Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

Paul Smeenus · 08-12-2020 11:05am

Anyway, my Patented Bonus-Point Winning Team Selection for Saturday:

1) EOS
2) Herring
3) Moore
4) Carter
5) AOC
6) Rea
7) Reidy
8) Coetzee
9) Cooney
10) Madigan
11) Stockdale
12) McCloskey
13) Hume
14) Gilroy
15) Lowry

16) McGrath
17) Andrew
18) O'Toole
19) DOC
20) Rea Jr
21) Timoney
22) Mathewson
23) Faddes

That's a 6/2 spilt, which I think we went with before?

Tough on Andrew. To be honest, if he started, with Herring springing as super-sub, I'd have no issue. We need maturity and leadership in the last twenty minutes of the game - before we had Mathewson and Madigan, a lack of quality from the bench is what did for us in games like the Leinster European QF.

O'Toole may not be fit, in which case Milasinovich is on the bench.

I have Faddes on the bench because of his versatility and, to be honest, his discipline concerns me. He's currently on better form than Gilroy, but Gilroy isn't a yellow card magnet.

Murphy I've lost faith in. Would be perfectly happy to see Jones in there for Timoney or ReaJea. Or even McCann.

Paul Smeenus · 08-12-2020 11:06am

Hume is in instead of Moore because he has more experience defending that 13 channel.

launish116 · 08-12-2020 12:07pm

Pretty much agree bar minor few changes

1) EOS McGrath ain’t overly fit rather he start and burn out
2) Herring Andrew starts with Herring on early second half
3) Moore
4) Carter
5) AOC
6) Rea
7) Reidy
8) Coetzee
9) Cooney
10) Madigan
11) Stockdale
12) McCloskey
13) Hume
14) Gilroy
15) Lowry

16) McGrath EOS add impact and mobility
17) Andrew Herring add impact
18) O'Toole Milasinovichs ballast,save O’Toole for next game
19) DOC
20) Rea Jr Murphy ain’t playing best, but big game experience
21) Timoney Jones, think he offers more
22) Mathewson
23) Faddes

Tend to agree, 6/2 split is a must though risky. Huge Toulouse pack and lack of senior 2nd row cover. Lowry covers 10 and fades covers centre/wing. Think forwards need to be told to leave everything out there first half then bring on bench early.

bilston · 08-12-2020 12:16pm

launish116 wrote: »

Dwayne Peel heading to Cardiff, end of the season!

https://www.ulsterrugby.com/2020/12/peel-to-join-cardiff-blues-at-end-of-the-season/

Good luck to him...makes sense for him to go back to Wales. Be interesting to see how we replace him.

bilston · 08-12-2020 12:19pm

I'd start Faddes over Gilroy and I'd probably go for a traditional 5/3 sit on the bench with Moore in there, or if we do 6/2, I'd still have Moore there with no 10 on the bench as Lowry can cover that and Faddes can cover 15.

Paul Smeenus · 08-12-2020 1:02pm

launish116 wrote: »

Pretty much agree bar minor few changes

1) EOS McGrath ain’t overly fit rather he start and burn out
2) Herring Andrew starts with Herring on early second half
3) Moore
4) Carter
5) AOC
6) Rea
7) Reidy
8) Coetzee
9) Cooney
10) Madigan
11) Stockdale
12) McCloskey
13) Hume
14) Gilroy
15) Lowry

16) McGrath EOS add impact and mobility
17) Andrew Herring add impact
18) O'Toole Milasinovichs ballast,save O’Toole for next game
19) DOC
20) Rea Jr Murphy ain’t playing best, but big game experience
21) Timoney Jones, think he offers more
22) Mathewson
23) Faddes

Tend to agree, 6/2 split is a must though risky. Huge Toulouse pack and lack of senior 2nd row cover. Lowry covers 10 and fades covers centre/wing. Think forwards need to be told to leave everything out there first half then bring on bench early.

I get your logic everywhere - the only thing I'd quibble with is Murphy. He's just not performing.

launish116 · 08-12-2020 1:28pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I get your logic everywhere - the only thing I'd quibble with is Murphy. He's just not performing.

Murphy has literally fallen of a cliff, last week was dire! Just think he offers a little more, if even some smarts, albeit not a lot more presently.

Think I’m more excited to hear about the A team now.

ionadnapokot · 08-12-2020 3:16pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Before McFarland came along, there had been a few questions asked about how good Peel really was. Once the forwards started to improve, we saw what he was bringing.

Good coach, great fella, wish him all the best and hopefully he finishes having won some silverware...?

Would love to get an absolutely top-flight attack coach in now.

With so many young backs coming through at Ulster it will be particularly crucial for their development.

I wonder would Jason O'Halloran (ex Glasgow) be a good choice?
He's coaching in Japan now

launish116 · 09-12-2020 11:03am

Telegraph thinks some rejigging with Payne or Soper potentially. Or even a return of Doak, he wasn’t a great head coach, but can’t fault his attack play.

Hopefully Dan has the final say and gets who he wants.

A lot of fans pushing Pienarr to return, would love him to come and help with academy not straight into seniors.

Paul Smeenus · 09-12-2020 12:03pm

launish116 wrote: »

Telegraph thinks some rejigging with Payne or Soper potentially. Or even a return of Doak, he wasn’t a great head coach, but can’t fault his attack play.

Hopefully Dan has the final say and gets who he wants.

A lot of fans pushing Pienarr to return, would love him to come and help with academy not straight into seniors.

Pienaar is a mighty Ulsterman and I love him, but I don't want an untested coach learning his trade at Ulster, given we are in a strong place with our playing squad at the moment. I want top-flight coaches getting us over the line for silverware.

I will never get this facile assumption that a great player will make a great coach. It has proven to demonstrably false with POC, no matter the hero-worship that surrounds him, and I have zero reason to imagine Pienaar will be some genius-level coach. It has worked out for us with Payne, and I'd say we shouldn't ride our luck any more.

Ability ≠ knowledge ≠ ability to teach

launish116 · 09-12-2020 12:44pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Pienaar is a mighty Ulsterman and I love him, but I don't want an untested coach learning his trade at Ulster, given we are in a strong place with our playing squad at the moment. I want top-flight coaches getting us over the line for silverware.

I will never get this facile assumption that a great player will make a great coach. It has proven to demonstrably false with POC, no matter the hero-worship that surrounds him, and I have zero reason to imagine Pienaar will be some genius-level coach. It has worked out for us with Payne, and I'd say we shouldn't ride our luck any more.

Ability ≠ knowledge ≠ ability to teach

Definitely think the academy be a start for him, saying that looking at how many coaches we have had who played 9, bit of a disgrace no real scrum half talent has come through before now.

Hopefully Dan has someone lined up. Seemed a bit odd to announce Peels departure just before Euro match.

Paul Smeenus · 09-12-2020 2:37pm

Imagine we'll be looking for a new major sponsor soon, the way things are going, and back to playing at Ravenhill.

mfceiling · 09-12-2020 3:12pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Imagine we'll be looking for a new major sponsor soon, the way things are going, and back to playing at Ravenhill.

We never stopped playing at Ravenhill Paul!!

Paul Smeenus · 09-12-2020 3:33pm

mfceiling wrote: »

We never stopped playing at Ravenhill Paul!!

TRUFAX.

But I wonder if they'll have the change back the signs to the stadium soon...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-inquiry-insulation-firm-kingspan-b1768224.html

Utah_Saint · 09-12-2020 3:46pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

TRUFAX.

But I wonder if they'll have the change back the signs to the stadium soon...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-inquiry-insulation-firm-kingspan-b1768224.html

Seen that recently. Not a good look.

however we are tied into a 10 year contract with them....until 2024.

Paul Smeenus · 09-12-2020 4:41pm

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Seen that recently. Not a good look.

however we are tied into a 10 year contract with them....until 2024.

I'm sure they'd have clauses that allow them to get out if there's a storm of bad PR.

launish116 · 09-12-2020 4:56pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I'm sure they'd have clauses that allow them to get out if there's a storm of bad PR.

Possibly, but money talks, who would jump in and take over? Can’t imagine to many firms in this current climate rushing to sponsor teams.

Utah_Saint · 09-12-2020 7:23pm

launish116 wrote: »

Possibly, but money talks, who would jump in and take over? Can’t imagine to many firms in this current climate rushing to sponsor teams.

Had to go googling but found that the 10year deal is worth £5mil

so £500k per year (depending how it is paid)

Couldn't find any figures for comparison i.e. Musgrave Park, Welford Road or Sale Sharks.

Burkie1203 · 09-12-2020 10:59pm

launish116 wrote: »

Possibly, but money talks, who would jump in and take over? Can’t imagine to many firms in this current climate rushing to sponsor teams.

Rory McIlroy Park

launish116 · 10-12-2020 12:57pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Rory McIlroy Park

Could write it off as charity.

bilston · 10-12-2020 1:03pm

I'm sure Paul will copy and paste shortly...

But Lowry @15
Stockdale and Faddes on the wings
Hume at 13
Madigan at 10
Moore and Gilroy benching

Reidy and Murphy both start

Rest as expected

launish116 · 10-12-2020 1:07pm

Ulster team to play Toulouse, Heineken Champions Cup Round 1, Friday 11 December 2020 at Kingspan Stadium, kick-off 8pm, live on BT Sport / beIN Sport:

(15-9) Michael Lowry, Matt Faddes, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Ian Madigan, John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Marty Moore, Alan O’Connor, Sam Carter (Capt.), Sean Reidy, Jordi Murphy, Marcell Coetzee.

Replacements: John Andrew, Andrew Warwick, Tom O’Toole, David O’Connor, Matty Rea, Alby Mathewson, Stewart Moore, Craig Gilroy.

awec · 10-12-2020 1:10pm

No 10 on the bench, so must be Lowry covering.

bilston · 10-12-2020 1:12pm

awec wrote: »

No 10 on the bench, so must be Lowry covering.

Yep...all bases are covered

Matthewson covers 9

Lowry covers 10

Stockdale, Faddes and Gilroy can cover full back

Gilroy covers wing

Moore and Faddes cover centre

launish116 · 10-12-2020 1:15pm

Toulouse’s huge pack and a 6/2 split gonna be a route one game.

Our loose head depth is dire...

awec · 10-12-2020 1:22pm

Has Warwick been playing at all recently?

Paul Smeenus · 10-12-2020 1:25pm

If ever there was a time for Coetzee to earn his corn, it's not scoring four tries against Zebre, it's tomorrow.

We know who we're missing, and what they would have brought.

It's a shame there's only 500 fans allowed in - a full house would have been a bit of a leveller.

SUFTUM

launish116 · 10-12-2020 1:26pm

awec wrote: »

Has Warwick been playing at all recently?

Played his first game since 2019 last week, in fairness he went ok considering. But completely different game this week.

bilston · 10-12-2020 1:28pm

launish116 wrote: »

Played his first game since 2019 last week, in fairness he went ok considering. But completely different game this week.

He can scrummage ok, doesn't do much else though

bilston · 10-12-2020 1:30pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

If ever there was a time for Coetzee to earn his corn, it's not scoring four tries against Zebre, it's tomorrow.

We know who we're missing, and what they would have brought.

It's a shame there's only 500 fans allowed in - a full house would have been a bit of a leveller.

SUFTUM

Haven't seen the Toulouse team...but Im wondering whether this is the year the French teams really dominate in Europe. No hostile crowds at away grounds will help them a lot.

I think Ulster could find it tough tomorrow night to be honest.

Paul Smeenus · 10-12-2020 1:31pm

Ramos at 10, Ntamack at 12 For Toulouse. I'd say they want to play some rugby.

Paul Smeenus · 10-12-2020 2:39pm

https://twitter.com/StadeToulousain/status/1337004201579319299

Former Former Former · 10-12-2020 3:06pm

Is Jack McGrath injured? He can't have fallen that far back, surely?

launish116 · 10-12-2020 3:17pm

Former Former Former wrote: »

Is Jack McGrath injured? He can't have fallen that far back, surely?

Really haven’t got any continuity out of him, if we hadn’t EOS we’d truely be fecked.

Paul Smeenus · 10-12-2020 3:17pm

Former Former Former wrote: »

Is Jack McGrath injured? He can't have fallen that far back, surely?

Injured.

Although I do wonder if there's concern about O'Toole's fitness - I think Warwick is ambipropsterous? As a pure LH, surely McCall is ahead of Warwick?

launish116 · 10-12-2020 3:42pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Injured.

Although I do wonder if there's concern about O'Toole's fitness - I think Warwick is ambipropsterous? As a pure LH, surely McCall is ahead of Warwick?

I’m thinking O’Toole is there for his mobility and playing to a game plan. Hoping to see a lot more of Milasovich over Xmas.

Paul Smeenus · 11-12-2020 12:27pm

GAME DAY LET'S SMACK SOME FRENCH BOTTOMS

launish116 · 11-12-2020 12:36pm

Murphy has been withdrawn and Jones on bench. Rea snr to start.

Paul Smeenus · 11-12-2020 12:41pm

launish116 wrote: »

Murphy has been withdrawn and Jones on bench. Rea snr to start.

Feel bad for Murph, but don't feel the team will suffer unduly.

launish116 · 11-12-2020 2:05pm

Ulster ‘A’ team to play Munster ‘A’ at Kingspan Stadium, Saturday 12 December, 4.30pm:

(15-9) Ethan McIlroy, Conor Rankin, Ben Moxham, Hayden Hyde, Aaron Sexton, Bill Johnston, Lewis Finlay;

(1-8) Callum Reid, Adam McBurney, Ross Kane, Cormac Izuchukwu, Conor McMenamin, David McCann (Capt.), Marcus Rea, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: James McCormick, Kyle McCall, Gareth Milasinovich, Harry Sheridan, George Saunderson, Nathan Doak, Bruce Houston, Bradley Roberts.

Updates on Twitter

Paul Smeenus · 11-12-2020 2:23pm

Thoughts:

Encouraged to see McCann captaining.
Disappointing not to see Allison but this is obviously, for the most part, a "next cab off the rank" selection. The only exceptions I can see being Reid starting ahead of McCall and no Shanahan. And that's because we need Reid, one of the second rows and one of the scrumhalves to start jostling for games in the Pro14.
Glad to see Bradley Roberts there. Fair play.

Utah_Saint · 11-12-2020 2:46pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Thoughts:

Encouraged to see McCann captaining.
Disappointing not to see Allison but this is obviously, for the most part, a "next cab off the rank" selection. The only exceptions I can see being Reid starting ahead of McCall and no Shanahan. And that's because we need Reid, one of the second rows and one of the scrumhalves to start jostling for games in the Pro14.
Glad to see Bradley Roberts there. Fair play.

Do you know much about how the seconds rows or scumhalf is rated?

bilston · 11-12-2020 2:50pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Thoughts:

Encouraged to see McCann captaining.
Disappointing not to see Allison but this is obviously, for the most part, a "next cab off the rank" selection. The only exceptions I can see being Reid starting ahead of McCall and no Shanahan. And that's because we need Reid, one of the second rows and one of the scrumhalves to start jostling for games in the Pro14.
Glad to see Bradley Roberts there. Fair play.

Maybe Allison is injured, but I wonder if he isn't as highly rated as we think.

There are a couple of interesting names on the bench...

George Saunderson - I thought he was a prop? It looks like he is back row cover. Maybe I'm confusing him with someone else.

Harry Sheridan? Never heard of him. Anyone know anything?

bilston · 11-12-2020 2:52pm

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Do you know much about how the seconds rows or scumhalf is rated?

Both scrum halfs are well thought of.

Lewis Finlay was the Ireland 20s 9 last season, and was MOTM in one of the games

I haven't seen Nathan Doak play but he seems to be very highly rated. Played 9 for Ulster A when still at school last season.

Not sure about the second rows. Izuchukwu came up for Leinster during the summer.

bayern · 11-12-2020 2:54pm

bilston wrote: »

Maybe Allison is injured, but I wonder if he isn't as highly rated as we think.

There are a couple of interesting names on the bench...

George Saunderson - I thought he was a prop? It looks like he is back row cover. Maybe I'm confusing him with someone else.

Harry Sheridan? Never heard of him. Anyone know anything?

Sheridan is a u20 lock/blindside.. plays for trinity but came through Sullivan I think..

Saunderson is a prop.

Paul Smeenus · 11-12-2020 4:11pm

Finlay was very good for the U20s - snappy, accurate delivery, good trailing support lines, fast.

Doak is a Big Deal, and was heralded as such a few years back - whether as a nine or ten, no-one seems to be 100% sure.

Izzy was the 7s player that had been playing second row in Scotland.

Saunderson's highly rated as well.

launish116 · 11-12-2020 7:48pm

bilston wrote: »

Maybe Allison is injured, but I wonder if he isn't as highly rated as we think.

Really hope that isn’t the case! Have high hopes of a McCann, Allison, Rea jnr back row someday! He does seem to feature in the senior training pics quite abit.

launish116 · 11-12-2020 7:57pm

Toulouse are ready

Hands Like Flippers · 12-12-2020 12:07am

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Thoughts:

Encouraged to see McCann captaining.
Disappointing not to see Allison but this is obviously, for the most part, a "next cab off the rank" selection. The only exceptions I can see being Reid starting ahead of McCall and no Shanahan. And that's because we need Reid, one of the second rows and one of the scrumhalves to start jostling for games in the Pro14.
Glad to see Bradley Roberts there. Fair play.

Is that x3 hookers? Mcb, mcc, br?

bayern · 12-12-2020 8:14am

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

Is that x3 hookers? Mcb, mcc, br?

Yes

Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

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