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The Middle Distance Thread
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07-01-2014 11:27pm#1So I thought I would set up a thread for those runners who are going to focus on the middle distances, from 800m to 3000m. There are a good few logs now by people focusing on these distances, and I thought this could be a good place to share training ideas, race strategies, or any info about upcoming races and events.
So I'll get us started, what events are people looking to focus on? 800m, 1500m, 3000m? Or will you double up, 800/1500m or 1500/3000m? Are you running indoors or just going to concentrate on outdoors? What base work are you doing? When will you start specific sessions?
Myself, I'm hoping to double up the 800/1500m with the 1500m as the main event. Not really going to focus on indoors, just might do the Leinsters to see where I'm at. Just doing base work at the moment, steady mileage and I'm going to include a tempo run from tomorrow night. My training will be a mix of my own ideas and a plan my coach is in the process of putting together.
Hopefully we can keep this thread alive among all the marathon threads!
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Probably won't guess it to look at my training but the intention is to spend the summer working on more middle distance (1500-5k). Probably taking Lydiard too literal with regards marathon conditioning before speed work
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I reckon 2 weeks recovery after the marathon will bring me perfectly into May giving me roughly 12 weeks of middle distance specific work. From here I will be mainly working on speed development and lactic tolerance style sessions.
Doing alot more plyometrics and weights this year compared to most and am certainly feeling its helping. Have only had one proper speed session over the winter and there was speed there that shocked me which probably attributing to the ancillary work as these sessions have really stressed the CNS and there has been days where it has left me completely fried for the rest of the day beyond the usual muscular fatigue0 -
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BeepBeep67 wrote: »Training back in the day was a lot of 200 - 600m work and then racing under distance as part of the final phase.
Some good tips in this thread from a while back!
Useful thread alright. I definitely may give the odd few 3ks a go also, my 3k pb of 9.40ish does me no justice at all, and I also want no repeats of that 3k me and you did last year, where ya almost handed me my arse
(some smackdown talk ha!) 0 -
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I kept finding references to track races outside competition and gradeds last year but I couldn't find any details or how to enter them, so any info would be very much appreciated.
In general the most of them would be showup on the day and enter. As the numbers are fairly small in track races, they most certainly don't get given the same level of advertising as mass participle races, which explains why it can be so hard to find details on them. Here in Wicklow, we usually have two fit4life graded mile races, bray runners host an invitational mile in June every year (easy enough to get an invite for it in fairness), the Wicklow T&F is around may, as far as I know you can guest in that if you aren't from Wicklow? As well as that, the IMC meet in may has gone from strength to strenght every year. Then various other odd races during the year. All of these on the Greystones track. Anyways, my point being that if in one smallish county like Wicklow, we have all these races, then I'd assume throughout the country there are plenty of low key races that the most of us never hear about, or only hear on the day/afterwards! 0 -
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'Core'/Core Stability (CS) is a multi billion $ business con, especially where runners are concerned. There is no such thing as core. And it is dangerous for the health of the spine/pelvic region for people to engage in isometric contractions of the supposed 'core' muscles.
Now, I know most people on here - and around the globe - are there in their bedrooms in the old plank position giving it welly - front planks, back planks, side planks, being planks. But planks and many similar so called 'core' exercises are detrimental to functional movement and the longevity of health for the 'core' area . In fact, if people bang away at the plank stuff they will, in time, get injured. And the injuries are bad.
I'll put some 'stuff' together and post it. But if you just think for a moment about how the body functions in the so called 'core area' (glutes, hip flexors, abs, erector spinae QL and all the rest of those beastie boys) you'll soon realise that isometric work in this region will develop some prime movers and leave behind smaller muscles that should be firing first. This causes, amongst other things, muscles to fire in the wrong order. This manifests in lower back pain, 'glutes not firing' - they are, because if your glutes weren't firing you wouldn't be able to walk, let alone run a sub four min mile, piriformis syndrome, achilles problems, and many more complicated things like sports hernia.
Just try this: lie down on your back, slowly roll over on to your front (like how a baby would do), move onto your knees, and then stand up and raise your hands to the ceiling. Difficult? A bit. So, if your body has 'forgotten/lost' the ability to do the most basic functions, why on earth would you pulverise one of the most sensitive, complicated, and important areas of your body with isometric work, which if we're honest, most people wouldn't even be doing properly.
Like I said, I'll put some stuff together and try to put it in a way that makes sense and is easy to follow. If you must do some sort of 'core' work. Do the aforementioned exercise of standing up or you could do monsters and caterpillars...
Thanks for the quick respond Stazza.
I'll read through your respond later in more detail and may have more questions to ask 0 -
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Some great responses here, thanks guys. I suppose at the minute I do a fair amount of strength work, up until now this has mostly been for injury rehab/prevention. A few things I do include:
Calf raises on both legs and single legs
Double leg squats
Single leg standing for balance on flat foot and with raised heel
Single leg squats
Push-ups (I know these won't really help but can't hurt anyway)
Plank (Although I might change this now based on what Stazza said)
A lot of this stuff is to help develop lower leg strength and balance/mobility as I got a lot of lower leg niggles last year.0 -
Some great responses here, thanks guys. I suppose at the minute I do a fair amount of strength work, up until now this has mostly been for injury rehab/prevention. A few things I do include:
Calf raises on both legs and single legs
Double leg squats
Single leg standing for balance on flat foot and with raised heel
Single leg squats
Push-ups (I know these won't really help but can't hurt anyway)
Plank (Although I might change this now based on what Stazza said)
A lot of this stuff is to help develop lower leg strength and balance/mobility as I got a lot of lower leg niggles last year.
Made a change myself this year. Normally I would have done alot of body weight stuff similar to you but over the last 3 months have started doing alot more compound exercises to develop power - Deadlifts, Squats (using Smith machine), Leg press, Cleans and have coupled these with plyometric work. At the moment I would do this only once a week but I attribute it to being able to do some decent shorter sessions when my turnover work has been minimal as of late0 -
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Thanks for the quick respond Stazza.
I'll read through your respond later in more detail and may have more questions to ask
First off, I’ve taken this thread off topic – apologies for that; I’ll try and bring it back on topic.
Just to clarify a few points: I have no agenda and nobody should change their training based on what I say – I’m just trying to generate a bit of healthy debate and get people thinking about what they are doing. I strongly suspect that many readers might be Physical Therapists, Sports Massage Therapists, Pilates Instructors, Personal Trainers, Physiotherapists etc; I’m not trying to undermine the hard and good work that these people do.
I’m, amongst other things, a retired Physical Therapist. Many moons ago I set up a company called Peak Sporting Performance, which took off pretty well and I sold it off piecemeal.
I was based at Iffley Road, Oxford – where Bannister broke the first 4 min mile. I looked after over 50 sports teams for the University, including the Athletics team and the boat crews. Our team looked after everything from nutrition, strength and conditioning, injury management, fitness assessments etc. Basically, the whole caboodle. That said, it doesn’t mean I know what I’m on about. Most people working in this area blag it. I’ll tell you the signs to watch out for.
Currently, I look after/advise/ discuss training with a good number of distance runners – the top guys being in the 64 -66 mins for the half; 2:17-2:22 for the marathon and a few middle distance guys who are handy enough. But my biggest pleasure is seeing plodders becoming ‘real’ runners.
So, there’s no agenda.
Middle Distance:
As I said before, the best starting place is the BMC website – it’s awesome. Everything from Coe to developing kids. What’s really good is to see how views about training always change – but many of the basics stay the same. So I would recommend heading over there for a gander. Steve Magness is pretty good too and has some controversial but thought provoking ideas.
Core Stability
There is no such thing as ‘The Core’ – it doesn’t exist. You have a spine and muscles that attach to it. The muscles control the spinal area. This complex area functions 3 dimensionally. The motor system controls posture and movement. The spine is robust. Very robust. It is not a vulnerable structure.
Since birth, you have been developing this area so that it operates in a functional and natural manner. Certain lifestyle habits mess it up a bit – like sitting here and typing this tripe.
Because this area is continuously working to keep you upright and fascilitate movement and many other things, if you start bashing the life out it with unnatural firing patterns, you make it over active and change the firing patterns/efficacy of the structures – this is not good. Problems start to develop and as mentioned before, results in injuries.
While the spinal area is robust, it is not designed to take the type of compression that comes from planks etc. Stressing this area by stiffening the muscles or bracing them prior to movement disrupts the natural firing patterns and compresses structures and instigates pain - insidiously. From here, complex problems arise. Other muscles start coming in and taking over the work of overworked/stressed muscles and structures like the Tr A wall and multifidus. From here, you’re on a long journey to hell.
Now, you still need to make sure this area functions effectively and facilitates the necessary 20 degrees of movement for hip extension, as well as many other jobs. The best way to do this is through functional movement patterns – look up monsters, crabs, and caterpillars and all that sorts of dynamic stuff. These simple exercises will keep everything working nicely.
Also, it’s important to work certain muscles in the hip area as they get negleted through running, notably G Min and G Med. By keeping an eye on these little babies you’ll prevent many injuries. But don’t overdo it. Check out Jay Johnson’s myrtle routine, this with some clams and reversed clams and leg raises will be enough.
One more thing, before going to see anybody about any type of sports injury, tell them that you have a stabbing pain from your xyphoid process – if they don’t laugh, run like hell: you’re gonna get ripped off.
Anyway, that should get things going. I know this is a simplified explanation – if anybody wants to have a more technical discussion, pm me.0 -
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