RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

MarinersBlues · 27-06-2019 1:24pm

Straffan1979 wrote: »

They can do that with any breed; well let’s lock down all dog exports so if that’s what it’ll take;

The problem here now is we’re gone totally off point- and the reason for that is some editor of that programme brought the use of dogs as a food source in Asia into this debate about Greyhound racing with a view to getting a sensational outpouring of disgust from the general public- its why we have the Broadcasting Act and associated Law.

Exactly.

RTE's fundamental point about overproduction of dogs was bang on.

When they went the senationalist route they clouded the issue and tarred thousands of people with one brush.

I spoke to a few guys I used to be involved in dogs with last night and the unanimous response was disgust and "if that's what they are at - **** them!"

Bannasidhe · 27-06-2019 1:26pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am not sure what to believe TBH.

One poster says trainers here are disgusted at the idea of sending dogs to china etc the other says its the IGB's own policy.

You can't both be right!

One said it was a strategic plan to export dogs and become involved in greyhound racing in China but was dropped due to public backlash and inability to get licences. Yet it is known dogs were sent to China. The other poster admitted this.
One poster can also supply links where this plan is discussed by greyhound breeders. Some of whom moan that a different minister would have been more helpful.

3rd May 2011

“The export of Irish greyhounds to the People's Republic of China”

Minister of State, Shane Mc Entee, TD

RELEVANT TEXT AS FOLLOWS, Shane Mc Entee TD.
‘The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food is aware that Bord na gCon is exploring possible business opportunities in China and has been in contact with the Department in this regard. I would like to inform the House that today I met the Chairman and Chief Executive of Bord na gCon to discuss the proposal. I made it clear to Bord na gCon that I am not in a position to approve the project as presented. It was agreed that Bord na gCon would modify its proposal to exclude the export of greyhounds from Ireland but would continue to explore possibilities of developing the proposal to assist in the management of greyhound racing in China.’

https://www.indymedia.ie/article/99680?author_name=H&userlanguage=ga&save_prefs=true

IGB deal with China being discussed on a greyhound forum here: http://www.greyhound-data.com/knowledge.php?b=2&note=822620
http://www.greyhound-data.com/knowledge.php?b=4&note=1209769

2011 IGB "China Deal" mentioned on the Irish Greyhounds Owners and Breeders Federation website here

1. A pro-active approach to repair the damage of the IGB’s 2011 ‘China Deal’ is required by developing a welfare PR campaign that is aligned to their sales & marketing activities

https://pietas.ie/website16/index.php/news/12-post11

ILoveYourVibes · 27-06-2019 1:27pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

One said it was a strategic plan to export dogs and become involved in greyhound racing in China but was dropped due to public backlash and inability to get licences. Yet it is known dogs were sent to China. The other poster admitted this.
One poster can also supply links where this plan is discussed by greyhound breeders. Some of whom moan that a different minister would have been more helpful.

https://www.indymedia.ie/article/99680?author_name=H&userlanguage=ga&save_prefs=true

IGB deal with China being discussed on a greyhound forum here: http://www.greyhound-data.com/knowledge.php?b=2&note=822620
http://www.greyhound-data.com/knowledge.php?b=4&note=1209769

2011 IGB "China Deal" mentioned on the Irish Greyhounds Owners and Breeders Federation website here https://pietas.ie/website16/index.php/news/12-post11

Thank you. That is very valuable and insightful information that i would not have been able to find alone.

What a barmy idea it was though. Thankfully it never went ahead.

MarinersBlues · 27-06-2019 1:31pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

One said it was a strategic plan to export dogs and become involved in greyhound racing in China but was dropped due to public backlash and inability to get licences. Yet it is known dogs were sent to China. The other poster admitted this.
One poster can also supply links where this plan is discussed by greyhound breeders. Some of whom moan that a different minister would have been more helpful.

You will also note that many of the responses to this from 2012 and 2017 were concerns for welfare of dogs, including people saying they hoped it didn't go ahead.

ILoveYourVibes · 27-06-2019 1:34pm

Here is the Documentary in full on youtube.

For those who have not seen it.

Warning if you are triggered etc or easily upset don't watch.

InTheShadows · 27-06-2019 1:36pm

strandroad wrote: »

And senators.

If possible yes.

ILoveYourVibes · 27-06-2019 1:38pm

Someone should post the link to the documentary in the greyhound racing forum.

Or perhaps mods feel its inappropriate or trolling i don't know.

27-06-2019 1:45pm

Discodog wrote: »

One thing that wasn't mentioned in the program was that some rescues won't criticise the industry because they get money from the IGB.

As well as grants directly from the government.

Bannasidhe · 27-06-2019 1:46pm

MarinersBlues wrote: »

You will also note that many of the responses to this from 2012 and 2017 were concerns for welfare of dogs, including people saying they hoped it didn't go ahead.

The fact remains the IGB developed a strategic plan to export greyhounds to China so it is not 'disingenuous' to say there are links.
It is also a fact that greyhounds were exported to China.

It's a pity that all the voiced concern for the welfare of dogs didn't translate into the industry cleaning up it's act - 2017 is the same year Clonbrien Hero tested positive for cocaine three times and while the investigation was on-going still ran and won the Irish St Leger in Limerick. https://www.independent.ie/sport/greyhounds/champion-greyhound-that-tested-positive-for-cocaine-claims-25k-st-leger-in-limerick-36294129.html

MarinersBlues · 27-06-2019 1:54pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The fact remains the IGB developed a strategic plan to export greyhounds to China so it is not 'disingenuous' to say there are links.

This is what I said.

Trying to connect the regular greyhound man in Ireland with what is happening in China is disingenuous at the very least.

The links you posted support that.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It's a pity that all the voiced concern for the welfare of dogs didn't translate into the industry cleaning up it's act - 2017 is the same year Clonbrien Hero tested positive for cocaine three times and while the investigation was on-going still ran and won the Irish St Leger in Limerick. https://www.independent.ie/sport/greyhounds/champion-greyhound-that-tested-positive-for-cocaine-claims-25k-st-leger-in-limerick-36294129.html

There has been large scale loss of owners because of welfare issues. Doping and wastage.
Highcourt appeals and other issues have stalled efforts to clear out people who don't seem to care for the welfare of their dogs.

Hopefully the new legislation this year will mean the IGB and the ICC can warn off these people.
Hopefully this program will ensure they start dealing with it in a radical and drastic way.

strandroad · 27-06-2019 2:03pm

MarinersBlues wrote: »

Hopefully the new legislation this year will mean the IGB and the ICC can warn off these people.
Hopefully this program will ensure they start dealing with it in a radical and drastic way.

I don't think the new legislation covers overbreeding and means of disposal, and it does not cover exports. From the descriptions it's just window dressing. You can read debates online on oireachtas.ie.
Doping etc was illegal already, simply not enforced, so no change there.

Bannasidhe · 27-06-2019 2:04pm

MarinersBlues wrote: »

This is what I said.

The links you posted support that.

There has been large scale loss of owners because of welfare issues. Doping and wastage.
Highcourt appeals and other issues have stalled efforts to clear out people who don't seem to care for the welfare of their dogs.

Hopefully the new legislation this year will mean the IGB and the ICC can warn off these people.
Hopefully this program will ensure they start dealing with it in a radical and drastic way.

Too little too late.
Both had ample opportunity to deal with issues in a radical way but did nothing.
There is absolutely no justification for government support for this industry and no reason to believe the IGB are interested and capable of cleaning it up. They have only acted when public outcry or scandals such as positive drugs tests forced them to and even then their actions have being nothing more than PR exercises.

xckjoo · 27-06-2019 2:07pm

Deleted User wrote: »

As well as grants directly from the government.

Most animal welfare organisations get no funding from the government.

ILoveYourVibes · 27-06-2019 2:08pm

So if people do something what is it to be??

I think a positive campaign with cute adorable pictures will help too. I know there are other people who prefer different approaches etc.
Tagline.

Who could resist this face??

Kill the other side with cuteness.

ILoveYourVibes · 27-06-2019 2:09pm

xckjoo wrote: »

Most animal welfare organisations get no funding from the government.

Even the DSPCA gets almost nothing from the govt like only 5 % of their budget.

strandroad · 27-06-2019 2:10pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

So if people do something what is it to be??

Kill the other side with cuteness.

Interestingly enough you never see greyhound puppies in rescues, why is that I wonder.

xckjoo · 27-06-2019 2:12pm

strandroad wrote: »

Interestingly enough you never see greyhound puppies in rescues, why is that I wonder.

GSPCA is constantly full of greyhound and lurcher puppies. They have rehoming strategies that usually means they end up in other European countries that care more for sighthounds.

Always Tired · 27-06-2019 2:13pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As well as grants directly from the government.

No they don't, that's why in the Northwest where I live they have had to close.

strandroad · 27-06-2019 2:14pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Even the DSPCA gets almost nothing from the govt like only 5 % of their budget.

They have to reapply for it every year, most get nothing, some get a fraction of their costs, and the entire budget is 2.5 or 3 mln.

And yet it is on the back of these rescues that the kill rate in Irish pounds fell so much in recent years (also due to social media allowing rescues to promote dogs better and faster, credit where credit is due).

IGB should have a few million taken off them and given to rescues to be ringfenced for greyhounds.

ILoveYourVibes · 27-06-2019 2:14pm

strandroad wrote: »

Interestingly enough you never see greyhound puppies in rescues, why is that I wonder.

Maybe they get adopted too quick for being so cute!

I actually don't know.

There are lots of adult ones.

strandroad · 27-06-2019 2:15pm

xckjoo wrote: »

GSPCA is constantly full of greyhound and lurcher puppies. They have rehoming strategies that usually means they end up in other European countries that care more for sighthounds.

Lurcher puppies yes, racing background greyhound puppies no. They are just not released for rehoming, trainers might give up adult dogs but not puppies. Not sure why, some must be visibly not promising, and I think they eliminate females as slower? Not sure on the latter just something I overheard.

MarinersBlues · 27-06-2019 2:21pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Too little too late.
Both had ample opportunity to deal with issues in a radical way but did nothing.
There is absolutely no justification for government support for this industry and no reason to believe the IGB are interested and capable of cleaning it up. They have only acted when public outcry or scandals such as positive drugs tests forced them to and even then their actions have being nothing more than PR exercises.

It's never too late to do right thing.

Like I said, if they ever do get their act together I'll be looking to buy a dog.
I think alot of the supporters that they have lost will be of the same frame of mind.

MarinersBlues · 27-06-2019 2:26pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Both had ample opportunity to deal with issues in a radical way but did nothing.

Just one final point.

You will have picked up that I am frustrated with the IGB and ICC for not doing enough.
However, the traioners/owners that they have reprimanded and from whom they have tried to take prize money etc. Have all appealed to the high courts which drags the whole ordeal into years and costs the boards money in legal fees.

The new legisaltion will prevent that, so they will have more potential power now.

xckjoo · 27-06-2019 2:28pm

MarinersBlues wrote: »

It's never too late to do right thing.

Like I said, if they ever do get their act together I'll be looking to buy a dog.
I think alot of the supporters that they have lost will be of the same frame of mind.

They're awesome dogs and love to run so I don't see an issue with the sport itself, but sighthounds have a history of awful treatment in this country so it'll be an uphill battle. The bad eggs in the bunch are so rotten that their taint has a far reach.

If IGB had any sense they'd go hardcore on the animal welfare side and make it their mission to make greyhounds loved and make themselves the champions of their well being.

Awesome dogs though. Perfect family pet. Lazy as anything

27-06-2019 2:29pm

Always Tired wrote: »

No they don't, that's why in the Northwest where I live they have had to close.

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/animalhealthwelfare/animalwelfare/exgratiafunding/Listof2018awardsToWelfareOrgs020119.pdf

€2.75 million isn’t to be sniffed at!

MarinersBlues · 27-06-2019 2:30pm

xckjoo wrote: »

They're awesome dogs and love to run so I don't see an issue with the sport itself, but sighthounds have a history of awful treatment in this country so it'll be an uphill battle. The bad eggs in the bunch are so rotten that their taint has a far reach.

If IGB had any sense they'd go hardcore on the animal welfare side and make it their mission to make greyhounds loved and make themselves the champions of their well being.

Awesome dogs though. Perfect family pet. Lazy as anything

They are big peatas

:D
Fantastic dogs for children to grow up with

Bannasidhe · 27-06-2019 2:33pm

MarinersBlues wrote: »

Just one final point.

You will have picked up that I am frustrated with the IGB and ICC for not doing enough.
However, the traioners/owners that they have reprimanded and from whom they have tried to take prize money etc. Have all appealed to the high courts which drags the whole ordeal into years and costs the boards money in legal fees.

The new legisaltion will prevent that, so they will have more potential power now.

I do not share your belief that the IGB, or the Dept of Agriculture for that matter, - regardless of what legislation is in place will act until they are forced to.
We already have reams of Animal Welfare legislation on the Statute Book and whether or not it is enforced is best described as hit and miss - mostly miss.
It's left to Rescues to pick up the pieces and as they are unregulated some of those are part of the problem making it even harder for the genuine, well run, rescues to cope with what is a genuine animal welfare crises.

archer22 · 27-06-2019 2:33pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Where do they receive tax payers money ..i wasn't aware of that?

Government gives huge grants to Horse racing Ireland...Horse racing Ireland allocates money to the Fox hunters Point to Point races.

As you are probably well aware the Point to Points are one of the major if not the major source of income for Fox Hunts.

ILoveYourVibes · 27-06-2019 2:35pm

xckjoo wrote: »

They're awesome dogs and love to run so I don't see an issue with the sport itself, but sighthounds have a history of awful treatment in this country so it'll be an uphill battle. The bad eggs in the bunch are so rotten that their taint has a far reach.

If IGB had any sense they'd go hardcore on the animal welfare side and make it their mission to make greyhounds loved and make themselves the champions of their well being.

Awesome dogs though. Perfect family pet. Lazy as anything

Lot of misconceptions.

For instance if you walk five or more out publicly they need to be muzzled. But if you are walking one you dont need to muzzle them.

People always see trainers walking five at a time with muzzles and think they are vicious etc.

Bannasidhe · 27-06-2019 2:36pm

MarinersBlues wrote: »

They are big peatas :D
Fantastic dogs for children to grow up with

On that we agree!
They are sofa hogging, counter surfing, lazy, affectionate, gentle dogs prone to the occasional zoomies.

No - I don't personally have a greyhound but I know loads of them. I have jack russells aka Yap monster mucksavages.

RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

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