Tenant caused a leak in the apartment, causing water damage to some of my belongings

sheroman01 · 21-02-2019 2:41pm #1

A tenant living above me installed a new kitchen in their flat. I was not aware of this, and I'm not sure yet if they got permission from the landlord. This ended up causing a massive leak coming down into my flat and ended up ruining some of my items, including my laptop. I do not have house insurance. Laptop is just over 1 year old, so out of warranty and is totally destroyed, no way of fixing it. The landlord does not have insurance for tenant's personal belongings.

Have I any way of claiming back for my laptop here?

seamus · 21-02-2019 2:47pm

Not really.

Find out from the tenant, who installed the kitchen. If a professional plumber or fitter did it, then you may be able to claim off their professional insurance.

If the tenant themselves did it, then you can claim from them on the basis that they're not qualified to do plumbing work, but good luck getting them to pay up.

Ultimately this is why you should have renter's insurance.

coylemj · 21-02-2019 2:47pm

Does the tenant upstairs own a car?

sheroman01 · 21-02-2019 3:04pm

seamus wrote: »

Not really.

Find out from the tenant, who installed the kitchen. If a professional plumber or fitter did it, then you may be able to claim off their professional insurance.

If the tenant themselves did it, then you can claim from them on the basis that they're not qualified to do plumbing work, but good luck getting them to pay up.

Ultimately this is why you should have renter's insurance.

Tenant did it themselves.

In an ideal world we all should have insurance. It's only a 6 months lease, with an option for 1 year. Rent alone is a fortune. Getting insurance on top of this was not in my plans.

seamus · 21-02-2019 3:11pm

coylemj asks about the car above because as a rule of thumb, if the tenant doesn't have a car then the chance of them having enough money to pay compensation is pretty small.

However, you may be able to use the small claims procedure to claim for minor property damage.

First thing I'd do though is go up and have a word with him and explain that the leak has damaged your laptop and you need him to pay for it. The worst thing he can do is close the door in your face.

Mr. Incognito · 21-02-2019 3:49pm

I'd try to resolve it with the tenant first.

If no go then the management company who will have block insurance.

And if no go send a solicitors letter to both.

Spook_ie · 21-02-2019 3:54pm

Would the LL of the leaking property not have buildings insurance which might cover 3rd party claims?

21-02-2019 4:20pm

sheroman01 wrote: »

Tenant did it themselves.

In an ideal world we all should have insurance. It's only a 6 months lease, with an option for 1 year. Rent alone is a fortune. Getting insurance on top of this was not in my plans.

First off, how or why would a landlord allow a tenant to carry out renovations? unless they were qualified, not a good idea. As for insurance, I think property insurance for a rented property is a good idea, not sure by renters insurance if someone means property insurance but as you have no cover for personal items, seems like a bit of a risk to take, you took it and lost, now, someone else is at fault. Rental insurance if it is even available here would seem to cover damages, but I think only a form of personal items cover is available here? I cant imagine it being expensive to get and would surely be transferrable by updating an address.

hardly seems to be the management company fault though?
You say the landlord doesnt have insurance for tenants belongings, which is fair enough, this suggests you informed the landlord and arent guessing at that, where Im going is, make sure you formally inform the landlord promptly or you could find yourself getting faulted for breach of your lease, reporting ensures the landlord can can claim against their building insurance, shows you dealt with it as much as possible.

seamus wrote: »

coylemj asks about the car above because as a rule of thumb, if the tenant doesn't have a car then the chance of them having enough money to pay compensation is pretty small.

However, you may be able to use the small claims procedure to claim for minor property damage.

First thing I'd do though is go up and have a word with him and explain that the leak has damaged your laptop and you need him to pay for it. The worst thing he can do is close the door in your face.

Not quite sure how you know that? I missed where that was said???
Thought they were going to suggest via their car insurance, but was not sure how??

Small claim might be the way to go, would have to be under the specified value, have a chat alright, I cant imagine it would go far but worth a try, how do you value or prove the damage was caused at the time?

Spook_ie wrote: »

Would the LL of the leaking property not have buildings insurance which might cover 3rd party claims?

Buildings cover maybe, how would that cover the tenants personal property? and why would the landlord make a claim themselves, when they are not at fault other than to rectify the damage caused to the building?

Spook_ie · 21-02-2019 4:37pm

1874 wrote: »

First off, how or why would a landlord allow a tenant to carry out renovations? unless they were qualified, not a good idea. As for insurance, I think property insurance for a rented property is a good idea, not sure by renters insurance if someone means property insurance but as you have no cover for personal items, seems like a bit of a risk to take, you took it and lost, now, someone else is at fault. Rental insurance if it is even available here would seem to cover damages, but I think only a form of personal items cover is available here? I cant imagine it being expensive to get and would surely be transferrable by updating an address.

hardly seems to be the management company fault though?
You say the landlord doesnt have insurance for tenants belongings, which is fair enough, this suggests you informed the landlord and arent guessing at that, where Im going is, make sure you formally inform the landlord promptly or you could find yourself getting faulted for breach of your lease, reporting ensures the landlord can can claim against their building insurance, shows you dealt with it as much as possible.

Not quite sure how you know that? I missed where that was said???
Thought they were going to suggest via their car insurance, but was not sure how??

Small claim might be the way to go, would have to be under the specified value, have a chat alright, I cant imagine it would go far but worth a try, how do you value or prove the damage was caused at the time?

Buildings cover maybe, how would that cover the tenants personal property? and why would the landlord make a claim themselves, when they are not at fault other than to rectify the damage caused to the building?

The LL of the leaking property is surely responsible for damage to other apartments, I would think this would extend to contents.

seamus · 21-02-2019 4:40pm

1874 wrote: »

Not quite sure how you know that? I missed where that was said???
Thought they were going to suggest via their car insurance, but was not sure how??

I know someone who's recently been stiffed by a builder to the tune of ten grand. He managed to get a solicitor to give him a free consultation to discuss his options. The solicitor laid out the reality of how much it would actually cost to recover that ten grand through court (6-10 grand). Then asked if they had looked up the address of the builder on Google street view. They had; a council estate.

"And does his house look like it belongs to someone who has 20 grand to spare?"

If you want someone to give you €1,000 to replace your laptop you have to ask whether they are likely to have €1,000 on hand to give you. If you try to sue them you might just end up poorer and unhappier.
Not having a car is a decent rule of thumb - though if someone is in the city centre they may just choose not to.

seamus · 21-02-2019 4:44pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

The LL of the leaking property is surely responsible for damage to other apartments, I would think this would extend to contents.

The property which is the source of a leak or a fire is not generally liable for the cost of damages suffered by other properties. Everyone takes care of their own damage. Standard practice.

The only time the source is liable is if it can be shown that they caused it through negligence.

In this case the LL would be liable if he had authorised the works. Since the tenant undertook these works without authorisation, he is personally liable for the damages that result from those works.

coylemj · 21-02-2019 4:55pm

I asked if the tenant had a car as a test to see if he/she had any assets worth chasing in the event that the OP got a judgement. If not, it would be throwing good money after bad to sue and end up with a useless piece of paper.

The OP has no contents insurance and I can't see how the landlord could be held liable. It's been suggested that the OP sue the plumber or kitchen fitter but can he do that when he had no contract with them? My understanding of the process is that it would be up to the OP to sue the tenant and the tenant in turns sues the plumber or kitchen guy for professional negligence.

Looks like a dead end to me.

emeldc · 21-02-2019 5:52pm

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I'd try to resolve it with the tenant first.

If no go then the management company who will have block insurance.

And if no go send a solicitors letter to both.

Block insurance to cover a tenants laptop?? Not in a million.

L1011 · 21-02-2019 6:08pm

Block insurance would have an excess much higher than a laptop. Solicitors letter would be a further waste of money, *two* solicitors letters and you've bought a new laptop

4ensic15 · 21-02-2019 8:33pm

seamus wrote: »

I know someone who's recently been stiffed by a builder to the tune of ten grand. He managed to get a solicitor to give him a free consultation to discuss his options. The solicitor laid out the reality of how much it would actually cost to recover that ten grand through court (6-10 grand). Then asked if they had looked up the address of the builder on Google street view. They had; a council estate.

"And does his house look like it belongs to someone who has 20 grand to spare?"

.

People in council houses often have loads of money. They don't waste their money on mortgage payments or the maintenance of a property.

coylemj · 23-02-2019 2:03am

4ensic15 wrote: »

People in council houses often have loads of money. They don't waste their money on mortgage payments or the maintenance of a property.

But they typically have no assets that the sheriff can seize in lieu of a judgement.

sheroman01 · 23-02-2019 2:50am

Landlord contacted their insurance, supposedly, and as expected, not covered. Have yet to meet the tenant above. Will do it over the weekend and see how it goes, and see if he got permission to do the works himself. I think either way, whether he got permission or not, won't help me much.

sheroman01 · 23-02-2019 3:04am

seamus wrote: »

The property which is the source of a leak or a fire is not generally liable for the cost of damages suffered by other properties. Everyone takes care of their own damage. Standard practice.

The only time the source is liable is if it can be shown that they caused it through negligence.

In this case the LL would be liable if he had authorised the works. Since the tenant undertook these works without authorisation, he is personally liable for the damages that result from those works.

Just to clarify, the tenant installed the new kitchen himself. Landlord did not seem phased by this at all and said "he's a builder himself and is good at doing jobs around the house". However when I asked about the leak, she got a different builder in to check it (so the tenant is not the official go to apartment builder).

IF the landlord did authorise the tenant to do the works, does that help my case in any way?

23-02-2019 3:47am

Spook_ie wrote: »

The LL of the leaking property is surely responsible for damage to other apartments, I would think this would extend to contents.

sheroman01 wrote: »

Just to clarify, the tenant installed the new kitchen himself. Landlord did not seem phased by this at all and said "he's a builder himself and is good at doing jobs around the house". However when I asked about the leak, she got a different builder in to check it (so the tenant is not the official go to apartment builder).

IF the landlord did authorise the tenant to do the works, does that help my case in any way?

Well, that might require a civil case, you'd wonder why the landlord would give permission, ie payment in lieu? if the landlord gave permission it would probably still be the tenant liable, although the landlord may have some liability if he agreed to it, if the landlord didnt agree to it, you'd wonder why the tenant would do it at all? maybe the landlord refused to do improvements and the tenant went off on their own, in which case you'd think the landlord would be trying to cover themselves by stating they never gave permission.
As an example, I was asked by someone I knew if Id look at their apartment to figure out what was wrong with the low water pressure, I just had a look to try see what it was and got them a few quotes, although Ive done plumbing jobs in my own house previously (I replaced a number of rads and some other things), I did not offer my experience to do any work for them on the basis that if anything happened such as a leak, it could affect them and other properties and I was not insured to carry out such work in an apartment block and it could cost me in the long run.
I guess most people dont think like that, you could end up chasing the tenant and get nowhere as someone suggested.

4ensic15 · 23-02-2019 10:31am

coylemj wrote: »

The OP has no contents insurance and I can't see how the landlord could be held liable. It's been suggested that the OP sue the plumber or kitchen fitter but can he do that when he had no contract with them?.

The o/p can sue the plumber or kitchen fitter in negligence. He does not need to have a contract in order to sue in negligence.

Tenant caused a leak in the apartment, causing water damage to some of my belongings

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