cant say they misunderstood the question and they said yes which to be honest i was surprised with. This morning another accountant has forwarded to me a response that they got and it says no it doesn't apply. Any one else any exeprience yet?

TitianGerm · 28-03-2020 1:35pm

duffysfarm wrote: »

Not sure if this is the correct forum for this but here goes.
Still getting to grips with the 70% wage subsidy rules and i ahve contacted revenue through my enquiries to see if it applies to proprietary directors. I spelt it out for them so they cant say they misunderstood the question and they said yes which to be honest i was surprised with. This morning another accountant has forwarded to me a response that they got and it says no it doesn't apply. Any one else any exeprience yet?

We were told it does apply but the normal income limits still apply as well. Most of the company directors who I do payroll for have said that they're not taking any salary or reducing their salaries so they can maintain cash flow for the next few weeks.

On another point we do payroll for some creches. All staff filled in Covid-19 forms day one and now on €350. The average wage for most would be around €300 so to get them back on payroll for the new scheme is causing so many rows for the creche owners. The staff don't want to give up the €350 to go back on their normal wages.

duffysfarm · 28-03-2020 1:39pm

Have just found out there is a thread on this subject on Facebook under the omnipro profot pro page. I have just applied to join this group so i can see what people are saying. I have looked at the revenue guidelines under section 3.3 and they say it applies to directors but doesnt mention proprietary directors

TitianGerm · 28-03-2020 1:44pm

duffysfarm wrote: »

Have just found out there is a thread on this subject on Facebook under the omnipro profot pro page. I have just applied to join this group so i can see what people are saying. I have looked at the revenue guidelines under section 3.3 and they say it applies to directors but doesnt mention proprietary directors

Maybe you can post back when you get access? I don't use Facebook so can't see it.

silent_spark · 28-03-2020 2:18pm

It's hard to keep up! Running payroll on Tuesday, and so far it's changed three times.

mogilvie · 28-03-2020 6:48pm

Hi,
We're a payroll software company.
Revenue have confirmed in our video conferneces that Proprietary directors are eligible for the Temporary COVID-19 Wage Subsidy Scheme.
They release Version 2 of their FAQ guide https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/documents/pmod-topics/guidance-on-operation-of-temporary-covid-wage-subsidy-scheme.pdf last night clarifying the entitlment criteria for employees.
Regards,
Mark Ogilvie
Parolla Payroll

y0ssar1an22 · 29-03-2020 2:38am

3.3. Is the scheme open to directors?
If directors are paid through the payroll system and are included in the relevant payroll submissions for an eligible
employer, then they are eligible to receive the wage subsidy.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/documents/pmod-topics/guidance-on-operation-of-temporary-covid-wage-subsidy-scheme.pdf

so if you a director paid through payroll, and you qualify for the other conditions, then yes

duffysfarm · 29-03-2020 12:57pm

i have been on the profit pro group on facebook and some one has a screen shot of a reply from revenue saying that the 70% doesnt apply to directors. there is no clear answer - i have seen the screen shot were some one is told it doesnt apply to proprietary directors and some people are saying it does and some are saying it doesnt. in my opinion and from reading other posts here it would be my opinion that it does apply but this is only an opinion!

Heres Johnny · 29-03-2020 1:20pm

duffysfarm wrote: »

i have been on the profit pro group on facebook and some one has a screen shot of a reply from revenue saying that the 70% doesnt apply to directors. there is no clear answer - i have seen the screen shot were some one is told it doesnt apply to proprietary directors and some people are saying it does and some are saying it doesnt. in my opinion and from reading other posts here it would be my opinion that it does apply but this is only an opinion!

I've read that document 100 times and the latest version says directors are included, but they have to be under 960 a week take home pay like everyone else. I'm doing a payroll run tomorrow with the payroll lady for approx 50 people but none of the directors are paid until monthly pay run on the 20th of the month which is April at this stage.

Masala · 29-03-2020 1:43pm

An employer that has been hit by a significant decline in business but has strong cash reserves, that are not required to fund debt, will still qualify for the Scheme but the Government would expect the employer to continue to pay a significant proportion of the employees’ wages.

Does that mean Ryanair, Harvey Norman etc could use the scheme.

duffysfarm · 29-03-2020 2:07pm

Also its a bit odd that they are baskng it on the net wages. You could have two people in same gross but different cut off and tax credits and one may qualify and the other may not (i am talking about the upper threshold)

duffysfarm · 29-03-2020 2:08pm

It looks like it - but i would say that there would be certain house hold names that would genuinely need it.

Masala wrote: »

An employer that has been hit by a significant decline in business but has strong cash reserves, that are not required to fund debt, will still qualify for the Scheme but the Government would expect the employer to continue to pay a significant proportion of the employees’ wages.

Does that mean Ryanair, Harvey Norman etc could use the scheme.

noodler · 29-03-2020 2:09pm

Any problem providing the 25% reduction in revenue criteria? (The company)

Masala · 29-03-2020 2:11pm

duffysfarm wrote: »

It looks like it - but i would say that there would be certain house hold names that would genuinely need it.

Sure Ryanair has 4billion in bank..

Stratvs · 29-03-2020 3:25pm

https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/documents/pmod-topics/guidance-on-operation-of-temporary-covid-wage-subsidy-scheme.pdf

Top of page 10. Surely operating W1/M1 would reduce the impact of this. People could be going next January looking for refunds and finding they’re underpaid. I’ve just done a dummy run on one and it’s giving back tax/usc on the cumulative basis as the top up uses less than half the weeks credits.

duffysfarm · 29-03-2020 4:19pm

Doubt it if harvey norman have - havent they a loss nearly every year since they opened?

Masala wrote: »

Sure Ryanair has 4billion in bank..

cityboyjim · 09-04-2020 12:35pm

Hi Guys .I own a business that has been forced to shut down for the foreseeable future .I also have an income from a day job that I am still working at.How ever my total income has now been cut to the tune of 60%. .I was prepared to take the hit for possibly two or three weeks, but am now wondering if I am entitled to the Covid 19 social welfare payment .Is my other income taken into account and how do I apply for this .I am sure there must be other people in the same position. All advice greatly appreciated .Thank you .

mogilvie · 09-04-2020 12:43pm

cityboyjim wrote: »

Hi Guys .I own a business that has been forced to shut down for the foreseeable future .I also have an income from a day job that I am still working at.How ever my total income has now been cut to the tune of 60%. .I was prepared to take the hit for possibly two or three weeks, but am now wondering if I am entitled to the Covid 19 social welfare payment .Is my other income taken into account and how do I apply for this .I am sure there must be other people in the same position. All advice greatly appreciated .Thank you .

Yes, your other income is taken into account.
If you are in receipt of an income while on the Pandemic Unemployment Payment from DEASP then they will discontinue the PUP payment.

You can however claim the Wage Subsidy Scheme with multiple employments. See section 3.12 of Version 5 of the FAQ here. So you could do that for your own business.

During the Operational Phase of the scheme Revenue will the reconcile all those earnings and nominate the maximum subsidy that you can avail of.

Mark Ogilvie
Parolla

mogilvie · 09-04-2020 12:51pm

Stratvs wrote: »

https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/documents/pmod-topics/guidance-on-operation-of-temporary-covid-wage-subsidy-scheme.pdf

Top of page 10. Surely operating W1/M1 would reduce the impact of this. People could be going next January looking for refunds and finding they’re underpaid. I’ve just done a dummy run on one and it’s giving back tax/usc on the cumulative basis as the top up uses less than half the weeks credits.

You've probably answered this yourself Stratvs elsewhere.

The govt actually wants the refunds to be paid out to in order to return more cash in hand to employees. They have specifically advised payroll software companies to not manually override the RPN and put people on W1M1. There will be a wash up at the end of the pandemic, and the tax will still be due. Revenue have stated that they will most probably address that by modifying an employees SRCOP and tax credits for the next couple of years to recover the tax. Rather than hitting people with a large bill at the end of the year.

cityboyjim · 09-04-2020 1:41pm

Thanks a million .I wonder what form do I use for the multiple employment claim for loss of income.

mogilvie · 09-04-2020 1:45pm

cityboyjim wrote: »

Thanks a million .I wonder what form do I use for the multiple employment claim for loss of income.

There are no forms for the Wage Subsidy Scheme.
The COVID-19 Wage Subsidy Scheme is administered through payroll using either a PAYE Modernisation compliant software, or the Revenue's own online payroll submission process.
You will need to have been on payroll with payslip pay date already made between Feb 1 and Feb 29, submitted before 15th March. And have met the other eligibility criteria laid out within the FAQ

Stratvs · 09-04-2020 1:49pm

mogilvie wrote: »

You've probably answered this yourself Stratvs elsewhere.

The govt actually wants the refunds to be paid out to in order to return more cash in hand to employees. They have specifically advised payroll software companies to not manually override the RPN and put people on W1M1. There will be a wash up at the end of the pandemic, and the tax will still be due. Revenue have stated that they will most probably address that by modifying an employees SRCOP and tax credits for the next couple of years to recover the tax. Rather than hitting people with a large bill at the end of the year.

Yes that's right, since that was originally posted we've now done payroll runs and as is as parts 3.11 and 4.12 in FAQ V5.0 says.

There will be a payback by many EEs just not for some time.

cityboyjim · 09-04-2020 4:33pm

No Payroll and no registered employees so its a non runner I would say .Thanks anyway .

jos28 · 13-07-2020 5:16pm

Has anyone doing payroll had an issue with your end of month/quarter returns (formerly P30). We had all staff on the TWSS during April-Jun and passed on the tax refunds as instructed. I was making our return and payment today and ROS have a higher figure due than the ones I submitted. I rang them and the difference refers to the tax rebates given by Revenue. Employers were apparently given these funds as part of the weekly refunds they received.

ari101 · 23-07-2020 10:52pm

jos28 wrote: »

Has anyone doing payroll had an issue with your end of month/quarter returns (formerly P30). We had all staff on the TWSS during April-Jun and passed on the tax refunds as instructed. I was making our return and payment today and ROS have a higher figure due than the ones I submitted. I rang them and the difference refers to the tax rebates given by Revenue. Employers were apparently given these funds as part of the weekly refunds they received.

Yes, the subsidy payment from revenue came with tax refunds where applicable, while EEs were on a cumulative basis (to 24th June for most). This means tax liability is the net amount per payroll software tax report + refunds received if any. The statement in ROS will show you the net liability, refunds received and the remaining actual liability as a result. Note these are only final once the month is over and the details have been accepted or deemed (auto acceptance after 14th of following month). Best to track amounts owed through ROS at the moment. Some payroll software have created updates that allow you to record the refunds received manually, so that you can produce a tax report showing actual liability if needed.

Stratvs · 24-07-2020 8:38am

ari101 wrote: »

Yes, the subsidy payment from revenue came with tax refunds where applicable, while EEs were on a cumulative basis (to 24th June for most). This means tax liability is the net amount per payroll software tax report + refunds received if any. The statement in ROS will show you the net liability, refunds received and the remaining actual liability as a result. Note these are only final once the month is over and the details have been accepted or deemed (auto acceptance after 14th of following month). Best to track amounts owed through ROS at the moment. Some payroll software have created updates that allow you to record the refunds received manually, so that you can produce a tax report showing actual liability if needed.

Yes our payroll software had an update to the monthly/quarterly report So that tax/usc refunded as part of the twss could be entered separately to balance the report. Mainly affected April /May as once the w1 basis was implemented the refunds of tax/usc stopped.

Temporary 70% wage subsidy and corona virus

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