Should we re-introduce wolves to Ireland?

begsbyOnaTrain · 01-10-2019 4:18pm #1

The Greens want to reintroduce wolves but the current government aren't having any of it.

Other countries have in tandem with re-widling areas. Should we?

The Minister for Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht has poured cold water on calls to reintroduce wolves to Ireland.

The leader of the Green Party, Eamon Ryan, had called for the reintroduction of the predator to help rewild parts of the countryside.

The last wolf in Ireland was killed near Mount Leinster in 1786.

Mr Ryan said their reintroduction would create a real sense of wilderness and help develop more resilient woodlands.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/1001/1079433-wolves/

ted1 · 01-10-2019 4:22pm

begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »

The Greens want to reintroduce wolves but the current government aren't having any of it.

Other countries have in tandem with re-widling areas. Should we?

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/1001/1079433-wolves/

Our country is fairly small , with the lowest density of forests in Europe. We have one off housing everywhere. I can’t see how they could live their life without interacting with humans or farm animals on a daily basis

Ubbquittious · 01-10-2019 4:23pm

We can't look after what we have. Every square inch is exploited for farming or commercial sitka spruce growing. That will have to be changed first.

Be a bit of a nuisance if a wolf comes into my tent at night. Will have to drag the shotgun along with me on every hill walk.

cruizer101 · 01-10-2019 4:25pm

Nope, in theory I would like to see them and they would control deer numbers to a certain extent but we just don't have the proper wilderness for it, Ireland really is a small place.

01-10-2019 4:26pm

Imagine the sh1tstorm when one of them kills someone

Birdnuts · 01-10-2019 4:27pm

No - the reasons for their extinction have not been addressed and are unlikely to be in our lifetimes. Basically our current style of livestock husbandry does not lend itself to their return. In other countries which have a large wolf population like Turkey,Romania, Spain etc. they have professionsal shepards and large breed herd guarding dogs which make co-existinence possible.

HorrorScope · 01-10-2019 4:27pm

Absolutely not, what kind of short sighted dickhead would even suggest this? There is nowhere suitable for them and they’d be less than a month before livestock, a pet or even a human would end up being mauled by them.

Edit: Just noticed the dickhead is none other than Eamon Ryan, should have guessed.

NaFirinne · 01-10-2019 4:27pm

Surely this is a joke?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 01-10-2019 4:29pm

Besides not having sufficient space for them, unlike smaller European counties being an island limits their range, we don't have enough prey for them. Any reasonable, or viable pack, would have the deer culled below sustainable levels in just a few years. This has been studied and modelled for years: it is just not feasible.

is_that_so · 01-10-2019 4:30pm

Here's a piece on the Yellowstone reintroduction but they have an enormous ecosystem.

https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wolf-reintroduction-changes-ecosystem

The Nal · 01-10-2019 4:40pm

The Greens are really bored aren't they?

Should we introduce large bears and Siberian Tigers to Ireland?

HorrorScope · 01-10-2019 4:53pm

The Nal wrote: »

The Greens are really bored aren't they?

Should we introduce large bears and Siberian Tigers to Ireland?

Of course they are bored, there hasn’t been a single Green Party idea that isn’t so stupidly thought out and absolutely ****brained that it doesn’t deserve a facepalm with a handful of ****.

Gunmonkey · 01-10-2019 4:53pm

No need, if you need to control deer numbers just go into one of the scummier areas of the country and tell them the deer are "startin on ya"....will have dozens of deer with their heads kicked in outside chippers up and down the country in minutes.

Deleted User wrote: »

Imagine the sh1tstorm when one of them kills someone

But wont they count as an immigrant as not native to the country, so the Gov/Media will just sweep it under the rug and tell us of all the great doctor and engineer wolves that have come to Ireland.

Beechwoodspark · 01-10-2019 4:54pm

Yes we should reintroduce them.

There should be a wild corridor stretching from Wicklow to cork and another one in donegal and the north west. Think of the tourism opportunities as well as the environmental and ecological bonus.

gifted · 01-10-2019 4:55pm

The dope who suggested this is really living in a different world.....was he drunk?......honest to God...

HorrorScope · 01-10-2019 5:06pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Yes we should reintroduce them.

There should be a wild corridor stretching from Wicklow to cork and another one in donegal and the north west. Think of the tourism opportunities as well as the environmental and ecological bonus.

What benefits or bonuses are there to introducing a wild murderous animal to this country? I’m genuinely interested in what you see as plus points to this.

_Brian · 01-10-2019 5:07pm

Is this a move to reduce the homeless issue??, pretty bad form of it is.

Leg End Reject · 01-10-2019 5:13pm

Large birds of prey are killed here, the reintroduction of wolves would just bring out all the Yosemite Sam yokels.

The Tetrarch · 01-10-2019 5:16pm

Only if we put out Green Party members as prey.

Birdnuts · 01-10-2019 5:16pm

HorrorScope wrote: »

What benefits or bonuses are there to introducing a wild murderous animal to this country? I’m genuinely interested in what you see as plus points to this.

Murderous?? - lets not turn this into a silly Disney view of nature debate. Yes tourists pay to see bears and wolves in places like Spain and Romania and they do naturally cull the likes of deer,foxes etc.;. But as i stated earlier in the thread our farming, planning etc. system is not set-up for such large predators and therefore the proposal is nonsensical and silly. Basically standard Green Party empty virtue signalling to their smug D4 base

corner of hells · 01-10-2019 5:17pm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Only if we put out Green Party members as prey.

The wolves probably wouldn't be bothered eating them.

Wibbs · 01-10-2019 5:35pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Yes we should reintroduce them.

There should be a wild corridor stretching from Wicklow to cork and another one in donegal and the north west.

This is mindnumbingly daft an idea and shows a complete lack of even basic knowledge of how wolves operate. Take the reintroduction to Yellowstone in the US. Went great. Massive wild area surrounded by mostly wild areas. Yet soon enough the Yellowstone wolves were on the move beyond the park ranges. That's what wolves do, they travel. Introduce a few animals, they'll get busy with each other, raise their kids and when the kids reach maturity they leave home and go a wandering to set up their own families. Unless you propose to erect a 14 foot high fence(that also goes 6 foot underground) around your wild corridor they won't stay in that corridor for long. By the by wolves can cover 50 miles per day.

We simply don't have the wild spaces. Go to Spain in the areas where wolves are. They're in tiny numbers and rare in the landscape, but unlike Ireland Spain is far more urban centralised with way larger wild or very close to wild areas. We have absolutely tiny areas of native and natural forest by comparison. Sterile pine tree plantations in the Wicklow mountains don't cover it.

Would they attack humans? Highly unlikely. Attacks on humans are incredibly rare throughout history. In a few cases it was down to dog/wolf hybrids, or rabid animals(except funny enough for the Irish version who were larger and attacked people on the regular, though they were also sometimes kept as pets so...). Their usual MO is to run away. Goes double for the European subspecies which would be the ones introduced here, who have adapted to human proximity and hunting for thousands of years. If an attack were to happen it would be more likely in the modern Irish landscape where cover would be low and the chances of being cornered by people more likely.

jmayo · 01-10-2019 5:36pm

begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »

The Greens want to reintroduce wolves but the current government aren't having any of it.

Other countries have in tandem with re-widling areas. Should we?

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/1001/1079433-wolves/

Ah FFS...
Look at the issues where wolves have been reintroduced into say Yellowstone.
Yeah that would be Yellowstone National Park that is a protected area that has a size bigger than (Mayo + Sligo + Leitrim) or (Wicklow + Wexford + Kilkenny + Carlow + Laois).

Do you have to seriously ask this question ?

HorrorScope wrote: »

Absolutely not, what kind of short sighted dickhead would even suggest this? There is nowhere suitable for them and they’d be less than a month before livestock, a pet or even a human would end up being mauled by them.

Edit: Just noticed the dickhead is none other than Eamon Ryan, should have guessed.

What a Grade A plonker.

How the fook is anyone supposed to take anything he says seriously when he dreams up bat sh*t ideas like this. :rolleyes:

Supercell · 01-10-2019 5:39pm

Lets reintroduce bears while we are at it, sure what could go wrong?

Wibbs · 01-10-2019 5:42pm

Ireland would be better served if those dribbling fcuknuggets in the Greens suggested a concerted effort at rewilding larger areas back to native forest. That would be a good idea on so many levels. As it stands the suggestion of introducing wolves to Ireland is akin to suggesting introducing goldfish to a dry aquarium. Same goes for any large animal species.

HorrorScope · 01-10-2019 5:42pm

jmayo wrote: »

What a Grade A plonker.

How the fook is anyone supposed to take anything he says seriously when he dreams up bat sh*t ideas like this. :rolleyes:

Shouldn’t need to be said but he’s a Dublin centric, cyclist eco warrior. Why wouldn’t he want to introduce wolves to Ireland when he won’t have to encounter them in his leafy D4 neighborhood? Like every single GP thought or policy, it isn’t worth even wasting brain energy on because it’s ****ing idiotic in the extreme.

aerburdz · 01-10-2019 5:44pm

Yes we should reintroduce the grey wolf to Ireland.

Preferably the Killarney National Park or the Wicklow Mountains National Park, as they would be adequate and suitable locations for them, especially in packs. Wide open space etc.

Birdnuts · 01-10-2019 5:46pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Ireland would be better served if those dribbling fcuknuggets in the Greens suggested a concerted effort at rewilding larger areas back to native forest. That would be a good idea on so many levels. As it stands the suggestion of introducing wolves to Ireland is akin to suggesting introducing goldfish to a dry aquarium. Same goes for any large animal species.

That nails it

Wibbs · 01-10-2019 5:49pm

HorrorScope wrote: »

Shouldn’t need to be said but he’s a Dublin centric, cyclist eco warrior. Why wouldn’t he want to introduce wolves to Ireland when he won’t have to encounter them in his leafy D4 neighborhood?

Though... Hmmmm.... Hang on HS, that's the beauty of wolves, if leafy D4 had enough fancy leftovers in bins the oul wolves wouldn't be long in making their way there. Eat his cat and labradoodle while they were at it. Think urban foxes only much bigger.

Wolf in Blackrock. Earlier, Checking out the bins at the "authentic Organic free range chipper".

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 01-10-2019 5:49pm

aerburdz wrote: »

Yes we should reintroduce the grey wolf to Ireland.

Preferably the Killarney National Park or the Wicklow Mountains National Park, as they would be adequate and suitable locations for them, especially in packs. Wide open space etc.

Those locations are neither adequate nor suitable and not nearly wide open enough.

Do you really know those parks? And, do you understand the life style or requirements of the Wolf?

Birdnuts · 01-10-2019 5:51pm

aerburdz wrote: »

Yes we should reintroduce the grey wolf to Ireland.

Preferably the Killarney National Park or the Wicklow Mountains National Park, as they would be adequate and suitable locations for them, especially in packs. Wide open space etc.

The former is being steadily destroyed by Rhodendron invasion which state agencies concerned have done FA about.

dirtyden · 01-10-2019 5:52pm

I want to like the Greens, I want to vote green. But, they have a tendency to come up with utterly daft proposals too often. This is so far from the reality of what is feasible in Ireland that one would have to question Ryan’s eco credentials. Wolves tend to range up to 30 miles a day, and can range over vast areas in just a number of weeks. We don’t have the wild areas to support this.

jmayo · 01-10-2019 5:55pm

aerburdz wrote: »

Yes we should reintroduce the grey wolf to Ireland.

Preferably the Killarney National Park or the Wicklow Mountains National Park, as they would be adequate and suitable locations for them, especially in packs. Wide open space etc.

Are you fooking kidding.
Fook me pink you must in the green party with your head so far ensconced ...

well need I finish that sentence.

Do you have any fooking idea how far wolves roam.

As Wibbs pointed out they have wandered out of Yellowstone which is 9000 sq km.
Just to give you scale that is half the fooking size of Connacht (17,500 sq km).

Wicklow Mountains National Park is around 220 sq km.

Do you have a concept of big or are you akin to Fr Dougal.

You can walk across the Wicklow national park in a few hours.

Then again it might be a good idea as the wolves would eventually move into likes of South County Dublin and before you know it they would be eating up all those green party voters and members.

Might not be bad idea at all at all.

aerburdz · 01-10-2019 5:55pm

Weston Witty Volcano wrote: »

Those locations are neither adequate nor suitable and not nearly wide open enough.

Do you really know those parks? And, do you understand the life style or requirements of the Wolf?

Exactly how is Killarney National Park and the Wicklow Mountains National Park inadequate and unsuitable? They are vast spaces.

Wolves won't attack humans unless they are provoked, they could go towards the deer cull and OPW Rangers would surely supervise them.

cj maxx · 01-10-2019 5:57pm

Why ? What ? Why again ?
That's all you'd want on a cold dark winter's night is to go out a meet a wolf ??
Wtf ????

Birdnuts · 01-10-2019 6:00pm

aerburdz wrote: »

Exactly how is Killarney National Park and the Wicklow Mountains National Park inadequate and unsuitable? They are vast spaces.

Wolves won't attack humans unless they are provoked, they could go towards the deer cull and OPW Rangers would surely supervise them.

The combined area of those 2 parks would barely support a pack - inbreeding would be an issue too as they could not expand. Given that the NPWS can't get a hand on issues like overgrazing, invasive Rhodendrons etc due to underfunding etc, I doubt they have the resources to manage a wolf pack!!

jmayo · 01-10-2019 6:01pm

aerburdz wrote: »

Yes we should reintroduce the grey wolf to Ireland.

Preferably the Killarney National Park or the Wicklow Mountains National Park, as they would be adequate and suitable locations for them, especially in packs. Wide open space etc.

aerburdz wrote: »

Exactly how is Killarney National Park and the Wicklow Mountains National Park inadequate and unsuitable? They are vast spaces.

Wolves won't attack humans unless they are provoked, they could go towards the deer cull and OPW Rangers would surely supervise them.

Jaysus fooking Nora.
Seriously are some people this thick.

And at this stage I don't care if sanctioned, but the level of stupidity on display not alone by the clown of a politician but people on here is mind boggling.

Wicklow National Park is not some remote wilderness like you find in other countries.

It winds it's way close to villages, is bordered by farmland and really is not that big.
Within half and hour you are in the outskirts of Dublin.

They can't keep the deer in there never mind a wild predator like a wolf.

And how can a couple of park rangers keep an eye on them.

Beechwoodspark · 01-10-2019 6:02pm

Dunno what has set some ppl off but yeah, my solution is

Properly maintained and designated national park network stretching from Wicklow all the way to west cork in a vague semi circle type of shape. Corridors allowing the animals traverse the length of the network.

Another network in the north west. Again properly designated. Rewilding is where ireland should go over the next 50 years. The tourism potential is huge. Also the ecological and environmental bonus.

Beechwoodspark · 01-10-2019 6:04pm

HorrorScope wrote: »

What benefits or bonuses are there to introducing a wild murderous animal to this country? I’m genuinely interested in what you see as plus points to this.

They are not “murderous”. Stop with the anthropomorphism and get real

Speaking myself I’d happily live in the middle of such a national park wilderness once there’s WiFi haha

Wibbs · 01-10-2019 6:14pm

aerburdz wrote: »

Exactly how is Killarney National Park and the Wicklow Mountains National Park inadequate and unsuitable? They are vast spaces.

Wolves won't attack humans unless they are provoked, they could go towards the deer cull and OPW Rangers would surely supervise them.

laugh-or-cry-meme-edited-696x696.jpg?x91596

Jesus christ... They are not "vast" spaces. They're tiny as far as a wolf pack is concerned. Did you not read earlier, these animals can cover tens of miles per day FFS. I love the Rangers supervising them.

I know a ranger in northern Spain, where the Iberian wolf lives naturally. He's been in the field nearly 20 years and the number of times he has seen one in the wild? Once. Once.

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Dunno what has set some ppl off but yeah, my solution is

Properly maintained and designated national park network stretching from Wicklow all the way to west cork in a vague semi circle type of shape. Corridors allowing the animals traverse the length of the network.

Another network in the north west. Again properly designated. The tourism potential is huge. Also the ecological and environmental bonus.

Wolves can't read maps. They can clear a 3 metre fence with ease, they can dig down a metre under one. They can cover 70 k's per day. There's a reason why we humans and them got together tens of thousands of years ago to take over this planet. These are not some bloody cockapoo FFS. They are an apex predator that works in teams and is a very bright animal.

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

They are not “murderous”. Stop with the anthropomorphism and get real

Speaking myself I’d happily live in the middle of such a national park wilderness once there’s WiFi haha

Get real he says? Haha indeed. Maybe use the Wifi to read up on subjects you clearly know sweet fcuk all about.

jmayo · 01-10-2019 6:16pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Dunno what has set some ppl off but yeah, my solution is

Properly maintained and designated national park network stretching from Wicklow all the way to west cork in a vague semi circle type of shape. Corridors allowing the animals traverse the length of the network.

Another network in the north west. Again properly designated. Rewilding is where ireland should go over the next 50 years. The tourism potential is huge. Also the ecological and environmental bonus.

Can I get the 100 plus million euro contract for the fencing and you are on.

I don't know what it is, but it is like batsh** crazy central in here this afternoon. :rolleyes:

I always wondered where the greens get votes.

Beechwoodspark · 01-10-2019 6:17pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Jesus christ... They are not "vast" spaces. They're tiny as far as a wolf pack is concerned. Did you not read earlier, these animals can cover tens of miles per day FFS. I love the Rangers supervising them. I know a ranger in northern Spain, where the Iberian wolf lives naturally. He's been in the field nearly 20 years and the number of times he has seen one in the wild? Once. Once.

Wolves can't read maps. They can clear a 3 metre fence with ease, they can dig down a metre under one. They can cover 70 k's per day. There's a reason why we humans and them got together tens of thousands of years ago to take over this planet. These are not some bloody cockapoo FFS. They are an apex predator that works in teams and is a very bright animal.

Get real he says? Haha indeed. Maybe use the Wifi to read up on subjects you clearly know sweet fcuk all about.

Sorry now

Have a read where I say properly maintained

I mean 10-12 foot high fencing surrounding the national wilderness zone.

And I actually know heaps about wolves and other wildlife as it happens. I’m an ardent environmentalist/ecologist.

Leg End Reject · 01-10-2019 6:20pm

Look, I'm sure if the wolves were given a tour, and the rangers reprimanded them when they stepped outside these corridors, they would ignore their instincts and obediently stay put.

jmayo · 01-10-2019 6:22pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Sorry now

Have a read where I say properly maintained

I mean 8 foot high fencing surrounding the national wilderness zone.

And I actually know heaps about wolves and other wildlife as it happens. I’m an ardent environmentalist/ecologist.

Well you know fook all about Ireland and I would say economics.

How the feck are you going to create this wildlife/wilderness corridor.

We don't have a communist party and a communist big brother state that will put up a Iron Curtain style corridor that will be left go wild for the wildlife to traverse through.
Yes look that up as example of how wildlife moved through parts of Eastern Europe.

I have to say the more the ardent environmentalists talk the more the rest of us scratch our heads in disbelief.

jimmycrackcorm · 01-10-2019 6:25pm

With the demise of dancing at the crossroads, we should replace it with wolves.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 01-10-2019 6:25pm

aerburdz wrote: »

Exactly how is Killarney National Park and the Wicklow Mountains National Park inadequate and unsuitable? They are vast spaces.

Wolves won't attack humans unless they are provoked, they could go towards the deer cull and OPW Rangers would surely supervise them.

They are not in the least bit 'vast areas'. Wolves will cover 50 miles in a day. The terrain is not suited to wolves, there is far too much human settlement and farming in the immediate vicinity. The parks are islands surrounded by settlement with insufficient space for packs to function. I never mentioned attacks on humans but there is too much livestock in those areas. The deer would be reduced to unsustainable numbers in a few years with even a moderate pack of wolves. NPWS (not OPW) rangers could not 'supervise' a pack of wolves in a small area with human settlement, livestock, and insufficient prey.

pgj2015 · 01-10-2019 6:26pm

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Large birds of prey are killed here, the reintroduction of wolves would just bring out all the Yosemite Sam yokels.

exactly, i know of a guy who kills pine martens for some reason and all the locals think hes a hero as they think the pine marten would attack humans if it got the chance. :mad:

Beechwoodspark · 01-10-2019 6:27pm

jmayo wrote: »

Well you know fook all about Ireland and I would say economics.

How the feck are you going to create this wildlife/wilderness corridor.

We don't have a communist party and a communist big brother state that will put up a Iron Curtain style corridor that will be left go wild for the wildlife to traverse through.
Yes look that up as example of how wildlife moved through parts of Eastern Europe.

I have to say the more the ardent environmentalists talk the more the rest of us scratch our heads in disbelief.

It would be a huge tourism attraction. Eco tourism is growing exponentially.

Also it would allow us to meet our climate emergency commitments along with rewilding Ireland in a controlled manner.

Also some other spin offs would be to use the national wilderness for major film locations thus a feedback loop created for future visitors and of course ppl will want to live in such fantastic surroundings and not in built up cities. Comms tech is progressing so much remember

jmayo · 01-10-2019 6:28pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Wibbs wrote: »

[...
Wolves can't read maps. They can clear a 3 metre fence with ease, they can dig down a metre under one. They can cover 70 k's per day. There's a reason why we humans and them got together tens of thousands of years ago to take over this planet. These are not some bloody cockapoo FFS. They are an apex predator that works in teams and is a very bright animal...

Sorry now

Have a read where I say properly maintained

I mean 8 foot high fencing surrounding the national wilderness zone.

And I actually know heaps about wolves and other wildlife as it happens. I’m an ardent environmentalist/ecologist.

Ehh you do know that 3 metres is greater than 8 foot ?

I think 3 metres is about 9.4 feet.

Ah but shure it will be grand.

Anyway carry on enlightening us.

Birdnuts · 01-10-2019 6:28pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

exactly, i know of a guy who kills pine martens for some reason and all the locals think hes a hero as they think the pine marten would attack humans if it got the chance. :mad:

Highly illegal - report him to the NPWS or Gardai

Beechwoodspark · 01-10-2019 6:29pm

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh you do know that 3 metres is greater than 8 foot ?

I think 3 metres is about 9.4 feet.

Ah but shure it will be grand.

Anyway carry on enlightening us.

They can’t clear 3 meters.

But if somehow some freak mutant wolf can, then just make the fencing higher. No biggie. Look at the bigger picture in this.

Should we re-introduce wolves to Ireland?

Should wolves be re-introduced to Ireland? 227 votes

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