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US Presidential Election 2020

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 136 ✭✭DreamsBurnDown


    The problem is that you are using national polling and attempting to assume that that is how swing state voters think. It doesn’t matter what the twenty million people in LA and San Francisco areas think of semi-auto rifles or border crossings, when the 300,000 voters in Swing-state Pittsburgh are actually voting for Democrats who advertise that they own and shoot them, and who are a little less tolerant of illegal immigration than Californians are.

    Except I'm not suggesting anything more in terms of Immigration and gun control policy than Obama ran on in 2008 and 2012, and he won most of the swing states comfortably. In terms of how swing state voters think, I think they (like the whole country) continue to move more liberal in general, obviously slower. Obama was quite aggressive on illegal immigration, something a lot of Democrats have forgotten, and his gun control efforts were blocked by congress. Obviously Republican politicians are afraid of the NRA, but the same NRA may be self destructing as we speak.

    In all of the recent polling I have seen, there is continued move towards support for gun control, including swing states. There is also more support for an increase in legal immigration, including legalizing people who have been in the US illegally for many years. These are sensible policies that Democrats and Independents who lean Democrats support. If they voted for a candidate supporting them in 2008 and 2012, they are hardly going to be the reason they vote against one in 2020.

    It's not as if you can avoid those issues, as two of Trump's rallying cries will be that Democrats are for "open borders" and "taking away your guns", so you need some coherent response. A response of we are going to continue with Obama's policies seems reasonable to me, especially as there are plenty Democrats calling for much more progressive policies.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,198 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    The democrats need to pick the best candidate to beat trump. If they start trying to find one in the field that’s the political equivalent to fresh snow and ticks every box that the many parts of the Democratic Party want then they will fail.

    There seems a proud determination to do that and damn the consequences for their party.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran




    Except I'm not suggesting anything more in terms of Immigration and gun control policy than Obama ran on in 2008 and 2012, and he won most of the swing states comfortably. In terms of how swing state voters think, I think they (like the whole country) continue to move more liberal in general, obviously slower. Obama was quite aggressive on illegal immigration, something a lot of Democrats have forgotten, and his gun control efforts were blocked by congress. Obviously Republican politicians are afraid of the NRA, but the same NRA may be self destructing as we speak.

    In all of the recent polling I have seen, there is continued move towards support for gun control, including swing states. There is also more support for an increase in legal immigration, including legalizing people who have been in the US illegally for many years. These are sensible policies that Democrats and Independents who lean Democrats support. If they voted for a candidate supporting them in 2008 and 2012, they are hardly going to be the reason they vote against one in 2020.

    It's not as if you can avoid those issues, as two of Trump's rallying cries will be that Democrats are for "open borders" and "taking away your guns", so you need some coherent response. A response of we are going to continue with Obama's policies seems reasonable to me, especially as there are plenty Democrats calling for much more progressive policies.

    I agree with much of this, but there are two problems. First, I'm not sure any of the current candidates are actually calling for a continuation of Obamas's policies, given that, secondly, I do think you are conflating 'a move towards' with 'positions held by the candidates'.

    For example, which candidates on the Democratic side are for the concept of sanctuary cities or states? Warren launches her campaign in one, while Harris is from the most associated city of the lot. Sure, Obama was for the Dreamers, but he was not in favour of the sanctuary policies such as San Francisco holds. What was the Democrat response to the Kate Steinle shooting, which provided ample fodder for the Trump campaign in 2016? Which of the current crop of candidates have announced they would do what Obama did? https://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/obama-immigration-sanctuary-cities-219754 .
    The Obama administration is winning praise from conservative Republicans for initiating a change in federal policy that could encourage so-called sanctuary cities to abandon their stance against cooperating with deportation requests.

    The move could be politically awkward for Democratic presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, both of whom are aggressively courting immigrant communities while also expressing solidarity with President Barack Obama.


    And if you look at what the swing states think, https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/exclusive-77-percent-of-voters-in-key-states-demand-end-to-sanctuary-cities-for-illegal-immigrants
    Voters in 11 battleground states key to controlling the Senate in 2018 and presidency in 2020 overwhelmingly support the Trump administration's efforts to end so-called "sanctuary" policies for illegal immigrant criminals in over 300 cities, according to a new poll on the explosive issue.


    Similarly, Obama dropped his calls for an 'assault weapons ban' because he knew it was a non-starter politically. And I'm sorry, but the NRA is a great talking point, but the power of the gun lobby comes from not the 6 million NRA members (Which, granted, is hardly a small bloc), but the hundred million owners. This is the advert which launched the campaign for Lamb, who flipped the first Red district to Blue after the 2016 election. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BnOHydNcrM That doesn't look like sort of campaign targetted at people who want to renew an AWB, and indeed his official position is he opposes it. Yet is is in favour of increased gun control. Who is the Democratic candidate on the poll list in the OP who actually matches this position?

    And it worked. He's in Congress, in a swing district, the Republican isn't. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/03/14/pennsylvania-election-results-2018-analysis-217360


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,365 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Danzy wrote: »
    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    The democrats need to pick the best candidate to beat trump. If they start trying to find one in the field that’s the political equivalent to fresh snow and ticks every box that the many parts of the Democratic Party want then they will fail.

    There seems a proud determination to do that and damn the consequences for their party.
    Well then trump as bad as he is will win again and there will be loads of crying and all the rest, but the democrats will have no one to blame this time. The USA will have had four years of this mess by then and if the democratic voters and independents don’t got off their holes on the Election Day and actually vote instead of just assume it will happen then they are in for a land again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,310 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    Interesting articles appearing from reputable sources about Biden influencing the Ukraine government and legal system who were investigating his son, who just happens to have been appointed to the board of Ukraine's biggest gas company.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,569 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Biden brings a lot of baggage, between the above links to Ukraine, to the current issues pertaining to accusations of impropriety.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I suppose an interesting pondering would be: will the other Democrats attack Biden's baggage? Ignoring the campaigns, that will undoubtedly take swipes at the Anita Hill controversy et al, I'm wondering if the actual candidates will criticise Biden's less-than-stellar history. I can't see Sanders getting that personal, I don't get the impression that's his preferred style, leaving the rest. And if they do, you'd imagine that could plummet the support for Biden quite sharply...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Yurt! wrote: »
    Emerson Polling has Beto on 22%? Can't understand his appeal. Mayor Pete (my pick) gaining ground on Bernie "millionaires and billionaires" Sanders.

    http://emersonpolling.com/

    Health warning: margin of error of +-5.2%

    Edit: Curiously, Beto is more popular in the 30-49 cohort than the 18-29 (where Sanders comes out on top). To be cynical, I guess Gen-Xers appreciate his skateboard/ Dead Kennedys / standing on tables and waving his arms shtick.

    This is as useful as the never-ending conveyor of political polls in these parts. Nobody has any support until someone votes for them. This is the phoney war phase. Once the primaries start they will all be properly tested.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,365 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Biden is leading Trump in Texas by 1 in latest Emerson poll. Saunders is losing by 2 while Warren and Harris are losing by 6 and 8 respectively.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,569 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    pixelburp wrote: »
    I suppose an interesting pondering would be: will the other Democrats attack Biden's baggage? Ignoring the campaigns, that will undoubtedly take swipes at the Anita Hill controversy et al, I'm wondering if the actual candidates will criticise Biden's less-than-stellar history. I can't see Sanders getting that personal, I don't get the impression that's his preferred style, leaving the rest. And if they do, you'd imagine that could plummet the support for Biden quite sharply...

    I think they will, and ought to do so. While I don't want to see the Democrats tear themselves apart in the primaries, they have to face the reality of what the candidate will face in the general election. Let them work out how to address those issues and go forth with a solid plan to face off against Trump.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,164 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Biden is still the strongest candidate, and his base which is relatively older are not going to follow every scandal in great detail. Biden is formidable because while the right and even the hard left may scream "Obama" at him, their is many who look back at the days of Obama with great fondness.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,365 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Obviously getting a bump from his announcement, Biden leads by an incredible 24 points in latest CNN poll

    x0aNJJE.jpg

    Latest MC poll, seems like Harris' campaign has completely stalled at this point

    wefjG3i.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭Jamiekelly


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Yang this and Yang that; I've seen one interview with him and he seems well meaning ... but first, is be actually running, and second, as an independent, right? Just seems like a total pipe dream candidate

    Yes he's officially running and has already qualified for the debates. He's a registered democrat so he'll be running as one. I think he's going to do it to be honest. Once he actually makes his pitch on the debate stage then there won't be any turning back. Once he makes the pitch for $1,000 a month for every citizen and he says the likes of facebook and amazon are going to be the ones paying for it then the conservative rust best and blue collar working democrats are going to take notice. Biden and Bernie can talk all they want about Trump and building a better nation but money speaks loudest in the US. He's already peeled off some Bernie voters in Iowa. The likes of Beto and Warren won't make it. Beto got crucified at SXSW conference a while back by a very liberal crowd for being way too vague and using nothing but flowery words and Warren isn't even polling well in her home state.. Yang's policy page actually looks like something that will win over a lot of people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,198 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    One thing that will unite us all is wonderment at how Julian Castro ever got so far.

    Vacuous personality and seems to not like interacting with people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Jamiekelly wrote: »
    Yes he's officially running and has already qualified for the debates. He's a registered democrat so he'll be running as one. I think he's going to do it to be honest. Once he actually makes his pitch on the debate stage then there won't be any turning back. Once he makes the pitch for $1,000 a month for every citizen and he says the likes of facebook and amazon are going to be the ones paying for it then the conservative rust best and blue collar working democrats are going to take notice. Biden and Bernie can talk all they want about Trump and building a better nation but money speaks loudest in the US. He's already peeled off some Bernie voters in Iowa. The likes of Beto and Warren won't make it. Beto got crucified at SXSW conference a while back by a very liberal crowd for being way too vague and using nothing but flowery words and Warren isn't even polling well in her home state.. Yang's policy page actually looks like something that will win over a lot of people.

    Agree with this, it's a 'universal and attractive' offer at hand afterall.

    A bit like someone walking into a room when two lads are shouting over who been most inapporpriate to females, and simply tapping a microphone and asking over the crowd noise inferno "Hey, who here - wants $1,000?".

    It will be a slow burner, and he hasn't much of a mic/megaphone to use as yet, but once everyone becomes aware (maybe via word of mouth) of the offer at hand it's a no-brainer.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,198 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Agree with this, it's a 'universal and attractive' offer at hand afterall.

    A bit like someone walking into a room when two lads are shouting over who been most inapporpriate to females, and simply tapping a microphone and asking over the crowd noise inferno "Hey, who here - wants $1,000?".

    It will be a slow burner, and he hasn't much of a mic/megaphone to use as yet, but once everyone becomes aware (maybe via word of mouth) of the offer at hand it's a no-brainer.

    I suspect that Yang will not go above a few %.

    Like the cut of his jib though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Danzy wrote: »
    I suspect that Yang will not go above a few %.

    Like the cut of his jib though.

    He could do with a better (mass media) platform. CNN and the like, is full of Biden's re-polished looks.

    Still early days? Anybody know if there an exact date or deadline for the Dem nonmination to be finalised?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,365 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    The main policies Democratic voters have issue with are climate change, healthcare, gun control and college tuition according to CNN poll.

    Yang is a complete unknown among voters which straight away is an issue. Obama was already neck in neck with the Clinton machine in terms of campaign donations at this point in 2007 and Trump was one of the most famous people on Earth. Unless Yang has some ability to raise funds like Sanders did in 2016 or is insanely charismatic to a point he makes Dwayne Johnson seem boring his campaign will fizzle out rather quickly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,418 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    Every candidate website I've checked has some text that outlines actual policy positions. Some more than others.

    Bar one: Joe Biden, and he's leading the field?

    In an election where policies matter, this is not a good starting point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,967 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Rjd2 wrote:
    Biden is still the strongest candidate, and his base which is relatively older are not going to follow every scandal in great detail. Biden is formidable because while the right and even the hard left may scream "Obama" at him, their is many who look back at the days of Obama with great fondness.
    I'd be shocked if people look back at Obama's 8 years with fondness. It was a bad time for many monetarily.
    I'm a huge fan of Barrack Obama but I thought he was average at best as President. I wanted him to get the job and get the second term but overall I was pretty disappointed by his time in the White House.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,365 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    BluePlanet wrote: »
    Every candidate website I've checked has some text that outlines actual policy positions. Some more than others.

    Bar one: Joe Biden, and he's leading the field?

    In an election where policies matter, this is not a good starting point.
    Do policies matter ? I’d have said pre trump policies were important but since then not really.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,365 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Rjd2 wrote:
    Biden is still the strongest candidate, and his base which is relatively older are not going to follow every scandal in great detail. Biden is formidable because while the right and even the hard left may scream "Obama" at him, their is many who look back at the days of Obama with great fondness.
    I'd be shocked if people look back at Obama's 8 years with fondness. It was a bad time for many monetarily.
    I'm a huge fan of Barrack Obama but I thought he was average at best as President. I wanted him to get the job and get the second term but overall I was pretty disappointed by his time in the White House.
    Was he average at best because of the high expectations that people had for him though ? I agree his presidency while not a dumpster fire like the current one was never going to live up in hindsight to what people believed it would be. To listen to some at the time, Obama was the second coming which was never going to end well in terms of how his presidency will be remembered.

    I mean outside it being a HUGE moment for the African American population of the US after their less than wonderful history up until the 1960’s(and maybe it wasn’t great after that) in America was it that amazing ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,365 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'd be shocked if people look back at Obama's 8 years with fondness. It was a bad time for many monetarily.
    I'm a huge fan of Barrack Obama but I thought he was average at best as President. I wanted him to get the job and get the second term but overall I was pretty disappointed by his time in the White House.

    Yes they do https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/americans-rank-barack-obama-best-president-lifetimes-poll/story?id=56545031

    Re-righting an economy losing 800,000 jobs a month and Dow crashing towards 6,000 to 75 months of consecutive job growth and Dow growing by 148% will likely do that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    Yes they do https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/americans-rank-barack-obama-best-president-lifetimes-poll/story?id=56545031

    Re-righting an economy losing 800,000 jobs a month and Dow crashing towards 6,000 to 75 months of consecutive job growth and Dow growing by 148% will likely do that.

    Alote of American's hate Obama because he is black, they hated his policies and his flirtations with democratic socialism. The US House was controlled by the GOP whch contributed heavily to the recovery and the natural cycle was recovery after a crash anyway. For me Obama was terrible and he and Hillary caused more carnage in the Mid-East than Dubya did with Iraq. The Americans pushed back and got an almost diametric polar opposite of Obama in Trump.


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭sandbelter


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'd be shocked if people look back at Obama's 8 years with fondness. It was a bad time for many monetarily.
    I'm a huge fan of Barrack Obama but I thought he was average at best as President. I wanted him to get the job and get the second term but overall I was pretty disappointed by his time in the White House.


    Dems still struggling in key battleground state of Michigan


    https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2019/04/democratic-presidential-candidates-seek-to-crack-trumps-michigan-support.html


    What seems to escaped most people is that under his watch Chinese exports hollowed out the US industrial base, he played a fiddle while the US Blue collar base burned and did nothing about China. Until the Dems have cold hard look at the exchange between late Steve Jobs and Obama about "why doesn't Apple build iPhones in America" it won't grasp that it put the interests of a Dem donor first and its voters second...and in doing so left the door open for Trump to connect with the alienated rust belt voters.


    Dems still still don't get it...they have make hard choices between their donor base's interests and the voters they need to win. Social justice issues and Russian meddling narrative isn't going to cut it.



    Apple and Dems
    http://fortune.com/2016/08/24/apple-tim-cook-fundraiser-clinton/



    Trump will win, and probably take Minnesota and Maine with him this time as well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    sandbelter wrote: »
    Dems still struggling in key battleground state of Michigan


    https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2019/04/democratic-presidential-candidates-seek-to-crack-trumps-michigan-support.html


    What seems to escaped most people is that under his watch Chinese exports hollowed out the US industrial base, he played a fiddle while the US Blue collar base burned and did nothing about China. Until the Dems have cold hard look at the exchange between late Steve Jobs and Obama about "why doesn't Apple build iPhones in America" it won't grasp that it put the interests of a Dem donor first and its voters second...and in doing so left the door open for Trump to connect with the alienated rust belt voters.


    Dems still still don't get it...they have make hard choices between their donor base's interests and the voters they need to win. Social justice issues and Russian meddling narrative isn't going to cut it.



    Apple and Dems
    http://fortune.com/2016/08/24/apple-tim-cook-fundraiser-clinton/



    Trump will win, and probably take Minnesota and Maine with him this time as well.

    Attitudes are hardening even more in American and I expect Trump to flip even more states also and maybe go for a near landslide, faced with Biden or Sanders its a cakewalk anyway compared to Hillary.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,198 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    sandbelter wrote: »
    Dems still struggling in key battleground state of Michigan


    https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2019/04/democratic-presidential-candidates-seek-to-crack-trumps-michigan-support.html


    What seems to escaped most people is that under his watch Chinese exports hollowed out the US industrial base, he played a fiddle while the US Blue collar base burned and did nothing about China. Until the Dems have cold hard look at the exchange between late Steve Jobs and Obama about "why doesn't Apple build iPhones in America" it won't grasp that it put the interests of a Dem donor first and its voters second...and in doing so left the door open for Trump to connect with the alienated rust belt voters.


    Dems still still don't get it...they have make hard choices between their donor base's interests and the voters they need to win. Social justice issues and Russian meddling narrative isn't going to cut it.



    Apple and Dems
    http://fortune.com/2016/08/24/apple-tim-cook-fundraiser-clinton/



    Trump will win, and probably take Minnesota and Maine with him this time as well.

    Trump has done more for working class America than any Democrat on decades.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,854 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Do policies matter ? I’d have said pre trump policies were important but since then not really.

    Very good point. After the last presidential election, it’s clear the American ppl have little interest in traditional “boring” policies and qualifiers like experience in political candidates.

    The main thing that seems to matter is vicious insults and attacking the other side.

    And to follow trump’s example, cheat and lie as much as possible also.

    That would be my advice to whoever faces trump.

    Call him all the names you can think of. Blacken his name non stop. Make up lies and hurl them at him constantly. All that type of thing seems to work judging on the last election. “When they go low, we go even lower”.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,423 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Good article here from The Boston Globe about Warren's stagnant poll numbers in NH

    Basically even though Democrat voters agree with much of her policy they don't see her as the person to beat Trump and thus are not supporting her, they are looking towards Joe Biden for that.

    And I'm sure it's national and not just in NH

    https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2019/04/30/elizabeth-warren-new-hampshire-primary-poll
    There’s a recent history of presidential candidates from Massachusetts winning the New Hampshire primary: John F. Kennedy in 1960, Michael Dukakis in 1988, Paul Tsongas in 1992, John Kerry in 2004, Mitt Romney in 2012.

    Roughly eight months out from the nation’s first 2020 primary, Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s path to following suit doesn’t look great.

    Early 2020 polls on the Democratic primary race have consistently shown Warren trailing in New Hampshire. A Suffolk University/Boston Globe poll released Tuesday had the Massachusetts senator in fourth place in the crowded field of candidates, though a plurality of voters were still undecided. Warren’s support has remained virtually unchanged dating back to her Dec. 31 exploratory committee announcement, with poll after poll in the Granite State showing her hovering in the high single digits.

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    Ironically, most voters support Warren’s platform.

    Suffolk found majority support for higher taxes on the wealthy (82 percent), Medicare for All (76 percent), free higher education (60 percent), and a Green New Deal (53 percent). A plurality (42 percent) also said they supported breaking up big tech companies, an idea that Warren has recently championed. The only proposal voters opposed in the poll was reparation payments to the descendants of slaves (Warren supports legislation to study the concept).

    So why aren’t most New Hampshire Democrats on board with Warren’s campaign if they like her ideas?

    Unlike the previous polls, Suffolk also surveyed the specific question of why Granite State voters weren’t for Warren. And while they gave a number of different reasons, David Paleologos, the director of the Suffolk University Political Research Center, says they boil down to two issues: perceptions about Warren’s “electability” and personality.

    Nearly 18 percent of voters who did not pick Warren said their primary reason was that she “can’t beat Donald Trump,” according to the poll. Less than 5 percent said the reason was that the issue of her Native American heritage claims made her too “vulnerable” — even if most Democratic voters have reportedly dismissed the controversy.

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    Less than 9 percent said they weren’t voting for Warren because “her policies are too liberal.”

    “Most Democratic primary voters are so focused on replacing Trump, politically, that they’re willing to compromise for someone whose feet will be held to the progressive fire,” Paleologos told Boston.com.

    Cue Joe Biden.

    Despite the laundry list of progressive liabilities in Biden’s record, the former vice president is perceived to be best-equipped to tackle the issue that matters most to Democrats in 2020: Defeating Trump in the general election.

    More than 35 percent of respondents in Suffolk’s poll said that Biden was the Democratic candidate that had the best chance of beating Trump. Only one other candidate — Sanders, with 13 percent — registered above 5 percent on the question. Less than 3 percent said Warren had the best shot of winning in November.

    A Quinnipiac poll that was also released Tuesday further confirmed that view on the national level; 56 percent of Democrats and Democratic-leaning voters said Biden had the best chance to beat Trump. Again, just 3 percent said the same for Warren.

    The other issue cutting against Warren, at least in New Hampshire, is the view that she is the “wrong messenger, personally,” according to Paleologos.

    Suffolk’s poll found that nearly 11 percent of voters said the primary reason they weren’t supporting the Bay State senator was that “she doesn’t excite me,” while just less than 10 percent said Warren “comes off as angry.” While the Boston-based group didn’t ask about voters’ non-support of other candidates for comparison, the narrative of likability, like electability, is one that critics say carries overtones of sexism in American politics. Some male candidates — from Sen. Bernie Sanders to President Donald Trump — have wielded anger to benefit their political brand.

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    Paleologos says there is one way gender dynamics could play to Warren’s benefit in the Democratic primary. Recent polls, including Suffolk’s, have frequently shown her as the leading female presidential candidate in the race — which he says is especially important with a Democratic electorate that is roughly 60 percent women.

    Paleologos also noted that, while Warren hasn’t risen much in the polls, she also hasn’t fallen at all either, as candidates like California Sen. Kamala Harris and former Texas Rep. Beto O’Rourke saw their poll numbers drop amid the rise of South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg.

    As The Washington Post recently reported, Warren campaign’s strategy is to use her ever-expanding list of detailed policy proposals to establish her as the candidate with the clearest presidential platform. Paleologos says that she could be well positioned if she hangs around as the 20-candidate field narrows down and “exceeds expectations” in Iowa ahead of the New Hampshire primary.

    “It is early. There are a lot of undecided voters,” Paleologos said (nearly 27 percent in Suffolk’s New Hampshire poll).

    After all, in 2004, Kerry trailed by double-digits in New Hampshire through the second half of 2003, before coming back to win the state’s 2004 Democratic primary. Of course, the then-Massachusetts senator also went on to lose against the Republican incumbent in the general election, which is what Democratic voters fear above all else in 2020.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,423 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    theguzman wrote: »
    Alote of American's hate Obama because he is black, they hated his policies and his flirtations with democratic socialism. The US House was controlled by the GOP whch contributed heavily to the recovery and the natural cycle was recovery after a crash anyway. For me Obama was terrible and he and Hillary caused more carnage in the Mid-East than Dubya did with Iraq. The Americans pushed back and got an almost diametric polar opposite of Obama in Trump.

    A few years back another poster here, who lives in the US, articulated how that because US government is so devolved their is very little the president does that directly impacts a lot of people.

    The president is looked towards for bigger things like international affairs etc, other stuff is dealt with at state and local level.

    So with that in the mind of the voters Obama was a foreign policy disaster.
    Under his watch Putin trampled all over Crimea with impunity, ISIS trampled all over Iraq with impunity, Assad crossed his red lines in Syria with impunity and he reopened diplomatic relations with Cuba without a single concession from Havana and Raul Castro mocked him after he did it.

    So when it comes to areas where the president has most infulene Obama is not looked back on with any fondness as another poster implied.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,569 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I think policy will matter in the this election, especially if the Demcrats hope to win back control of the Senate. Both campaigns need to have nested messages, and should campaign on that. That will require the Dems to both recognise the desire on the part of the electorate for more socialized programs, and for them to solidify around a candidate who can push that message.

    I could see Biden plumping for Warren as VP or a major cabinet position. Make up for his lack of firm policy ideas by co-opting hers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    I think policy will matter in the this election, especially if the Demcrats hope to win back control of the Senate. Both campaigns need to have nested messages, and should campaign on that. That will require the Dems to both recognise the desire on the part of the electorate for more socialized programs, and for them to solidify around a candidate who can push that message.

    I could see Biden plumping for Warren as VP or a major cabinet position. Make up for his lack of firm policy ideas by co-opting hers.

    Unfortunately, 2020 isn't looking strong for the Democrats. They really only stand a chance in Maine and Colorado (+2 seats) and are likely to lose a seat in Alabama.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Why is it that people can't seem to grasp that 42% of American voters are Independent and are quite comfortable changing parties from election to election? Of course there are core Republican and core Democrat voters, but Independent voters are the largest group. While a majority might lean toward one party or the other, the historical evidence is they will switch if motivated.

    It's on the 4th page of this report, 28.7% of white working class voters switched from Obama in 2012 to Trump in 2016, and a whopping 60% who had not voted in 2012 voted for Trump.

    https://www.sociologicalscience.com/download/vol-5/april/SocSci_v5_234to245.pdf

    I thought that was well known. It doesn’t fit into the narrative of bigots and racists, though.

    Unless the democrats tear themselves apart Trump won’t win though. He hasn’t delivered to his base (not republicans only but his base). The factories are not coming back.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Jamiekelly wrote: »
    Once he makes the pitch for $1,000 a month for every citizen and he says the likes of facebook and amazon are going to be the ones paying for it then the conservative rust best and blue collar working democrats are going to take notice. .

    I believe he wants a VAT type tax to pay for it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    sandbelter wrote: »
    Dems still struggling in key battleground state of Michigan


    https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2019/04/democratic-presidential-candidates-seek-to-crack-trumps-michigan-support.html


    What seems to escaped most people is that under his watch Chinese exports hollowed out the US industrial base, he played a fiddle while the US Blue collar base burned and did nothing about China. Until the Dems have cold hard look at the exchange between late Steve Jobs and Obama about "why doesn't Apple build iPhones in America" it won't grasp that it put the interests of a Dem donor first and its voters second...and in doing so left the door open for Trump to connect with the alienated rust belt voters.


    Dems still still don't get it...they have make hard choices between their donor base's interests and the voters they need to win. Social justice issues and Russian meddling narrative isn't going to cut it.



    Apple and Dems
    http://fortune.com/2016/08/24/apple-tim-cook-fundraiser-clinton/

    That link shows Apple is not a major donator to anybody (no PAC) and that they held fundraisers for Clinton and Paul Ryan. In fact IT companies are pretty naive in lobbying.

    As for what Jobs said, he was telling the truth as he saw it. “The jobs aren’t coming back”. And Trump hasn’t reverted that which is why he will lose some of the working class vote he got last time. So I don’t see him winning unless the democrats elect somebody crazy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hill16bhoy


    Good article here from The Boston Globe about Warren's stagnant poll numbers in NH

    Basically even though Democrat voters agree with much of her policy they don't see her as the person to beat Trump and thus are not supporting her, they are looking towards Joe Biden for that.

    And I'm sure it's national and not just in NH

    https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2019/04/30/elizabeth-warren-new-hampshire-primary-poll
    A sad indictment of how the cancer of so called "likeability" has infected political perception - especially in relation to female candidates.

    Warren is an excellent candidate and one who actually campaigns on real policy.

    But she's not a reality TV star, she's not "pretty", she has a "shrill voice", and thus, she's deemed "unlikeable" and "unelectable" in the terminally shallow environment of spectacle politics.

    It seems to me that a Barbie clone with thoughts to match is the only sort of woman that has a chance of being elected US president. Ivanka Trump, in other words.

    People really do get the politicians they deserve.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    I would say Elizabeth Warren is fairly handsome for her age, and politics isn’t for lookers either. Although Tulsi is fine.

    Warren is running on, or at least supportive of, the reparations issue both for blacks and native Americans which is probably going to make some of the people who might vote for her poorer. Harris too I think.

    Then of course there is her Native American claim


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,198 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    I would say Elizabeth Warren is fairly handsome for her age, and politics isn’t for lookers either. Although Tulsi is fine.

    Warren is running on, or at least supportive of, the reparations issue both for blacks and native Americans which is probably going to make some of the people who might vote for her poorer. Harris too I think.

    Then of course there is her Native American claim

    Anyone who is too vocal in entertaining reparations will be viewed as a joke candidate.

    It shows the desperation in Warren's camp.

    I think barring a significant economic mess in 2020 that Trump will walk it home.He can lose, no doubt but the surprise will be if he does. Things are going well there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    I believe he wants a VAT type tax to pay for it.

    Reckon future fiscal returns from stimulus will be the largest factor, but his FAQ page:
    https://www.yang2020.com/what-is-ubi/

    Does mention 10%VAT (common already around the world).

    Ultimately if quality of life conditions improve, then widespread cost saving can occur: from crime prevention (their average lifespan has been reduced, due the opioids epidemic, and incarceration rates are shocking), skillsbase upgrades, healthcare, new risk-free entrants to the emmerging gig-economy and so on.

    Before long (2/3 decades) the US may become the lapdog of a Chinese powerhouse, or even the largest democracy in the world (India). Could also become at risk full reserve currency replacement via a closer BRICS type union.

    If it wants to regain a peaceful advantage, some fresh thinking might be required.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭peddlelies


    Danzy wrote: »

    I think barring a significant economic mess in 2020 that Trump will walk it home.He can lose, no doubt but the surprise will be if he does.

    Disagree with you there, I think Biden will win by well over 5 points or an even bigger margin. Long way to go still

    If Biden wasn't running I'd fancy Trump to win vs any of the others


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 609 ✭✭✭RickBlaine


    We are 18 months away from the election. Did primary campaigns always start so early. I can't remember Obama's or Bush's primaries.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭FatherTed


    RickBlaine wrote: »
    We are 18 months away from the election. Did primary campaigns always start so early. I can't remember Obama's or Bush's primaries.

    The Iowa caucus(first vote) is not until February so a long way to go yet.

    I think it's way to early to predict who the Dem nominee will be. Biden got his bump when he entered but so did the likes of Beto who has since fallen down in the polls. So time will tell.

    Also, for the eventual election with Trump, as 2016 told us, polls on an overall national scale were actually pretty accurate e.g. most polls nationally had Hillary winning by 3% and she won the popular vote by 2%. It's in the individual state polling where they failed.

    Finally, anyone predicting Trump will win or <insert Dem here> will win is totally incorrect. Its going to be close not matter what and we probably will not know until the day itself how those close states will go.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    FatherTed wrote: »
    probably will not know until the day itself how those close states will go.

    Agree with this, maybe not until the final hours of counting. Can remember the change of mood from live tv studio broadcasts as trump swung from a 10/1 shot, to a certain winner.

    I.e. Come back June 2020, of thereafter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,365 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    FatherTed wrote: »
    The Iowa caucus(first vote) is not until February so a long way to go yet.

    I think it's way to early to predict who the Dem nominee will be. Biden got his bump when he entered but so did the likes of Beto who has since fallen down in the polls. So time will tell.

    Beto didn't see much of a bump at all, Sanders and Harris did https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057893861/34/#post109721717
    Finally, anyone predicting Trump will win or <insert Dem here> will win is totally incorrect. Its going to be close not matter what and we probably will not know until the day itself how those close states will go.

    Agree. It's going to be close either way. Talk of Biden winning by 5 percentage point or Trump landslide is completely crazy right now.

    270towin have basically called election in 45 states already bar Florida, Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona and Pennsylvania


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,773 ✭✭✭eire4


    Way too early to say who will end up as the Democratic nominee but no question the corporate Democrats will do everything they can to make sure it is Biden so that they can all stay on the corporate gravy train. They will use fear about electability or what is actually realistic policy wise etc and given a large chunk of the US population has checked out and about 45% will not even vote the fear tactics quite likely will win the day sadly.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 914 ✭✭✭The Phantom Jipper


    Warren is in the cover of Time now. It feels like her campaign is getting a bit of momentum. She's consistently around 4th or 5th in the polls and seems to have moved a tier above the Bookers and Klobuchars


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    I honestly don't think any of these candidates stand a chance against Trump. Bernie is too left for the USA. Biden has too much creepy uncle about him.

    All Trump needs to do is repeat "Commie Sanders" and "Creepy Joe Biden" and they are finished.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    I honestly don't think any of these candidates stand a chance against Trump. Bernie is too left for the USA. Biden has too much creepy uncle about him.

    All Trump needs to do is repeat "Commie Sanders" and "Creepy Joe Biden" and they are finished.

    The idea that Trump could refer to anyone as "Creepy" is just absurd. I'd imagine he'd still do it anyway.

    Problem is that Republicans generally seem to be happy to ignore any indiscretion & just vote "R", whereas Dems seem to turn off a candidate more easily


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I honestly don't think any of these candidates stand a chance against Trump. Bernie is too left for the USA. Biden has too much creepy uncle about him.

    All Trump needs to do is repeat "Commie Sanders" and "Creepy Joe Biden" and they are finished.

    The mystery X factor is Trump himself: not his demeanour (though that is an aspect), but the simple reality that he's not the Hurler on the Ditch anymore; it was easy to stand out & dominate the Rep. Primaries with his loud braggadocio and promises. Now he's literally the Establishment.

    Unless his proxies wage a successful campaign of distraction, you'd imagine the focus will be on his policy failures - the attempt at repealing Obamacare a particular highlight, one that has only increased popularity of alternatives such as Single Payer - and the noted absence of swamp draining (indeed, there's a legitimate case to be made that the swamp has only deepened).

    Trump has never had his actions or decisions scrutinised or reviewed by the public; hell there's even a fair supposition about whether he'd even accept an election that doesn't go his way. Let's not forget he equivocated about it the first time around in 2016, refusing to say if he'd accept a result for Clinton. Heck, even AFTER he won he couldn't accept he lost the popular vote and set up a phoney investigation over 'millions of illegals' that voted.

    This could yet get very messy if the Democrats made inroads...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,365 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    I honestly don't think any of these candidates stand a chance against Trump. Bernie is too left for the USA. Biden has too much creepy uncle about him.

    All Trump needs to do is repeat "Commie Sanders" and "Creepy Joe Biden" and they are finished.

    For a guy who is on video demeaning women and has been accused of rape by his ex wife calling Biden creepy will likely misfire completely for Trump.

    It's funny that many Trump followers think 2020 is already wrapped up yet Trump himself is holding campaign rallies in all the key battleground states in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Florida the other night.. obviously he or his team are not convinced if they are already committing this much time to getting their message out this early.

    The argument that Sanders is too left doesn't really hold water when Americans as a whole especially 18-49 year olds are becoming more progressive not more conservative https://prospect.org/article/most-americans-are-liberal-even-if-they-don’t-know-it

    Even with the economy the way it is and Dow at record level Biden still leads Trump; by 5 in Arizona, by 1 in Texas, by 6 in Iowa, by 8 in Wisconsin, by 8 in Michigan..all states Trump won in 2016.

    2020 is going to be alot closer than people think.


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