Insured driver getting stopped no tax

kingbhome · 25-01-2020 8:55pm #1

As the insurer of a motar viechle with a named driver under it, do I have a right to know all details of when the person was stopped with no tax, no license on them. I forget to tax it for some weeks and the driver was stopped however they said the guard who stopped them didn't do tgem for no tax. They where stopped a few times in that year but they can't remember where and when and what the outcome was because theyve been so busy that year.

As the insurer of the car, I would like to know all details of the stops incase it effets my renewal insurance costs when renewing soon but do I have a legal right to know or do I just have to go on face value with what I'm being told.

Truckermal · 25-01-2020 9:01pm

Surely to God you have a reasonably good relationship with someone insured to drive your vehicle?

mikeecho · 25-01-2020 9:25pm

It's actually the registered owner obligation to know who was driving the car at any given time.

It's not up to the Gardai /RSA etc to inform the owner.

It 8s however the obligation of the registered owner to inform the Gardai

It's a one way street

kingbhome · 25-01-2020 10:01pm

Truckermal wrote: »

Surely to God you have a reasonably good relationship with someone insured to drive your vehicle?

Of course, but people do lie.

kingbhome · 25-01-2020 10:03pm

mikeecho wrote: »

It's actually the registered owner obligation to know who was driving the car at any given time.

It's not up to the Gardai /RSA etc to inform the owner.

It 8s however the obligation of the registered owner to inform the Gardai

It's a one way street

Who was driving is not in question. What I want to know, if the driver was stopped and no tax was on the car, do I have a legal right to ask for these details if I was to look for them.

aaakev · 25-01-2020 10:12pm

This will not affect your insurance renewal if that's what you are asking

Atlantic Dawn · 25-01-2020 10:17pm

Have a look at the paper motor tax disc on the car which shows when the tax is valid for, when driving on the road without it being valid there's a risk of being fined.

Spook_ie · 25-01-2020 10:20pm

Does it matter? The car was untaxed, unless it was subject to SORN then surely the owner of the vehicle is responsible?

Pawwed Rig · 25-01-2020 10:21pm

I would suggest taking the keys off someone you can't trust

aaakev · 25-01-2020 10:26pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Does it matter? The car was untaxed, unless it was subject to SORN then surely the owner of the vehicle is responsible?

Since when do we use SORN in Ireland?

Spook_ie · 25-01-2020 11:24pm

aaakev wrote: »

Since when do we use SORN in Ireland?

Since to prevent being liable for motortax you fill out a form and declare the vehicle as being off road.

Pedants do as pedants do

Statutory Off Road Notification ( SORN ) or Non-Use of Motor Vehicles Act 2013 Declaration ( NUMVA(2013)D )

you decide which is easier to type!

CiniO · 25-01-2020 11:53pm

mikeecho wrote: »

It's actually the registered owner obligation to know who was driving the car at any given time.

To be honest I tried looking up appropriate legislations good few times, and never came across such requirement.

I honestly don't believe that knowing who was driving my car at what time/date is my legal obligation.

Obviously I'm open to being proven wrong.

PukkaStukka · 25-01-2020 11:54pm

kingbhome wrote: »

Who was driving is not in question. What I want to know, if the driver was stopped and no tax was on the car, do I have a legal right to ask for these details if I was to look for them.

Owner and user are equally liable. If you own an untaxed car and someone else driving it is prosecuted for having no tax, you as owner would be prosecuted too.

mikeecho · 26-01-2020 12:20am

CiniO wrote: »

To be honest I tried looking up appropriate legislations good few times, and never came across such requirement.

I honestly don't believe that knowing who was driving my car at what time/date is my legal obligation.

Obviously I'm open to being proven wrong.

I've no intention of looking it up at this time of night, but , if you ever receive an FCPN , it'll state that you (the registered owner) are obliged to name who was in charge of the vehicle at the time of the offence.

Spook_ie · 26-01-2020 12:27am

CiniO wrote: »

To be honest I tried looking up appropriate legislations good few times, and never came across such requirement.

I honestly don't believe that knowing who was driving my car at what time/date is my legal obligation.

Obviously I'm open to being proven wrong.

If the car is caught speeding the summons/FCPN is sent to the registered owner, it's up to them to notify who was driving at the time or take it the penalties them selves

Spook_ie · 26-01-2020 12:29am

Just as a curiosity about this, are we talking about a taxi seeing as you don't seem to know the driver personally?

mikeecho · 26-01-2020 12:30am

CiniO wrote: »

To be honest I tried looking up appropriate legislations good few times, and never came across such requirement.

I honestly don't believe that knowing who was driving my car at what time/date is my legal obligation.

Obviously I'm open to being proven wrong.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/107/enacted/en/html

Road Traffic Act, 1961

107.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána alleges to a person using a mechanically propelled vehicle that the member suspects that such person has committed a specified offence under this Act, the member may demand of such person his name and address and may, if such person refuses or fails to give his name and address or gives a name or address which the member has reasonable grounds for believing to be false or misleading, arrest such person without warrant.

(2) Where a member of the Garda Síochána has reasonable grounds for believing that an offence under this Act has been committed and that the vehicle in relation to which the offence was committed does not carry its identification mark under the Roads Act, 1920 , or any other enactment, the member may arrest without warrant the person whom he has reasonable grounds for believing was using the vehicle when the offence was so believed to have been committed.

(3) Where a person, when his name and address is demanded of him under this section, refuses or fails to give his name and address or gives a name or address which is false or misleading, such person shall be guilty of an offence.

(4) Where a member of the Garda Síochána has reasonable grounds for believing that there has been an offence under this Act involving the use of a mechanically propelled vehicle—

(a) the owner of the vehicle shall, if required by the member state whether he was or was not actually using the vehicle at the material time and, if he fails to do so, shall be guilty of an offence,

(b) if the owner of the vehicle states that he was not actually using it at the material time, he shall give such information as he may be required by the member to give as to the identity of the person who was actually using it at that time and, if he fails to do so, shall be guilty of an offence unless he shows to the satisfaction of the court that he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who that person was,

Basically.. the owner is responsible for any ticket / offence unless he can prove to a judge that he was not in charge of the vehicle, or that it is not possible for him to know who was in charge of the vehicle at the time (ie. The vehicle was stolen at the time) , because either the driver had your permission to drive the vehicle or not .

If the driver had your permission, you have to state who it was, if you don't know who was driving it.. did that person have your permission . If not it was a stolen car.

mikeecho · 26-01-2020 12:46am

kingbhome wrote: »

Who was driving is not in question. What I want to know, if the driver was stopped and no tax was on the car, do I have a legal right to ask for these details if I was to look for them

No you don't

Markcheese · 26-01-2020 1:04am

I remember getting pulled for no tax in a company van , (I hadn't even realised the tax was out ),
Fine came to me , garda told me it was my responsibility as driver to ensure the van was taxed ...

mikeecho · 26-01-2020 1:38am

Markcheese wrote: »

I remember getting pulled for no tax in a company van , (I hadn't even realised the tax was out ),
Fine came to me , garda told me it was my responsibility as driver to ensure the van was taxed ...

Thats correct.

The driver is responsible for the vehicle.

If the tyres were bald you'd also be responsible.
That's why employers state that you need to do a vehicle safety check .

punisher5112 · 26-01-2020 1:41am

Markcheese wrote: »

I remember getting pulled for no tax in a company van , (I hadn't even realised the tax was out ),
Fine came to me , garda told me it was my responsibility as driver to ensure the van was taxed ...

Same with me as a db driver.

All buses are taxed but sometimes disc is missing or never fitted.

Technical of course and we would be fined but job will pay.

kevinc565 · 26-01-2020 1:46am

mikeecho wrote: »

It's actually the registered owner obligation to know who was driving the car at any given time.

It's not up to the Gardai /RSA etc to inform the owner.

It 8s however the obligation of the registered owner to inform the Gardai

It's a one way street

Clearly that's not the case as if someone stole your car you would be in breach of the law.

What the law says is that you can only give permission for someone to use the car if you believe they can lawfully do so.

punisher5112 · 26-01-2020 1:54am

Twoc

mikeecho · 26-01-2020 2:11am

kevinc565 wrote: »

Clearly that's not the case as if someone stole your car you would be in breach of the law.

What the law says is that you can only give permission for someone to use the car if you believe they can lawfully do so.

Please take the time to read my subsequent post

kevinc565 · 26-01-2020 2:53am

mikeecho wrote: »

Please take the time to read my subsequent post

I’ve already read it. I read the posts in chronological order.

Insured driver getting stopped no tax

Comments