The Irishman (Scorsese, De Niro, Pesci and Pacino)

shazzerman · 21-05-2016 12:08pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Wolf of Wall Street, Vinyl, Boardwalk Empire in the last 5 years alone...all outstanding. I mean what is not an embarrassment if they are?

A director like Scorsese, not a producer like Scorsese...(1 episode on Boardwalk, same with Vinyl). My disappointment with Scorsese comes from comparing his best work with his recent work. It is the enormous gulf between them that I find "a bit embarrassing." To me, The Departed and The Wolf of Wall Street are embarrassing films - I cringe through large swathes of both when I have to watch them. The Wolf of Wall Street, in terms of filmmaking art, is nowhere near the level of Casino, for instance (both films share something in terms of narrative and themes). The Departed is just ugly characters shouting at each other, put over with Scorsese's affinity for the genre - but I hated it. Casino, The King of Comedy, Taxi Driver and Raging Bull are four of the very best American films ever made; nothing in the 2000s comes close to any of those, for me - and two of them actually make me feel embarrassment when I watch them. I think the problem might be Scorsese's ramping up what Bordwell calls the "intensified continuity" style; aligning this with what I see as a mis-match between director and screenplay - on The Departed, William Monahan didn't have the relationship with Scorsese that Schrader, Mardik Martin,and Pileggi had, for example. The script is completely plot-driven, with the characters an uninteresting bunch of nervous tics and uninspired dialogue. The only scene that really works in The Departed, I think, is the opening "I don't want to be a product of my environment. I want my environment to be a product of me" sequence. It works as a call-back to other great Scorsese scenes more than anything else (Mean Streets, Goodfellas), but the rest of the film lets it down. The Wolf of Wall Street is, for me, just another bunch of even uglier characters, making more noise, and very little of it having any relationship with great cinema.

Canadel · 21-05-2016 12:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Wolf of Wall Street, Vinyl, Boardwalk Empire in the last 5 years alone...all outstanding. I mean what is not an embarrassment if they are?

One of the worst movies ever made.

Probably the worst supposedly good movie I've seen.

Total amateurish trash.

The Departed I think is a very good movie though.

McLoughlin · 21-05-2016 1:01pm

Hugo is a fantastic film and the way 3D is used by Scorsese is amazing but its 3D so no one cared about it.

Sad Professor · 21-05-2016 1:07pm

The problem with Wolf of Wall Street is that it makes no judgments on its characters and offers no answers either. But this is also part of its brilliance. As much as we scoff at the moralism of Hays code films, it's still hard to deal with a film so utterly benefit of redemption. The film feels like Scorsese's answer to Scarface and Wall Street, very moral films that were trying to denounce their vile protagonists but only succeeded in glorifying them even further. Ironically by totally embracing Belfort's worldview and by actively trying to glorify his excesses, Scorsese captures the sickness of greed from the inside better than any other film ever has.

We may hate now, but it's a very important film. And I think time will show that.

22-05-2016 9:48am

A bit OTT on the Wolf of Wall Street....are people looking for some moral decision making by the director or what? Embarrassment and one of the worst films ever made...hardly! I thought Scorcese captured perfectly the greed and arrogance of a time, and depicted it with the looseness it deserved. Ugly characters yes, but many of the great characters are, Gorden Gecko the perfect example.

Vinyl was a close to 2 hour pilot if i remember correctly, it was a movie in its own right and really outstanding. Scorcese is a long way from losing his touch. Vinyl was the last thing he did and I thought it was up there with the best pilots I had ever seen.

shazzerman · 22-05-2016 1:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

A bit OTT on the Wolf of Wall Street....are people looking for some moral decision making by the director or what? Embarrassment and one of the worst films ever made...hardly! I thought Scorcese captured perfectly the greed and arrogance of a time, and depicted it with the looseness it deserved. Ugly characters yes, but many of the great characters are, Gorden Gecko the perfect example.

Vinyl was a close to 2 hour pilot if i remember correctly, it was a movie in its own right and really outstanding. Scorcese is a long way from losing his touch. Vinyl was the last thing he did and I thought it was up there with the best pilots I had ever seen.

One man's "looseness" is another man's "reverence."

JP Liz V1 · 24-05-2016 12:49am

Duggy747 wrote: »

Aaah poo, Joe Pesci has apparently said no to the film.

Chazz Palminteri as replacement for Joe?

cowboyBuilder · 24-05-2016 9:16am

shazzerman wrote: »

A director like Scorsese in the 1970s-1980s (and a couple of outstanding films in the 1990s), maybe; post-millennium Marty has been a bit of an embarrassment, I think.

The Departed and Wolf of Wall street ... excellent films.

Maybe you are right about Gangs of New York tho ..

Sad Professor · 24-05-2016 10:09am

Gangs of New York is really good, just compromised by studio interference in post-production.

JohnFalstaff · 24-05-2016 12:21pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

Gangs of New York is really good, just compromised by studio interference in post-production.

I'll defend The Wolf of Wall Street all day long as one of Scorsese's best, but Gangs of New York is a bit of a mess. It has its moments, and a great central performance form Daniel Day Lewis, but studio interference must have been way beyond post-production; anytime Cameron Diaz is on screen the whole thing comes crashing down.

Sad Professor · 24-05-2016 3:06pm

Yeah she was badly miscast. Scorsese cast her to help pay for the sets. Same reason he cast Leo, really, but that relationship proved quite fruitful.

cowboyBuilder · 24-05-2016 3:48pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yeah she was badly miscast. Scorsese cast her to help pay for the sets. Same reason he cast Leo, really, but that relationship proved quite fruitful.

I think that was his last bad movie for me ... he grew right up after that film and is now one of the best ... and is only 40 - think of the great films ahead for him.

parttime · 24-05-2016 4:08pm

Loved the Aviator! Underrated I reckon. Cate Blanchet was really good.
Loved Casino, Goodfellas. Departed was OK, as was Wolf, although at least half an hour too long.
Recently rewatched Gangs and it was a mess. Too long with not enough substance,Cameron should not have been near it and Daniel seems to have been taking lessons from the Pacino School of Overacting. Just my opinions, not a film school graduate or anything.

JP Liz V1 · 21-12-2016 1:49am

Update

De-aging De Niro

http://www.indiewire.com/2016/12/the-irishman-martin-scorsese-film-tested-technology-de-age-robert-de-niro-1201761140/

Joe Pesci and Al Pacino also in

Agent Coulson · 10-01-2017 7:53pm

Producer Gastón Pavlovich did a bit of a Q&A while promoting Silence

Are you still talking to Joe Pesci about coming aboard The Irishman?

PAVLOVICH: I know Bob is. Robert De Niro, that is. It’s in his hands now and I know he’s making an effort. There will be a time when we have to start that so I know he’s having those conversations with Joe and still trying to get him on board.

http://collider.com/silence-interview-gaston-pavlovich/#the-irishman

Wailin · 14-01-2017 6:28am

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Chazz Palminteri as replacement for Joe?

Hopefully not.

Agent Coulson · 22-02-2017 11:51pm

Netflix have acquired worldwide rights to this.

Netflix Buys Martin Scorsese’s ‘The Irishman’ Starring Robert De Niro

Netflix has acquired worldwide rights to Martin Scorsese’s gangster movie “The Irishman,” starring Robert De Niro.

Netflix would not comment on the deal but sources close to the project confirmed a report by IndieWire.

“The Irishman” will be the ninth collaboration between Scorsese and De Niro. Steven Zaillian has written the script, based on the Charles Brandt’s 2004 book, “I Heard You Paint Houses,” which centered on the life of the mob hitman Frank “The Irishman” Sheeran.

Scorsese and De Niro first partnered on 1973’s “Mean Streets,” followed by “Taxi Driver,” “New York, New York,” “Raging Bull,” “The King of Comedy,” “Goodfellas,” “Cape Fear” and 1995’s “Casino.”

Production on “The Irishman” is expected to start later this year.

The project originated in 2008 at Paramount with De Niro’s Tribeca Productions and De Niro’s producing partner Jane Rosenthal along with Scorsese’s Sikelia Productions.

The book title “I Heard You Paint Houses” comes from criminal slang for contract killings and the blood splatter on walls. Brandt befriended Sheeran shortly before Sheeran died in 2003 and he confessed the author that he had been involved with the killing of Jimmy Hoffa, carried out on orders from mob boss Russell Bufalino. Hoffa disappeared in 1975 and was never found.

“The Irishman” would mark Scorsese’s follow-up to “Silence,” a major disappointment for Paramount since opening wide on Jan. 20. The $46 million-budgeted historical drama has earned just $7 million domestically and may have contributed to Brad Grey’s exit as CEO of the studio last week.

STX spent roughly $50 million for international rights to “The Irishman” at last year’s Cannes Film Festival with Paramount still on board at that point to distribute the title in North America.

STX and Paramount were not immediately available for comment Tuesday.

http://variety.com/2017/film/news/netflix-buys-martin-scorseses-the-irishman-starring-robert-de-niro-1201993446/

WHIP IT! · 24-02-2017 2:43pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Netflix have acquired worldwide rights to this.

Netflix Buys Martin Scorsese’s ‘The Irishman’ Starring Robert De Niro

http://variety.com/2017/film/news/netflix-buys-martin-scorseses-the-irishman-starring-robert-de-niro-1201993446/[/URL]

Apologies for possibly stupid question - but does this mean it will not be getting a cinema release?

Agent Coulson · 24-02-2017 2:58pm

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Apologies for possibly stupid question - but does this mean it will not be getting a cinema release?

It depends really If Netflix want it and hope for it to get nominated the big awards it will have to have at the very least a limited cinema release to be considered for the Oscars, Golden Globes, BAFTA's etc.

McLoughlin · 24-02-2017 6:37pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

It depends really If Netflix want it and hope for it to get nominated the big awards it will have to have at the very least a limited cinema release to be considered for the Oscars, Golden Globes, BAFTA's etc.

It has to be one cinema in New York and LA for a few showings for Oscars

Sad Professor · 24-02-2017 7:55pm

i predict a good festival run followed by a simultaneous release that most exhibitors will boycott.

Agent Coulson · 12-07-2017 7:24pm

Joe Pesci has officially signed on

:D

Joe Pesci, Harvey Keitel, Bobby Cannavale Join Martin Scorsese’s ‘The Irishman’

Martin Scorsese is putting the band back together. Joe Pesci and Harvey Keitel have officially joined Al Pacino (whose deal is currently being finalized) and Robert De Niro in Scorsese’s Jimmy Hoffa disappearance film The Irishman. Bobby Cannavale is also joining the fray for Netflix.

The Irishman will mark the first time that Pacino and Scorsese will have worked together and the first time all the Italian greats are on the big screen together. The film starts shooting next month in and around New York and will continue through December.

Pesci’s involvement comes after the actor said no multiple times (some say about 50); a deal was just sealed this week. He will portray Russell Bufalino, a Mafia boss out of PA and has been long suspected of having a hand in the disappearance of Hoffa. Pesci and Scorsese have done five films together.

Producers of The Irishman are De Niro, Fabrica’s Gaston Pavlovich, Jane Rosenthal, Scorcese, Randall Emmett and Emma Tillinger Koskoff. The casting director Scorsese’s longtime collaborators Ellen Lewis with Thelma Schoonmaker serving as editor. The film is expected to get a small theatrical release to qualify for Oscar.

This project has been embroiled in controversy when the author of the book I Heard You Paint Houses (which is slang for a hit ala “painting” the walls with blood) Charles Brandt penned it based on the deathbed confession of Frank ‘The Irishman’ Sheeran. The hitman claimed to tell the real story of the disappearance of union former boss Jimmy Hoffa. However, the account that Sheeran told to Brandt has been disputed as well. Still, the FBI actually thought enough of Sheeran’s confession to pull up several floor board planks from a house where he said he shot and killed Hoffa to look for DNA (blood) evidence. Latter the bureau said that the DNA samples weren’t from the former Teamsters boss.

It’s one of the coldest cases in history, but there is no statute on murder so it is not closed.

Over the years, many stories about what happened to Hoffa has sprung forth, all to be debunked one by one by one. There are a couple of men still alive today whose knowledge of the event would still carry any weight with the FBI and who the bureau considers really do know what happened on July 30 after Hoffa got into Chuckie O’Brien’s car outside the Machus Red Fox restaurant and then disappeared, but these guys (now in their 90s) still aren’t talking.

The Hoffa kids, one still in the union politics in Detroit and the other a former judge in St. Louis, are still waiting for resolution to bring their father’s remains back to bury next to their mother. They nor anyone else will likely know the full story behind his disappearance, but it is very possible that they will find out where their father’s remains are in their lifetimes.

http://deadline.com/2017/07/joe-pesci-the-irishman-al-pacino-robert-de-niro-martin-scorsese-deal-1202126751/

Sad Professor · 13-07-2017 1:09pm

The film is expected to get a small theatrical release to qualify for Oscar.

Decuc500 · 13-07-2017 4:13pm

I can't imagine that Martin Scorsese, such a fan of the history of film and involved so much in film restoration, would be happy with his new film generally bypassing cinemas.

If this wasn’t shown in Irish cinemas it would make me very sad.

13-07-2017 11:05pm

I'm a bit lost here, why wouldn't it get a more general release with a cast, subject matter, and director like that?

I would have thought it would sell itself and pull decent audiences, even if it was crap it would cover its costs.

Or have cinema trends changed that much? (Maybe they could have a super hero cameo)

Deisler · 13-07-2017 11:07pm

I have a bad feeling about this..

Agent Coulson · 13-07-2017 11:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm a bit lost here, why wouldn't it get a more general release with a cast, subject matter, and director like that?

I would have thought it would sell itself and pull decent audiences, even if it was crap it would cover its costs.

Or have cinema trends changed that much? (Maybe they could have a super hero cameo)

Netflix are funding it and they want people to subscribe to them to watch it.

Sad Professor · 13-07-2017 11:47pm

Decuc500 wrote: »

I can't imagine that Martin Scorsese, such a fan of the history of film and involved so much in film restoration, would be happy with his new film generally bypassing cinemas.

All the other studios turned it down, so it seems he didn't have much choice but to go with Netflix and their release strategy.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm a bit lost here, why wouldn't it get a more general release with a cast, subject matter, and director like that?

I would have thought it would sell itself and pull decent audiences, even if it was crap it would cover its costs.

Or have cinema trends changed that much? (Maybe they could have a super hero cameo)

It's being distributed by Netflix who refuse to abide by the 90 day theatrical window. They insist on their films being released in theatres and online at the same time. Theatres see this as an attack on their business, so until Netflix back down or reach a compromise a general release is out of the question.

Agent Coulson · 07-12-2017 8:07pm

First picture of Joe Pesci.

JP Liz V1 · 02-09-2018 10:35pm

https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/movies/movie-news/the-irishman-why-scorsese-and-de-niro-175m-gangster-epic-is-netflixs-biggest-gamble-yet-37153538.html

Netflix so no cinema release?

jones · 03-09-2018 12:52pm

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

Wish this had of been done sooner in their careers.
Unfortunately both are well and truly past there prime.

This is my big far for this

Agent Coulson · 26-09-2018 3:53pm

Agent Coulson · 25-02-2019 4:51pm

It will be getting a cinema release.

pixelburp · 25-02-2019 5:11pm

That studios turned this down, only for Netflix to swoop in, has me worried - though that could say more about the state of the Netflix film brand at the moment than whether Scorsese has hit a bum note. Even his less-than-brilliant work has always entertained.

There's something about Irish-Americans though that rubs me up the wrong way - or at least Hollywood's portrayal of them. Feels like all the bad stereotypes about the Irish come from the US descendants, not the genuine articles

Agent Coulson · 25-02-2019 5:26pm

I think if I remember right Paramount (They would keep the North American rights) dropped it because the main money backer to the tune of a $100m a guy from Mexico pulled out.

That's when Netflix stepped in and took the rights.

CatFromHue · 25-02-2019 5:42pm

In May 2016, Mexican financier / producer Fábrica de Cine had offered $100 million to finance the film, and through that deal Paramount Pictures would retain domestic rights.[29] IM Global was also circling to bid for the film's international sales rights.[29] STX Entertainment bought the international distribution rights to the film for $50 million beating out other studios like Universal Pictures, 20th Century Fox, and Lionsgate, while Fabrica de Cine closed the deal and Paramount retained its domestic rights.[30]

By February 2017, Paramount Pictures had dropped domestic distribution rights for The Irishman following the announcement that Fabrica de Cine would not be financing the film due to its climbing budget. Netflix then bought the film for $105 million and agreed to finance the film's $125 million budget with a release date set for October 2019

It's going to be an expensive film, up to 175m now I think :eek:

pixelburp · 26-02-2019 12:27am

Apparently the budget size is down to the fact a lot of the film (the talk is up to half) will feature digitally de-aged versions of the principal cast. If that's true, then prospects become shakier IMO; Captain Marvel looks like it'll set the bar for taking years of actors' face but in general, the technique has had ... mixed results so far, never fully out of the uncanny valley...

TheIrishGrover · 26-02-2019 12:38pm

There would want to be pretty extensive use of de-aging for that budget (As opposed to brief flashbacks). As you say, results have been distracting so far. While Sam Jackson's de-aging seems to be much better in what we have seen so far, it remains to be seen if the quality can keep up constantly.

That's a hell of a lot of money for a non summer blockbuster FX-driven movie. It does beg the question, how do they make that back. Sure, they put up prices and their customer-base is increasing (although at a slower rate lately) but that's a chunk of change. Especially when you consider that it will be pirated extensively the instant it hits Netflix. They will have to stagger the US cinema release date and the European TV dates.

As for Hollywood's portrayal of Irish-Americans, I suppose we get an inkling of what Italian Americans got for so long.... At least there are no felt puppet Irish stereotypes flogging off pasta.

Sad Professor · 26-02-2019 12:57pm

There was period during the 40s and 50s when cinematic stereotypes of Irish-Americans were actually very positive (virtuous catholic priests etc) before taking a negative turn again in the 70s (corrupt cops, politicians etc). I guess it reflected the growing power of Irish-Americans in US society.

pixelburp · 26-02-2019 3:15pm

Slightly related to The Irishman in that a proper look at Captain Marvel's own de-aging was shown via a clip released today; it's pretty good, the technology's definitely getting better. Hopefully Scorcese has a good FX studio hired, cos the bar is arguably now set.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23uw0xDcI7Q

Sad Professor · 26-02-2019 3:34pm

I think The Irishman will be a much bigger test of the technology than Captain Marvel. Jackson looks extremely good for his age and has kept in shape. Also he's only being de-aged to what, his 40s? De Niro, Pacino etc are older than Jackson and I assume there will be a lot more de-ageing involved and probably the use of body doubles. Aren't they also making De Niro look taller? And these are the main characters.

I dunno, it's Scorsese and all, but I'm very sceptical about this film.

pixelburp · 26-02-2019 3:39pm

That's a fair point; Michael Douglas looks a bit more his age, and the de-aging in Ant-Man wasn't quite as spot on. Though again, Douglas is still in excellent shape for his age, while DeNiro / Pacino look a bit ... doughy these days...

Holy sh*t though, I just googled and Jackson is 70 :eek: May we all age as gracefully...

Agent Coulson · 19-03-2019 12:57am

Netflix had gotten an agreement for this to be shown at Cannes this year.

However the film won’t be ready with all the visual effects still ongoing.

It is now expected to premier at the Venice in September.

Agent Coulson · 29-07-2019 9:24pm

The film will debut at the New York film festival as the opening film in September.

https://twitter.com/TheNYFF/status/1155871442715717637?s=20

El Duda · 30-07-2019 8:05am

https://twitter.com/Sgtzima/status/1155890386654679041

the whole year inn · 30-07-2019 12:49pm

Say everyone that has Netflix will watch this even if it gets slated.

branie2 · 31-07-2019 12:38am

No cinema release though

Autecher · 31-07-2019 9:05am

branie2 wrote: »

No cinema release though

It will be getting a limited cinema release, enough to qualify it for award shows particularly the Oscars. Netflix did the same with the move Roma which I think was shown in the Lighthouse Cinema and the IFI over here.

helenawalsh · 31-07-2019 11:50am

I'd say it's probably the best Netflix production so far and will encourage other outstanding directors to work with Netflix.

Roar · 31-07-2019 1:18pm

Trailer was released on Twitter

https://twitter.com/TheIrishmanFilm/status/1156534975983828993

*Edit

And on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Expe7hf6MU

The Irishman (Scorsese, De Niro, Pesci and Pacino)

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