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Should convicted rapists be castrated

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    ...well in all fairness - the last thing we need is a system like they have in America.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭pretty-in-pink


    not exactly the same as there- but some of the principles ,

    such as the same crime detection/fighting facilities as here so that you dont need a body, not like here where you need a body, and lots of other stuff too. even with an admital you need the body or they walk.i mean if you find them acting weird(burning stuff, doging people, hiding out etc), with the victims blood/clothing etc on them or in their cars/homes etc....but there is no body, then you cant hold them.

    and with the possibility of consecutive sentencing, here even if you are known to have killed say 5 people, you still only get 1 life sentence. its really stupid.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 bigmike


    In my view rape is as much about power, control, frustration, insecurity, a feeling of inadequacy than it is about sex. Taking away a sexual desire through castration could well create a monster of another nature. Understanding the causes of rape, and following through a programme of treatment and then learning from this programme is ideal. Failing that the bastards should be locked up for life, preferably in a cell with other frustrated blokes with huge libidoes


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 120 ✭✭test999


    I see lots of people on here saying that chemical castration, results in a monster of a different sort. I hadn't heard about that, does anyone have a link to a study proving that? Or do I get the feint whiff of sh1T?

    I suppose that choppin a rapists mickey off is a no no with the wet pants libs on this board?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    test999 wrote:
    I see lots of people on here saying that chemical castration, results in a monster of a different sort. I hadn't heard about that, does anyone have a link to a study proving that? Or do I get the feint whiff of sh1T?
    Read the other post then. You might find studys proving that point, or you mightn't, but at least everyone won't have to repeat themselves...... again.
    test999 wrote:
    I suppose that choppin a rapists mickey off is a no no with the wet pants libs on this board?
    :rolleyes: Thats insightful.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 HCOOK3


    HEY, I'M NOT TRYING TO BE A B*TCH, BUT THE FACT IS UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN RAPED YOU DON'T KNOW. I HAVE AND I WANT MORE THEN ANYTHING FOR THE LAW TO TAKE A KNIFE AND CUT IT OFF IN THE MOST PAINFUL WAY. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT RAPIST TAKE AWAY FROM THEIR VICTIMS...SO WHY SHOULD THEY KEEP THE ABILITY TO ENJOY SEX WHEN WE CAN'T! PLEASE TELL ME. EMAIL ME BACK AT [email]snip[/email]


    Mod edit to remove email address


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 HCOOK3


    Syth wrote:
    I don't think convicted rapists should be castrated. I don't think it's a good
    detterent. Look at the deterent we have now. Look at the social stigma a rapist
    has. Some say that out society encourages rape, but try going into a bar and
    proudly announcing that you are a rapist. See if you are encouraged. As for the
    revictism argument, it don't think it will work. Many have already mentioned
    that it's possibe to still sexually assault somone even if the little general
    is dead. Also should we now start cutting of the hands of thieves? Should we
    break the spines of murders to make sure they can't kill again? Should we make
    blind anyone who knocked a person donw in a car, so thay can't drive again? No.

    As for the whole 'rape is nothing to do with sex' argument, I think that is
    false. consider these 2 simple facts:
    o Men will do lots of things to have sex. Many, many men are willing to chase
    (figurativly) after women to have sex, heck, sme are even willing to pay for
    sex. Many men really wan tsex.
    o There are some men who are willing to use violence to get what they want.
    Whether it is some cash or a flash phone, there are men who are willing to use
    violence to get what they want.
    Thus it seems obvious that there will be a small amount of men who are willing to use violence to get sex, ie willing to rape.

    Also there are cases where a man and a woman are "gettin' it on", and the woman
    doesn't want it to go that far, she wants to stop. Most men would stop, a tiny
    amout wouldn't and whould then rape the woman. If the 'rape is nothing to do
    with sex' argument was true, then the man would change from thinking about sex
    just before the woman wanted to stop (actually it's probably all he can think
    about), and then suddenly, not be thinking about sex. Most of the men out there
    will tell you that that kind of switch doesn't happen.

    HEY, I'M NOT TRYING TO BE A B*TCH, BUT THE FACT IS UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN HELD DOWN WHILE SOMEONE COMPLETELY VIOLATES YOU THEN YOU DON'T KNOW. I HAVE BEEN RAPED SO I DO KNOW AND I PERSONALLY WISH THAT THE LAW WOULD SLOWLY AND PAINFULLY CUT OFF HIS PENIS. WHY SHOULD HE EVER ENJOY SEX WHEN I CAN'T. PLEASE REPLY TO ME EMAIL ME IF YOU WANT AT [email]snip[/email]

    mod edit to remove email address


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    HCOOK3 wrote:
    HEY, I'M NOT TRYING TO BE A B*TCH, BUT THE FACT IS UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN RAPED YOU DON'T KNOW...
    Firstly - take off Caps Lock.
    Secondly - while we can all sympatise with rape victims, we don't need to have been raped in order to discuss this topic. If you were to apply that kind of logic to murder - we could never find a punishment, as the victims are dead.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    HCOOK3 - you don't need to keep repeating yourself. ...and why do you want people to e-mail you?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    HCOOK3 wrote:
    I HAVE BEEN RAPED SO I DO KNOW AND I PERSONALLY WISH THAT THE LAW WOULD SLOWLY AND PAINFULLY CUT OFF HIS PENIS.

    if he'd used a broomstick would you want his household cleaning utensils mutilated also?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,446 ✭✭✭✭amp


    Meanwhile back on topic


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I didn't read this thread, just the title, and the answer is no, miscarriages happen, then what ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭pretty-in-pink


    hcook3, I can fully sympathise with you, and understand your anger, I felt the same myself.

    There are a few girls and guys who have posted here who have been raped, some by partners, some family, some strangers.

    By holding such an immense anger towards them, and wanting them to suffer as much as you, you are behaving in the same kind of way they did.

    I know its hard, but by letting them run/ruin your life you are letting them win over and over again.

    The lord will deal with all those perps who dont repent, and those that do deserve a new shot at life.

    Don't get me wrong, I wont be making freinds with the guy who did it to me, but if he truly regrets it then nothing can ever be as hard as the guilt he will put himself through.

    We do need harsher punishments, and I can see a vigilante thing happening, especially in places like Limerick. I still feel so angry at the excuses made for perps. I dont think we should excuse them, but nor should we damage their bodies. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"........live by that, and soon it will become obvious that no-one is without sin.

    Barbaric punishement will only lead to more trouble, and as those really intent on causing damage will find a way out of any situation they get caught in, then we will never be able to appropriately punish those who are so coldly evil it defies logic.What makes a person act out on the dark fantasies that nearly everyone harbours (and yes, they do, i.e. being your 16 century masters sex slave, killing your boss, being tied up and shagged for hours, punching people because your angry, setting thinngs on fire etc) is a mystery. We can speculae all we want, all that remains is that for some reason these very angry people can't stop. They lose sight of right and wrong. Its them, their ego, their rage and their plans. How can making these deeply disturbed people any angrier make things better?

    (sorry for the long post!!)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,305 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Castration wouldn't make them less pissed off. I'd say it'd be the total opposite. If they were castrated, when they were released, they'd be pretty pissed off individuals. Sure, they may not be able to f*ck, but they'll be able to create hell.
    The revenge id be most happy with is something fair. say name them.
    This happens already. And when its found out that she made it up, they're left with the tag, and the b|tch is never named.

    =====

    So testosterone is bad, hmmm? This seems to be what most of youse think. Seemingly, it has nothing with them being sick little mofo's.

    Some say snip off a dogs balls, and he doesn't shag anymore. Well, he just can't, thats all. As for humans, they'll know why they don't feel any sexual tendecies, and they'd proberly feel one of either two feelings

    a) worthlessness, and commit suicide.
    b) anger, and track down the woman, and give her hell.

    And if they were truely sick f*cks, it'd be B.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 120 ✭✭test999


    Victor wrote:
    Are you two getting off on this thread?

    No.

    And you may not like the idea of using a sword, how about using a surgical instrument? and not in a dramatic way?

    I don't believe castration creates another kind of monster, and I am aware that it won't stop specific types of rape.

    How many of you believe that rapists can be rehabilitated? I don't believe it's possible. So castration, by physical or chemical means is the first option.

    If they rape again, you have two choices, a life time in prison or the death penalty.

    Keeping people in prison is expensive, I don't want to have to pay for that, so I would offer two time rapists the lethal injection.

    I am aware that this view may be too simplistic for some of you, or you may consider this post a troll. If that's your view, I suggest you read up on rape and the efficacy of rehabilitation, and how other countries deal with rapists.

    And the name and shame idea is not going to work. These people have no shame. The damage being raped causes lasts a life time, naming the rapist for most people who have been raped wouldn't be enough.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭pretty-in-pink


    test999 wrote:
    No.
    And the name and shame idea is not going to work. These people have no shame. The damage being raped causes lasts a life time, naming the rapist for most people who have been raped wouldn't be enough.

    Yes and No, the damage doesn't go away ,especially if it was a traumatic rape, the perpees' will always get flashbacks and remember the way she/he felt at the time of the attack/attacks. So in theory the persons life is "ruined".

    However I feel that your life is not neccesarily ruined, tainted maybe, but if you are lucky then you can get over it, and have a normal life, with friends and a sexual partner, and have a family, even forgive. Now I'm not saying everyone can get over it, and I'm not saying its a good thing to happen to someone just cause it makes those who cope with the act and aftermath much stronger. Its a pardoxical situation, with the ones who pull through being a mixture of tough as nails, but fragile as a piece of cyrstal. Yes these people are more breakable on the one hand, but on the other hand they are far stronger, as they have lived through one of the most horrific experiences possible. That removes a lot of the fear, and there is nearly an acceptance of whatever their future might hold, no matter how bad - or good.

    A lot of the victims come through with more grace, dignity and the ability to move on then the people who surrond them, the people closest to a victim, once they know about the attack seem to feel guilty, and freak out - wanting to extract revenge. 90% or more of the time this is not what the victim needs. They have to deal with their pain, the pain of anyone who knows, and the same for the anger factor. Except they also get to feel guilty not only about being so wholey invaded, but alos for making their friends and family so guilty, angry, shocked and sad.

    More should be done to help out all parties, the perp, perpee ,the perpees close ones and the perps close ones. Crime affects more then the immediate perp and perpee, and anyone who can lash out so cruely at another human being is sick, and in need of help.

    I also think that seeing the perp in rehab, and having to live with everyone knowing, evryday for the rest of their lives what they did wouldd be punishment enough. Like the song goes "needle broken, and the damage done, a little part of it in everyone"

    Can you imagine having everyone know who you are, what you do/have done, all the details of your live before they meet you? Yes a fair amount of pereps are cold, callous, evil and sick. They might even thrive on having their kinsmen and countrymen being revulsed by them, but equally a lot of them are just stupid men and women who acted without thinking, who were drunk, angry, hurt, screwed up people- maybe even they too are/were perpees. To have everyone they ever met or will ever meet be disgusted by them, to have to look in the mirror knowing the gravity and sickness of their crime, to never be allowed leave the contry, to be under constant police survailence, to maybe never get married or have kids is a big price to pay, a fair price to pay.

    The U.N might go on about "criminal rights", but everyone has rights, and I think the perpee(s) of each attacker should have a hand in the punishment, as they will be relitivly calmer then those close to them, and are less likely to say "oh look, broken home, no secondary education, drug addict, let them go".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,415 ✭✭✭Optikus


    In a nutshell ..YES.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 953 ✭✭✭StRiKeR


    they should be locked up for good, if you can do it the first time, they and all they get is a few yrs, they can do it again, its all in thier head, if they do it again and get away with it, they carry on doing it till they get lock up again, then out and do it again!

    pretty much same as those sicko that sexually abuses children, read about them before, they get cought, convicted, when they out they do it again, even when they are not able to use there man hood, they are still at it, there are many of these cases around in this world!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 120 ✭✭test999


    I just got negative reputation from "Fysh"...

    From Fysh=What next, will you identify the rapist gene? Rape is an act committed by an individual. It isn't necessarily easy, but they can be re-conditioned not to do it. If they can't, I'd argue there's a mental deficiency involved at some stage.

    Is that how the reputation system works? some child who doesn't like my position on a topic so they lash out and manically click the neg rep button?

    I could point out to you Fysh, that your question about identifying the gene is supercilous and I could give you negative rep, but I'll be grown up about it (not to mention that my rep has no weight)

    Rapists cannot be reconditioned like a faulty PC, so you'd argue there is a mental deficiency...
    So, ho hum, rapists (very bad people that they are) couldn't possibly exist in a perfectly healthy way? What do you base that argument upon????????

    A huge number of multiple rapists are of perfectly sound mind.

    Fell free to post your reply here and not on my reputation, thank you.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    MrNuked wrote:
    The death penalty, and brutal physical penalties, would be strong deterrents.
    Like it is the the States? Oh no actually it doesn't work there. Hmm, lik eit is in Saudi Arabia then, they are really brutal there. Ooops, it doesn't work there either. I can't think of anywhere the death penalty or brutal punishments work as a deterrent. Could you provide me with a link to show how you know they would be deterrents?

    MrP


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 953 ✭✭✭StRiKeR


    what is a rapist gene, I never heard that it can be passed on by the genes!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 120 ✭✭test999


    For all of you posting about de-sexing or the capital punishment of rapists back it up with research.

    Web Site Visitor Comment:
    In so-called civilized societies we do not remove body parts for either punishment or rehabilitation. Not even in the case of mass murder. As Dorothy Marker has pointed out, if you de-sex a rapist, they may just find other, possibly more horrible ways and means of committing assaults.

    FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTION:
    Do you honestly think that castration would eliminate all possibilities of a repeat sex offender victimizing other people? There are endless ways to victimize that don't require the ability to have sexual intercourse.

    Our Response:
    You need to read "A Brief History of Castration", and to continue to follow this site and its links.

    Response from Victor Cheney:
    It is important to note that:
    There was ZERO (-0-) recidivism in Sturup's research and report of rapists who were castrated. To us, this speaks louder than all the feminist theories of power, control and dominance. We have laid our cards on the table! This is what you have responded to. Where is your data to substantiate your response listed above? Oh, you had better check the recent legislation in California and Georgia, and impending legislation in Maine and Texas, and a host of states who are rapidly considering castration as a proven-effective alternative treatment (and not a punishment) for repeat sex offenders, unless you have a better solution. We have had a host of so-called experts make the same claims you have in a host of cases, but none have ever been able to furnish us with "hard data" or examples of the use of foreign objects after castration.


    Feel free to do some research for an Israeli paper on chemical castration that works.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    You can't think of it? then it must not exist! DYOR! " can't think of anywhere the death penalty or brutal punishments work as a deterrent"
    The point I was making was it didn't seem to be a very good deterrent. The fact that they still have to do it would, to me, prove that it is not a very good deterrent.

    Besides, MrNuked stated that it would act as a deterrent. It is up to him to support this statement.

    Oh and you have proved yourself to be a bit of a hypocrite by trying to give me –ve rep for posting an opposing view.


    MrP


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    test999 wrote:
    I just got negative reputation from "Fysh"...

    From Fysh=What next, will you identify the rapist gene? Rape is an act committed by an individual. It isn't necessarily easy, but they can be re-conditioned not to do it. If they can't, I'd argue there's a mental deficiency involved at some stage.

    Is that how the reputation system works? some child who doesn't like my position on a topic so they lash out and manically click the neg rep button?

    I could point out to you Fysh, that your question about identifying the gene is supercilous and I could give you negative rep, but I'll be grown up about it (not to mention that my rep has no weight)

    Rapists cannot be reconditioned like a faulty PC, so you'd argue there is a mental deficiency...
    So, ho hum, rapists (very bad people that they are) couldn't possibly exist in a perfectly healthy way? What do you base that argument upon???????

    Ok, I didn't really want to get into this thread because this sort of topic always attracts some hysterical responses. However:

    before we really get into this, show me some respected research that shows that rapists irrefutably cannot be reconditioned. Then we'll talk.

    I hesitate to even ask how you can suggest that rapists can exist in "a perfectly healthy way", on the grounds that the psychological mindset required to commit rape can't reasonably be considered healthy, particularly not if there's any understanding of the repercussions and aftermath of being subjected to such an assault. However, if you want to explain it rationally go ahead. Being found to be "of sound mind" is used in court cases to prove that the rapist knew what he was doing - I don't equate that with mental health, it just means that they were aware of their actions. At this point, therapy of some sort would be needed as well as a prison sentence if we were genuinely interested in preventing crime reoccurence through rehabilitation. Removing the means to carry out the crime is a poor substitute for removing the drive to commit it in the first place, imo.

    And, for the record, I sent you negative rep because I happen to strongly disagree with your post and think that you aren't exactly aiding the cause of either preventing future rapes or protecting the interests of past victims and helping them rebuild their lives with your statements and suggestions. Not sure if you've noticed the many threads about reputation out there, but that's how a lot of people use it. But here I am now, doomed to lose time to a thread and discussion I don't see either of us realistically getting anything much out of....


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    you can rest assured that any potential rapists on boards are getting a good laugh out of it


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭elivsvonchiaing


    Mordeth wrote:
    you can rest assured that any potential rapists on boards are getting a good laugh out of it
    I am now inclined to think this thread should have included the sub-title "clinical analysis only". This thread will make anyone with an emmotional link with rape incandescent with rage by default imho.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭pretty-in-pink


    I think that this thread had been hijacked by people who meerly wish to have a slagging match. Which is surely not the point of the thread at all. If people want to fight, I motion that they keep it to P.Ms or just use another thread and get banned for it.


    Grow up already :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 120 ✭✭test999


    Fysh wrote:
    Ok, I didn't really want to get into this thread because this sort of topic always attracts some hysterical responses. However:

    before we really get into this, show me some respected research that shows that rapists irrefutably cannot be reconditioned. Then we'll talk.

    I hesitate to even ask how you can suggest that rapists can exist in "a perfectly healthy way", on the grounds that the psychological mindset required to commit rape can't reasonably be considered healthy, particularly not if there's any understanding of the repercussions and aftermath of being subjected to such an assault. However, if you want to explain it rationally go ahead. Being found to be "of sound mind" is used in court cases to prove that the rapist knew what he was doing - I don't equate that with mental health, it just means that they were aware of their actions. At this point, therapy of some sort would be needed as well as a prison sentence if we were genuinely interested in preventing crime reoccurence through rehabilitation. Removing the means to carry out the crime is a poor substitute for removing the drive to commit it in the first place, imo.

    And, for the record, I sent you negative rep because I happen to strongly disagree with your post and think that you aren't exactly aiding the cause of either preventing future rapes or protecting the interests of past victims and helping them rebuild their lives with your statements and suggestions. Not sure if you've noticed the many threads about reputation out there, but that's how a lot of people use it. But here I am now, doomed to lose time to a thread and discussion I don't see either of us realistically getting anything much out of....


    Dream on if you think I'm reading that pile of...


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    test999 wrote:
    Dream on if you think I'm reading that pile of...

    So much for any actual discussion. Silly me...

    Mordeth - I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at. Care to elaborate at all?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Silent Grape


    this thread is dead, and upsetting. nobody can sau for definite that a rapist cant change, this thread is full of generalisations with little to back anything up.

    pissed off.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭elivsvonchiaing


    Yeah this thread is dead. Have to agree with Silent_Grape. I can see no great insights being posted here, just mainly more crap that is unfounded opinion from those never directly affected, and emotional ranting that probably just stirs up the sh1t-head opinions in the first place.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭pretty-in-pink


    this has moved well passed the original debate, and no-one will ever agree.

    there are lots of trolls appearing,and people posting then thinking,

    i move that the trollers be punished - or that the thread be locked

    just a thought- the excuses made for the perps in the limerick case were that

    1)no room for them in secondary school
    (leading to boredom,low self esteem blah blah blah)
    2)disadvantaged area

    so they pretty much got away with it because they were dirty scum,who did it for kicks. excuses-especially stupid ones like those- don't mean anything to the perpees, the law needs to change so that the perpee gets looked after and protected- before the perp. im not saying leave the perps to rot- but why are they given preference over the people they hurt? its highly unfair. we need a new system


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭Nasty_Girl


    this has moved well passed the original debate, and no-one will ever agree.

    there are lots of trolls appearing,and people posting then thinking,

    i move that the trollers be punished - or that the thread be locked

    just a thought- the excuses made for the perps in the limerick case were that

    1)no room for them in secondary school
    (leading to boredom,low self esteem blah blah blah)
    2)disadvantaged area

    so they pretty much got away with it because they were dirty scum,who did it for kicks. excuses-especially stupid ones like those- don't mean anything to the perpees, the law needs to change so that the perpee gets looked after and protected- before the perp. im not saying leave the perps to rot- but why are they given preference over the people they hurt? its highly unfair. we need a new system
    Yeah tis just like up the road from me. a fella bet another fella into a state of vegetable and got free legal aid coz he's on the dole.... despite the fact he owns a large house and drives an 04 jeep. Oh what justice there is !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭pretty-in-pink


    exactly this country is slowly dying becaus eof the bleding hearts who think scum like this "don't know any better"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 fern


    in a word yes


This discussion has been closed.
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