Freemasons: Evil secret society or misunderstood nice guys...

ISAW · 13-04-2010 2:58am

churchview wrote: »

Crazy stuff! I particularly love the guy who thinks that all conspiracies are criminal - I must have missed that lecture in law school:D. I'm amazed and somewhat horrified that some people seem to believe all the lizard people illuminati nonsense.

It is a typo the word "NOT" should be before criminal. If you read the following sentence you would have noticed i referred to "civil conspiracies" and "collusion". But you seem to have stopped before that sentence.

I am not a conspiracy theorist in the illumaniti or "lizaerd people" sense. I am in the FAS Board or Bank Board sense. People should know if if anyone deciding on public money has a vested interest. I wont comment anymore until I locate the masonic literature in trinity (which DOES have UK copyright material as well) or find it isn't there.

Irlandese · 14-04-2010 11:18pm

My question? A technical curiosity, about learning and communication through blogs, that interests me professionaly, if I may ask? :
In your opinion, has it served any useful purpose to expend all the energy you obviously have, in responding to all those often bitter little sections that he painstakingly split and cut up from your own posts, trying to find some chinks perhaps? I mean, did it give you any previously unavailable opportunities to get across some useful information that you would not have been able to get across with your own interesting posts?

Irlandese · 14-04-2010 11:21pm

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

Just a quick question for the Masons on here:

Do you have to deal with accusations/attacks etc the like of what we have seen on this thread on a regular basis or is it just confined to internet forums?

I would like to join with this question and ask for personal comments about the kind of re-actions that they have met here, from the positive to the downright churlish, as with very recent posts.

Absolam · 21-04-2010 1:29pm

Irlandese wrote: »

Hi Again, Absolam, I have a question,
In your opinion, has it served any useful purpose to expend all the energy you obviously have, in responding to all those often bitter little sections that he painstakingly split and cut up from your own posts, trying to find some chinks perhaps? I mean, did it give you any previously unavailable opportunities to get across some useful information that you would not have been able to get across with your own interesting posts?

I think the thread as a whole is a great idea; it has given people an opportunity to ask and answer questions that they wouldn't have had otherwise. Not many people actually know Masons so they don't get to discuss what has been discussed on the thread even though it might interest them. Personally I enjoy discussing my hobby with people, and the discussion has meant I have broadened my own research and understanding of the Craft. Previously I was interested in understanding the history and esotericism of Freemasonry, but was never bothered with the whole conspiracy theory nonsense, so I guess I've gained some insights there. I think all discussion adds something to our understanding, so posting remains worthwhile, even if it means working hard to counter some bizarre perspectives!

katox · 08-05-2010 5:08pm

Hi

Great thread to read! I am after spending 2 hours almost reading this! its been very interesting..my reason for finding this, was that I found out yesterday that my dad is a member of the FM's ..1st reaction was like ...WTF..but he explained it to me & im fine about it really but quite entrigued to more know about it, coz obviously he could not tell me everything....:D
He has been a member for 30 years, cant belive it never dawned on me..all these 'black tie' events..:P

Cheers to all FM's for sharing..:P:):D

steelcityblues · 08-05-2010 5:17pm

Many organisations or groups have their 'useful idiots' so to speak -generally decent folk but part of a system where the higher echelons in private look down on them and wield the real power, but need them to continue prospering.

Same as it ever was....

DeVore · 09-05-2010 1:21pm

How do they prosper from the membership?

DeV.

ISAW · 12-05-2010 9:34am

DeVore wrote: »

How do they prosper from the membership?

DeV.

Thayts coverid in the thread Dev. Im still waiting to get my hands on the membership book form the 1980s on Hammersmith lodge. But it is clear that ont one but TWICE the Police was reformed in Scotland Yard due to masonic influence. The dinners etc. of members and how they got kickbacks from pornographers is also well documented. I am not suggesting that the masons at a national level planned to get into the pornography business but the main man ivnolved was a senior mason master of Hammersmith lodge ( something which apparently takes at least seven years to achieve even after completing three degrees when many masons don't even get past first degree ) and used the Lodge for contacts. All the centaral police men were Masons.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/masons-linked-to-bullion-heist-1315134.html

As regards accusations above of lying - I didn't lie. I didn't intend to come back and after 3 years I changed my mind. Where is the evidence of any other so called "lies as usual" by me and what has that to do with this discussion?

r3nu4l · 12-05-2010 9:35am

Irlandese wrote: »

Hi Again, Absolam, I have a question, but first, I want to compliment you on your obvious patience and unfailing good manners in the face of a constant onslaught of churlish, aggressive dogging, from that other poster i mentioned earlier. I really dislike uncouth behaviour. Arguament and debate can be great learning opportunities. I really think he should have had the decency to disappear, from the site, as he promised, back in may 2007, but people like that have strange needs and a deep well of disturbed aggression to feed. Lets hope he slinks back to christianity where he seems to have a comfortable berth, with fellow travelleres.

Attack the post NOT the poster! Any more of this and you may find yourself taking a break from the site for a while.

Absolam · 13-05-2010 1:23pm

ISAW wrote: »

Thayts coverid in the thread Dev. Im still waiting to get my hands on the membership book form the 1980s on Hammersmith lodge. But it is clear that ont one but TWICE the Police was reformed in Scotland Yard due to masonic influence. The dinners etc. of members and how they got kickbacks from pornographers is also well documented. I am not suggesting that the masons at a national level planned to get into the pornography business but the main man ivnolved was a senior mason master of Hammersmith lodge ( something which apparently takes at least seven years to achieve even after completing three degrees when many masons don't even get past first degree ) and used the Lodge for contacts. All the centaral police men were Masons.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/masons-linked-to-bullion-heist-1315134.html

As regards accusations above of lying - I didn't lie. I didn't intend to come back and after 3 years I changed my mind. Where is the evidence of any other so called "lies as usual" by me and what has that to do with this discussion?

Again with the same wild accusations. As previously discussed (ad nauseum) in the thread, the police depts in the UK weren't reformed due to masonic influence; they were reformed due to criminal influence. Some of the criminals had masonic connections, as did some of the police investigating them. As did a lot of people not involved in the cases. This was a matter of criminality, not Freemasonry. And how 'the higher echelons prosper from the membership' isn't covered in the thread, because it's a ridiculous statement.

Fuinseog · 23-05-2010 10:30pm

the masons give generously to charities and fund the education of deprived kids. unlike other groups they do not make a hulabulu about it.

Absolam · 01-06-2010 2:00pm

For those Freemasons who post here, and are interested, a new Irish Masonic forum has just been launched here: http://www.masonic.ie/forum/index.php

not to take away from the discussions we have on boards.ie, but maybe to add an extra dimension. Or provide somewhere we can conspire to take over the world in peace

keithclancy · 01-06-2010 2:25pm

I hear Freemason I think this:

getz · 04-06-2010 8:56am

there is a secret [joke] builderberger meeting in spain between june the 3rd and the 6th,it will be interesting to note how many of the new uk goverments ministers turn up in spain durung that time,on tax payers money no doubt

Irlandese · 04-06-2010 9:59am

Absolam wrote: »

Again with the same wild accusations. As previously discussed (ad nauseum) in the thread, the police depts in the UK weren't reformed due to masonic influence; they were reformed due to criminal influence. Some of the criminals had masonic connections, as did some of the police investigating them. As did a lot of people not involved in the cases. This was a matter of criminality, not Freemasonry. And how 'the higher echelons prosper from the membership' isn't covered in the thread, because it's a ridiculous statement.

Wat to go, WTG? Absalom.
It does me good to see such a calm, polite response to that kind of stuff, and early in the day too. Sort of sets the tone, so to speak. Keep it up !

rhonda15 · 04-07-2010 7:41pm

I met a guy last week whose father is the head of the freemasons in Dublin,
in fact his father is the top Freemason in the country.

Now I would be quite friendly with this particular guy - we happen to be both doing the same 17 week long course, he's a very genuine down to earth person from a very affluent family. Well when I heard his father was a top Freemason - I didn't quite know how to react and I think I was a little rude in fact and we ended the converstion by him saying "I myself am not a Freemason - so don't judge me by my father" (he is also fully convinced it is a very benign organisation), and I said something like "Well I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I'm judging you because of your father - but I have to admit I don't like them (the Freemasons)."

Now things are a little tense between us and I kinda feel like I owe him an apology for how I reacted. After all I have no first hand knowledge of the org.

Having said that my understanding is that at the lower levels (I would still consider being a top Freemason in Ireland fairly low level) the organisation passes itself off as being a mainly chartiable org. however at the very top levels some say they worship Lucifer. Who the heck knows - still though I think I'll apologise to the guy.

As other people have pointed out if they have nothing to hide why are thye still a secret org?

I don't like them and as they say there is no smoke without fire.

Owen · 04-07-2010 7:48pm

rhonda15 wrote: »

Having said that my understanding is that at the lower levels (I would still consider being a top Freemason in Ireland fairly low level) the organisation passes itself off as being a mainly chartiable org. however at the very top levels some say they worship Lucifer. Who the heck knows - still though I think I'll apologise to the guy.

Please stop lying. There are many masons on this thread, and in fact many senior masons on this thread. Myself included. There is no devil worshipping, or goat raping. If you'd bother to read through the thread, you'd know that.

It's pretty insulting to have someone revive this thread every other month with "I know someone who knows someone and they're evil" or other nonsense. We're out there literally raising millions for charity and medical research, and having a good time while we're at it. People like you are confusing the Masons with the conspiracy theory of the illuminati. There's a conspiracy theory forum for such nonsense.

As other people have pointed out if they have nothing to hide why are thye still a secret org?

We're not a secret organisation. Anyone can apply to join, our meeting times and dates are published on the internet. The only secrets we have are our ways of identifying someone who's a real mason, and someone who's not.

rhonda15 · 04-07-2010 9:50pm

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Please stop lying. There are many masons on this thread, and in fact many senior masons on this thread. Myself included. There is no devil worshipping, or goat raping. If you'd bother to read through the thread, you'd know that.

It's pretty insulting to have someone revive this thread every other month with "I know someone who knows someone and they're evil" or other nonsense. We're out there literally raising millions for charity and medical research, and having a good time while we're at it. People like you are confusing the Masons with the conspiracy theory of the illuminati. There's a conspiracy theory forum for such nonsense.

We're not a secret organisation. Anyone can apply to join, our meeting times and dates are published on the internet. The only secrets we have are our ways of identifying someone who's a real mason, and someone who's not.

A few questions?

why are Catholics forbidden to join?

Exactly what charities do they support?

I've looked at the website for the Irish Freemasons here
http://www.irish-freemasons.org/

(not exactly a source of indepth info :rolleyes:)

Owen · 04-07-2010 9:54pm

rhonda15 wrote: »

why are Catholics forbidden to join?

There are thousands of Catholic members! Any man, over 21, who believes in a supreme being of any sort can join. Whether that's God, Jehovah, Vishnu, or the Roswell Aliens seeding life on Earth.

rhonda15 wrote: »

Exactly what charities do they support?

Hundreds across the globe. In Ireland? The Samaritans who last year received quite a sum of money from us. The Laura Lynn Hospice. Cochlear Impant medical research in Belfast which has helped deaf people around the world to hear. Money has been sent to Haiti, and is regularly sent to needy charities!

All of these questions have already been answered at length. Please read back through the thread.

macshadow · 04-07-2010 10:48pm

Any man, over 21, who believes in a supreme being of any sort can join.

Which supreme being do you believe in?

Owen · 04-07-2010 10:49pm

If you're question is directed at me, that's my own personal business.

macshadow · 04-07-2010 11:03pm

PaintDoctor wrote: »

If you're question is directed at me, that's my own personal business.

That's just as well, at least nobody can pick holes in it then:D

macshadow · 04-07-2010 11:09pm

DeVore wrote: »

How do they prosper from the membership?

DeV.

If you're a card carrying member of a political party do you think you would be allowed to witness the exchange of brown envelopes.

Absolam · 05-07-2010 9:57pm

rhonda15 wrote: »

A few questions?

why are Catholics forbidden to join?

Exactly what charities do they support?

I've looked at the website for the Irish Freemasons here
http://www.irish-freemasons.org/

(not exactly a source of indepth info :rolleyes:)

Actually, the Catholic Church does not approve of Catholics being Freemasons, as Masonry is considered by the Church to be Deistic, and does not place the Christian belief above other beliefs. However Freemasonry accepts Catholics, and I know many Catholics in my own lodge.

As for charities, each lodge generally supports such external charities as its' members want; my own lodge has raised funds for Laura Lynn House, the Samaritans, Downs Syndrome Ireland, the Salvation Army, the Irish Cancer Society, and others as any member may propose.

Yes.. the website isn't very good. But we're working on it

macshadow wrote: »

If you're a card carrying member of a political party do you think you would be allowed to witness the exchange of brown envelopes.

LOL! So.. the hundreds of thousands of members over hundreds of years have never figured out what's going on at the 'top', but the internet conspiracy theorists who've never set foot in a lodge room have figured it all out? Love it!

Oh... and if anyone is interested one of the brethren is running tours of the Masonic Hall in Molesworth St all through the summer, lunchtimes on weekdays. So if you fancy some 'investigation' of the secret society, it's all open to the public, just stroll in. You might even want to join after

macshadow · 06-07-2010 12:20am

Absolam wrote: »

Actually, the Catholic Church does not approve of Catholics being Freemasons, as Masonry is considered by the Church to be Deistic, and does not place the Christian belief above other beliefs. However Freemasonry accepts Catholics, and I know many Catholics in my own lodge.

As for charities, each lodge generally supports such external charities as its' members want; my own lodge has raised funds for Laura Lynn House, the Samaritans, Downs Syndrome Ireland, the Salvation Army, the Irish Cancer Society, and others as any member may propose.

Yes.. the website isn't very good. But we're working on it

LOL! So.. the hundreds of thousands of members over hundreds of years have never figured out what's going on at the 'top', but the internet conspiracy theorists who've never set foot in a lodge room have figured it all out? Love it!

Oh... and if anyone is interested one of the brethren is running tours of the Masonic Hall in Molesworth St all through the summer, lunchtimes on weekdays. So if you fancy some 'investigation' of the secret society, it's all open to the public, just stroll in. You might even want to join after

Was King James a Freemason?

Wolfe Tone · 06-07-2010 12:22am

I asked my Priest recently and the Catholic church looks down on it. He recommended the Order of saint something....

Absolam · 06-07-2010 2:19pm

macshadow wrote: »

Was King James a Freemason?

Presuming you're talking about King James VI & I, it seems unlikely; he died in 1625, the first Grand Lodge was formed in 1717. There were almost certainly working Lodges of sorts in Scotland in his lifetime, but the fraternity doesn't seem to have been all that interesting to the nobility until the mid to late 1700s when it became quite fashionable.

Freemasons: Evil secret society or misunderstood nice guys...

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