Outer City Bypass

beardybrewer · 07-11-2012 5:35pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The 'reasoned opinion' will be issued later this month. This is given by an Advocate General ( a lawyer in the middle not for or against) and the Judges normally follow the reasoned opinion.

The long nightmare may soon be over.

Sorry, I might have missed a step. Do we have an idea what way the Advocate General will say?

Or are you saying, for better or worse, at least we'll have an answer?

Sponge Bob · 07-11-2012 7:10pm

No. But unless they torpedo the entire EIS process it should mean a favourable judgement is perhaps 3 months away at most.

galwayrush · 08-11-2012 9:54am

What a terrible waste of time and money this serial objector caused.

nuac · 08-11-2012 12:08pm

galwayrush wrote: »

What a terrible waste of time and money this serial objector caused.

Indeed, and not for the first time.

afaik in this case the issue was the integrity of the limestone structure. There is lots of limestone in that area, stretching up into South Mayo.

N ot much consideration to risk to human life on inferior roads

antoobrien · 08-11-2012 12:17pm

nuac wrote: »

Indeed, and not for the first time.

afaik in this case the issue was the integrity of the limestone structure. There is lots of limestone in that area, stretching up into South Mayo.

Which makes the suggestions of tunnels (made earlier) even more laughable. Besides, the initial work on the design ruled it out of hand on both the environmental impact and cost basis.

It should be pointed out that the section through the bogs was rejected by ABP and is part of the court case.

Sponge Bob · 08-11-2012 12:18pm

If anyone wants to personally meet the great man he will be objecting to the new road west of Oughterard in a fortnight or so.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/28690-oral-hearing-connemara-greenway-project-month

An Bord Pleanala has organised the oral hearing on the proposed route to take place at the Clifden station house from the 27th to 29th of this month

Private Joker · 08-11-2012 12:28pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

If anyone wants to personally meet the great man he will be objecting to the new road west of Oughterard in a fortnight or so.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/28690-oral-hearing-connemara-greenway-project-month

Its actually the greenway project( cycle track/walkway) and not a road. but yeah, all the serial objectors should be there. On a side note some of the connemara Councillors are in brussels this week having talks about the R336 .

buzz11 · 08-11-2012 12:41pm

galwayrush wrote: »

What a terrible waste of time and money this serial objector caused.

I'm not familiar with who or what group was objecting...have you a link that would give more info?

Sponge Bob · 08-11-2012 12:54pm

Private Joker wrote: »

Its actually the greenway project( cycle track/walkway) and not a road. but yeah, all the serial objectors should be there.

Sorry you are right, the N59 Road ( Maam Cross to Oughterard) will be the subject of a SEPARATE Oral Hearing some time next year. He was also whining about the Moycullen Bypass 6 months back. > submissions section P38 of 74.

antoobrien · 08-11-2012 1:25pm

buzz11 wrote: »

I'm not familiar with who or what group was objecting...have you a link that would give more info?

Go to the courts service webpage and search for Peter Sweetman.

Hands across the Corrib are supposedly a local action group, last I heard of them they had a registered a Ltd company based out of Kildare. Their website is not currently reachable.

There were three cases brought to the high court, all of which were rejected, one of which was appealed to the supreme court.

This one -
http://www.courts.ie/judgments.nsf/6681dee4565ecf2c80256e7e0052005b/18cdda1ceeb7a247802577490032adce?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,Sweetman - was appealed to the supreme court on grounds that I have been unable to find.

The hands across the corrib appear was rejected beucase it was the same case as the one listed above: http://www.courts.ie/judgments.nsf/6681dee4565ecf2c80256e7e0052005b/9a81d3f34c4138d180257735004b5053?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,Sweetman

and sweetmans earlier case was also dismissed:
http://www.courts.ie/judgments.nsf/6681dee4565ecf2c80256e7e0052005b/8c6cad3040236e72802575b3003e7692?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,Sweetman

The serial objector has also brought court cases regarding the development of the N18 the planning of the New Ross Bypass and numerous other projects.

Altreab · 08-11-2012 3:28pm

buzz11 wrote: »

I'm not familiar with who or what group was objecting...have you a link that would give more info?

the guy in question is
PETER SWEETMAN & ASSOCIATES
14 POSTNET
184 LOWER RATHMINES ROAD
DUBLIN 6

Source Here

As can be seen he does a lot of objecting on behalf of Friends of the Irish Environment another group of serial objectors based in cork.
According to his facebook page he now lives in Rossport, and is orginally from Kill, Kildare.

Robbo · 08-11-2012 3:53pm

antoobrien wrote: »

Go to the courts service webpage and search for Peter Sweetman.

Currently listed as the plaintiff in 9 seperate sets of Judicial Review proceedings.

antoobrien wrote: »

Hands across the Corrib are supposedly a local action group, last I heard of them they had a registered a Ltd company based out of Kildare. Their website is not currently reachable.

Nah, their registered office is in Ballinfoyle.

He stands as testament to the low bars to starting JR proceedings in this country and that you have nothing to fear in terms of costs due to the Aarhus Convention being ratified.

antoobrien · 08-11-2012 4:12pm

Robbo wrote: »

Currently listed as the plaintiff in 9 seperate sets of Judicial Review proceedings.

Nah, their registered office is in Ballinfoyle.

Ah I see where I got that out of, they got a different solicitors practice to represent them in at least one action related to the case - Percy Podger and Associates from Kildare. In this case they tried to get the council investigated over not providing a transcript for proceedings that it did not have.

Anyhow my confusion cam from the way the text is formatted, it makes it look like HAtC Ltd are now based in Kildare.

Altreab · 08-11-2012 4:39pm

galwayrush wrote: »

He made an argument in court that if we had a lot of old stained glass in the county, does that mean that it would be ok to destroy 10% of it, saying that destroying a little of the bog cotton was like destroying something as valuable as the stained glass..:rolleyes:

I think it was his barrister Paul O'Higgins SC who actually made that comment, not actually Peter Sweetman himself. Sweetman didnt object to the comparison though.
Source

nuac · 09-11-2012 12:28pm

Private Joker wrote: »

Its actually the greenway project( cycle track/walkway) and not a road. but yeah, all the serial objectors should be there. On a side note some of the connemara Councillors are in brussels this week having talks about the R336 .

Surely PS is not objecting to the Greenway Projjorect thru Connamars. The Westport - Achill Greenway is a major success

Sponge Bob · 22-11-2012 3:42pm

Advocates opinion published in Europe, the detailed 'constituent parts' comments indicate to me that there will be no problem formulating a test in our Supreme Court and that it will finish with the courts by March/April and with a go ahead.

Predalien · 22-11-2012 5:09pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Advocates opinion published in Europe, the detailed 'constituent parts' comments indicate to me that there will be no problem formulating a test in our Supreme Court and that it will finish with the courts by March/April and with a go ahead.

Do you think? Looks to me like the test to be applied means the permanent loss of habitat is an adverse effect on the integrity of the site so the authorities will have to go the other route and look for a derogation from the Commission.

what_traffic · 22-11-2012 5:11pm

Any links to the Advocates opinion?

Predalien · 22-11-2012 5:11pm

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:62011CC0258:EN:HTML

yer man! · 23-11-2012 5:27pm

I hear Mr Sweetman (aka, the bollocks) on Galway Bay FM wants flyovers over the recently converted roundabouts as an alternative to the galway bypass. He sees no need for a bypass in Galway at all.... this man knows nothing...

Conmaicne Mara · 23-11-2012 5:48pm

yer man! wrote: »

I hear Mr Sweetman (aka, the bollocks) on Galway Bay FM wants flyovers over the recently converted roundabouts as an alternative to the galway bypass. He sees no need for a bypass in Galway at all.... this man knows nothing...

Where is Mr Sweetman from? I ask wondering if it affects him or not. I live in Connemara. To get a lot of places in the country I have to travel through Galway. If I hit Galway the wrong time in the morning or evening :rolleyes: There I am, stuck wedged in traffic when there's no need to be.

yer man! · 23-11-2012 5:55pm

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Where is Mr Sweetman from? I ask wondering if it affects him or not. I live in Connemara. To get a lot of places in the country I have to travel through Galway. If I hit Galway the wrong time in the morning or evening :rolleyes: There I am, stuck wedged in traffic when there's no need to be.

I believe he is from Galway but lives and works in Dublin. He has objected to so many projects which have eventually gone ahead but he has cost a lot of people a lot of money.

His case doesn't really make any sense, he's saying that it shouldn't be built because it would destroy an area of limestone, ah lad, there's two quarries there for years that you never had any objection too.... would love to talk to him and actually see what is his problem.

biko · 23-11-2012 5:57pm

yer man! wrote: »

I hear Mr Sweetman (aka, the bollocks) on Galway Bay FM wants flyovers over the recently converted roundabouts as an alternative to the galway bypass. He sees no need for a bypass in Galway at all.... this man knows nothing...

Less of this stuff please

Sponge Bob · 23-11-2012 6:08pm

The appeal is quite complex and he won a point over an application of a Regulation 30 not an Article 6(3) . Overall it makes no real difference I should think....and where can you put these flyovers anyway ....it is not like the main movement on each junction/roundabout is straight ahead at all times which is where you would use a flyover.

He used to live in Galway and now lives in Rossport in Mayo but has an address in Dublin for some reason.

yer man! · 23-11-2012 6:15pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The appeal is quite complex and he won a point over an application of a Regulation 30 not an Article 6(3) . Overall it makes no real difference I should think....and where can you put these flyovers anyway ....it is not like the main movement on each junction/roundabout is straight ahead at all times which is where you would use a flyover.

He used to live in Galway and now lives in Rossport in Mayo but has an address in Dublin for some reason.

Well he's adamant that it can be done anyway, I presume he thinks it's as easy as Cork's ring road solution or something, I don't know. I would have no problem with him objecting if he had a proposal for a viable alternative. He was on the radio with Cllr Conneely (I think that's the spelling) she put forward the case that more needs to be done for buses in the city, frequency, prices, etc. I would hazard a guess and say NIMBY.

Ya I know he had a reason to appeal over the bord pleanala thing, fair enough, but he did mention a small area of limestone pavement being destroyed, on several occasions, and how that can't be allowed happen.

Private Joker · 23-11-2012 6:22pm

Mr Sweetman is from Kill Co. Kildare, although i dont know where he is living, i dont think he lives in Galway. He is a professional objector who will take on anyones cause who is willing to pay ( he's a bit like the A-Team of road objectors) .

I have been at a couple of oral hearings where he was objecting. Most of his objections are nonsensical in my opinion. At one oral hearing , he started to read out the EIS ( a substantial document) . The APB inspector let him do it as it was the inspectors first oral hearing and he was probably afraid of a judical review. this delayed the process by 2 weeks, i kid you not.
he delayed the oral hearing of the M7/M8 by 2 months back in 04 or 05.
His father was a TD in the 60's who was knocked down and killed on the old Naas road, i always thought that this was his reason for hating all things roads and while i admire a man who has a cause , i believe his cause has been diluted somewhat over the years.

This is obviously my opinion and does not reflect the opinion of Boards.ie or any of their members.

yer man! · 23-11-2012 6:24pm

Private Joker wrote: »

Mr Sweetman is from Kill Co. Kildare, although i dont know where he is living, i dont think he lives in Galway. He is a professional objector who will take on anyones cause who is willing to pay ( he's a bit like the A-Team of road objectors) .

I have been at a couple of oral hearings where he was objecting. Most of his objections are nonsensical in my opinion. At one oral hearing , he started to read out the EIS ( a substantial document) . The APB inspector let him do it as it was the inspectors first oral hearing and he was probably afraid of a judical review. this delayed the process by 2 weeks, i kid you not.
he delayed the oral hearing of the M7/M8 by 2 months back in 04 or 05.
His father was a TD in the 60's who was knocked down and killed on the old Naas road, i always thought that this was his reason for hating all things roads and while i admire a man who has a cause , i believe his cause has been diluted somewhat over the years.

This is obviously my opinion and does not reflect the opinion of Boards.ie or any of their members.

I wonder if he's pro-rail......

Private Joker · 23-11-2012 6:30pm

yer man! wrote: »

I wonder if he's pro-rail......

during a rare moment on consciousnesses during his submission, i seem to remember him saying "rail good, road bad"

24-11-2012 2:31am

I think anything bar an officially recognised body should be ignored in these situations.
If an individual wants to object to a process they should need a certain amount of support(say 2000 others etc).

Private Joker · 24-11-2012 3:00am

gilberto_eire wrote: »

I think anything bar an officially recognised body should be ignored in these situations.
If an individual wants to object to a process they should need a certain amount of support(say 2000 others etc).

the thing is there are 2 types of objectors , those who object to the EIS and those who object to the CPO. If you are a landowner you can object to the cpo and you can get anyone to act on your behalf and you have to be heard, this is where you can employ a professional objector. The system isn't perfect but at least it gives everyone a chance to air their views. It's the inspectors job to root out any erroneous objections and for the most part they are quite good at their job.
Its European directives that seem to be a major stumbling block in getting anything passed in this country.
the point was made that all other more developed countries in europe had most of their infastructre in place before any of the habitats directives were put in place in the EU.

Outer City Bypass

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