Avengers: Endgame [** SPOILERS FROM POST 613 **]

El Duda wrote: »

You can tell when people have started watching new releases via dodgy, poor quality download can't you?

Its funny when there is a sudden spat of negative reviews miraculously appearing inbetween the end of the cinema run and the release of the DVD. It happens in most threads on here.

If someone reviewed a film badly based solely on the quality of the medium which they watched it via, then I wouldn't have much faith in any of their opinions.

I'd say it's more to do with the fact that DVD/Digital/Blueray allows for closer inspection of the film. They can pause, rewind and rewatch to their heart's content. Coupled with watching it in your living room as opposed to the full cinematic experience, I imagine a lot of viewers get a bit more picky and less enthralled.And as you say, that can apply to any film once it comes out for general release after it's cinematic run.

Ethereal Cereal wrote: »

Rewatched it at the weekend there hoping I would see something I missed in the cinema release.

The whole thing still didn't make any sense. I think what Banner is trying to explain about time travel, is Novikov self-consistency principle. That is to say, you can travel back in time, but you can not do anything that will change the future, the future is immutable. Anything you do in the past, is part of your past, and can be the reason an event occurs in the future. Some movies that followed this principle are 12 Monkeys, Terminator (1), Primer, The Time Travelers Wife.

So in effect, the Snap event could not be avoided. But then why did Tony instruct Banner not to change anything about the last 5 years, was that an option? Could they have undone the massive collateral damage of the snap? How did everyone suddenly agree the future can not be changed, they had no experience with time travel before that. Are they infinity stones from the past, or from alternate realities (as per the Ancient One)

It's not that the future is immutable or that the Snap couldn't have been avoided, it's more so that the Snap already happened, and so any changes to the timeline they made would have prevented the Snap happening in that new alternate reality, but wouldn't have changed their reality, because when they travel back to the point in time they left from (5 year post-Snap), they're back in a reality where the Snap happened which caused them to have to go back in time. They're not changing their past or future, just creating an alternate one.

So the infinity stones they used are still from their reality but from their past, and Cap returns them to the point they were taken from in order to prevent the creation of alternate realities. For example, if they didn't return the Time Stone to the Ancient One, Doctor Strange wouldn't have been able to use it to defeat Dormammu, and Dormammu would have destroyed the universe even before the Snap could happen.

The reason they decided to only bring everyone who was snapped away to the present is mostly because Tony didn't want to lose his daughter. I would think they all agreed on that as the same would go for many other people in the world who, after the Snap, moved on. Whether they also had children or made new relationships etc, the Avengers wouldn't have the right to decide to just wipe that all away from people. So they were just bringing everyone back, and the choice on how to deal with all that lies with the individuals. If they just undid the Snap and rewound time to immediately after the Snap, they'd essentially be Snapping away anyone born in those 5 years themselves.

While there's obviously still huge ramifications of 3.5billion people suddenly reappearing on Earth and the consequences of what happened over those 5 years, it was also the fairest way. Bring back the lives lost in the Snap, and people just have to deal with the consequences of that, same way they had to deal with the consequences of those people being snapped away in the first place. The Avengers wouldn't have the right to make such a huge choice for them, which we've seen given how Tony didn't want to lose his daughter (and only agreed to help based on same), but also Cap's general attitude in that regard when it came to the likes of Hydra, Loki, or the Sokovia Accords.

pixelburp wrote: »

Endgame was a perfect chance to put the series to bed for a few years. Just 4,5 maybe, enough time to rekindle the hype and desire. Nope, straight into new films not 6 months later - and that timeline during Comic Con showed the production line in full effect (the audience seals of course clapping with joy)

Then again, Far From Home made a billion so what do I know?

But that's your opinion which your entitled , take a break from them , the comic con timeline that was showed I'm hyped for those so I'm a seal ........this is what I don't like about threads like this people have opinions but then insult others who don't share it ...

brianregan09 wrote: »

But that's your opinion which your entitled , take a break from them , the comic con timeline that was showed I'm hyped for those so I'm a seal ........this is what I don't like about threads like this people have opinions but then insult others who don't share it ...

I agree. I also think Marvel have shown they're switching the slant of the movies a bit to focus on more space/cosmic/magic-type movies for the next while, with Eternals, Thor 4 and Dr.Strange 2. This will move things away from Earth a bit and allow the directors to be more creative, in the same vein as Thor Ragnarok and the GOTG movies.

Marvel's announcements at ComicCon were cheered because a) they're fans at ComicCon so of course they're more predisposed to cheer something like that, and b) most people (judging by the numbers and reception to Endgame) don't need time to rekindle the hype and desire, because it still hasn't dwindled for them. Marvel may definitely hit a post-Endgame slump as the MCU has to rebuild itself and pull things back a bit, but there's also no reason to stop or take a few years off either as people are clearly still hyped for the next phase of movies and the announcements which were made.

I think they're taking the Thor and Dr.Strange movies in interesting directions, Eternals has a decent cast and could be good (though I know nothing of the characters so it'll be the first Marvel movie I'm going in almost completely blind to), Black Widow will presumably have a darker tone than most MCU movies and it'll be great to see her backstory, and Shang Chi if they really lean into the martial arts could produce some of the best actual fight scenes in the MCU (rather than GFX and powers/abilities).

And that's not even including the likes of Blade, F4 and XMen coming further down the line, plus some of the Disney+ TV shows could be great.

If being excited about all that makes one a seal, I hope I'm a thoroughly entertained seal.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Tony sacrificed his own life to defeat Thanos, which is a pretty big sacrifice to make.

Interestingly, Captain America claimed in one of the earlier movies, in his standard Cap high horse way, that Tony would never sacrifice anything for the greater good. In the end it turned out that Tony made the ultimate sacrifice while Captain America never really sacrificed anything, by having the two most important people to him brought back into his life and living happily ever after.

I think the whole thing about Cap claiming Tony wouldn't sacrifice himself if it came down to it payed off in Avengers 1. We all know Cap would have sacrificed himself if he needed to, and pretty much did so at the end of CA:TFA (though he survived). We already knew Cap was a hero. But up until then the enemies Tony fought in IM1&2 were small-time conflicts, and ones where the enemy was gunning specifically for him.

In The Avengers, Tony showed he would actually sacrifice his own life if it came down to it, by directing the nuke into space at the risk of his own life (though like Cap, he survived). I don't think there was any real question (to the audience or to Cap) that Tony would sacrifice his life if it meant undoing the Snap. Tony was just reluctant to join the fight at the start of Endgame because he just didn't think it was possible.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Agree with all of that. I'm not questioning whether Cap would have sacrificed himself, he'd do it every day of the weak and twice on Sundays, but more the fact that it is interesting in the end the most important things to Cap worked out and the guy he previously questioned ended up making the sacrifice.

Aye. I think it's an interesting comparison to Cap too in that all he wanted was to be able to join the fight, ended up becoming not just a soldier but a super-soldier and was always willing to sacrifice whatever he had for the fight. In Age Of Ultron when Wanda gave him that vision, he couldn't even really imagine just being able to dance with Peggy, war was still on his mind, to the point where at the end of AOU and the new Avengers Facility, he feels more at home because there are soldiers there training.

I think by the start of Endgame, he already knows he needs to give up the fight and get a life, but he can't because the Snap is still unfinished business. Once they win, I think he realises he's just no longer a soldier any more. He doesn't want to fight any more. The man of war finally finds his peace.

I understand for fans that they obviously like the movie and it is somewhat entertaining. I enjoyed it for what it is - another dumb superhero movie.

But anyone saying this is a good or great movie. It just isn't. It's the same tired old formula rehashed yet again. Even for an MCU movie I thought it was poorly executed in terms of dialogue, tone, pacing. There is nothing new, inventive or creative here.

Personally I'd like to see talent used on other movies with fresh ideas now rather than have it wasted on another 10 years of MCU movies.

Like I said though I enjoyed the movie for what it is. Dumb, entertaining and forgettable.

pixelburp wrote: »

The name calling is for the convention attendees who clap and applaud every benign announcement, I find the hyper fandom found at those things - and I extend it out to others like E3 - unappealing. Such is the way of American crowds mind you, they tend to whoop everything, including at cinemas so *shrug*. But g',way taking insult not actually aimed at anyone here :rolleyes:

Like, I don't feel like defending my comic bona fides, but yeah, I DO feel superhero fatigue because they are literally everywhere now; The Boys on Amazon showing that we really have entered the deconstructionist phase. Everyone has their limit and I think I'm hitting it.

It's only lately, but this sense of a neverending production line, conveyed by the post Endgame timeline, doesn't make the MCU feel special, unique or exciting anymore. Just a procession of corporate necessity because this series will not stop for anything. Disney+ ramming this growing ennui home with their double header of MCU + Star Wars.

The main problem I foresee in the actual films is a sense of scale: Thanos will be a hard threat to top, and looking at the current roster I feel nothing to garner excitement. In fact, I outright hate some of the new characters ; Dr Strange, Captain Marvel, to name two, will need to perform wonders to get me to their sequels. The latter the first MCU film I really hated and thought genuinely subpar. Far From Home didn't inspire and yeah, like I said I'm hitting my limit. With Cap, Stark and Black Widow, the series feels "done".

Thanos does seem a hard threat to top at this point, but we're still very much in post Endgame times and there's a long way to go. When I sat down to watch the first IronMan film I never envisaged that anything like Infinity War & Endgame would happen, so who knows what lays ahead.

With the recent wranglings over Fantastic Four and Xmen and Marvel now having control of these characters, I wouldn't be surprised if the big bad of Phase 4 is Galactus or similar.

ManOfMystery wrote: »

Thanos does seem a hard threat to top at this point, but we're still very much in post Endgame times and there's a long way to go. When I sat down to watch the first IronMan film I never envisaged that anything like Infinity War & Endgame would happen, so who knows what lays ahead.

With the recent wranglings over Fantastic Four and Xmen and Marvel now having control of these characters, I wouldn't be surprised if the big bad of Phase 4 is Galactus or similar.

I don't think there are any plans for an over-arching villain in Phase 4 at all. Perhaps we might see hints about possible ones but there are no real team-up movies planned for Phase 4, certainly no Avengers movies. By the time Phase 5 comes around with Cap.Marvel 2 and Black Panther 2, as well as likely F4 and possibly even XMen, then they might start ramping up towards the next big villain or universe-ending threat but one who might not even be encountered until Phase 6 or later.

The best way to top Thanos is to not try, but rather let things reset themselves a bit and then just proceed with the next big villain, and let the story dictate how big or serious the threat is.

sabat wrote: »

Shame on anyone over the age of 15 who thinks this is a good film.

I'm sorry, did you get on a roller coaster and expect Shakespeare? :rolleyes:

sabat wrote: »

Shame on anyone over the age of 15 who thinks this is a good film.

Tazzimus wrote: »

2/10, poor effort

The film, or the post?

Like this



For the full effect watch it with sound on this link - it's well worth a listen.

TheBlock wrote: »

It's also fake....

Really?!! Haha, had me fooled :P

micks_address wrote: »

Picked up my 4k hdr uhd copy in best buy last nght. I know whats going to be on my tv over the weekend. I've actually watched it about 4 times now.. since the cinema on various mediums. I would say it stacks up pretty well to repeat viewings.. it sort of drags after thanos killing at the start for a while.. but once the time travel kicks in its a lot of fun.. ok its a cheap way to relive pretty much all the other movies from various perspectives but it works well and ive picked up few extra things each time i watch.. the falcons 'on your left' as they all re appear and tony last lines are still pretty epic.. his lines bookend perfectly with the end of iron man.. i still feel the Cap ending is a little off.. i know they had little choice with evans wanting out but Sam doesnt seem to be cap to me.. he has no super serum like cap had.. anyone with enough training and money could be batman.. but how to you substitute super strength? it might have worked with bucky but his cv was just far to shady to be cap america..

as far as black widow it would have been a lot easier to let hawkeye die.. i doubt he has nearly as much franchise potental as black widow and i feel like he could have probably died in ultron as they pretty much teased it at every turn.

ah well it sure be interesting to see where they go with it.

The thing with Sam is he doesn't really have the money he is an army vet, the only way it makes sense is they are depowering Captain America so as to free the spotlight for the next phase.

I think the whole black widow dying was not actually bad story telling and fit really well in with who Natasha had become. It also was good from perspective of putting a women into a meaningful role, probably one of the few in the film. In my mind it shat all over the female power assemble crap at the end.

micks_address wrote: »

i still feel the Cap ending is a little off.. i know they had little choice with evans wanting out but Sam doesnt seem to be cap to me.. he has no super serum like cap had.. anyone with enough training and money could be batman.. but how to you substitute super strength? it might have worked with bucky but his cv was just far to shady to be cap america..

For me, Sam works as the new Cap because he embodies the side of Cap that's always willing to fight for what he believes is right, he always had Caps back. He might not be worthy enough to weild Mjolnier but he's not far off

As for him not being super strong, his wings aren't a bad power to have and it'll be something different

Bucky couldn't be the new Cap because he's been fighting for too long on the wrong side albeit under control